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Third party software and hardware support forums. => SmoothStepper USB => Topic started by: cornwallav8r on December 08, 2012, 06:36:23 PM

Title: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 08, 2012, 06:36:23 PM
I just installled the USB smoothstepper and the x and y axes are humming smoothly.  But while troubleshooting the z axis, and a few missing steps, somehow the configuration has gotten trashed, and both up and down commands cause downward moves.  Is this stored in the smoothstepper.xml file?  What needs done at this point?  The z used to work both directions....I uninstalled the driver an config files, and restarted, but it didn't help.  Not knowing exactly what;s going on software wise, I am in  a quandary here.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: Overloaded on December 08, 2012, 06:41:18 PM
Are you certain it is a SW issue ?
Might double check all of the connections along the Z dir. conductors.
Russ
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 08, 2012, 06:44:23 PM
I thought that as well.  I manually changed the direction input on the z driver card, 5v and low, and when software stepped, it went the correct directions.  Then ohmed out the 2 lines back to the end of the parallel cable. It's correct, I changed nothing there.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 08, 2012, 06:48:34 PM
Thing is, at first it did work correctly, was just diagnosing the z steps lost. I figured out what it was, it's a low torque issue.  But along the way now, something software went awry.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: Jeff_Birt on December 08, 2012, 07:03:43 PM
Typically a stepper motor that starts going one direction only is a result of a broken wire in the stepper cable or a bad wire in the SmoothStepper cable. If you swap the Z-axis and X-axis motors, at the stepper drive, does the problem stay the same of change axis?
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 09, 2012, 01:19:46 AM
Hmm, weird. It looks like a faulty Intelligent Motion Systems driver, it's a model IM805.  The direction signal acts by dropping the line low, pulling current through an optoisolator onboard.
The series limiting resistors on each line step and direct lines, on the driver's pcb, should be identical, but that one for the step measures 384 ohms, while the other for direction measures 2136 ohms.  That resistor is likely partially open, which would make sense.  Not sure if the optoisolator is also bad, will know soon enough. 
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 09, 2012, 01:30:58 PM
Well I repaired the z axis drive, the tiny current limiting resistor feeding the optoisolator was high ohms. almost open.  Hard to believe I could replace such a tiny part.
Now without the smoothstepper in place, running mach3 without the smoothstepper, all 3 axes operate correctly.   I reloaded the smoothstepper driver, deleted the mach3 plugin and started from scratch and reconnected the smoothstepper.
Now with the smoothstepper in place, every time I try to jog the z axis, I get a Mach3 emergency stop. No movement, The other 2 drives work fine. >:( Powered off, I get an ohmmeter reading between the step and direction pins on the driver of zero ohms.
Something is seriously wrong here, I think the smoothstepper is defective, and in fact is what killed my driver card.
Not a happy camper here.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: Jeff_Birt on December 09, 2012, 01:38:39 PM
I am fairly certain that the SS did not damage your dirver. It simply cannot source enough current to do any damage. Sounds like you have a flakey drive.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 09, 2012, 01:49:30 PM
So then why does the SS not work now? Does it simply need reflashed?  Why does it read a short?  I don;t think an opened resistor caused the SS to fail. In fact I know it couldn't.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 09, 2012, 01:51:54 PM
Clarification, the short ohmmeter reading is reading the ss pins themselves, not the driver. My driver and cabling are fine.  When I disconnect the parallel cable from the ss, the short is gone.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 09, 2012, 01:55:20 PM
From what I gather in the half completed ops manual, this device reflashes on every startup with configuration info from the mach 3 customized xml file. Is this correct?
Is there something I need to do to reset this smoothstepper card  or is it faulty?  thanks
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: Jeff_Birt on December 09, 2012, 02:03:48 PM
The SS does get reflashed each time you start Mach3.

I'm not sure what pins you are referring to on the SS being shorted. A resistor is usually only damaged by too much current, the SS board can't supply enough current through the outputs to cause damage like that though. If there were a short on the SS board, or something was wired wrong, etc then it may be possible. The best thing to do is contact Greg at Warp9 and send the board back. He will take a look at it and repair it.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 09, 2012, 02:08:28 PM
alright will do. thanks.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 09, 2012, 08:59:27 PM
This keeps getting more interesting all the time.  The pins used on the ss to drive the buggy z axis work fine on one of the other axes.
I diagnosed the drive board in question thoroughly, there are no shorts, opens, or other problems, the optoisolator currents for step and direction are 8mA and 7.5mW respectively, almost exactly what I had calculated they would be. No power supply shorts, no other interferences on th ez drive board I could find. 

