Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Katoh on January 17, 2013, 10:08:41 PM
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Colleagues
Embarrassment plus for me :-[ this not the first machine Ive played around with, but I can not get the steppers to move or even twinkle.
I'm using G203v drives putting 48v into them and have got them current set at 5amps. I'm also using two Homman BOB one is just for inputs and the other is to drive the motors and the Digispeed DCO3. What is really getting up my goat is the digispeed is working, the other parallel port all the pins are working also, but the motor outputs on that first BOB are just not working.
I have tried Active high/low putting the jumpers on all different settings but nothing seems to work.
Motors are wired in bipolar parallel, and are 570oz/in. But should be neither here nor there, I don't even get a whisper out of them where they should be singing away in tune.
Any thoughts?
Here is a quick snap of the BOB's the top one is for inputs the bottom for motors.
Cheers
Katoh
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Just a quick update, still cannot find the fault. When I go to jog one of the axis's I notice the yellow light comes on the gecko as well as the green. Strange indeed but still no movement.
Katoh
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Attach your xml and I will see if I can find anything wrong with it.
Hood
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H Katohi,
Looking at the image the MB-02V6 at the top right is set up as;
Outputs 2-9" Pullups 5V
Outputs 1,14,16,17: Pullups 5V
Inputs 10,11,12,13,15: Pullups 5V
Common terminal voltage: 0V <---------
Enable source: Enable Chip
D2-D9 direction: Inputs
Looking at the image the MB-02V6 at the bottom is set up as;
Outputs 2-9" Pullups 5V <----------
Outputs 1,14,16,17: Pullups 5V
Inputs 10,11,12,13,15: Pullups 0V
Common terminal voltage: 5V
Enable source: Enable Chip
D2-D9 direction: Output
So, I'm assuming that the bottom bob is driving the G203Vs? If so the common is set to 5V. This is incorrect, you need to set it to 0V as the G203Vs use positive logic. Also the outputs pullups need to be 0V as well for the same reason.
Cheers,
Peter
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Thanks So much Hood, You have helped me out more than I can count.
I tried a few other things changing the cables still nothing.here is my xml.
Hi Peter
Glad you have chimed in also. You are correct the top board is the inputs only and works well, the bottom board only controls the DC03 and the Geckos, I have tried the jumpers in all different configurations but still can not get movement. I am leaning toward a gecko problem maybe.
Where should I have the jumpers set to on the bottom board? I followed your PDF diagrams on your website. But if you remember back I had a bit of trouble getting the DC03 to work, but we nutted that one out.
Many thanks
Katoh
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First thing to say, if it is indeed a lathe then you can not use a Mill screenset as that will turn it into a mill :)
If you wish to use the mill screenset you will need to copy the 1024.set to your desktop then rename to maybe theo.lset then place back in the Mach folder and from View menu in Mach choose Load Screens then in the drop down file type choose Turn and you should now see your renamed screenset.
Hood
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Your steps per unit seem a bit low, could that be the problem, ie motors turning but that slow you hardly see?
Hood
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Actually Hood I was wondering about the screenshot also, and because I haven't seen a lathe in action I just assumed it was the same screenshot as the mill. Now I'm not too far into it to, maybe just reload mach I have the latest version downloaded it last night and just start from there, The way I'm going there is not many things on there anyway.
The steps/mm I thought was correct. Both ball-screws are 5mm /turn X and Z and Z has a slight mechanical advantage being belt driven at a ratio of 1 turn motor = 3/4 turn ball-screw.
Could it be this simple? Have I just miscalculated the whole thing. I'm not sure now.
Thanks Muchly Again
Katoh
Katoh
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200steps per motor rev with 10 microsteps 2000 steps per motor rev multiplied by 1.3333 for your gearing = 2666.6666666 per 5mm so divide by 5 to get per unit (1mm) = 533.3333333 so more than 13 times more than you have set for X and 17times more than you have for Z.
Hood
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Just noticed you ony have reduction on Z so Z will be 533.3333 and X 400
Hood
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Oh Dear!
Where is brain? I blame it on the extreme heat here at the moment 42degC today and its 9.30 pm and its still 39degC.
I went and quickly changed the settings and low and behold nothing, still no twinkle in those motors.
Maybe Peter can put some light on this with the jumper settings.
Strange even if the motors are getting a bit juice you would know but these are just stone cold dead.
Cheers
Katoh
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Sounds like electrical issue right enough.
Hood
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Many thanks for your help Hood, If I don't get anywhere with Peter, Ill have to just start replacing pieces, one by one. I know the steppers work as one of their brothers is on my router, the other two are new and where tested for a short while on a mill. Either the now the Geckos's or the Bob.
Now true Story just now my three children just bought down to me a little Gecko they caught in there bedroom, must of found its a way in somehow, I just released it outside. Could this be an OMEN!
