Machsupport Forum

Third party software and hardware support forums. => CS-Lab => Topic started by: Hood on August 23, 2012, 10:58:41 AM

Title: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on August 23, 2012, 10:58:41 AM
I purchased a CSMIO/IP-S, a CSMIO/MPG, CSMIO/Enc and a CSMIO/IO from CS-Lab a week or so ago and first impressions are very good.

I first saw the CSMIO range of products a year or so ago and liked the look of the specifications of them as they seemed to be aimed more at the industrial end of the market.
The things that I liked were that the I/O were 24v which is much more noise immune and is the Industry standard. There are also Analogue Inputs and Outputs for such things as spindle control, Feed and Spindle override pots etc. The Step/Dir signals are also differential which again is very noise immune and it is something I have used on my machines but have had to make up my own line drivers up until now. It also communicates via Ethernet which again is very robust.

To save me typing out the specs here is a link
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/index.php?m=gallery&s=show&fid=48&sort=&uinfo=CSMIOIPS_6_axis_CNC_Ethernet_Motion_Controller_STEPDIR

I am using this on a small lathe I am retrofitting at the moment, its probably a bit overkill for the wee lathe but I wanted to test it out and see if it lived up to the impressive specifications before I put it on the big lathe. As said first impressions are good, I am just at the wiring up stage but have been testing things out as I go.
The modules are all designed to fit on din rails which  makes things very neat and easy to mount. The IP/S, IO and Enc come with breakout boards and ribbon cables which again are din rail mounted.

I will post later on with what I have tested so far and my thoughts.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on August 23, 2012, 05:58:10 PM
Below is a pic of the modules and breakouts and an additional board I have made up. This board iis needed for me as the CSMIO/IP-S only has spindle control via one of the Analogue outs and it is 0-10v. That is perfect for VFD's as thats what they take but servo  drives usually want a -10 to +10v signal so I needed to invert the signal for opposite rotation. To do this was easy enough, I just used two relays. The other connectors on the board are just distribution points for the 24v. At some point there should be a possibilty to use an unused axis output as a spindle so that would be a better option for me as my drives can accept Step/Dir.
 Anyway I have tested out the spindle and it is very linear and the speed closely matches the commanded RPM, its out by about 15rpm but this will be easy to adjust to get closer by altering the volts/rpm setting in my drive.
 I have the spindle motor drives buffered encoder outputs feeding the Enc module and this allows Mach to see the RPM. In addition the Enc module is used for lathe threading and unlike the normal setups for Mach the encoder is used rather than just the index, this means that if the spindle slows drastically the axis will, if it speeds the axis will and should lead to very accurate threading even on a machine with an underpowered spindle motor. I have tested this out in simulation by altering the spindle override whilst the threading code is running and the Z axis definitely looks like it is tracking the spindle closely but I suppose I will only know for sure when I ge the machine finished and actually cut some threads.
 The encoder usage should also mean that in the future it will be capable of  rigid tapping.

 I also have the MPG module wired up, I have the MPG connected to the differential inputs (can be used single ended if your MPG is not differential) I also have two rotary switches connected to the MPG module, one is to change the axis that the MPG controls and the other changes the multiplication of the axis. It can be set to x1 x10 x100 for people who use Imperial units or x10 x100 x1000 for people like me who use metric. This is the way most industrial  CNC's work and although I am not actually controlling an axis from the MPG at this point it seems smooth when watching the DROs in Mach so hopes are high.
 The MPG module also has 2 analogue inputs that can be used for Feed and spindle overrides but I have these connected to the main controller so I didnt use them on the MPG module.
I also have  7 buttons on my front panel which connect va the 24v Inputs on the main controller, I have a few set up so far, Start, Hold, Stop and setting them up is easy, its just the same as you would normally do in Ports and Pins, you just set the port as 10 and the pin to whatever input number it is connected to.

The plugin is very user friendly and has quite a lot of options, one nice thing is that you set the analogue I/O here and it writes direct so you dont have to set anything up in Mach and you dont need a Brain or Macropump for FRO etc. You also tell the Plugin what the spindle encoder count is and it automatically sends the rpm to the Spindle speed DRO so again no setup required in Mach itself.

I will hopefully get a bit more done in the coming week and will post any updates but its looking good so far.

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: TOTALLYRC on August 24, 2012, 08:15:24 AM
Nice work Hood.

