Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: johnny on December 14, 2012, 08:25:27 PM

Title: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 14, 2012, 08:25:27 PM
Z code looses the computer after a code post and just keeps going. Nothing on the computer stops it. Only E-Stop does and if you don't clear the DRO it will start back up when you reset the E-Stop.

Code G01 Z1.0000 and the DRO moves to 0.0001 and that's where it stays. The mill will lower till it bottoms out or you hit E-Stop.
I was resetting the steps when this started and I have checked the steps and that is right, I checked the stepper cable and it has continuity at all pins, , Whats next please.
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 15, 2012, 06:46:43 AM
Attach your xml and I will have a look and see if I can find an issue.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: angel tech on December 15, 2012, 08:02:49 AM
do you have a virus protector on the computer.?
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 15, 2012, 11:33:18 AM
I have Norton
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: angel tech on December 15, 2012, 11:34:24 AM
remove it completely, i've seen this move an axis before.
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 15, 2012, 05:24:16 PM
XML  File
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 15, 2012, 05:51:07 PM
Afraid that is not your xml you have attached.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 16, 2012, 01:42:22 AM
try this again
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 16, 2012, 08:09:09 AM
Dont see anything wrong in your xml so really it sounds like a hardware issue. This is especially so as you say the DRO in Mach stops, Mach gets its readings in the DRO from monitoring the pulses it puts out at the PP so it would seem to suggest hardware.
Dont suppose you have a scope? If you do you sould confirm whether that is the case or not.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 16, 2012, 11:34:05 AM
I don't have a scope. I don't know even if I could rent one.
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: angel tech on December 16, 2012, 12:00:38 PM
have you tried removing norton
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 16, 2012, 01:13:22 PM
You may be able to use a volt meter and  although it will not give you as clear an idea as a scope would it should be good enough to see if the port is putting out pulses when its not meant to be.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 17, 2012, 01:02:21 AM
Hood, I was a millwrite. I am not sure what you are talking about. What Port and where do I find it. Completely dumb on some of this stuff. But I am learning through the school of hard knocks as long as I can fine teachers

Also I did some more playing today. If I zero the DRO and move it in a direction, then move it in the same direction, it works fine. Change directions is when it separates its self and keeps running. Zero it out and it will work in that direction till I change again.

I haven't removed Norton basically because it's a comcast package> I will remove it in the near future when that computer becomes a designated computer. It almost is now.
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 17, 2012, 03:04:00 AM
Ideally you would change the active state of your E-Stop in ports and pins which would then allow you to disconnect the parallel port cable from port 1 and still be able to reset Mach. Then measure the voltage between pins 6 and 25 on the port. Do your tests and see if the voltage continues after Mach has stopped but when the motor would be running away. You will likely need the voltage setting in the  mV range as it is a pulsed voltage so you will not see anywhere near the 5v you may expect. That will not matter however as all you are interested in is whether the voltage continues after the DRO in Mach has stopped.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 18, 2012, 05:59:10 PM
I did go to ports and pins and unchecked port 1. I measured pin 6 and ground to pin 25. I got a steady 0.5 MV
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 18, 2012, 06:26:48 PM
when it was moving ?
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 18, 2012, 06:33:01 PM
Yes
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 18, 2012, 06:34:57 PM
Ok just to clear things up
You jog or command the Z and you get 0.5mV
You stop jogging and its still 0.5mV?
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 18, 2012, 06:47:42 PM
I coded g01 z3.000 f05 and measured it for some time, , I didnt measure it stopped. I can though
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 18, 2012, 06:50:45 PM
Suggest you command as fast a move as you can. A voltmeter is not the best to use so if just commanding a slow move you will not see a lot of difference. Then again 0.5mV is absolutely nothing and even feeding at 5IPM should show way more than that.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 18, 2012, 07:47:25 PM
tried G0 Z200.00 , , Still get close to the same, , it was 0.4 MV running and 0.4 stopped
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: woodspinner on December 18, 2012, 09:06:30 PM
I did go to ports and pins and unchecked port 1. I measured pin 6 and ground to pin 25. I got a steady 0.5 MV

is port one still disabled?
I believe it would prevent mach from doing anything on that port.

