Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: jayybone on April 30, 2013, 10:14:08 PM
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Hello all,
I am new user of Mach3. So far I have had little problems. I am using it in conjunction with BobCad. I have had time to play with a few codes and I am slowly learning more each day.
Just yesterday as the program was running a code the Z axis unexpectedly lost power but Mach3 kept running the program like everything was working fine. I quickly stopped the program and examined the Z-axis. I could spin the screw which lead me to believe that the stepper motor had completely lost power. I cycled power and restarted mach3, after doing this I tried to spin the screw and i could not, it had power again. I started the program again. It ran okay for awhile and then it happened again. The program continued while the z-axis lost power again. I then shut the system down and swapped the X-axis motor with the Z-axis motor, thinking that the motor had a small short in the connection. After doing this i restarted all programs and mach3 now shows the Z-axis is no longer in bold but X and Y axis are still bold and working properly. The motor has power but the second i try to move it, it loses all power again. I am at a complete loss and do not know what to do for a next attempt to fix it. Please give any insight that you may have. Much appreciated!!!!
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What drives are you using?
What is you power supply rating and is it adequate for running all the drives at once?
RICH
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I will attached pictures.
I am running the power supply the a normal 110v wall outlet.
I have not had any problems like this in the past with the machine so makes me believe that it is getting adequate power.
As you will see from picture "ScreenShot" the Z axis is no longer bold like X,Y, and 4. I noticed this change after I swapped the X motor with the Z motor thinking that it was a potential wiring shortage. (the motor is working perfectly fine in X axis)
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cant quite get pictures added...
The board is from HobbyCNC (not the pro)
The Steppers are POWERMAX II
model: P21NSXC-LSS-N3-03
Is(dc): 1.75 A Bipolar Series
Po: 46W
The power supply is part number: S-145-24
input: 100-120VAC 3.2A / 200-240VAC 1.6A (50/60Hz)
output: 24V 6A
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mach3 now shows the Z-axis is no longer in bold but X and Y axis are still bold and working properly.
As you will see from picture "ScreenShot" the Z axis is no longer bold like X,Y, and 4.
This sounds pretty serious...
What do you mean the Z axis is no longer in bold? Where? A DRO? a label? a button? On the main screan? in motor tuning? What??? Where???
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Trying to upload picture
(http://)
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Finally got it!!!!
As you can see, X, Y, and 4 are all bold +0.000 and Z is not +0.000.
This is really starting to frustrate me and I am beginning to think that I am going to have to buy another break out board.
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That really looks like you just don't have the Z enabled in ports & pins. But you DO have the A enabled.... Is there a check mark beside it?
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I uninstalled and reinstalled Mach3.. Tried it again. Same results. Z has power and second I try to move it it loses power. I shut down system, switched Z plug in from board with X and same results only now in the X axis. Basically confirming it's from my break out board. That's what I am thinking. Any other ideas or suggestions?
If not, any suggestions for a new break out board? I was planning on just getting the same one from hobbycnc but would definitely take some recommendations. Only plan on using 3 axis. Current motors utilize 6 wire plug.
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Is this the board "HobbyCNC EZ Driver Board Kit"? <rant>Would be really nice if folks could post links to their kit instead of us having to do the searching and the guessing</rant>
Because if it is... in Reply #3 you said your motors were Bi-Polar Series... whilst the drivers on this board appear to be unipolar.
Has your system EVER worked?
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Yes the system has worked. I did not post website beings i specified that it was not the pro and that only leaves one other option from hobbycnc.
http://www.hobbycnc.com/products/hobbycnc-ez-driver-board-kit/
The system has worked and has been working up until the day before I created this post. This was something that just happened as I stated on the first thread.
I also noticed that the motors are bipolar and the board says unipolar but it never posed any problems in the past. The machine always ran correctly and the motors always worked precisely as they were supposed to. I would create code from bobcad, post it in mach3, cycle start, cut whatever it needed with ZERO problems.
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proof the system HAS worked (http://)
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Hi Jayybone,
I don't doubt you when you say that your system worked well in the past but there is something wrong here.
The HobbyCNC driver board expressly states that it is not suitable for use with Bipolar stepper motors yet you say that you are using it with Bipolar stepper motors. If this is truly the case then, unless you have electrically connected your motor windings into the Unipolar configuration, it is more than likely that your driver board has been damaged and this is the issue which may be causing your current problems.
