Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: comet on January 15, 2013, 08:36:45 AM

Title: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on January 15, 2013, 08:36:45 AM
Hi my mach3 set up has developed a strange fault,occasionally while jogging (i have 2 mpg's fitted) an axis will creep on continuosly without having the handle turned? and it will carry on creeping at about 30mmpm until you hit reset. it is random apart from it generally happens when you have been doing alot of jogging,ie setting up,I have actually broke a couple of tools now so any help will do.
  thanks
    Tony
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hood on January 15, 2013, 01:55:37 PM
Do the DROs in Mach reflect the movement?
Do you have in step mode when using MPG?
Do you have a fairly low acceleration set for the axis?
Hood
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on January 15, 2013, 02:00:13 PM
Do the DROs in Mach reflect the movement?    Yes
Do you have in step mode when using MPG?   No
Do you have a fairly low acceleration set for the axis?    No

hope that helps
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hood on January 15, 2013, 02:03:39 PM
Not really ;D was hoping at least one was the case ;D
Could still be noise on the encoder input but unlikely.
Can you attach your xml and I will look and see if there are any issues in it.
Hood
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on January 15, 2013, 02:48:01 PM
Sure ill brave the cold and nip out to the garage and copy it!

Tony
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hood on January 16, 2013, 02:56:53 AM
looks like you froze on the way ;D

Hood
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on January 16, 2013, 03:18:29 AM
Interesting problem this and I wonder what the solution will be.

This creep, very occasionally, happens to me but I have made a few observations…

When opening Mach3 the Reset is flashing – if it can be cancelled using the keyboard  ‘  character then the creep never happens. If the Reset can only be cancelled by clicking on the Reset button then creep can occur. My solution is to close and re-open Mach3 and only run it when the Reset can be cancelled by the keyboard  ‘  character.
I know it is just a work-around but it works for me.
My suspicion is that it is related to the way in which my PC handles USB keyboard etc. communications but I would love to know the definitive answer.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on January 16, 2013, 03:46:48 AM
tweaky, thinking about it this has only started since i put a cheap chinese usb button pendant on,which i would like to continue to use cos its so usefull, ill try your solution but as its random i doubt i'll have a quick answer. Hood, Yes it was just too cold here just south of birmingham (worcester UK) even colder today!

    Tony
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hood on January 16, 2013, 04:01:54 AM
Ha ha lucky you dont live up in the Highlands, was -13.5C last night in some places.

Interesting about the keyboard, I dont use keyboard shortcuts at all.
Hood
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hal on January 16, 2013, 11:52:47 AM
I wonder if the Chinese pendant is sticking or randomly resending the command? Is the creap the same as the last botton on the pendant? Can you try a ps/2 keyboard?

Hal
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on January 16, 2013, 12:06:22 PM
Quote
Can you try a ps/2 keyboard?

Hi Hal,

Unfortunately I don't have PS/2 available on my PC so I can't try that option here - perhaps Tony will have some more information.

Would be interesting to hear if others have seen this weird behaviour also.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on January 17, 2013, 05:31:15 PM
OK finaly got to get the xlm, dont think the answer lies there,as ive used the same one roughtly for a few years,it is a new(to me) computer,I use a ps2 keyboard (cherry) and a dell usb mouse,other than the pendant, Remember it hapens in mpg mode not continuos,using the pendant.

oh and the creep is on the axis you used last,i.e. if you wind the x axis it carries on creeping
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hood on January 17, 2013, 05:48:22 PM
Nothing glaringly wrong in the xml, kernel is set higher than you need but should not cause an issue unless your time in int is quite high. Even then it would be more likely to crash than cause such an issue.
 One thing you could try, especially as its just happened since you have used the USB pendant, if go to device manager and make sure the power saving option is turned off for your USB hubs. Not sure if it would make a difference if it went to sleep and woke up again but it may, all depends how the pendant is configured I suppose.
Hood
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on January 17, 2013, 05:56:47 PM
dont know if you remember but i had timing issues and at the set kernal speed the actual and reported feedrates are closest,i havnt had any issues with unreliability at these setting.
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hood on January 17, 2013, 05:58:58 PM
Ah ok had not remembered that, in fact still dont but I am getting old ;D
Hood
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: jimthefish on January 24, 2013, 03:37:15 PM
Just a thought, I had problems with my spindle creeping (see changing computers) it was down to some software on the secondhand computer I bought sending a signal down the printer line. Apart from your Chinese pendant (I use one) have you any software recently installed that could be sending a signal down the X axis config pin. Jim
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on January 24, 2013, 03:43:42 PM
Jim its not just the x axis,last night it was creeping on z,x & a simultaneously