John
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 18, 2012, 11:37:40 PM
Yes
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 18, 2012, 11:39:07 PM
As I see it and maybe I am wrong but Mach DRO is running. It just isn't turning the machine
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 19, 2012, 02:58:13 AM
Ok sorry just read again after woodspinner asked that question. You do not want Port 1 disabled, if you do that then you will not get pulses from it. What I said was change the active state of the E-Stop in ports and pins so that when you pull the cable from the port you are still able to Reset Mach. That way when you command a move the port will still be getting the pulses.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 19, 2012, 04:45:15 PM
Okay, I went to ports and pins, Pin set up and checked the box to enable port 1. Moved to Input signals, Found E stop  box and changed it, Clicked apply and okay. Rechecked and it had changed back. repeated steps half a doz times with the same result

I did take a reading anyway but no change except in G0 the reading is 0.6 MV instead of 0.4 of g1
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 20, 2012, 03:08:37 AM
What did you change in E-Stop? It is the active state only that you need to change, did you try and disable it?
You need to be able to take Mach out of Reset before you can test.
0.4 or 0.6 mV is next to nothing and basically means nothing is coming out of the port, if Mach is in Reset (Reset flashing) then that is to be expected. If Mach is out of Reset and you are jogging then something is wrong, either you are trying to read the wrong pins or possiobly you have the meter set to something other than DC mV scale.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 20, 2012, 12:36:59 PM
The only place I see a E-stop mentioned is in ports and pins, Input signals, scroll down to a box titled E-Stop and I unchecked this box turning it to red. It doesn't stay red and I don't see any other place to do any thing with E=Stop
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 20, 2012, 01:25:00 PM
In the same line as that you have port number and pin number then active low, put a tick in that box so that when you pull the cable out Mach will still think the E-Stop is ok and you will be able to reset.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 21, 2012, 01:15:35 AM
After some thought it is possible I am reading the wrong pins. I am off tomorrow and can work with this then. If the diagram that I have used of the PP end is female then I need the mirror image of what I am testing. I will reset E-Stop and start over. . Thanks for your help and patience
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 21, 2012, 12:58:23 PM
I reset the E stop as instructed. Checked pins and no result. Thinking I might need the mirror image, changed pins and its amazing what you get when its right. Guess that's why I was a millwrite.  Stop reading is 039.3 and running is 149.1 with a slight bounce to 149.2 but it remains pretty steady. I took this 3 times an came up with the same answer. I see no pulse.
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 21, 2012, 02:03:50 PM
Ok you wont see a pulse, the voltage being sent out is a pulse of 5v or so but because the meter is not nearly fast enough to show that voltage at the speed its pulsing you see a much lower average.
Ok so now on to the test, your Z was carrying on after it was supposed to be stopped so if you can command a move that would make it do that and read the voltage whilst doing it. If the voltage stops as the DRO in Mach stops then you know the computer side of things is correct.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 21, 2012, 03:55:55 PM
I coded g0  z15.000 so I could get a good look and did this several times. 039.4 stopped and 149.4 running and then stopped returns to 039.4. So that looked good but then I coded g0 z0.0000 and it moved 0.001 an stopped on the DRO and I got 061.4 MV, ,  Stop it an re code it and it would run, It doesn't change direction with out using the code twice
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 21, 2012, 05:31:09 PM
Ok something strange there, I have tested and retested with your xml and I dont have any issues.
Can you swap pin numbers for say X and Z and retest and see if you  get the same readings on the new Z pin (pin2 )
Then command a X move like you did for the Z and see what results you get.
Also run the driver test with Mach shut down and see what it is like.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 21, 2012, 05:58:19 PM
Do you mean use Pin 2 instead of pin 6 and use X to move it? I will put the machine on manual and see if z works there
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 21, 2012, 06:02:37 PM
What I was meaning was swap pin 2 and 6 around in Mach, Z Step pin would now be pin 2 and X pin 6.
If you tested between pin 2 and 25 and commanded a Z move as before and see what readings you get.
Then do the same between pin 6 and 25 and command a similar move but this time on the X.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 21, 2012, 06:36:45 PM
Where do I do this swap?  In Manual Z still works in only one direction. As Z10.000 it moves fine but Z0.000 it moves to 9.9999 and the DRO stops but the maching keeps going.
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 21, 2012, 07:08:52 PM
Config menu then Ports and Pins then Motor Setup.