Mike
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on August 24, 2012, 09:05:44 AM
Thanks Mike but the CSMIO mounting method helps a lot keeping things nice and neat :)
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: 762x51 on August 25, 2012, 02:04:47 PM
Hood,

Nice looking installation -

I have one of their CSMIO/IP-M and MPG modules that I ordered to update my EMCO Compact 5PC lathe. I had started on the update but then started having problems with My Defiance Mill's controller (Bridgeport DX-32) so the EMCO project got pushed to the back burner for a while.

I have done some bench testing of the IP-M and ENC modules and I really like CS-Labs MACH3 plugin. Its well thought out and it was really easy to set up.
Like you, I also liked the DIN rail mounting and it makes for an easy, neat installation.

I had originally wanted to use the EMCO's spindle slotted disk and optical sensors for RPM and Index feedback but found the CSMIO/IP-M's firmware didn't allow for this.
I recently wrote CS-Labs regarding this and they have said the firmware in the IP-M was due for update in the near future to add this function. This was very good to hear and will
make the CSMIO/IP-M + ENC a perfect combination for a large number of lathe and mill conversions. Not the cheapest option but a far more flexible one.

CS-Lab also said they were adding VFD PID control to the CSMIO/IP-M  -  ;D
12 Digital In
4 Digital Out
2 Analog In
2 Analog out
NICE!!

Orin


    
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: 762x51 on August 25, 2012, 04:12:22 PM
Hood,

I have tried to post a reply to your original thread but the forum keeps kicking my post back???? Trying again by making a new post...........


Nice looking installation -

I have one of their CSMIO/IP-M and MPG modules that I ordered to update my EMCO Compact 5PC lathe. I had started on the update but then started having problems with My Defiance Mill's controller (Bridgeport DX-32) so the EMCO project got pushed to the back burner for a while.

I have done some bench testing of the IP-M and ENC modules and I really like CS-Labs MACH3 plugin. Its well thought out and it was really easy to set up.
Like you, I also liked the DIN rail mounting and it makes for an easy, neat installation.

I had originally wanted to use the EMCO's spindle slotted disk and optical sensors for RPM and Index feedback but found the CSMIO/IP-M's firmware didn't allow for this.
I recently wrote CS-Labs regarding this and they have said the firmware in the IP-M was due for update in the near future to add this function. This was very good to hear and will
make the CSMIO/IP-M + ENC a perfect combination for a large number of lathe and mill conversions. Not the cheapest option but a far more flexible one.

CS-Lab also said they were adding VFD PID control to the CSMIO/IP-M  -  ;D
12 Digital In
4 Digital Out
2 Analog In
2 Analog out
NICE!!

Attached are a couple of photos of my project - Please keep us up-to-date on yours.

Orin

[modified to add attachment - scottn]
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on August 25, 2012, 04:17:36 PM
That is really good news, I had asked a while back if the Enc module could be use with the CSMIO/IP-M  for threading and they said it could not, looks like they have had second thoughts on it.
It already makes a very nice wee controller for mills and soon hopefully  small lathes that dont require the high frequency step/dir of the bigger brother controllers.

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: 762x51 on August 25, 2012, 08:56:37 PM
Hi Hood...

Here is the question I asked them:

"The EMCO Compact 5PC that I'm converting has 2 simple opto sensors on the spindle - One for speed that reads a 100 pulse-per-revolution slotted disk and one for indexing that reads 1 pulse-per-revolution for indexing. Could I not simply use 2 of the CSMIO/IP-M digital inputs to read these opto sensor outputs and configure them for RPM and Index sensors through MACH3? Having to use the CSMIO/IP-S + ENC module for this appears to be overkill for this simple project."

and here is their answer:

"I think about something for threading in low-budget projects. Currently we have a lot of work with firmware and new functionalities for CSMIO/IP-A and IP-S, but function you're talking about + PID controller for spindle speed(torque control mode) should be available also with near firmware upgrades."

I hope I understood their response correctly -

Orin
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on August 26, 2012, 03:06:11 AM
Ah Ok there seemed to be a bit of a screw up but Scvott has it sorted now :)

I see now what you are saying, they are going to do the threading in the M using the normal means in Mach ie 1  Index pulse. That should be great for a budget machine.
As for not being cheap its actually not too bad if you consider you dont need breakout boards or spindle controllers as well as the motion controller.
Its just a bit of a shame that you cant expand the I/O like you can with the bigger brothers but maybe that will change in the future.

BTW should that not be 6 digital out rather than the 4 you said? Maybe you were thinking of the 4 axis?
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Dan13 on August 26, 2012, 04:29:41 AM
Sounds very good so far. I like very much the way you say the plugin works and the ease of setup there.

Thanks for posting the feedback. Waiting forward to seeing how it works in actual life.