So I removed the smoothstepper from the installation, reverted back to mach3 alone, and it works fine. As it always did.  The z drive simply opened its resistor for some reason but is now perfect again.  But the smooth stepper doesn't work at all.  It constantly trips out on emergency stop all the time randomly, and won't drive that z axis.  I don't understand it at all. 
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: Jeff_Birt on December 09, 2012, 09:08:49 PM
Does it say "External EStop Requested" in the status line in Mach? If that is the case you just might need to adjust some of the SmoothStepper settings. Take a look here: http://www.soigeneris.com/documentation-content.aspx . Go to teh SmoothStepper section and downlaod the installatiuon tips PDF.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 09, 2012, 09:11:40 PM
Correct, that it does...I will take a look.
But the head scratcher is...since this is open loop, no feedback to the ss gets back, so why when sending data to the z drive does it trip out, but not the same lines to a different drive when i swap it out to feed the x or y drive????   It has no way to know which drive it is feeding.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: Jeff_Birt on December 09, 2012, 09:40:05 PM
My suspicion is that something is wrong with your Z-axis drive that is causing enough noise to swamp the USB communication. The 'External E-Stop requested' message happens when the SmoothStepper is running out of data, if it sees the buffer is running low it will ask Mach to go into EStop mode. Setting the Controller frequency and axis frequencies properly will give you the largest buffer size you need for your set up (last page of PDF). If the problem is noise you are going to have to find the source of the problem.

You can try swapping the Z axis stepper motor for another one, in other words at the drive swap the wires going to to the X and Z axis. If the problem now occurs with X axis motor you know it is in the drive (the Z drive). Make sense?
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 09, 2012, 09:46:09 PM
You make an interesting point about noise...I haven't done anything during this troubleshooting to keep the USB cable away from the noisy interior of the controller box, in fact the box is open.   Will check these various things later this week, thanks for the assistance.  Maybe I should loop a carbon toroid onto the USB cable a turn or two.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: Jeff_Birt on December 09, 2012, 10:10:35 PM
A ferrite core will often help. The problem can also be noise getting back into the PC. I have a small fluorescent light above a workbench in my shop. If I turn it on/off it creates a large enough spike on the mains that it causes a spike on the DC power of the PC's USB ports. The USB keyboard/mouse will cut out briefly and the SmoothStepper will also drop out. I put a line filter before the PC/stepper control box and power the SmoothStepper with an external 5V power supply. If you have a scope you can take a look at the 5V on your USB ports and see if there is a problem.
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 10, 2012, 11:21:41 PM
Ok, I corrected a few things, and now all that's left to fix, is that ugly "External EStop Requested" which happens way too often when i jog the z axis.   Had replaced the z axis cable with a better shielded one, which corrected one problem.  The biggest thing was having the laptop anywhere near the controller box, noise is apparently a bigger problem than one would expect.   Get that USB cable anywhere near the box or the cables, and it trips out.  What besides noise, is the fix to this External Estop Requested issue?   Is it a data throughput error? What can I change to fix it?  
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: cornwallav8r on December 10, 2012, 11:44:00 PM
I am looking at your pdf, the last page you noted....wasn't sure where to start with that math.  But this eve, started calibrating x and y movements, first determining the max acceleration and velocity I could live with, that worked without tripping out, then calibrating the moves to match the dro with a dial pointer.   So now, for those axes, I can set the max step frequency for each axis based on those Mach steps per second indicated in the motor settings window....and then simply adjust the controller frequency to the lowest frequency that still has smooth movement?  And that should eliminate the data overflow or whatever data errors are tripping the drive?  Assuming it isn't a  noise problem...
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: moxietek@aol.com on May 24, 2013, 07:15:11 PM
Warp9   E189010 board
smoothstepper driver Ver 17efb, 37, 2.08.36.
the motor does not lock - the new motor does not lock.
 I reversed the pins no luck
 I swapped the cables on the controller z did not jog but, x would jog either way.
 I have reloaded mach3.
 I reloaded SS driver.
 I am at, with my limit experience looking at the SS driver or board ????
 Mach3 knows and shows jogging. SS shows the movement in mach3.
 I believe z is not getting the signal from the driver.

now mach3 does not recognize the ss
Title: Re: Smoothstepper USB and z axis
Post by: Halfnutz on June 07, 2013, 04:18:56 PM
Just curious, how was this resolved?

I am assuming it has been (or is being) resolved?