Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: jevs on February 05, 2013, 10:12:23 PM
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I got the new computer built, loaded the latest Mach3, put in my saved XML, created the proper Icon, loaded in my plugins for pokeys and machmotion. I basically tried to put everything back like it was in the old computer.
When I run the drivers test I get "Pulsing too fast". Kernel speed is 25k.
The computer was built to be dedicated to the mill. I have not actually hooked the computer to my machine yet.
Intel i3 3225
Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H MATX Motherboard
Sandisk Extreme 120 Gig SSD drive
Kingston HyperX Red 4GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) CL 9 Memory Module
LG 24x Super Multi Internal SATA DVDRW DL Drive
Parallel port PCI card (has one port on board and one that ribbon cables off) - The same card from old computer
PCI wireless network card - The same card from old computer
Windows 7 32-Bit
I did try turning off all services and startups in the msconfig, then rebooted, and that did not change anything.
I am looking for ideas to try next. Sometimes during the test it will say system stable for a bit, then go back to pulsing too fast.
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The PCI wireless network card may cause you trouble in the long run.
Set your Kernal speed to no more than you need based on your axis tuning.
Look for a clean test as far as noise and other operations causing blips.
Just a thought, (;-) TP
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Can it be causing me problems now? It did not cause problems in the old computer. It's kind of hard to not have network access and get a computer up and running these days....
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IS the OLD pc the one you always had problems with ? (;-) So how did you know the card did not cause problems ??
ANYTHING that can interupt mach3 such as a network card COULD cause a problem at times. SOme PCs don't have a problem Some do, Why push your luck? This is a dedicated CNC PC for a machine correct?
(;-)TP
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The problem with the old computer ended up being a bad memory stick (confirmed and narrowed down to which stick with memtest). I could not even reload windows xp until the memory stick was removed, I kept getting page faults, BSOD's etc. Once I removed the mem stick then it loaded up fine again and that computer is working good and for sale. It worked fine with Mach 3 prior to that crash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUccWa_KN5c1AP5Bnqz6yrkg&v=DsizLpAXTns&feature=player_detailpage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=W-0q5uM8jbU&list=UUccWa_KN5c1AP5Bnqz6yrkg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Sjc9--rOPrs&list=UUccWa_KN5c1AP5Bnqz6yrkg
It did not have any issues with the driver tests or anything either. I could not say for sure that the card would not cause something wierd long term as I never cut any big projects, only cut air on a couple simple routines.
Anyway, back to the new computer. I went ahead and disabled that card in the device manager and rebooted. Getting the same issue.
Is it possible the computer I built is too fast and Mach3 does not like it?
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Tried a bunch more stuff and no luck so far. I am going to browse that vista forum. It seems some of that may apply to Win7 also.
I do notice something. When I run the drivertest, the pulses count just climbs up for a second or two then goes back to 0 and displays pulsing too fast. It is like it starts to run and then just stops.
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I messed with this for about 5 hours again tonight with it connected to the machine. It just won't communicate. It is like the pulse stream or communication works for a second then dies. It appears to do the same thing if you just run Mach3 also. I tried all kind of different things in the bios, disabling all unnecessary devices in the hardware settings. I tried setting the printer ports to support legacy PnP, and all the different options for use of interrupts. I tried using msconfig and shutting everything off and rebooted. So far nothing stops this from happening that I can figure out.
I tried the special driver in Mach3 and that did nothing, so I set it back. I tried reloading the mach3 driver. No luck. This is a huge dump of valuable time :(
See video here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS4KVnOhBw4&feature=youtu.be
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I pulled the wireless network card and got the same results. I spent a bunch more time tonight trying various things and finally gave up. I don't think there was anything else to try. Mach support helped me and they had no further ideas either. They said it was the worst drivertest they ever saw LOL.
I replaced the 32 bit Win7 with 64 Bit Win7 and have everything re-loaded and ready for a smoothstepper. I am just waiting for a paypal invoice for a smoothstepper. Hope this works....