Dan
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on August 26, 2012, 05:09:19 AM
Dan, Graham Waterworth has a IO-M on a wee mill and he said its been working great for a while now.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Dan13 on August 26, 2012, 05:52:22 AM
That's good, Hood. Still want to see what you'll have to say about the threading.

Dan
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: 762x51 on August 26, 2012, 09:24:45 AM
BTW should that not be 6 digital out rather than the 4 you said? Maybe you were thinking of the 4 axis?
Hood

You're right - There are 6 digital outs - 4 solid state and 2 relay contact...... I missed that... :>)
Their manual's I/O listing is incorrect and doesn't agree with the digital I/O connector pin-out.

Regarding threading using MACH3 - I haven't tried it with MACH3 but have read that there have been a lot of issues with that portion of the program.
Do you know if that's been sorted yet?

Orin

Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on August 26, 2012, 10:39:47 AM
Mach3 using the parallel port for threading had issues for some and worked great for others. With external devices it has always worked well as far as I know, certainly does with the Smoothstepper.

I think the problem most had with the parallel port and threading was down to one of two things (or both), one is a severely underpowered spindle for the threads they are trying to cut and second is if they have a VFD that is set in a mode which tries to keep the spindle at the commanded speed. What happens in that case is the spindle slows, Machs driver sees it and slows the axis but at the same time the VFD sees it and speeds the spindle, so Mach sees the speed increase and... well an ever ending loop of bouncing back and forward :D

I never had any issues when I was using the parallel port but then again my spindle could take all I could throw at it and never blink.

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Graham Waterworth on September 01, 2012, 06:55:57 AM
I may as well stick my bit in as well,  Hood used me as a test case for his purchase convincing me I needed one of these, the man is an evil genius   >:D

I have 2 of these units now a 4 axis CSMIO/IP-M and the new and just released 6 axis +/-10v analogue CSMIO/IP-A

The 4 axis is fitted to a mini mill and has worked without a hitch for several months now, the installation was quick and easy as the mill is a very basic stepper driven 3 axis wired for a 4th when needed, home switches and a 0-10v spindle drive. It runs off a ASRock PV530A-ITX 1.8Ghz Mini-ITX Mainboard with 2 Gb ram and a 30Gb solid state drive and WinXP the whole lot was less than 100 quid and it works very well.

The CSMIO/IP-A 6 axis unit is fitted to a 4 axis mill with Baldor Flex drives working +/-10v with 4096 pulse encoder feed back, I have to say the documentation is somewhat lacking at the moment so installation of the software was a bit confusing on a clean install of windows, I am informed the manuals are been worked on as is the automatic installation of the software and new versions are due very soon.  The team at CS_Labs have been very helpful and are very keen to get things right.

The unit is now installed and controlling the XY & Z axis the motion is very smooth and very accurate, the servo tuning is manual at the moment so it was pot luck as to just how good I got the motion, there is an auto tune feature in the setup screen but this is not working at the moment, again a new plugin is due soon with the auto tune working.  At the moment its running off my old Dell laptop but I will be installing the same PC as the mini mill.

All in all I only have good things to say about the controllers and the company, I have just ordered a MPG unit to go on this machine too.

Graham
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on September 01, 2012, 09:42:43 AM
Tell the truth, you are just loaded and needed to splash some cash ;D

Very interested to hear how the Analogue version gets on as you progress. I was tempted to get one just for the hell of it even though my drives can accept step/dir as well as the analogue. Decided against it however as it wasnt ready when I was needing to get mine on the go.

Not much progress for me, have been busy with work as well as other projects (lathe Hyd chuck etc)
Have attached a pic though of the CSMIO stuff from a different view, this is showing it with the door closed and the all in one screen/computer removed so you can see inside.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: willsilvers on September 02, 2012, 11:19:25 PM
Hi, I'm retrofitting an Esab Sabre 3000 burning gantry with Mach3 running on an Itronix gobook using the new CSLabs CMSIO-A ethernet drive controller.  Is there any kind of standard i/o map that Mach3 would like to use?  I've noticed that I can't config the cslab addin from the plugin control and activation tab, get an "Error found, Art Code: 9991, Attempt Recovery?" after which Mach3 closes.  I'm assuming they have something wrong with either the firmware or mach3 addin dll.  Has anybody else had any trouble with this?  I like the looks of the controller and if this works there's probably going to be a few more of these retro's around here.  Makes a cute little installation in the old Vision 1000 enclosure.
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on September 03, 2012, 02:55:31 AM
Are you meaning the monitoring from Plugin Control menu or are you talking about click the Config from the Config menu the Config Plugins?

