Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => Galil => Topic started by: AMorris on January 09, 2007, 12:50:35 PM
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Brian,
I am now ready to change from my Gecko system back to an 1842 Galil PCI with full
servo control. Never had good luck running my motors with the Geckos,
my motors like a higher voltage. Anyway, what is the status of the
Galil interface with Mach 3? I am just now starting to play around
with the Galil and Mach. This weekend I am rewiring everything and
going back to my AMC drives. I will be ready for Mach and Galil to
work together and run programs if possible. Have you gotten to the g
code conversions? Can you give me a clue as to what works and what you
may be working on in the future, and is the Galil interface going as
good as you had hoped?
Thank you,
Allen
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Allen,
The Galil is a ver pwerful device but I must say that the protocall is very clunky and it is not fun at all! But with that said I have been able to get it working on most things!
What I have working (On my copy)
1. Motors move (I am getting moves that are on position)
2. Outputs are working
3. Limits seem to be working Soft and hard
4. Homing is working (with or without and index pulse)
5. I can use an axis to output to a spindle 0-10V
What I need to do
1. Find the small bug in the inputs
2. Make softlimits work better (They only start to slowdown when they are hit at this time)
3. See if there is a better way to make the spinlde work.. (I need to be able to ramp the RMP)
4. IF I can get the spindle to work the way I like.. I am going to add rigid tapping :)
5. Add Threading for lathe (I don't have one to test but there are a few out there that are going to help)
6. Add code to revers each axis (Don't think you should have to rewire your machine)
7. Figure out a way to see what Gcode line the gcode display should be on (This is Very hard)
That is about it!
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Brian, can you tell me witch version of galil will works with mach3. I have a DMC-2140, will it works ?
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Any of them that are PCI and ethernet.
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I am using a Galil 2132. Are all the functions for the inputs and outputs working. I am considering using the Mach3 on a new machine we build and the inputs are very important. I have been designing machinery around the Galil since 1983 and have written much custom code for several boards. I would like to keep using Galil but am also thinking about the GRex.
Thanks
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I would use a Rex if there was new firmware... It just is not at a level that I think it should be at ;( We should have had new firmware by now... I hear that it is still getting worked on! :o
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The galil products seems to be more professinal than Grex. Grex seems to be a hobby project ... I don't have money to waste in this. A galil card keep a good value but I don't think so about the Grex ...
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Hey all, I see that a lot of folks read the Galil posts. Sorry I have not posted in awhile. Galil has been running bug & error free free for over a year. Aug 2007 I put in a emachines(Gateway) box on my mill so I could use a PCI card I had obtained. I had been using an ISA card 1730, 1780 just fine but that was on an old P3 500hz box with Win98se. I wanted Winxp pro with faster bus so I needed a PCI card. Like i said MAch3 and Galil flawless!!! Used to use Camsoft always changing something very clunky spent to much time always configuring never trusting the machine.
I leave Alibre with Alibre Cam running on the computer with Mach3 running. Allows me to make parametric changes on the fly with just alt tab. Running VFD for spindle never could run my radio to much noise on line. I had xm radio playing over the internet while doin a drawing and forgot to dissconnect before running a part. Surprise 3000 lines of code all done at speed with the onternet and alibre running concurrently with Galil card. I'd say it;s running well. could not do that with my old Anilam Crusader
David
Happy Turkey Day all
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Hello David,
I am very pleased to hear that the Galil is working for you! We (Kenny and I) have done some more work on the Galil and added MPG's that are done with gearing through the Galil. We should have a new version out in a month or so with updates and a bug fix ;)
Keep up the good work!
Brian
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Can someone tell me if the Galil pliugin download works for them?
I tried downloading it 3 different times and I can not get it to work. On the pc sitting next to the one I am trying to load it on, it works fine. This is with the latest download of Mach and the Plugin.
Thanks for any help.
P.S. When is the new version coming out?
Cutmore
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Can't get what 'to work'? Yu can't get it to download? YOu can't get it to install? It does not show up in Mach? You need to provide much more information?
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Jeff,
Thanks for the reply,
O.K. what does not work? The plugin does not work, at least not on the computer I want to use. (IBM netvista dual core 3ghz 1 mb ram xp)
Mach 3.042 plugin v 3.0
Everytime I load the plugin in to Mach, when I start Mach it gives an error message saying "defective plugin, ignoreing"
I load the plugin by pasting the galil plugin into either the main Mach folder or into the plugins folder(I have tried both), and then click on the icon. Mach will then display a message saying " plugin loaded" and the plugin icon will disapear.
I have another puter right next to this one ibm netvista 2.9ghz same version of Mach same plugin and it works but I can't get galil to recognize the network card on that pc. (Galil dmc2140 ehternet) I also can not get the galil plugin to work on any other pc I have.
Thanks,
Cutmore
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I think this has to do with the Galil driver. I had the same thing happen to me. I installed the Galil terminal program on the PC and that took care of it.
Darek
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Darek,
Thanks for the reply,
I forgot to mention that I already had the Galil termiinal installed and communicating with the controller. The galil controller is registered in the terminal program and the windows registry also.
I know at one point many moons ago, Brian had to re-save the Galil plugin because it was corrupt or something.