    Tony
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hood on January 24, 2013, 04:23:39 PM
If you remove the pendant does it behave?
Hood
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on January 24, 2013, 05:07:20 PM
well thats the next step,trouble is i just cant tell immediatly
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Garfield on February 14, 2013, 10:09:56 AM
Hi, i have the same problem with shuttle pro Vers. 2.0. If i move the machine with the outer ring in one direction, and then release the ring, the machine does not stop, but walk very slowly in the direction i selected. It stops not untill i rotate it a little bit over zero in the other direction.
I use Mach3R3.043.058 german Version und the plugin available from this page.
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on March 20, 2013, 12:15:32 PM
OK have been running the machine for a while now without the pendant and I still have the same problem,plus another potentonly lethal one happened the other day. I was jogging with the hand wheel and all 3 axis went off at about 300 mmpm until the servos faulted when the first axis hit the stop. Upon reset I couldnt do anything so I restarted and found that my config file was wiped?? luckly id got a back up,never had that happen before in 6 years of using mach, any ideas?
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on November 24, 2013, 12:37:53 PM
Any more thoughts on this guys? I'm still having the problem?
Tony
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hermie on November 24, 2013, 01:11:51 PM
I had the same problem with my xml getting wiped, turned out to be, in my case, a windows problem, caused by a corrupt registry. Just a thought :)
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on November 24, 2013, 01:33:44 PM
Hmm yes its looking more and more like a format and total reload, just such a pain finding all the drivers again! And you know its goiing toi be 3 hours work and probably won't cure it, which is the most stable version for using with a tool changer? Can I use my old mach files ie xlm settings oir is it ewise to re write them from scratch ?
Tony
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hermie on November 25, 2013, 09:31:59 AM
Ive been using version 62 for about a year it seems fairly stable. I reused the xml in my backup. Nothing changed on the machine so there was no need to change anything in the settings. The only thing I changed was turning off the wi-fi connection so windows wouldnt update and mess with the settings.
Herman
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on December 09, 2013, 05:49:39 AM
ok reloaded mach,made no difference, did the press  , for reset trick and it still made no difference.it has got to be something to do with the MPG set up side of things,maybe having 2 mpg's is not so good? could it be the pci pp card that the mpg's wire into? any thoughts guys?
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hood on December 09, 2013, 06:22:12 AM
Only thing I can suggest is you physically swap the MPG's to the pins that the other is using and see if the problem stays with the MPG that is problematic or whether it stays with the pins.

That is of course if it is just the one MPG that is causing the issue?

Hood
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on December 09, 2013, 06:34:58 AM
nope its both mpg's and it can happen when there set in any axis combination, once they start creeping i need to flick a hardwired axis selection or step/cont. switch to stop it? as far as pci pp are concerned ive noticed that the moschip ones donot work bi directional ie 2-9 as inputs is there a recomendation for a card that does,i have an old ime ? card which does but there very hard to find these days.
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hood on December 09, 2013, 07:55:38 AM
Does it happen if you disable one MPG?
Hood
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on December 09, 2013, 07:58:16 AM
ill try it in the next couple of days,in my sick bed at the moment :(
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on November 04, 2014, 05:42:45 AM
ok Ive changed the computer and fitted a uc300,and the machine still creeps occasionally when using mpg's.
the only thing I can think of is that I use 2 mpg's and maybe theres a bug in mach's code?