When you start Mach are you choosing the CSLAB plugin at the start?

Your problems may be because the A version is just out and I noticed Graham said he had problems with the install of the software.
The install of the S that I have was very straightforward so hopefully the A will be the same very soon.

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: willsilvers on September 03, 2012, 08:44:04 AM
I'm trying to set up the i/o, the software seemed to load easily, communication between the computer and the csmio seems to be occuring, as I'm playing around with an estop circuit tied into the first input, but I have no outputs at all.  Monitoring from the plugin control menu seems to be working although I'm assuming that it should be possible to force the outputs from this menu.  In the Mach3 documentation they show being able to configure the plugin from the Config menu--config plugins--click config to the right of the plugin, except the entire column of "config" is yellow and I get the alarm message when I click on that particular one.
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on September 03, 2012, 08:54:17 AM
You can click on Config with the S version but maybe the A version that you have does not have that yet as I know the plugin is very new for it so likely will need an update before you can get access.

Regarding the outputs, you would need to either set it up in Mach or call it from VB to activate it.
Easy way to test is just go into Machs Ports and pins and set one of the outputs up to port 10 and pin 1 then change the active state, the output should switch on/off depending on the active state. Alternatively you could set one up as coolant and that would switch on/off with the coolant button.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on September 04, 2012, 07:11:10 AM
Just talked to Graham and he said its probably you need to install MSChart and .net 3.5.
After that you shouldnt get the errors when trying to get into config.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: willsilvers on September 04, 2012, 12:25:35 PM
Hey thanks, that was the problem.  The more I look into this package the more impressed I am.  Has anyone had any luck dealing with machmotion?  I'm looking for a nice screenset kind of geared towards flamecutting, kind of on a short time schedule.  Is there ultimate screenset any good as far as plate burning?  I'm sure as I play around with this more and become more proficient with the programming I could make my own, but for now I wouldn't mind paying for something that already works.
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on September 04, 2012, 01:54:44 PM
Not sure if the Machmotion screen would any use for flame cutting or not, I think its geared more towards mills.
Plasma screens may be more suited to what you are after but not sure if there are many plasma screens out there other than the default Mach one.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on September 16, 2012, 04:43:41 AM
Just thought I would update this thread as well as my lathe build thread.
I have the controller mostly wired now, have the spindle running nicely and have the Z axis running at 10m/min. I am waiting on a small motor for the X axis coming so may be a week or two before I get that and I am able to test out some actual part making.
 I was playing around with the MPG yesterday and I am liking it very much. It is very smooth in all of the three scales and it does not buffer up the pulses like the parallel port and other controllers do. What I mean by that is I can put it to the max unit per click, which is for me 1mm/click and I can wind the MPG as fast as I like and when I stop winding the axis stops. If trying that with the parallel port or SS or ESS then the axis would continue moving long after the MPG had stopped rotating.
Anyway heres a vid of the MPG in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz62bOHCc_M&list=UUNEcFI4fdD5kV938uchW3sg&index=1&feature=plcp
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: yahuie on October 01, 2012, 04:06:39 PM

The CSMIO/IP-A 6 axis unit is fitted to a 4 axis mill with Baldor Flex drives working +/-10v with 4096 pulse encoder feed back,


Graham


I have some Baldor flex drives that use Resolver feedback and take both step/direction and +- 10 volt control.  I was going to go with another option but am strongly considering the CSLabs products.  Any thoughts on whether I should go with the +- 10 volt or the step/dir control versions?
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on October 01, 2012, 04:16:16 PM
If your drives have simulated encoder output capability then probably the analogue CSMIO would be a good choice. If not then the Step/Dir may be better but you better check what voltage Step/Dir the Baldors require as I think some need 12v or maybe even 24v Step/Dir.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: yahuie on October 01, 2012, 04:35:27 PM
Thanks for the reply Hood.  Why would you go with the analog option? 
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on October 01, 2012, 04:48:20 PM
I am just of the thought that that it may be easier to pick up analogue drives if the need arises in the future. especially with your motors having resolvers.

I am getting a Chiron Mill sometime soon and I am thinking I will go the analogue route. I am not sure what drives I will use at the moment but I do have some that are analogue only and some that can do both analogue and Step/Dir. So if I go analogue then I have the choice of drives, if I went Step/Dir then I would not have the choice.