Tweakie.
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I expect the issue here (which is why I wanted to confirm that this system has worked in the past) is just confusion by the OP over what constitutes a Bi-Polar motor (WRT steppers). Just for clarity (for the OP):
A Bi-Polar motor has 4 leads.
A Uni-Polar motor has 5 leads.
A 6 lead motor is a motor that is primarily designed to be wired Uni-Polar but that can be wired Bi-Polar.
Finally an 8 wire motor can be wired as either Uni-Polar or Bi-Polar.
I suspect the motors in question here are 8 wire.
From the description of the problem I would guess that the second phase of one driver on the board has gone awol.
IMHO the "bold" issue is just a screen artifact and therefore a red herring.
Ian
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Ian suspect you are correct. And yes it is an 8 wire bi stepper wired to 6 wire uni.
I am looking at purchasing a new board now. Grrr. Any suggestions?
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This was a kit yes? - why not just replace the chip?
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Well I thought about that but off the website they no longer just sell that chip. Does anybody know if you can replace it with any chip? If so where can these be bought? Thank you for the suggestion, perhaps I can do this and save a little money
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jaybone - no offence but maybe YOU need to do a little work on this. I did this process (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+driver+chips+on+hobbycnc+stepper+driver) and within 3 minutes I'd found a full BOM and suppliers and prices.
WADR we're here to help - not to do it all for you.
Ian
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Ian,
I do not see one part of my post that is asking for YOU or ANYONE else to do it for me. I simply asked for suggestions in the slightest possibility that someone has experienced this and could give their two cents with their experiences and what they may have learned throughout the process. I would rather ask for suggestions AND do my own research to see if others have other suggestions than what I have found. I set up my machine alone and had one problem turning to this forum for ADVICE AND SUGGESTIONS. If I had someone do it for me, I wouldn't be posting to this thread.
Thanks for your concern, Ian.
:)
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Does anybody know if you can replace it with any chip?
The easiest and most full proof way would be to replace the chip with the same or equivilant.
But you should check out the other chip related components.
So search the internet, find the chip and vendor of your choice and then decide if you want to buy and try the replacement.
I set up my machine alone and had one problem turning to this forum for ADVICE AND SUGGESTIONS. If I had someone do it for me, I wouldn't be posting to this thread.
I would suggest that the drive manual be read and advise you to question for understanding before assembly of the controller.
RICH
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Rich,
I will be replacing later this week hopefully (pending shipping). Thanks Rich!
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Let us know how it works out.
RICH
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As noted in previous posts, the format of the DRO is not associated with your problem. But if this annoys you (as it would me) then you can correct it. Bring up your screen.set in Screen4 and increase the height of the Z-Position DRO by one or two pixels. It should then revert to bold.
HTH,
Al
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well I guess from your reply to me you did take a tad offence at what I said which is a shame.
Just go back through your thread and ask yourself who's been with you on this consistently. Who took the time to google your kit description in post#3 to get the datasheet of your driver. who cleared up the issue of bi-polar vs uni-polar motor confusion. Who suggested your bold DRO concerns were not the issue. Who suggested the route of repair to save you money and who gave you a start on finding your chip. Take all MY posts out of your thread and see what you'd have left.
If I've wound you up simply by suggesting you post links to your kit and then do a little googling so be it.
Ian
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I have a similar problem
I have replaced the motor still z does not lock.
Mach3 shows movement and smoothstepper diag shows movement.
When I change the position of z in mach3, then regen the code changes but no z movement.
I believe my problem is the controller or the smoothstepper driver Ver 17efb, 37, 2.08.36.
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jaybone - no offence but maybe YOU need to do a little work on this.
WADR we're here to help - not to do it all for you.
No offence taken.
Its just the fact that YOU don't need to assume what others are doing while asking questions and asking for suggestions. Its really a shame that you would voice your on own conclusions when its based off of a total guess. I fully understand that just reading a thread isn't going to fix the problem I have with my CNC router. We are all adults here, I think everyone has a grasp of how to use google this day and age.
I don't want to get in a pissing match, just want to get back up and running again. I do fully appreciate all of your assistance throughout.
