Machsupport Forum
Tangent Corner => Tangent Corner => Topic started by: Overloaded on December 24, 2012, 02:26:32 PM
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Ok Folks, here is an easy one .... maybe.
I am at the end of a dirt road, in the mountains and stuck on dial-up. Satellite is an option but not affordable right now.
One other option I'm considering is a Data plan with a wireless cell provider.
My brother loaned me a little USB modem that plugs into the laptop. While inside my home or shop, the signal is very poor to poor and hardly works at all ... but does a little.
If I carry the pc out around the yard, the signal strength goes up to Med on occasion but is usually around Poor. This isn't much faster than my dialup though (on average).
I think I might be able to get a steady MED signal if I were to mount the modem on a pole (20' maybe ?) if so, This would be fast enough for me (10x current) and priced right.
Question is: will a 30'+ USB cable work ? ? or could it be converted to Cat5 ? ? ? Ethernet ? ? ? Is this idea worthwhile ?
Weather proofing isn't a problem ... afaik.
Thanks for any suggestions,
Russ
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http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030312&p_id=7533&seq=1&format=3#specification
Do you know if this would work w/a cell signal ? Looks like it might be what I need ?
Also see Cat 5 & 6 converters but I guess there would be 2 .. one at each end ? ? ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-to-CAT5e-CAT6e-RJ45-LAN-Modem-XBOX-Extension-Extender-Adapter-Cable-Lead-/121014983641?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2d0e1bd9
Not sure.
Any help at all, appreciated.
Thanks
HAPPY HOLIDAYS to ALL ! ! !
Russ
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I have used a usb a extender on a webcam to keep an eye on the cutter from my office, it worked fine for that. However it was removed along with 300 others from sites because they were
unreliable before i got it.
Another option could be a dongle with a aerial socket and put the aerial up the pole.
Or a 3G/wifi router http://www.solwise.co.uk/3g-routers.htm (http://www.solwise.co.uk/3g-routers.htm)
Or a Iphone / smartphone with tethering ?
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Russ,
I use a wireless USB modem on the pc in the basement and the router is 2 floors up and have no problems.
The modem is rather restricted in how far it can send a signal. Rather limited in power and some of them have better range than others. Now the router is rather limited in it's reception also.
You can increase the range of some of the modems by making a very simple more directional attenna.
Since it's rather line of sight you may be able to point it in the right direction and having it off the ground will help avoid line of sight abstructions.
How far / long can the line be?..........well it depends on the signal loss thru the wire and the power gain of the attenna.
Can be tweaked and measured but doubt you have the stuff to analyze. Know any ham operators in your neck of the woods
as they could probably help you out.
I need to ask my friend and get a lnk to the how to do it.
No cost just some Al wrap and cardboard. It'll be a few days before I post the info.
RICH
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Good tips guys, thanks.
I like the idea of an antenna bb, never thought of that. They are on the site you linked.
Hey Rich, this modem I tried does not use a router, it gets the signal directly from the cell towers. If I'm explaining it right.
If I used a regular router, I would still have to receive the cell signal for the router. Unless the router is wireless and is compatible with the cell service ? ? ?
I am researching as I go along, this is new to me.
Ideally, an external (outdoor) antenna and cable to the modem at the router, then wireless to the PC's sounds great. If that's doable ? ? ? Guessing ?
Thanks again to you both,
Russ
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not sure, but it looks like this might be what I'm needing.
http://www.solwise.co.uk/3g-antenna-outdoor.htm from bb's link. This should receive the signal from the cell ? Then some sort of cable to connect to a modem that is compatible with the cell company, then to the router/PC. ? ? ?> Stopping by the cell co. when they reopen.
Hmmm .... headscratchin'
Thanks
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Russ,
The router sends and recieves signals. So it acts as a transciever which is a radio which can transmit and also recieve signals.
The router is designed to operate best in a range of frequencies. The antenna is also deisgned for the same range of frequencies
and can enhance both an incoming signal and outgoing signal and that is expressed in terms of its gain. 3db doubles or reduces
the signal power. By "deisgned for", the antenna can take those electrical signals in a certain range of frequencies and enhance them and same goes for the router. The router has internal circuitry to accept and reject signals not in its range of frequencies
so it filters outs the signals.
So if you point the antenna at the cell tower you'll get the best transmissioin and recieve to and from the routers antenna.
Just like what you do for an old TV that uses an antenna. Comunication towers can have a beam width angle of only 1 degree.
Thus antennas have transmit recieve and gain, more sensitivity to certain signals, and can be more directional and that depends the type of antenna.
The signal from the router has a very low power level, mw ( milli watts ). The line connecting the router to the antenna
will cause signal loss. Since you don't have much power you want to minimise that loss and as such you want to use an
appropriate cable for the range of frequencies it will transmit. The antenna will then increase that signal to the cell tower.
The less abstruction in the path of the signal the better the electrical wave can travel. So mount the antenna on your pole
above ground with the cable from the antenna to the router inside. The PC wireless USB adapter can then be used by any computer to communicate with the router. Another way is to run cable to the router from the pc.