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: yahuie on October 01, 2012, 04:53:49 PM
Makes sense.  Thanks (for all your posts - very helpful).
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: willsilvers on October 17, 2012, 02:59:48 PM
Hi Graham, do you have a listing of the PID settings for the new csmio/a series controllers? Do you know where I could a guide to help configure my analog drives?
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Graham Waterworth on October 17, 2012, 04:06:39 PM
Start by setting your steps/per and a modest velocity,  there are no real starting figures as every setup is different, I would start with the latest autotune and see how it gets on.

http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/artykul-4-Download.html

Set the axis in the middle of the travel and press the autotune button, the axis will move + and - many times until it finds an optimum setting,  You may need to hit reset and re-run it if it faults.

As a guide my settings for the X & Y axis on my small mill are 16384, 200, 1000,500 and Z is  77000, 87, 1000, 1, but they may be of no use at all on your machine.

Graham
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: TechCNC on October 19, 2012, 06:27:41 AM
2.0 Firmware will be soon available. Soon also wider documentation for CSMIO/IP-A will be ready.

Below you will find short 'step-by-step' description how to tune the PID.

The maximum allowed position error can be adjusted by 'Max Following Error' parameter.

Parameters:
-------------------------------------
kP - proportional gain
kI - Integral gain
kD - Derivative gain
kVff - Velocity feedforward gain
Max I accumulator - maximum vaule of integral accumulator
Max following error - maximum allowable position error

Manual PID tuning is usually performed in the following way:


- set kI, kd, Deadband and kVff to 0

- set kP to low value (~500)

- set Max following error to large value - for example 10000 or so

- JOG the axis and increase value of kP until first vibrations occurs

- decrease kP with about 15%

- set Max I accumulator to 100000

- JOG the axis and increase kI value until vibrations occurs.

- decrease kI with about 15%

- kD in most of cases can be leaved '0'.

- Now JOG the axis and increase kVff value. Observe the position error on the chart while axis is accelerating or decelerating. Find kVff value when error is smallest.

- while axis is switched on, but not moving click icon near 'DAC offset' to automatically adjust DAC offset. This prevents some 'knocks' during machine switched on

- last thing - check the maximum position error value, than adjust 'Max following error' 4 times larger and everything should be OK.
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Overloaded on December 05, 2012, 10:37:19 AM
Happy to see these are working well !
Only wish the "M" was faster than 125k. It's perfect for a current app. otherwise.
Costly jump from $275 to $720 when only wanting the higher 4M speed.

Thanks for starting this topic,
Russ
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 05, 2012, 01:29:05 PM
It is a bit of a shame but its not too bad if using servo drives that are capable of electronic gearing. Normally I dont like electronic gearing but I was considering the M for the wee lathe and was going to put up with having it. Only reason I went for the S version for the wee lathe was the M does not support threading at this time.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Overloaded on December 05, 2012, 01:42:53 PM
I understand you Hood.
I'll be gearing servos w/ 2500 ppr encoders if I go w/the M. Otherwise, I might try the USB-SS I have on hand.
Then again, adding the BoB, Line drivers, missing out on the 24vdc I/O and the analog .... it all adds up.
I also prefer not to use gearing but the resolution is not that critical for this app. Gearing was also not too bad on my mill w/the AB drives.
Thanks
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 05, 2012, 01:54:31 PM
Suppose it all depends on what gearing and screw pitch you had on the machine. With the wee lathe I had direct drive on X with 2500 line encoders and 5mm pitch screws so that would mean I could have got a max  of 3750mm/min which would likely have been plenty but even if not then a 2:1 electronics gearing wouldnt have been too bad. The X would have been worse as its 2000 line encoder, geared 2:1 but only 2.5mm pitch so max rapid would be 1172mm/min Likely fast enough to get  by on the short X but think I definitely would have used the electronic gearing on it.

What really put me off electronic gearing was the big lathe  when I was using the PP. To get the rapids I really wanted I would have had to have about 6:1 if I recall, could only get 45KHz reliably with the PP.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 21, 2012, 02:59:31 PM
Saw a new plugin on the downloads page last night and gave it a go this morning. Tried the threading ( 2mm pitch thread on a 16mm dia piece of mild stee ) and the pullout was instant and it looked every bit as good as any thread I have done on the big lathe, so very happy with it.  For some reason the spindle override is not working so I was not able to vary the speed during the thread to see how it performed.

Overall I am delighted with the CSMIO so far, I have found a few small issues but I am sure they will be addressed soon.
One thing I have found is when going to change any config settings in Mach, make sure Mach is in Reset or you will get things hanging. No big deal as I am in the habit of doing that now but took a few mins to work out why it was hanging sometimes and not others.