Thanks Again
Katoh
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;D
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Thanks So much Hood, You have helped me out more than I can count.
I tried a few other things changing the cables still nothing.here is my xml.
Hi Peter
Glad you have chimed in also. You are correct the top board is the inputs only and works well, the bottom board only controls the DC03 and the Geckos, I have tried the jumpers in all different configurations but still can not get movement. I am leaning toward a gecko problem maybe.
Where should I have the jumpers set to on the bottom board? I followed your PDF diagrams on your website. But if you remember back I had a bit of trouble getting the DC03 to work, but we nutted that one out.
Many thanks
Katoh
First thing is that you absolutely need to have the common jumper set to 0V.
What is happening with the leds on the MB-02 board when you jog at a rapid rate or run a program. Do the leds for the DIR lines turn on or off with changes in direction.
Do the leds for the step lines glow as the jogging is executed?
This will indicate if the signals are reaching the Geckos
Cheers,
Peter
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Many thanks for your help Hood, If I don't get anywhere with Peter, Ill have to just start replacing pieces, one by one. I know the steppers work as one of their brothers is on my router, the other two are new and where tested for a short while on a mill. Either the now the Geckos's or the Bob.
Now true Story just now my three children just bought down to me a little Gecko they caught in there bedroom, must of found its a way in somehow, I just released it outside. Could this be an OMEN!
Thanks Again
Katoh
Oh Dear!
Where is brain? I blame it on the extreme heat here at the moment 42degC today and its 9.30 pm and its still 39degC.
I went and quickly changed the settings and low and behold nothing, still no twinkle in those motors.
Maybe Peter can put some light on this with the jumper settings.
Strange even if the motors are getting a bit juice you would know but these are just stone cold dead.
Cheers
Katoh
Do the motors "lock" when power is applied? If not the drive is not enabled.
What are you doing with the G203V disable line. It need to be disconnected or at 0V for the drive to be enabled.
Cheers,
Peter
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Hi Peter
How is the weather down your way? Still stinking hot here!
I have no motor activity whatsoever, Locking, movement, not even a little heat or a hum. I don't understand it. I don't think its your board but until I substitute I can not be sure. OTPO has a spare board the same, I might go and borrow his for a test session.
I read through the manual again and changed all the jumpers to 0v, I will attach a pic to make sure I'm on the right track, still nothing changing the settings in Mach, does not work either. Can not see me having 3 Bad Gecko's or can I?
I Disconnected the disable wire first up, unless it needs to be connected? My G204's all 6 of them run happy without it.
Many Thanks
Katoh
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This may be waaaay off base but after weeks of my own trial and errors trying to get Mach to move my motors, I discovered this which I found no previous forum or manual information on: The power supply to the driver card (in my case at least) must come from the PC. Otherwise, the step and direction logic (again in my case) doesn't work.
For clarity, I was converting an old Microkinetics SuperDrive setup that runs a Torchmate plasma cutting machine I built ten plus years ago. The SuperDrive case contains a 32v power supply plus a 5v power source which did go to the two Microkinetics DM4050 stepper driver cards as well as a dedicated 8bit ISA card in my antique PC. Took me a long time to figure out that the motion controller cards needed to see 5v from the PC in order to see the change in voltages on the step and direction pins from the parallel port. As soon as I changed where the driver board got its + 5v, the stepper motors came alive and I fell in love with the Mach 3 system.
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Hi Peter
How is the weather down your way? Still stinking hot here!
I have no motor activity whatsoever, Locking, movement, not even a little heat or a hum. I don't understand it. I don't think its your board but until I substitute I can not be sure. OTPO has a spare board the same, I might go and borrow his for a test session.
I read through the manual again and changed all the jumpers to 0v, I will attach a pic to make sure I'm on the right track, still nothing changing the settings in Mach, does not work either. Can not see me having 3 Bad Gecko's or can I?
I Disconnected the disable wire first up, unless it needs to be connected? My G204's all 6 of them run happy without it.
Many Thanks
Katoh
Hi Katoh,
If you supply the drives with 48V and have the disable not connected, and the motors do not lock, then my guess is that you have blown the fuse in the G203V
I don't think there is anything else it can be.
With power applied to the drives, the motors must lock if the drive is not disabled. In the drive there is a replaceable fuse. It looks like a green resistor.
Check it with a multimeter to see it is not blown.
Cheers,
Peter
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This may be waaaay off base but after weeks of my own trial and errors trying to get Mach to move my motors, I discovered this which I found no previous forum or manual information on: The power supply to the driver card (in my case at least) must come from the PC. Otherwise, the step and direction logic (again in my case) doesn't work.