Tony
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: rcaffin on November 07, 2014, 03:47:43 AM
That's not a bug in mach. That's a hardware bug. Why?
Because way back at the beginning you said that the Mach DROs were showing the creep. In other words, Mach was getting commands from somewhere to move.

There may be a bug in your MPGs, or there may be a bug in the hardware interface to the MPGs, or there may be a bug between you computer and whatever external engine (UC300?) you are using.

But there is a hardware bug somewhere. (Um - unless there are two bugs.)

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on November 07, 2014, 08:23:20 AM
Roger yes I see your logic, my mpg's are cheap Chinese ones. is there a debounce setting for the mpgs? or do I need to put capacitors on them ? could it be an earthing problem? when the creep happens it will continue until I switch mpg,s  so I guess it probably is an issue with a spurious puls from that area.

Tony
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: rcaffin on November 07, 2014, 02:38:51 PM
> is there a debounce setting for the mpgs?
Not to the best of my knowledge, but others might know better.

I am not sure the hardware problem has to lie inside the MPG. It could be a poor connection at the connector or inside your hardware. In particular I would check all the earth connections right through, then the power supply connections. Then i would check that the power supply can actually handle the load of the MPGs - does the rail sag at all when you plug them in?

Actually, I would start by testing the system withOUT the MPGs. Use the keyboard instead - that's all I use. If there is creep showing on the DROs without any MPG connected, you have a real noise problem in the rest of the hardware. Somewhere.

Cheers
Roger
CNC: one way to get it right; a thousand ways to get it wrong.

Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on November 10, 2014, 05:38:53 AM
it never creeps with the the mpg's disconnected, the creep only happens if you go from one mpg to the other too quickly and very rarely at that, im wondering how the mpg's could be putting out a spurious pulse train?, unless they are "dithering" under the correct circumstances.
    I couldn't possibly go back to keyboard only after the luxury of MPG,s !!

tony
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: rcaffin on November 10, 2014, 06:02:02 AM
Quote
it never creeps with the the mpg's disconnected, the creep only happens if you go from one mpg to the other too quickly
Ah well, that tells you where the problem is likely to be.
I would suggest checking that the main machine and the MPGs all agree on what is 'active' - HI or LO.

Quote
I couldn't possibly go back to keyboard only after the luxury of MPG,s !!
Um - you would prefer to have the MPGs and the creep in place of keyboard and no creep?
:-)

Cheers
Roger

Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on November 10, 2014, 07:54:17 AM
How do you alter the active high/low state?
yes as long as im careful it doesn't creep, which is far better than no mpg's, Ive learnt to live with it, its just sometimes it catches you out ! :o
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: rcaffin on November 10, 2014, 02:42:34 PM
> How do you alter the active high/low state?
Mach, config, pins&ports,MPGs ... SAVE CONFIG

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: comet on November 10, 2014, 05:08:19 PM
cant see anything in there about active high and low, just ports and pins?
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: rcaffin on November 10, 2014, 08:30:12 PM
Ah - yes, I may have misled you a bit. My apologies. Wrong page.

The MPG page does not have any settings for active HI/LO, but are your MPGs using that page? It is possible that the MPGs on your Mach system is configured to use the Input Signals page instead, where the Jog signals at the bottom do have the option for Active HI or LO.

Come to think of it, how have you managed to put TWO MPGs onto your system - as you said earlier? Neither the MPGs nor the Jogs pages permit that. If you have confused poor Mach then anything is possible (but most likely NOT good)  :-)

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: Hood on November 12, 2014, 06:14:19 PM
rcaffin
You can set up to 3 MPGs in Mach and you can select which axis each works from the Tab screen (X Y Z A B C)

comet
Do your MPGs have indents? I am curious when you say
Quote
as long as im careful it doesn't creep
What exactly do you mean by being careful?

Hood

Title: Re: unwanted creep in jog mode?
Post by: rcaffin on November 12, 2014, 07:57:36 PM
Hi Hood

Terminology, and I may be wrong here.
I was assuming that he meant two full 3-axis MPG units. Two single axis MPGs - of course.
Once again, insufficient information.

Cheers
Roger