Another thing I have found is if you have limits and home switches sharing on multiple axis  it will trigger an E-Stop when the axes home. Having Homes shared between multiple axes also has an issue where as soon as the first axis hits the switch it will not back off but instead the second axis starts homing.
If sharing a home and limits but keeping each axis on its own input then things seem fine, you have to do as the manual states however, disable the Home Switch Safety option in General config.
 As the CSMIO has plenty inputs then sharing would not normally be done anyway and in fact it would be better to have separate home switches as that way you can take advantage of the Index homing capability.

Another thing that I found was if you hit a limit switch then you can reset but cant back off if you have the MPG module. With the module connected I could not select keyboard jogging to try it as the MPG module kept changing Mach back to MPG mode. I found however that if you have a switch in line with the power to the axis select then you can select between MPG and Jog. Once in Jog mode you could then back off the limit no problem.
The manual shows a momentary switch in line with the power to the axes select switch but it doesnt really say why you need it and only says its optional. I never use keyboard jogging so instead of having a switch there I think I will have a switch that I will use as a limit override switch, if a limit is hit and I wish to back off I can press and hold that switch and it will allow me to jog off via the MPG.

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Dan13 on December 22, 2012, 10:27:07 AM
This is great news with the threading, Hood. Thanks for posting. Hope those minor issues get sorted too sometime soon.

Got a CSMIO IP/A with the MPG and threading module last week. Plan to use it on the lathe. Don't know when I will actually get to do this though as I have a lot of work to do first.

What I didn't like from your description above is the lack of ability to use jog keys in conjunction with MPG as I am used to having jog keys. Or is it only when a limit switch is tripped?

Dan
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: 762x51 on December 22, 2012, 10:58:26 AM
Merry Christmas to all

In August I wrote CS Labs asking:

"The EMCO Compact 5PC that I'm converting has 2 simple opto sensors on the spindle - One for speed that reads a 100 pulse-per-revolution slotted disk and one for indexing that reads 1 pulse-per-revolution for indexing. Could I not simply use 2 of the CSMIO/IP-M digital inputs to read these opto sensor outputs and configure them for RPM and Index sensors through MACH3? Having to use the CSMIO/IP-S + ENC module for this appears to be overkill for this simple project."

They replied:

"I think about something for threading in low-budget projects. Currently we have a lot of work with firmware and new functionalities for CSMIO/IP-A and IP-S, but function you're talking about + PID controller for spindle speed(torque control mode) should be available also with near firmware upgrades. "

As I have not seen anything on a -M update, on 5 Dec I wrote:

"Do you have an update for the status of the CSMIO/IP-M firmware update that will add spindle control (speed and index) to the -M  controller for lathe threading?"

Has anyone heard from them regarding this?

Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 22, 2012, 12:20:15 PM
Dan
 Here is a vid I took this afternoon of the Conect threading 25mm Dia mild steel and 2mm pitch, as you can see the pull out is instant. http://youtu.be/8c1sndp-554
Below is a pic of the thread.

Regards the selection of jogging, I had a thought last night and tried it out this afternoon. The rotary switch I am using for axis selection has 12 positions but I had the lock tab so only 2 could be selected (X and Z)I moved the tab round one position so I now have 3 positions on the switch, the last not being connected to anything thus it effectively cuts the power to the X and Y axis select inputs. When I chose that position I was then able to select the Jog mode and use the keyboard to jog.

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 22, 2012, 12:23:41 PM
762x51
There is a 1.900b plugin uploaded on their site, been there a week or two.
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/artykul-32-CSMIOIPM_download.html
Dont know whether it adds threading to the M or not but may be worth a try.

I know Andrew has been ill the last wee while so email response has not been great.

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Chaoticone on December 22, 2012, 01:22:51 PM
Looking good Hood.  Good you used the selector switch for the 3rd switch.  That sounds like it worked out really good.

Brett
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 22, 2012, 02:25:33 PM
Yes Brett work fine but still think I prefer the override switch option, I will likely do it that way as I never use the keyboard to jog my machines, always MPG.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Overloaded on December 22, 2012, 07:47:18 PM
Below is a pic of the thread.
Hood

Hi Hood,
  Could you post this pic again, rotated to show the termination of the thread at the actual area of the tool retraction ?
Also, please mention the RPM used for this sample. (I may have missed it ?)
Thanks for the good news.
Russ
 :)
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 23, 2012, 02:26:12 AM
Will take a pic when I get to the workshop, not sure if I will make it today or not though.
I think the RPM was 1000 but not 100% on that, will check that also  when I get to the workshop next.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Dan13 on December 23, 2012, 03:27:13 AM
Hood,

Threading looks very good! Thanks for the video. In fact, it even looks better than with the SS - seems like it starts a pass quicker than with SS which has some delay (as well as the PP) till it gets in sync with the index.

