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Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: malgazz on April 14, 2013, 08:42:42 AM

Title: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 14, 2013, 08:42:42 AM
Hi
Newbie desperately needing assistance from the leaned members of the forum please!

Machine specs:                    Home built 3 axis gantry driven router (1200 x 1200 x 100 mm work area).
                                        TB6560AHQ - 4 axis blue driver board - Mach3 software
                                        X & Y rack and pinion (mod 1.5 rack with 18 tooth spur gear driven from belt and pulleys 3:1 ratio)
                                        (motor 20 tooth,spur gear 60 tooth)
                                        4th axis slaved to X to drive gantry.
                                        Z axis is a directly driven 1/2"-10 5 start acme rod.
                                        SBC4 xml file over written into the Mach3 folder
                                        Limit switches are mechanical micro switches wired NC in series; each axis being wired to its own pin of the driver boards DB9 socket.

                          {Some manual adjustment to the xml file have been made while configuring Mach3 whilst setting up Input and Homing/Soft limit settings}

With the machine set with the SB4 xml file, with the A slaved to X, both the motors drive in the same direction without changing the config>ports & pins>motor output - dir active low setting of either motor.
All axis drive in the correct direction using either keyboard or jog buttons on the pop out mpg controller of Mach3.
However as soon as one checks and sets the pins for the config>ports & pins>input signals (as per driver-board manual) and sets up the config>home/soft limits as per Mach3 manual and tutorial videos; the direction in which the axis travel is reversed/opposite to what they did before setting up the home/limit switch settings. To get them driving in the correct direction the config>motor output>dir active low had to be checked for X to drive correctly together with the slaved motor. The setting was also checked for the Y and Z axis to also get them traveling correctly again.

When referencing the X axis; the master X axis motor drives in the positive direction, whilst the slaved A axis motor drives in the negative direction. A Mach3 stop is required to prevent the 2 sides of the axis from tearing themselves apart (no e-stop wired up). Once the e-stop has been triggered only the Ref A led turns to green.
I also notice that when trying to reference the master X motor drives in the positive direction and not towards the home side of the table.

From the driver board manual, the pins for the config>ports & pins>input signals can only be set:  X++   pin 10;     X--  pin 10;     Xhome  pin 10
                                                                                                                                             Y's to pin 11
                                                                                                                                             Z's to pin12

Does this effectively mean that the X-- and Xhome cannot be set to limit and a home switch when referencing (similarly for the Y and Z axis). In other words there are limitations to this board; as Mach3 states one can set for example: X++ to pin 10;   X-- & Xhome to pin 11

I also notice in the driver board manual: that the page depicting the settings for config>ports & pins>input signals the pin setting for the 4th axis is also showing pin 12. { should not the 4th axis be set to the same pin as the axis it is slaved to}

Also noticed in the manual and settings of the SBC4 xml file that the motor output> enable setting for all the axis is pin 14........ is this not an output pin for Mach3?

It seems I am confused as heck and in dire need of help in putting me on track.
Regards
Gary  ??? :o
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Chaoticone on April 15, 2013, 10:29:06 PM
I have sent you a PM.

Brett
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 11:52:40 AM
Hi
Having 2HDD's in the router's PC, I started fresh on the other HDD!(drives are booted separately from the BIOS)
The SBC4 xml file is supplied with the driverboard for basic configuration to get the motors moving .........supposedly!
I have done screen shots as a way of explanation/clarification of settings using the SBC4 file over writing the existing, my own motor tuning and my manual fiddling with the input, home limits and slaving settings. The only other change made by myself was the dir low active of Z to get it to travel in correct direction.
Other than the above I have not touched a thing......promise!

For now the following:
1. motors run fairly decently although a little slow and a slight resonance. Resolution....... will adjust motor tuning.
2. the mtrs drive the axis in the correct directions. e.g: press right arrow (keyboard) or X+ ( pop-out screen MPG) the axis moves in the positive direction away from home.
    the tuning was done individually and then A slaved to X ........ no other setting done to get them to run together in same and correct direction.
3. initially the Z axis went in the wrong direction i.e. press PgDn/Z- the axis traveled up toward home (negative dir.). Resolved ........ I changed the dir active low setting int motor          
    outputs. Will this have any bearing with home/soft limit settings, i.e. soft Max and soft Min?[/color]
4. When triggering either of the limit switches all 3 LED's light up for that particular axis. I accept this as the board states X++ X-- Xhome as pin 10 similary for Y and Z pins 11& 12. Pin                
    13 reserved for and E-stop switch. Is there a way around this so one can still use the limit switch as a home switch when referencing the axes?

Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 11:54:40 AM
The balance of screen shots
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 12:15:01 PM
next
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Chaoticone on April 16, 2013, 12:15:47 PM
Post your xml file.  It looks like it is the standard Mach3Mill.xml  It can be found in your C:/Mach3 folder.  You will have to rename it to post it as the forum can not handle 2 files with the same name.

Brett
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 12:17:59 PM
had to change file names to get them posted
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 12:48:58 PM
sent xml to your work mail address
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 12:59:42 PM
The xml file is as the machine is with the above screen shots.
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Chaoticone on April 16, 2013, 01:12:13 PM
Gary, how does it do if you go to config./general config. and change the angular properties for the a axis to linear?  Its on the left top.

Brett
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on April 16, 2013, 01:21:12 PM
You are using a pirate licence.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 01:31:31 PM
Hi Bret
I've changed it to be linear.
New there was something I'd forget.
It works just the same - no change
Gary
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Chaoticone on April 16, 2013, 01:34:54 PM
The first thing you will want to do is get a legit copy and we will proceed from there.

Brett
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 01:38:16 PM
Hi Bret
The axis has been changed to linear (unchecked)
Machine works the same as before-no change
Gary
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on April 16, 2013, 01:41:05 PM
I will say it again in case you missed my previous post ;)

You are using a pirate licence.

Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 01:41:20 PM
Hi Hood
This is a copy I bought from the supplier of the driverboard.
He is selling packages....... driverboard, motors, power supply and a copy of Mach3.
Gary
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on April 16, 2013, 01:42:52 PM
And that copy is a pirate so if you bought in good faith I suggest you take it up with your supplier and seek a refund, you can then purchase a legitimate licence.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 01:45:19 PM
I do not run pirate copies of software by principle, therefore if this is so. I will rectify immediately and purchase my own licence.
Can I supply you details of the supplier????
Gary
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Chaoticone on April 16, 2013, 01:47:53 PM
Yes Gary, please provide information about the supplier.

Brett
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 02:02:13 PM
Hi Bret and Hood
I have just done a purchase of my own licence.
I suspect it will take around 24hrs to get licence file.

The supplier is as follows:
UniRobotics
512 GovnMbeki Ave
North End
Port Elizabeth
South Africa
Tel:+27414575808
muhammedmoh@gmail.com
http://unirobotics.co.za/

Regards
Gary
PS nail the bugger
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Chaoticone on April 16, 2013, 02:15:40 PM
Thanks Gary, Go tot he following link and download it to your PC. Uninstall the mach you have now delete the mach3 folder on your c drive.  Run the installer you just downloaded and when prompted to enter a custom profile do so and name it GarysRouter cloning the mach3mill profile.  Use the screen shots in your earlier post to set up and configure your machine again.

ftp://anonymous:guest@machsupport.com/Mach/Mach3Version3.043.057.exe (ftp://anonymous:guest@machsupport.com/Mach/Mach3Version3.043.057.exe)

Brett
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 16, 2013, 03:01:08 PM
A bit of friendly advice for all those following the Mach 3 Support Forum.
Ensure that have your own personal licensed copy of the software.
The hard work and hours spent developing this software deserves the bucks spent.
The amount of help and free support one gets is amazing.
I got "burnt" and its not a nice feeling!
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: alenz on April 17, 2013, 12:25:32 AM
I see that the software seller states that "We also include the Merchant Copy of the famous CAD software MACH3” and then again “MC Mach3 software" is included.
I wonder how he would respond to the question: What exactly is MC Mach3?
Is that now a recognized category for pirated software?
Buyer beware.
Al
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 17, 2013, 04:03:37 AM
OK I'm back to where I was yesterday, but Legally!
I noticed I wasn't 100% correct in the previous posts.
I have changed the dir active low setting for the Z axis. When pressing PgDn the axis goes down, using the the pop-out MPG to jog, the Z- take the axis down.
This effectively changes the direction travelled opposite to the X&Y axes. I would prefer to keep it this way as I think I will use the keyboard more than the pop-out to jog.
Question: 1. How will this affect normal operation when running G-code for a drawing? (Will it make the axis travel in the wrong direction when cutting)
              2. Does this affect the soft max and soft min settings? (manual and videos say to be careful and make the soft max a negative figure and the soft min a
                  positive figure....... one wants the axis to move up away from the table when homing or going to zero)
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on April 17, 2013, 06:01:33 AM
Ok sounds like your Z is correct, going up is a positive move and PgUp is normal for that, opposite for PgDn and the DRO moves negative. Same for the pop out, it is going the right way for Z by the sounds of it.