Tried to keep this very generic and not get techie about anything.
Hope this helps,
BTW, Merry Christmas :)
RICH
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That makes good sense Rich, and your verbiage is clearly understood. Thanks for bumping it down a notch for me.
I have searched a bit but do not see what I think I am needing.
1. I assume that I MUST use the wireless MODEM from the provider, ( EW ESS SELLYOULAR in this case).
From what I'm seeing, this MODEM would plug into the ROUTERr and does the receiving, not the router.
2. Then the router transmits that signal received by the MODEM around the house.
3. From your description, I'm seeing a wireless router, with an EXTERNAL outdoor remotely mounted receiving antenna via cable on a pole that is compatible with the providers system. This would negate the use of their modem ? Or, where would their modem be used in your example.
4. I see plenty of routers that either require a DSL or wireless MODEM input, but none with a built in wireless modem that will work with thw above mentione provider.
If you see one, could you please post a link with more info ? maybe a diagram ?
Forgive me if I'm missing the obvious, I'm like Walsh ... an ANALOG man.
Thanks Rich, Have a MERRY one ... CHRISTmas, that is.
Regards,
Russ
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Another option could be a dongle with a aerial socket and put the aerial up the pole.
There is a cool booster antenna on the site that looks like it would work well "if" I could use a longer USB cable. But. It requires a SIM card and the card is NOT removable from the providers modem. And, it says this is not to be used with a router.
Still searching .... Thanks again bb,
Russ
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Russ,
Correct.The MODEM recieves the providers signals. Sorry about my description. And since you are using an exsting old phone line
system and not cable then the rate of transmission over the phone line is painfully slow. Talk to your provider since you want a modem that
will be using an external antenna instead of a land line. They will know what can or can't be provided and what you can expect. If you lease it from them, then if the result is unsatisfactory,you can return it. Additioinaly the technician can set the modem up for you plus you are using their provided software.
The modem is connected to the router via a cable. The router is also wireless and has a small antenna which transmits to the USB device at the computer or you may have a newer computer with one built in. ( similar to using a wireless mouse). The connect range to the router is usualy lower than an external one. Netgear sells wireless routers for example and may come with a USB device. The router is set up such that only your computers can tie into the router. Range could be up to say 150 feet. You also use software provided with the router.
3. From your description, I'm seeing a wireless router, with an EXTERNAL outdoor remotely mounted receiving antenna via cable on a pole that is compatible with the providers system. This would negate the use of their modem ? Or, where would their modem be used in your example.
See above.
RICH
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Hi Rich,
I need to go back to the beginning.
My current provider has NO OTHER options ... NO DSL or anything wireless ... nothing. nada, zip. And there is no competition. Dial-up only.
The plan is to eliminate the phone line by switching to a US Cellular DATA plan with NO phone, no tethering, messaging, text or anything else ... data only.
They supply a small USB Modem that sticks into the PC. Their website shows NO OTHER hardware, no antenna or cables and the SIM card cannot be removed to be used in another device. This arrangement ONLY works if I climb a tree.
What I want is to boost the reception to an acceptable level by putting the modem and/or antenna on the pole. I would need about 40' of usb or ethernet total.
Just not sure if the MODEM itself needs to be atop the pole, or if there is an external antenna with coax or something that would go up the pole keeping the actual modem inside.
Some of the modem devices don't seem to be compatible with routers but there is a Hot Spot device that is availabl which might do the trick instead of a router.
So for now, we can disregard the router.
The major issue is the laptop with the USB modem from US Cellular being able to see "over the hill".
Hoping they will be open tomorrow so I can talk to them.
Thanks Rich !
Russ :)
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Russ, I have been in the same boat as you for many years. I've been down every road imaginable, trying to get some decent service. I tried the satellite option. I hated it. If it even LOOKED like rain, there would be no signal. This was NOT due to poor aiming of the dish, either. Even when I did get online, there was a cap on the amount of data you could receive within a period of time. Ping times were absolutely horrendous. Needless to say, satellite did not last very long at all. Next was ISDN. It is a digital line, rather than analog. Speeds were 12k. Pings were sub 100. cost was 40-50 a month if I remember correctly. Very doubtful that cost is still the same. Probably more like 80-90 month now. I currently have had wireless internet for about 2 years, and can't really complain. It's been a real life saver. Recently, we have upgraded to 4G with Verizon, and now surfing the web is a real breeze. As of this minute, pings are 75, download is 10Mbps, and upload is 12.5Mbps. I certainly cannot complain about that! No, it's not cable or fiber, or even DSL, but it sure is a helluva lot better than dial up or ISDN!! Before the 4G, (3G) pings were around 150-250, downloads around 2Mbps. I should note that I can see the towers from my window. Speeds will also vary according to "tower crowding" and signal strength. There are plans on the web for a simple DIY signal booster, called a "cantenna", which I did not have any luck with, or you can purchase a directional, or omni-directional antenna for your USB modem if need be. You have to purchase the correct antenna that works with the frequency of the service. Sprint uses a different frequency than Verizon, for instance. The only services that I know of are Sprint, and Verizon. US Cellular would not be an option, I think. Sprint data is capped at 80 GIG/month, and most likely only 3G in your area, and Verizon is capped at 20 GIG/month, 3G/4G. Cost is around 60-70/month. NOT CHEAP when compared to other /better services, but when that's your only option, you can take it or leave it. 20 GIG may seem like an unobtainable amount of data, but the reality is...when you have access to it, more than likely you will use every bit of it. The final word of advise is.....don't get service thru the phone companies, but rather a reseller. Millinicom charges a flat fee. No taxes. No access fees. No "this" fee. No "that" fee. No fee for 911 access or any bogus crap the cell companies would tack on. NO CONTRACT!!! You do have to purchase a USB modem, and pay some upfront fees, but after that, everything is good. If you get the Sprint plan, I think you can even get a modem off Ebay (or wherever) and save a few bucks.