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I didn't think Mach was even supposed to run on Win7?
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Yes. It is supposed to work on 32 bit Win 7 with parallel ports. It will work on 64 bit, but not with parallel ports (have to use external motion controller).
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A working PC would have been cheaper than the SS.
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If memory serves, a normal driver test displays "Pulsing too fast" for 6 seconds or so before it takes over?? You're not getting impatient and exiting the test before it runs are you? I know, dumb suggestion but I thought something was wrong when I saw the message the 1st few times I ran it and I exited too early.
Just a suggestion.... :)
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No, it takes over, pulses up a bit and then just stops. Pulsing too fast is not really the issue even though that is what is left on the display. Sometimes it will blip up for a sec and turn green before it dies. It won't pulse a stream at all. It just spits out a little and then dies. I am not messing with the Mach driver anymore, I already put 64 bit Win 7 on and I am putting in a smoothstepper (Ethernet).
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A working PC would have been cheaper than the SS.
I don't want to mess with old terd computers and XP. I choose to have a modern computer. The aggravating thing is, I built one that should have worked with Mach. I actually could have saved money by not having to make it take an outdated PCI card (spent more on the motherboard). This computer runs cooler, is lighter, smaller, no platter HD to fail, draws less current, faster, etc etc. Much better than any computer you could get for the price of a smoothstepper. It should feed a smoothstepper quite nicely. I also sold my old computer for $175 shipped :) . With the smoothstepper I should have a more reliable pulse stream as well. It gives more benefits than just working like a parallel port.
Mach will have to evolve sooner or later, more and more people want to use newer computers. Some people aren't interested in dumpster diving for an old computer when you can by a pretty fast new one for $300 and a good portion of the used ones are starting to be 64 bit Win7 machines. Remember...Win7 is even old now :) XP is ancient.
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It is alive again! Thanks to an Ethernet Smoothstepper!
No more OS limitations, mach driver issues, or parallel port card! I am using 64 Bit Win7.
I mounted the smoothstepper in the computer case and used some computer case mount parallel ports. This way I did not have to do any changes to the rest of my machine and the breakout board hooks up the same as before. The board is also powered off the computers power supply (500W so plenty to spare since I am using CPU/MB video).
My whole machine is designed to power up off one button press on the front panel. This button hooks to the power pins on the computers motherboard. Once the computer powers up, the rest of the system is activated by the computers power supply using relays etc. Works great. I also have a USB port on the front panel, HDD indicator LED, and power indicator LED. So, you can load your programs with a thumb drive etc. and there is no reason to get inside the cabinet or mess with the computer seperatly to run the machine.
Now I just have go through and double check all the settings and stuff and I am back to where I left off a year and half ago when the computer crapped out and I lost interest. I have a good feeling I will cut something soon!
Thanks to those that offered up suggestions even though the mach driver just would not work with my setup. The smoothstepper is the way to go (from what I see so far).
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I'm with jevs on this, the lpt driver seems flaky and parallel port is old tech. I retrofitted a commercial machine that had Delta 10 controller rated at 6MHZ and a travel speed of 350ipm. When I setup using a 3GHZ machine I figured that it would handle the load with now problem. I was wrong, the Delta system uses a pulsing engine similar to the smoothstepper taking simpler commands from the computer and generating it own pulse train. This means its not affected by other computer loads and would run plenty fast on a slower machine. How many time have you sent something to a printer then moved on to other projects on the computer and then realize the printer is pausing every time you open another page on the computer robbing from the printer port. Not good for a CNC machine running at high speed with high degree of precision. I am running right now on the parallel port but plan to install the smooth stepper in the near future, I don't like some of what I have seen with the port driver my self.
For anyones info you must run the driver test with Mach running and configured as you plan to run it. You all so have to run the driver two times to get a reading from it.