So moving on to the machine. I took a closer look at my board and to my surprise (and i apologize for the complete OVERLOOK) but I do have the HobbyCNC Pro (http://www.hobbycnc.com/products/hobbycnc-pro-chopper-driver-board-kits/) so I was able to buy a replacement driver right from the website! I have replaced old driver from board with the new one. I have not had a chance to give a full test yet and will be out of town the next few days. I will hopefully test over long holiday weekend and update if problem is gone or still exists.
Thanks!
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Update:
so this weekend I had time to finally test machine. Well, Z-axis now WORKED!
but now the bad news...
now it is the Y-axis not working. Acting the exact same way the Z-axis did. I have bought 2 more driver chips (1 replace, 1 back up). So i will replace the Y and cross my fingers that all axis will work appropriately now.
I have looked into issues with HobbyCNC driver chips and them failing. I have read that they can fail by using the stop button on mach 3? Has anyone heard of this problem? I have the exact Vref voltage that is supposed to be running to the motors (.14*1.75A=.245) and i am reading 5.1V on the board for the regulator circuit (5.0v-5.2v). Just scratching my head as to why these driver chips are acting this way. I am running 24vdc input (42vdc max-12vdc min input voltage). Tested all connections to motors with positive connection to all.
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I have read that they can fail by using the stop button on mach 3? Has anyone heard of this problem?
No.
Suggest you ask Hobby CNC directly for a definitive answer and if they confirm please post their repsonse about their problem with their board as it's not a Mach problem.
RICH
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Suggest you ask Hobby CNC directly for a definitive answer and if they confirm please post their repsonse about their problem with their board as it's not a Mach problem.
I have and hopefully I will be getting some sort of reply on the matter. If anybody was wondering where this came from here is the thread and the quoted text:
"Recently a CNC builder friend mentioned that I should never Stop the machine with the Stop button in Mach3 without first using the feed hold or I risk blowing chips ??
After some thought, both boards failed after Stopping with the Stop button in Mach to avoid a broken cutter.
Question , are there any guru's out there that can throw some light on this."
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/hobbycnc_products/128669-smoked_yaxis_chip_hobbycnc_pro_board.html
Again, I will post response if there are any truths to this for other HobbyCNC/Mach3 users.
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I'll waite for HobbyCNC's answer as there are conditions which can blow a drive and they should modify their drives
to address those issues or at the very least make it known to the users of their drives on how to protect the drive.
Hopefully HobbyCNC will provide support to you on this matter.
RICH
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No definitive answer on the driver issue from hobbycnc yet.
So I have replaced the Y axis driver and tested the machine today. The Y axis is now getting power but it is not moving. I unplugged and swapped Z and Y. Still would not work on that drive (Y worked while Z did not). I know the motor is good (works when swapped). The board has a brand new drive in it. It holds power when I try to move it which leads me to think that it is not a board issue but a program issue.
I switched the dir and step pin numbers and still no luck. I am running out of ideas of what to try to get the Y axis to respond to mach3. Again, motor is on, can't spin screw (has power) try to jog and no response on machine. I unplugged everything and reseated parallel port and all motor wiring, no luck. Is there anything within mach3 that will basically ignore a drive? All have green check in ports and pins.
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I don't know if this has been mentioned before but you may want to try checking Sherline 1/2 Pulse mode (Config / Ports & Pins) then restarting Mach3 and see if this makes any difference.
Tweakie.
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I don't know if this has been mentioned before but you may want to try checking Sherline 1/2 Pulse mode (Config / Ports & Pins) then restarting Mach3 and see if this makes any difference.
Tweakie,
No luck on checking the Sherline 1/2 pulse mode.
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I am not getting any movement in the Y axis still. After looking over the wiring and double checking the connections, I am getting full connection everywhere. I am not getting any movement though? The motor stays locked but doesnt move. I try and jog, no movement, and the motor remains powered. It shows on mach3 that it is moving but the motor sits not moving at all. It worked flawlessly in past and I have not changed anything so the Dir and step configuration is the same. I have been down for quite some time trying to figure out this one axis and I am running out of ideas to try. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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I have an older HobbyCNc board that I have been using for a number of years, and I believe that most of the problems associated with them by other users over the years have been due to bad solder joints. Have you reflowed all solder joints for the Y axis as often recommended on the HobbyCNC group? The other failure issue often encountered is connecting and disconnecting stepper wiring WITHOUT making sure the power to the board is fully discharged. These may not be your problem, but from your thread, they are a high possibility.
John Champlain