http://www.millenicom.com/
Tech support is very good too, should you need it.
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Howdy Sam !
Been there, done that, huh.
My dialup is at about 40 "K"bps. average. But, it's UNLIMITED. ha ha ha
Millenicom says NO service in my area.
USC looks to be the best, by just barely.
I'm looking at their 2G for $25 , $10 for 1G over.
I currently use about 2G and would have to resist going wild with it. (I know what you mean though)
Snow and ice today, might not get in to see them till it clears up.
Thanks for your input Sam.
Kindest regards,
Russ
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Not sure if I missed this going through the posts, but why not just get a signal booster? We use Wilson brand cell signal boosters for rural areas, in some cases going from zero connectivity to enough signal to get full speed data from the service provider. See if you can find a local shop that will let you take one home and try it, or one that offers a try and buy
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I'll certainly check into that !
Thanks for the info,
Russ
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Hey Russ,
Send me a PM with your telephone number ( not sure if i still have it ) and I'll give you call tonight / you pick the time.
At work got to go......
RICH
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Russ,
USB modem ( the one from US Cellular) > amplifier > Mofi Router > connect wireless or by cable to any computer.
>.....means connects to
You need to have an adequate signal from US Cellular, the amplifier can improve that,once you have a strong signal the wireless router
can be used to connect to any pc / or pc's via CAT 5 cable or wireless.
Test that can be done:
Mount the USB modem up on the pole / out the window on upper floor and run a usb cable ( can buy a 15' for about $11) from the usb modem to the laptop. The usb cable is limited to about 15 feet but if it works may be able to eliminate an amplifier. The cable length can limit the data transmition rate from the router to the PC. Certainly worth a try.
RICH
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Thanks Rich, the test yopu mentiomed is exactly what I was thinking earlier, but need more like 50'. I did a little scouting today.
OK, here's what I learned. The person at the USC store didnt know squat.
A techie friend said that a Wilson amp would work. It has 2 antennas, one picks up the weak signal, the other broadcasts the boosted signal. Then the USC modem receives the wireless boosted signal normally. No prob, except the $ of the amp. The modem must go to the PC ... no router. The PC can re-rout if necessary.(Or buy a modem for each PC)
The other thing to try is what I guessed first off, the modem on a pole ... ha , a "Modem Pole" ... convert the USB to Cat5 -50', back to USB then to the PC should work.
And, another thing to be aware of is that it's winter and the leaves are down. Summer might be a bit weaker signal ... or possibly NONE. It is borderline here.
The pole, cat5 cable and converters is the cheapest experiment. I will try that next.
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Mention was also made of an "Active" USB extension cable ... as long as 32' I see, and they can be added in series as necessary.
Time will tell.
Experimenting when the weather breaks.
Out to shovel snow ... before it ices over.
Thanks
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Oooo make that 65'.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=690727&SRCCODE=WEBGOOPA&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCV1-CjCE&gclid=CIyRmNufubQCFQsGnQod4gMA2Q
Russ
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Currently in trial with a Mobile Hot Spot from USC.
Signal strength = weak
Up to 5 devices @ 150' max.
Working pretty well, even from one building to another (but the speed drops a bit).
Will have to commit to a 2 yr contract soon. Just hope the summer leaves don't mess it up.
Looks like I won't be trying the cantenna or other booster experiments until necessary. (Thanks Rich and Sam).
Might revisit this post then....if necessary.
Thanks again folks !
Cookin' right along now, just have to watch my habits as now I can see all of your cool vids.
Russ
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I think I would wait until spring, those leaves could ruin the whole show then you are stuck with a 2 year contract. OR ask for a contract provision that allows you an OUT after spring due to performance issues.
Just a thought. (;-) TP
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I have 4 more days to decide, after that, there is no turning back. I asked about this initially.
We have 2 cell phones. Mine gets a pretty good signal and her's usually will not work. Only difference is the phone mfg. so I'm guessing there is slight differences in the antennas and the signal strength here is marginal. Everyone says "if the phone works, the so should the data".
Another thing, the device was like $300 off for new customers. Now if I cancel, then decide to hook up again when the leaves come out for another trial, I would probably no longer be a new customer but a returning one and would likely have to by the device. (just assuming as they usually work these things to their advantage)
Thanks TP,
Russ
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Wish you luck........
RICH