By the way, your Conect seems a capable little machine, cutting a 2mm pitch thread!

I like the solution you came up with for switching between jogging and MPG. That should be fine.

Dan
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 23, 2012, 04:34:57 AM
Yes I noticed the speed of starting compared to ESS etc, even a big difference from the previous plugin.

I have a wee bit chatter you can hear at the end of the thread but I think that may be due to the temporary way I have the tool block fitted. Originally it had  4 T Bolts holding it to the cross slide but as I moved it out a bit I just used the two front ones. I will modify things later so it is more rigid which should help with the small amount of chatter.

One thing regarding the switch option, it would have been good if it would allow you to use the Jog/MPG toggle (OEM 174) but seems it only allows the Jog Toggle (OEM 245) to change mode. I will have a mess about with it if I get to the workshop today, may manage to get something worked out. Actually thinking about it having the third position set to an OEM trigger and having the OEM as 245 may work fine as you will only ever toggle from MPG so it should never go to Step Jog, well better wait and see I suppose ;D

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 23, 2012, 09:16:25 AM
Here you go Russ, that was Zero Chamfer so probably even nicer if I had dialled some chamfer in.
Oh and was 1000rpm.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Overloaded on December 23, 2012, 10:59:00 AM
That does look really good considering 0 chamfer.
Did you use the simple threading wizard ? or your CAM ?

If you get a chance to do another, would be interesting to see results of a 90 deg. chamfer @ 1000 rpm. (wizard method of radial chamfer)
Also anxious to see if this is in fact applicable to the "M".

Thanks Hood,
Russ
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 23, 2012, 11:21:35 AM
Just hand coded but basically what the wizard would spit out.
Will go do one now and post in a few.
Maybe 762x51 will test out the latest plugin for the M and let us know.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 23, 2012, 11:34:08 AM
Ok heres a pic, wee bit different but not sure if any better, pic is a bit more blurred though.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Overloaded on December 23, 2012, 01:24:33 PM
That does look a bit better, but is still lagging a little bit.
As Graham said early on, you would have to slow the rpm way down to maintain the pitch throughout the retraction (or, very nearly).
This would probably drive you batty  :)(or battier ;D), if you were to cut the same thread at 1-200 rpm.
Just curious.

Yes, hopr to hear from the others as well.

Thanks Hood,
Russ
 :)
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 23, 2012, 06:25:42 PM
Not going  to be great for carbide cutting at that rpm but I will do it just for you ;D
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Overloaded on December 23, 2012, 10:13:47 PM
 :)Very kind of you, thanks.

Just want to be sure this product will do as I expect.
I've jumped the gun on new products before only to be bitten in the ass by them later on ..... or left hanging. ::)
Thanks Hood,
Russ
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on December 24, 2012, 11:05:26 AM
I tried at 200 rpm but afraid the tip got chipped and the spindle was slowing down, when it got further into the cut it actually stalled the spindle so I dont have anything to show :(
 Good thing was the threading kept on track with the slowdown and even sat waiting when the spindle was fully stopped, so that part is still looking good.
I didnt have time today but in a few days I will do it again at the low RPM but this time in delrin so that the tool doesnt chip and stall the spindle.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: jbeech on March 07, 2013, 12:09:55 PM
Hood, anything further on this project?

I'm interested in purchasing CS-Labs for retrofitting my Anilam equipped Goodway lathe (with Baruffaldi 6-tool changer) it's been a joy to follow this thread because I am a complete machine-conversion newby. Anyway, it's my take they offer the optional I/O I'd need to control the turret - is this correct in your view?

Finally, what's the source of the keyboard/MPG you're using?
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on March 08, 2013, 01:32:19 PM
I have been busy with work and also I am retrofitting the Chiron VMC so that is taking precedence, so I havent done much more to it I am afraid. I have fitted home switches (with temporary wiring) and they work well. Machine will move to switches and back off slow like normal but also if you have things set so home switches are activated and stay activated if you keep going the same direction then the CSMIO is smart enough to see that so will just do the slow backoff move.

I have done a few jobs on the wee lathe and everything is working well, the only thing that isnt perfect is the threading and I have found out it is to do with Mach but its unlikely it will be sorted until Mach4. Threading works well just the pullout is slow, so if a radial groove at the end of thread is not a problem then its fine. The threads I reported that were good I found out was because I had an old version of Mach loaded, so something changed in the Mach plugin interface.