Run it once and wait till its has completely taken over and reading pulsing to fast close it and launch it again you should get a reading then.
Steve
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Run it once and wait till its has completely taken over and reading pulsing to fast close it and launch it again you should get a reading then.
Steve
That would suggest the driver was not installed. Running the drivertest will install the driver but you will not get anything meaningful from that run.
Hood
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Driver is installed it runs the machine, just there is something not quite right in the software. I have made judgment calls from this test and realized the first run wasn't correct so I make it a practice to run a second time before making any decisions.
Steve
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If you get pulsing too fast and have to always run the driver test a second time to get a reading then that is indicative of issues with your computer, I would suggest you try some of the optimisation steps detailed on the downloads page.
Hood
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Hood I understand this and thought it was my computer so I replaced it 3 times before I realized they all did the same thing. The driver is obviously working it runs the machine just fine and very accurately but I don't get a driver test till I launch it a second time.
Steve
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All I can say is that is not normal so something is not right with your setup. Could be some software you have installed on all computers or could be the three computers are all similar makes?
The driver test should run first time every time and you should not get a difference in its results from first to second test.
Hood
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My point is that the driver test is not acurate enough to make decissions with just for reference. If it drives the machine its working.
What is pulsing to fast supposed to mean? Is the computer to fast for the machine? That would be hard to believe since smoothstepper puts out 4MHZ and this driver only puts out at best 100khz.
Steve
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My "Pulsing too Fast" was not really a pulsing too fast, that is just where it was when it would crash. It would just work for a couple seconds then stop and this usually left it displaying "pusing too fast", when in fact it was not pulsing at all anymore and died. Even if you fired up Mach3, it woud power up the machine for a second or two then go off, just like the drivertest was doing. I tried everything to make it work and it just did not work. I had no choice but to get a smoothstepper
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Machinehead57
The driver test as you say is not a sure thing however I have yet to see a computer that has a perfect flat line not running Mach nicely.
The grey area is where you have some disturbances on the line, it may or may not run nicely. If the line is just a mess then it is almost certain it wont work nice.
Having the driver test give you pulsing too fast errors then its safe to say you are going to have problems even if you do manage to get some sort of motion.
Regarding what the pulsing too fast means, you would really need to ask Art but my guess would be that it is unstable and thus the driver test sees a pulse there but has no idea what it actually is.
It will definitely run nowhere near the SS, Art has had it running faster than 100KHz if I recall but it was not stable enough for release.
The parallel port driver has its place, if you have a stepper based system and you get a nice clean line in the driver test then you will likely see no benefits from the Smoothstepper, if however you run servos with relatively high count encoders then I would say the SmoothStepper or one of the other external devices is a must.
Hood
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Hood I have no problem with Mach I run 10 and 15 amp servos with 1000ppr encoders. I can leave a cut on any axis and come back to it with no real lap line on any of the axis so I know the machine and software is working good.
But I still have to launch the driver test 2 times to get a reading on it. When I do get a reading I keep a clean line up to the 100khz level. But with 4 axis it it slows everything down because there just isn't enough bandwidth in my computer and the parallel port to run it at that speed. It just doesn't display anything the first time up. At this time it really doesn't matter I'm just warning others that the driver test isn't good enough to make major decisions on to get other info to back it up.
Steve
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If you get pulsing too fast and have to always run the driver test a second time to get a reading then that is indicative of issues with your computer, I would suggest you try some of the optimisation steps detailed on the downloads page.
Hood
dear Hood, I cannot locate this Win 7 optimisation/optimization in the download area of (Newfangled Solutions) Machsupport .. can I have the link please? maybe others have same problem!
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this is it, its for xp but should be relevant to other OS's
ftp://machsupport.com/Extra%20Information/XP%20Optimization%20Guide.txt (ftp://machsupport.com/Extra%20Information/XP%20Optimization%20Guide.txt)
Hood