For clarity, I was converting an old Microkinetics SuperDrive setup that runs a Torchmate plasma cutting machine I built ten plus years ago. The SuperDrive case contains a 32v power supply plus a 5v power source which did go to the two Microkinetics DM4050 stepper driver cards as well as a dedicated 8bit ISA card in my antique PC. Took me a long time to figure out that the motion controller cards needed to see 5v from the PC in order to see the change in voltages on the step and direction pins from the parallel port. As soon as I changed where the driver board got its + 5v, the stepper motors came alive and I fell in love with the Mach 3 system.
You can use a separate 5V power supply as long as the 0V for the separate supply connects to the PC 0V accessable on the pins 18-25 of the PC parallel port.
Cheers,
Peter
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Hi Peter
I went and borrowed another BOB today and still no luck. There us definitely a signal coming from mach, I can see those little leds light up and fade away as push the jog buttons some come up bright and others just faint and fade. But I don't believe its the board. I put a meter from 48v+ into the gecko and the other side to the outputs to motor some A+ and B- had 48v but A- and B+ had 34v, don't think that's the correct way to test wiring anyhow. Ill have to remove one of the Geckos and check the fuse, is there a way to test the stepper motor?
Cheers
Katoh
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I have just removed the gecko from the lathe, opened it up and checked the fuse, works fine.
I am doing a little test as list on the cnczone forum, checking connection between Pin 1 to 3,4,5,6 all of them show 100kohm resistance next checked from pin 2 to 3,4,5,6. all of them read 26kohm. Don't know if that's good or bad.
One thing I did notice is when I went to check it first using the screw heads on the terminal block I got a reading of nothing. Could it be the terminal block is just not making contact with the pins, Bit far fetched when its on all 3 geckos.
I have no idea where to look next!
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Hi Katoh,
Until you can get the Stepper motors to lock, there is no use in worrying about whether the step/dir signals are reaching the drive.
Checks that you have wired the steppers correctly to the G203V. You need to identity the pairs of wires that belong to each stepper coil.
With the stepper disconnected from the G203V use a multimeter to find the 2 wires belonging to each coil.The multimeter will show a few ohms between the 2 wires of a coil. Then check that the 2 wires of a coils are wired to A and /A and the other coil to B and /B
Also, what value of current set resistor are you using?
Cheers,
Peter
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Peter
I ran the multimeter across the wires I have coming back to the gecko's from the steppers and they are both dead, between A+ and A- or B+ and B-, meaning open circuit no matter which wires I touch. I have the drawings here for the motors, showing the wire colors and coils. I tried just running some power into the stepper direct to see if I could get it to do anything, but nothing. I might just find a motor I can wire up to the gecko that I know works and see what happens if it moves then my two motors have had it.
I'm using a 120 k resistor on the Gecko, to get 5amps, the specs on the motors call for 5amps/phase in parallel connection.
Thanks Again
Katoh
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Hi Katoh,
The fact that you are open circuit between A+ and A- and B+ and B- indicated that you may have the wires labelled incorrectly.
Did you try to measure between A+ and B+ or A+ and B- or A- and B+ or A- and B-
When you say you applied power to the steppers, how much voltage did you apply? Steppers are rated around 2V-5V. If you applied 48V then you would have smoked them after a short while.
If you applied 48V and nothing happened then my guess is that the wires you are calling say, A+ and A- are in fact wrong , and that would be lucky as you would have damaged the motor.
Don't just guess and try things otherwise you will eventually destroy something.
First step is to identy the wires that belong to each of the stepper coils.
Cheers,
Peter
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Also, how many wires do your steppers have?
Peter
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Peter
I'm about to go through all my stepper wiring now, I followed the the plan for the motors but Ill check the windings with an analog meter before trying again. The motors are 8 wire not had thing to wire up, but I'm going to double check everything anyway.
I tried to power up the stepper with a 9v battery, that usually does the trick.
Thanks
Katoh
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Gentlemen
I want to start with the phrase, "its Alive"
like to thank Hood and Peter and Nutron for all their help in solving this problem.
The Bob is fine , the Gecko's are fine and the motors are fine, The constructor/operator needs to see an optometrist, or has a problem with dyslexia! Yet to be proven but as far as facts go operator error is to blame for this error.
Need anymore be said, as total embarrassment came forthwith by being correct by one's 12year old daughter. :-[
lets just say I had a problem telling apart the purple and brown :-[ GO FIGURE!
Cheers
Katoh
And a happy new year to all!
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:)
I'm off to get some shut-eye then.
Cheers,
Peter
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Ha ha well just put it down to experience :)
Hood
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Thanks again Gentlemen, if you need me I'll be hiding in some obscure corner with my mice friends, *********e talk about feeling like the town fool!
Ill post some images of this little beast when I get to actually make something.
Many Thanks Again
"Squeak Squeak"
Katoh
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Ha ha want some cheese? ;D
Seriously though if you have never made a mistake in your life then you are a lier so dont be embarrassed, well unless of course you do the same thing next week, in that case I will send out a lump of cheese for you ;D
Hood