Yes you could use the I/0 of the CSMIO to control your turret, it can be done in the macro by calling/reading the I/O

I use various keyboards on my machines, all stainless with trackballs but of various manufactirers, just whatever I can pick up on eBay usually.

Does you lathe have servos or steppers?

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Dan13 on March 08, 2013, 01:45:45 PM
Hood,

What MAch version did produce good threads? Was it 057? Or an earlier one?

Dan
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on March 08, 2013, 02:08:14 PM
it was 022 if I recall, Spindle Override did not work in that version however.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: jbeech on March 21, 2013, 10:00:57 AM
The PDF files are too large for this website and thus, I will be sending them via email.
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: wrieken on April 28, 2013, 05:14:59 AM
I have purchased the 4-axis stepper and 6-axis S series servo controller.

The instructions are confusing. Anyone have a list of EXTRA peripheral items that has to be purchased to connect these things to the drives?

I am using gecko stepper and servo drives on 2 different systems. 1 is pure stepper motor and the other is pure servo motor.

Any help in understanding what peripheral components are required would be helpful.

Thanks


Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on April 28, 2013, 12:36:48 PM
It all depends what ypou want but if a basic setup then you do not need anything extra other than the controllers and a 24v power supply.
If you want to use a MPG then you will likely want to get the MPG module, you can either get the module alone if you have a MPG you wish to use or you can get the combined module and Pendant.
Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: wrieken on April 30, 2013, 03:28:28 AM
Hi,

Thanks for answering that.

However ; the document says I also need ;;

E-Stop, reset buttons (no description) , Pilz safety relay, NC contacts, noise suppression, diodes, fuses, etc.

There is no information on where to get these things ;; do you have any idea?

Thanks,

Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on April 30, 2013, 07:11:12 AM
You do not necessarily need these although an E-Stop button is really a must. As for that and all the other parts you mention that is not really anything you would expect to get with a controller unless you were buying a complete machine retrofit kit.
 As said before it will depend on what you want whether you will need these things and you can get all these things from electrical/electronics dealers, not sure where you are in the word but in the UK places such as Chalon Components, Rapid Online, RS Components etc would all have such things, also eBay is often a decent source although it is best to check with other sources as often eBay dealers are expensive for this type of thing.

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: SigR on July 02, 2013, 07:48:21 PM
Hi All,
I recently hooked up the CSMIO/iP-M.  Have had success on several big jobs.  Couple times though I've had a "lost connection to CSMIO" show up on Mach3. 

Last night I went home with the system halted in the middle of a job that has millions of lines of code.  Halted but not turned off.  At 1am there was a "time out" error that led to losing the connection.  Once the connection was lost the controller no longer had control and the motors ran to the end of the table and just kept on pushing as the limit switches were not regerstering.

Now I can not get the CSMIO and Mach3 to connect.  The little yellow light next to the ethernet cable is on and the inputs that are connected show up slightly illuminated when first turned on but then fade out.  Don't know if the CSMIO is damaged or if there is some other reason it will not connect with Mach3.

Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Hood on July 03, 2013, 06:49:04 AM
Getting Time out errors suggests there is an issue right from the start, whether its your network connection or the IP-M itself I cant say.
Is your power supply to CSMIO putting out the correct voltage, also might be worth disconnecting any I/O and trying to connect again just in case one of them is pulling the power supply down.

If that doesnt help then your  best bet would be to contact CS-Lab and ask them.

Hood
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: boutje on July 11, 2013, 04:03:55 AM
I had the same problem.
After a reboot with the uploader program the problem was solved.
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: mmoe on July 11, 2013, 01:24:13 PM
Boutje,
Do you mean that you reflashed the firmware to the controller?
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: boutje on July 11, 2013, 01:37:22 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: mmoe on July 11, 2013, 06:23:50 PM
I just double checked Sig's controller and it is not possible to reflash the firmware. In this case, the controller won't connect to the computer, so there is no way to send the firmware to it.

When you turn it on, it sometimes flashes the "STAT"  LED in a very quick pulse, sometimes the "STAT" LED stays on but the network LED stays off, and then sometimes the "STAT" LED doesn't come on at all and the network LED slowly turns on from a dim to a bright and them goes back to dim. I think that in this case there is something wrong with the controller hardware itself, so there really doesn't appear to be a way to fix it aside from sending it back for repair.
Title: Re: First impressions of CS-Lab products
Post by: Whurlyburd on January 18, 2016, 02:06:44 AM
Hello Hood,

I am a newbie living in Montrose....not far from you and would like to meet up for a chinwag, if you can spare the time! I need advice on the choice of machine I require for my needs etc.
Im not sure how to PM on here yet.