Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: jimthefish on November 29, 2012, 04:10:26 PM
-
Hi got a questions. My Dell 580 desktop computer had a major hard drive failure last week, it seemed all the BIOS also got corrupted. I had a hell of a game to reload all my stuff after installing a new hard drive, couldn't even get it to load from the CD. Before the failure I was running Mach3 on it but not connected to my CNC machine, it worked fine. My question is can I still run Mach3 on my 64bit computer for program compiling without fear corrupting my hard drive or BIOS settings. I have no intention to run my CNC machine from this computer, this option allows me to construct the programs in the warmth of my living room on my 64bit. I then use a USB stick to transfer the program to an old 32bit computer in my workshop driving my CNC mill.
Basically I'm asking if Mach 3 software is safe to run on a 64bit computer as a program compiler and proving process providing its not connected to a CNC machine as I dont want to have the same problem.
Apologies if I'm stating the obvious only dont understand 64bit or 32bit options and dont want to repeat my computer failure again.
-
As long as you do not load the LPT driver (sim mode) it should be fine. BUT there are some things in Mach3 that do not work without the driver. SO it all depends (;-)
Give it a whirl,
(;-) TP
-
From what I've been reading, in the run up to ordering my pc in the January sales (!), is that Win7 64-bit is fine as long as you connect to a machine by USB or ethernet. Seeing as you're not connecting to machine, you should be fine.
Either that, or my information is wrong, and I need to crack it before I order my pc!
-
Hi I think your correct. I know nothing about the internal bits of a computer but from what I have been told machines need 64bit processors if the have more than 4GB or more of process memory (most new computers). They have also stopped fitting the old port for the printer using the USB ports for driving the printer therefore our Break out Boards. This means most BOB's will not run from the USB port. Looking on the forum it looks as if smooth step is the way to go (whatever that means). I must admit there seems to be a gap on the Mach forum to help plebs like me understand the intricacies of 64bit v 32bit systems. There must be lots of basic CNCers using old computers that are going to be in trouble in the years to come. All I want to know is if I download the demo version onto my 64bit machine it will not corrupt my 64bit computer, and like you what do I do when my old 32bit computer (with a licence) running my machine in the workshop packs up. Is it going to cost me much to replace the BOB and possibly the stepper drives and D32 motors. I say a prayer evertime I go down to use my 1988 Denford Triac mill and my 2005 Dell computer still work. Its a shame that we might all be in trouble soon.
-
You must use a smoothstepper with a laptop I know that much. If I understand correctly, a desktop will output the movement command until the axis is to stop, but because of its powersaving gubbins, a laptop won't. So what the smoothstepper does is hold the signal up until the end of the move, then tells the laptop its done it whats next? Something like that anyway. As I say, I believe its essential with a laptop.
-
Hi EJ yes I've been told laptops have problems, however I use a Dell Desktop in the workshop, it uses 32bit processing and has a old style printer port for my BOB. I was hoping my home 2010 Dell 580 would replace the workshop machine, but this does not appear to be the fact as its 64bit and does not have the old style printer port (called a RS232 port, I think!). Someone out there will advise me what I need to do in the event of the failure of my 32bit workshop computer or do I look for another old 32bit computer as a replacement. I use my machine as a hobby toll to make model 5" gauge steam trains so use it every other week for an hour or so don't want to have to make expensive alterations for such limited use. Jim
-
I use my machine as a hobby toll to make model 5" gauge steam trains so use it every other week for an hour or so don't want to have to make expensive alterations for such limited use. Jim
Its a small world...thats what mine is for!
I think, and an expert will be along sortly I'm sure, is that in the event of failure of the workshop pc, you would need to change you BOB for one that connects via USB or ethernet, thenyou'll be on the road again.
-
It is the operating system being 32 or 64bit that is the issue. You could install 32bit XP on a new computer, assuming you can get drivers from the computer vendor for XP.
If using a 64bit operating system to actually control a machine then you must use an external controller to control the machine with Mach. That can be Smoothstepper (USB or Ethernet), CSMIO/IP, Galil, DSPMC, Kflop etc etc
If just wanting to use Mach in simulation mode, ie no machine being controlled, then you can run Mach on a 64bit operating system. As Terry mentioned some things will not work correctly in simulation, these things are the functions that use the driver or plugin such as probing. Otherwise it will work fine for testing and proving code.
Hope this helps clear things up a bit.
Hood
-
Hi Hood nice to hear from you. Can you explain smooth stepper to me. I have the origonal D32 stepper on my Denford mill and replaced the Denford stepper drives with 3 drive boards. Will I have to replace the motors and stepper drives if I use smooth step or just the BOB and spindle card pluged into the BOB. Jim
-
The SmoothStepper is a motion controller that connects to Mach with either USB or Ethernet (depending on which one you get, Ethernet one recommended).