Not sure what you are meaning by "In Manual"

Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 21, 2012, 11:06:27 PM
After a thought I was grabbing at straws with Manual. What I did was change spindle control to manual

When I changed the pins around the problem transfurs to pin 2 and pin 6 works well.I don't know what that means but it is defiantly in Z
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 22, 2012, 02:06:15 PM
What triggers z to move in a differant direction. For instance I made up a short code as follows:

G0 Z5.0000
Z0.0000
Z5.0000
Z0.0000
In every instance it would change directions and move 0.001 and stop. If I stop the program, then click reset and click run, it runs that step. Next direction change is the same process.
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 22, 2012, 02:18:52 PM
Still not sure what you are meaning by manual?
What version of Mach are you running?
Are these tests with the port cable connected or are you still doing it unconnected?
Can you attach your latest xml as I am unable to replicate your problems here so maybe something has changed.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 29, 2012, 06:48:33 PM
I hope you had a wonderful Christmas. To make sure I get the latest XML file Please give me instructions on how to obtain these.. Also I do have the port unconnected. The Version is 2.0

When I first bought this machine it was only half wired for CNC. You had control of x,y,and z with CNC but the spindle's both mill and Lathe, speed and direction were controlled by the VFD. That cycle was termed Manual. There is a method to program the VFD so it changes the P codes to run CNC which of course is the best way to run it. Dan Mauch helped me wire the machine to run full CNC and if you remember, His instructions caused us grief because he had  the red and green wire switched and we couldn't get speed control ect. JT sent me a wire diagram that pointed out the mistake.
Since I was grabbing at straws I tried things in the manual mode not thinking it was only spindle controls and such that it controlled
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 30, 2012, 05:02:08 AM
Ver 2?
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 30, 2012, 11:19:41 AM
Maybe this is what you want. Demo version, R3.043.066
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 30, 2012, 11:31:39 AM
Ah ok thats more like it, still cant replicate your issues here but if you attach your latest xml I will try again.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 30, 2012, 11:53:30 AM
To make sure I get the latest XML file Please give me instructions on how to obtain these..
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 30, 2012, 11:19:08 PM
I have windows XP on that computer
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on December 31, 2012, 03:00:37 AM
Open Mach and on the main page look lower right and you will see the profile name. Look in the main Mach3 folder for a file of that name with a xml ectension.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on December 31, 2012, 05:34:43 PM
try this
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on January 01, 2013, 08:21:12 AM
Well again, although a different xml from previous, I do not have a problem with it. Just to confirm I am understanding correctly, when you command a move from MDI (machine plugged in) such as G1Z1 the axis DRO only goes to 0.001 but the motion of the actual motor continues?

Also you mention E-Stop is the only way to stop it, you do not have an E-Stop set up in Mach (you have it to Port 0 ) so how is your E-Stop connected on your machine or are you meaning something else when you say E-Stop?
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on January 01, 2013, 12:28:14 PM
The problem exists only when you change directions and only in Z. If you comand G0 Z 1.00 it will move right. Comand Z0.000 it will move on the DRO to Z.9999 and stop but the machine keeps running  and nothing on the key board stops it. I  have to use the E-Stop to stop it. Reset the machine and it will finish that comand and will run in that direction. Change directions and its a repeat of the problem.  The machine does this even with the PP disconnected.

My E-Stop is hooked up first as the wiring comes in the machine. First to E-Stop then to a off and on rocker style switch. The VFD power switch and the CNC power switch are both  wired into the E-Stop
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on January 01, 2013, 12:37:17 PM
Ok I have just tried doing the two moves and again it runs fine here so it is almost certain there is not an issue with your xml.
Dont know what to suggest other than find someone with a scope that can look at the pulse.
One other question, cant remember if I asked or not but on Diagnostics page what does the Frequency say and also Time in Int.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on January 01, 2013, 03:22:37 PM
Coded go z50.000 so I would have plenty of time. Before I clicked enter I read the diagnostics. Time in Int was bouncing about 4.3 to 4.7 and Pulse Frequency at 24998. I clicked enter and PF stayed the same but Int bounces between 4.3 and 12.5 . This is with PP unconnected. The change of direction didn't change any readings even when it was stuck 
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on January 01, 2013, 07:31:29 PM
Ok can only suggest you either try another computer or clean that one. The issue is not in your xml as far as I can see as it runs fine here.
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on January 01, 2013, 08:08:44 PM
will  do and thanks and HAPPY NEW YEAR
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on January 01, 2013, 08:10:09 PM
Hopefully it will be for you and your CNC as well :)
Hood
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: johnny on January 02, 2013, 01:27:11 AM
I wll compleatly strip the computer and download every thing new. It doesnt have much on it anyway because I bought it just for this and it was refurbished then.

What version of Mach should I down load
Title: Re: z steper trouble
Post by: Hood on January 02, 2013, 04:29:59 AM
The latest lockdown would likely be the best.
Hood