Ok for Homing the Z you move positive, this will, when it hits the switch and backs off set the Z machine coords to Zero (make sure you dont have a value in Home Off box) Then for Z Soft Limits you set 0 as Z Max. Z Min is set to the axis travel but as a negative number, so if you have a 6inch travel then Z Min will be -6.

Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 17, 2013, 06:34:58 AM
Morning Hood
I have set the Z as suggested in your previous post.
I have checked the Home Neg Box for Y as when I pressed ref all home it was homing on the positive side of the table.
Referencing has not completed.
1. The Z moves 1st correct direction (up), hits limit and backs off.
2. Y moves 2nd correct dir ( toward minus) hits limit, does not back off. When I reset it automatically triggers a stop saying limit triggered. Cannot not get it to   move off limit unless I disable (un-check input) Y. Then move off Y limit recheck the input. The same happens all over again if I do a ref all home again.
3. I tried a 3rd time and got Z and Y to reference, but the X moved interdependently of it's slaved motor.
4. After the 1st ref all home I did notice that the A axis was showing A green outline around it's DRO button.
How do I get the 2 motors of the x axis to work together - remember I did not have to change either of their dir active low setting to get them to travel in same direction.
Am I correct in assuming that one needs to reference the axes in order to set the table parameters in accordance with the home/soft limits.
and does one need to zero the axis first......jog them to zeo position then zero them?
Gary
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on April 17, 2013, 06:56:34 AM
Ok  sounds like you either have bouncing switshes or a bit of noise. Go to Config menu then General Config and enter a Debounce Interval setting. Try 200 and see if that helps, if it does then  work down to the min reliable amount.

Regarding the Slaved axis, also on General Config you will see an option to Home Slave with Master, see if that helps.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 17, 2013, 07:34:22 AM
my last sentence above should read: "does one need to zero the axes.... jog them to zero, zero each of them and then refernce the axes?"
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on April 17, 2013, 08:08:25 AM
No you can reference any where you want and the machine will move to the switches and set machine coords. If you then jog to where you want the work zero to be then you can zero the DROs, that will be the work offset (usually 54 unless you have called another) set up.
Next day when you switch the machine on you press RefAll, machine will reference and then you will see how far you are away from your previously set work offset and if you tell it to go to zero it will go to that offset zero.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: malgazz on April 17, 2013, 09:03:43 AM
Hood
The setting in general config did the trick.
Thanks a mil, seem to be on right track
Gary
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on April 17, 2013, 09:14:51 AM
No problem :)
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 04, 2014, 01:17:15 PM
I"m really new to cnc, my background has been in photography I have a mini cnc router engraver that I would like to use for art projects, I cant seem to get a grasp on how to home the machine, there are no yellow lights when I hit the home switches, when i reference all the z axis is the only one that turns green the y moves to the bottom of the table, but doesn' t back off, the x axis does not move at all towards home.  I assume that because i cant do this simple thing, it makes it hard for anything else to go smoothely.  Also, when positioning a piece on the table and zeroing everything out why is it not possible to start from that point. could really use a little help!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 04, 2014, 01:24:17 PM
If you do not see the Home LEDs light when you hit the switches then it would seem you do not have the switches set up properluy in Ports and Pins.

You can just zero and run the code but your code may contain commands which send it to home and that may cause you problems.

Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 04, 2014, 02:34:58 PM
Ive followed the instructions , i've checked and rechecked to c if they were right. should i go back and start over.  When i bought the machine over the internet there wasn;t very much info they did send a set up sheet and cd with mach3 attached when i got it set up everything was fine, i had all green lights on the x,y and z axis.  i purchased a lic copy and put it in the file and now i can only home the z axis. Ive watched the tutorials but again cant get the yellow home lights to come on.  Are the lights only on green when the axis is homed.
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 04, 2014, 04:04:57 PM
On the diagnostics page you should see the LEDs light when you press them, so press the Home switch for X and the M1 Home should light, press Y home and M2 Home should light.

The LEDs at the side of the DROs will be red when not homed and green when homed.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 04, 2014, 04:30:05 PM
Thanks, I've hit the home switch and the m1 home switch nothing lights up.,  When the controller is turned off the yellow lights are there, as soon as i turn on the controller they are gone.
I was pretty sure that a green light is a good light its just on my z axis
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 04, 2014, 05:36:49 PM
Attach your xml and I will take a look, also if you have a link to the instructions you got that would help.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 04, 2014, 05:56:37 PM
 sorry hood i dont know
my xml or what it is  ithink i attached the ins sheet but not sure where is the attachment button
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 04, 2014, 06:36:30 PM
 I also found the xml file is it located in the mach 3 folder
 
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 05, 2014, 02:46:52 AM
On the full reply page there is an additional options button, you use that to attach files.
It is best to zip them as the forum will only accept a file name to be attached once and the standard xml files will already have been attached. If you can not zip the files you will need to change the name to something unique, maybe lavalais.xml for example.

Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 11, 2014, 09:40:06 PM
Hi Hood.  I'm sorry but everything became an issue so I started over reinstalled my software and have been able to successfully copy and zip my xml file along with the instructions sheet, Hope you will be able to help me home my machine there still are no lights when i try and home my machine
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 12, 2014, 03:42:27 AM
Dont think that is your xml, seems to be the exe.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 12, 2014, 04:29:15 PM
Hi Hood, I Think i have the right document this time
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 14, 2014, 04:30:38 PM
You do not have any of the Home switches enabled in Ports and Pins and you dont have any port and pin assigned for them either.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 15, 2014, 12:24:40 AM
Hi Hood, You were right so I enabled those switches with the correct ports and pins but still the limit lights in the diagnostic mode does not light up when pushed. I've enclosed a current xml file
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 15, 2014, 03:09:45 AM
Try using the automated setup of Inputs. Click the button in Ports and Pins. Inputs. Choose X Home and then trigger  the actual X Home switch and Mach should see it and set the correct pin, continue for the other home switches.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: CliffL on December 15, 2014, 08:41:33 AM
Has anyone installed Mach 3 with bobcad v26 and got them to work together?  Machine won't go home properly. Sorry I know enough about computers to get in trouble, and now I'm in trouble
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 16, 2014, 01:41:20 AM
Hood, I followed your directions i opened ports and pins, selected inputs  select the Home switch,hit auto set after i hit auto set it prompt me with Searching for Signal activation, and nothing happens, the next box says press switch or cancel.  theres no way to do anything without ok-ing when i check the switches on the diagnostic page they still don't light. what am I doing wrong.
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 16, 2014, 04:51:55 AM
CliffL

Yes have used V26 and Mach no problems.

lavalais

Are you pressing your physical switch when asked?
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: CliffL on December 16, 2014, 08:36:13 AM
I have configured mach 3 . In the diagnostics everything works as should. When I reference home z goes up Y comes to the limit X does not move at all. When the Y limit is met everything stops.
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 16, 2014, 01:46:28 PM
Hood:  I must be missing something, I'm not sure of what it is but I cant trigger the switch, and its probably because i don't know what to press, I've tried using the keyboard it seems to be the only logical place for me to try pressing the switch, when i do i don't get a prompt or anything.  My procedure is go to ports and pins hit the automated switch select the x home switch hit the auto select, i'm prompted that its searching, and asked to press the switch so i press the key board switch that corresponds with the limit i'm trying to set but nothing else happens. when i check the switches don't light.   I think i'm missing something in this process.  do you trigger the switch with the keyboard or is there something else i'm suppose to use.
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 16, 2014, 04:16:05 PM
Do you have physical Home switches on the machine. What I mean is actual switches attached on the machine that get triggered when the axis travels towards them and a ramp or similar contacts them.

Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 16, 2014, 05:12:40 PM
CliffL
I will assume that you are also using the Y Home switch as a Limit switch and it sounds like you have a bouncing switch.
What would seem to be happening is the as Mach contacts the Y switch it then starts to back off but it sees the switch momentarily close and sets Home, the switch then opens and Mach then sees it as a Limit switch.
Try setting the debounce Interval (on General config page) to 2000 and see if that helps.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: CliffL on December 16, 2014, 05:23:46 PM
Hood, that worked great. Now I have set home at 4X 4Y -2Z. They do not go to the distance I have set.
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 16, 2014, 05:34:46 PM
The Home Off value is not for setting the distance, what it is for is to tell Mach how far away your home switch is from the extent of travel.
As an example you may have separate home and limit switches. The limits will be at the extent of the axes but the home switches may be in a bit from the end. The Home off value is then used to tell Mach how far the Home switches are away from the extent.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: CliffL on December 16, 2014, 05:58:57 PM
How would I set mach up to end the machine at 0-X 0-Y  0-Z.   Which technically is 6" X  4" Y and -1 for Z  After the machine touches all the limits and backs away for 0
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 16, 2014, 07:04:56 PM
Two things to consider with that question.
First is machine zero and work offset zero can be different, so it will depend on which you are talking about.

Second thing is, you should still be able to command a move to machine coords zero and not trip the limit switches. The reason for that is the zero position is set when the switches close after the homing routine reverses the axis. So unless your switches are prone to triggering by vibration then you should not trigger them with a move to machine zero.

Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 16, 2014, 07:08:34 PM
No I don't have any physical switches attached to the table.  Also can you tell me why the object no longer lines up in the table display whats responsible besides the g code.
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: CliffL on December 16, 2014, 10:04:04 PM
My limits are not prone to vibration. When I reference all  the machine comes to a stop at all limits and backs away from each about a half inch or just enough to open the switch. Which is what they are supposed to do - After they home the machine and then reset they become limit switch's. What I need to figure out is how do set that distance the machine backs off to - to be set where 0X 0Y 0Z is. I have a fence fastened to the machine so I can put a block of material in it - thus is is set at 0 - which technically is about 6" X - 4" Y these measurements are from the point where the machine touch's the limits to reference and then should go to what I call home.
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: CliffL on December 16, 2014, 10:05:15 PM
I meant to say close the switch   
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 17, 2014, 03:45:00 AM
lavalais

If you do not have physical home switches then you will not see the Home switch LED on the diagnostics page.
The only way you can home without switches is to move to a known location and press the RefAll button, that will set the machine coords at that point.

CliffL

By homing you set the machine coords, they will zero if you have Auto Zero chosen and have Zero for your Home Off.
Your work coords may be different but if you want them to be the same then you simply home the machine then you can zero the X Y and Z work offsets by pressing the zero button at the side of each DRO. Your work and machine coords will now all be zero.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: CliffL on December 17, 2014, 10:26:23 AM
Hood, you are a great help. Thank you. Now I have a little more work to do to figure out how to get Bobcad V26 to generate the proper g-code. You have saved me day's worth of trial and error.
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: CliffL on December 17, 2014, 11:17:39 AM
Hood I have pulled up a file to cut out a sink template. Started the cycle and it does not run correct. It's like Mach 3 is not reading the g-codes correct.
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: Hood on December 17, 2014, 02:27:05 PM
attach your xml and the code and if possible a screenshot of what it is meant to look like.
Hood
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: lavalais on December 19, 2014, 02:20:17 PM
Hood, Ok i dont have physical switches, can i home the machine other than bringing it to the workobject  and zeroing everything out.  I tried ref home but the only axis that moved was the z and it went to the stop and staye i had to press the stop button it does not move onto the next axis.    Also is there a way for me to zero the work offsets along with zeroing the machine at the same place  I pretty much do very small work in the area of 30-40mm mostly for artistic purposes.  I'm managing but feel theres a lot yet to know for controll of the machine.
Title: Re: Home/Limits
Post by: CliffL on December 19, 2014, 03:15:14 PM
Hood, I figured it out thank you. I can now produce what I need as soon as I find the correct post processor for my machine. I have what I need I just need to figure which processor I need to install to generate the correct g-code.
Thank you everyone here has been a very big help and when I get into trouble it's nice to have someplace to go.