The SmoothStepper was designed to be a simple plug in replacement for the parallel port so basically what you would do is disconnect the parallel port cable and connect the SmoothStepper to your computer via Ethernet (or USB) and then load its driver and plugin (both are bits of software) You would then connect the SmoothStepper to your BOB and that should be all you need to do, well maybe a wee bit of setup in the SmoothSteppers plugin but all your existing Mach settings will be fine.
So in summary all you would need is a SmoothStepper and connect that to your computer and BOB.
Hood
-
Cheers Hood your a star, can you direct me to where I can get one from. Jim
-
This is the guy that makes them but his site is down at the moment http://www.warp9td.com/
You can also get them from a few agents.
Jeff Birt is one I know of in the USA and Peter Homann in Ozz, there are others but dont know of any in the UK.
Hood
-
The SmoothStepper go 'in between' the PC and the rest of your machines electronics. You can think of it in a similar way (physically) as adding a parallel port card to your PC to use with Mach. By that I mean with a parallel port card you plug the card into the PC and plug your parallel port cable from the card to the machine. With the SmoothStepper you plug the SmoothStepper into the PC via a USB or Ethenet cable and then the run your parallel port cable from the SmoothStepper to the machine.
If your machine is/was working with the parallel port then it should work without much fuss with the SmoothStepper as well. There are different ways to mount the SmoothStepper. Some guys prefer to mount them in the PC case, some guys in the machine's case, and some folks who have an existing working system and don't want to do any rewiring prefer to use a 'SmoothStepper in a can' which I developed a few years ago: http://www.soigeneris.com/motion_control_and_i_o_boards-list.aspx (http://www.soigeneris.com/motion_control_and_i_o_boards-list.aspx) see the bottom of page.
Hope that helps...
-
Are there any UK suppliers of Smoothsteppers and BOB's that use ethernet or USB? Just thinking it may work out cheaper than paying in USD and then the import when Customs slap their bit on.
-
Not as far as I know.
Hood
-
Thought as much....google had failed me....
-
Hi EJ found this for UK smooth steppers.
http://www.syiluk.com/#!cnc-products/vstc4=smoothstepper
-
Oh well done Jim, I didn't find that one......it looks good to me, no expert though am I, I wonder what Hood will think?
-
Looks to me like it would possibly cost more to get in the UK. Suppose it depends on that price including VAT or not but if it doesnt then its going to be half as much again even if the UK grabs you for customs charges
$280 plus 20% = $338 plus post, if it does already include VAT then not so bad.
If I recall the ESS is $195 then you will possibly have customs charge of £10 ($16) plus VAT so total before post would be $253. Post from the USA shouldnt be that expensive. Thats the worst case from the USA, sometimes you get lucky and things sail through without customs so that would be $195 plus post.
One drawback to getting from the USA is the time of year, likely there will be a slow down due to Christmas post so it may take a while to arrive rather than the normal few days.
Hood
-
Hi Hood the units are in the UK, the USB one is £158 +p&p the earthnet one is £175 +p&p. (click on stepper units) Be interested on you comments on the full £600+ package, it seems a bit steep in price but might be good for a dirty dusty workshop. I have bought stuff from Syil UK they offer a good service and are based in London. As usuall the smooth stepper units are made in China and you can buy them in large batches on a couple Chinese industrial site (who wants a 1000 units !!!!!)
I had a problem with a drive card for a Syil machine for a trainee I was teaching and Hugh (the owner) was great, he just replaced it free of charge. The machines are not my cup of tea and are not a patch on my old Denford Triac but do the job.
-
Jim, yes I saw the price, I converted the £175 to $ to make the comparison easier :) Doing it the other way its the same, $195 for Ethernet SS from the USA is £121 so all depends on whether the UK one includes VAT or not. It would probably work out about the same (USA likely slightly cheaper) if the UK one includes VAT and the one from the USA was caught by customs. If the UK one doesnt include VAT and the USA slipped through customs then USA is a lot cheaper.
Regarding them being made in China, I am not sure, last I knew Greg got the boards made up and populated them in the USA but maybe that has changed.
I would say go with Ethernet, its more expensive but should be more noise immune. I never had problems with the USB one but a lot of people did.
The all in one, is it worth it? Well for me no but for others maybe. You are getting a USB SS, a computer and a monitor with Mach installed so I assume also the operating system. Whether Mach is licenced or you have to pay extra I dont know. So suppose it may be a reasonable deal if you dont want to buy the computer/screen/operating system etc separately but you will be paying a bit extra for not doing so.
As for it being good for a dirty workshop then its no different from any other computer really as it is just an off the shelf eebox.
Hood
-
The SmoothSteppers are designed and built in the USA ;D
I ship them all over the world. Shiiping by USPS will cost about $18 and take about two weeks for delivery.