Regards,
Cutmore
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Cutmore,
What controller? Which version of the Galil drivers are you using? You want SmartTerm with the version 7 drivers. And what is the version of your Galil firmware?
Connect to your controller via the terminal and do a QZ command and then a ^R^V command (control-R control-V). You may need to select a button to allow control key sequences. Otherwise ^V is the Windows "paste" key sequence. The QZ command will return the Data Record format and the ^R^V will return the firmware version. Also do a MG_DR command. This will let me know how the controller is handling sending the Data Records. Let us know the results.
I bought a DMC-1760 ISA controller from dmerrll a while back. I was wanting to get rid of an old SM-Electronik SM400 controller and use Mach. The problem was that I have analogue servo drives so I needed something to make that tick. The Galil looked like a good way to go. But as you know, ISA bus machines have limited CPU frequencies by today's standards. So I started thinking of ways to leverage the ISA based controller in a remote machine that talked to the Galil drivers on the Mach machine. Much like a Galil Ethernet controller would.
I used OpenBSD and wrote a device driver for the 1760 and then wrote an Ethernet front end that emulated a Galil 2100 or 2200 controller. The results are fantastic! The Galil Windows drivers think they are driving a DMC-2100 when they are actually talking to a DMC-1700! This is not for the feint of heart though. A 1 Ghz Pentium III ISA bus computer will run Mach/ISA-Galil just fine. I was just wasting some time trying to do something something that used to be impossible. ;D
In writing this code and wading through lots of smoke and mirrors, I learned a ton about the various Galil controllers. Mainly what will work with Mach and what will not, and why. So I will try and lay that out for people that are interested in using the Galil plug-in and are struggling with which controller of the day to go looking for.
Any current Accelera controllers will work. Stick with the version 7 Galil drivers though.
Any bus based or ethernet Optima controllers will work. This includes the DMC1700, DMC1800, DMC2100, and DMC2200. In theory, the DMC2000 (USB) may work as well. I just don't know if there would be any issues with USB. But it has all of the other necessary things to work. Use the version 7 Galil drivers that come with SmartTerm for these controllers. Older drivers will cause you big time headaches.
The DMC-18x2 econo controllers will also work. But they don't support binary commands and this will slow things down a bit. It takes about 350 microseconds for a Galil controller to process an ASCII command. This time is saved if the controller can accept binary commands. The Galil plug-in takes advantage of binary commands if the controller is capable.
The DMC-21x3 are like the DMC-18x2 controllers. They might not work with the Galil plug-in because of the way they handle Data Records. Big question mark here.
EDIT: The DMC-21x3 controller will work fine as long as they don't have the 31x3 distributed mode firmware loaded. If you have a 31x3, simply install the latest and greatest 21x3 firmware and you are good to go. Also these controllers, while labeled "Econo", will accept binary commands.
There is also an older version of the DMC-21x3 called the DMC-21x2. The difference is that the x2 controllers use the 100 pin SCSI connector instead of DB base interconnect modules for the x3 models. So you will have to have ICM-2900s for the DMC-21x2 controllers.
The DMC-3415 and DMC-3425 controllers will not work. These are 1 or 2 axis ethernet controllers that can be "chained" together to make a distributed controller that has as many as 8 axes. But the way they do this is through a modified Data Record which is not compatible with the Data Record that the Galil plug-in will want to see. The Data Record is what Mach looks at (via the plug-in) to see if the state of I/O pins and DRO.
DMC-1415 and DMC-1425 controllers will work. But they are 2 and 1 axis, respectively.
A DMC-3425 can be updated with DMC-1425 firmware and it will work. But you are stuck with a 2 axis machine. Same with the 3415 except you will have a 1 axis machine.
The DMC1000 ISA controllers will NOT work. This is because these controllers do not have a Data Record at all. They also do not support binary commands. The Galil plug-in could be modified to support these controllers, but they would most likely be in the SLOW department. Don't waste your time or money on these controllers for Mach use.
None of the VME based controllers will work. e.g. the DMC-1300, DMC-300, or DMC-13x8 controllers. The DMC-300 is ancient and should be discarded immediately. The DMC-1300 suffers the same "no data record" as the DMC-1000's do. The DMC-13x8 is an Optima controller, but the Galil windows drivers have no support for these cards at all. Plus, unless you have a very industrial PC, you will not even have a VME bus, much less a VME bus driver. I did, however, make a DMC-1348 controller work. It's just that it's not feasible unless you have a bunch of VME hardware lying around.
None of the DMC-700 series or DMC-1500 series controllers will work. They are serial communication controllers and they also don't have Data Records. They would be good for making tool changers though. Perhaps driven by I/O logic.
Also be aware that many of the Galil controllers that are floating around are special controllers made for an OEM. Galil provides no support for these controllers. Most of the time, a firmware update is all that is required to get the controller to work like a normal Galil controller. But if there is special hardware mods, you will loose.
And a note about firmware. Use the latest that you can get. This is because there are several versions of the Data Record. The version 4 and up Data Records will work. This is what all of the Optima controllers will have if updated to the latest and greatest.
I have to say that I really like the Galil controllers. They are a well founded company with an excellent reputation for quality and service. Their website provides literally every thing that an end user would ever need and drivers and firmware are available as free downloads. Some other motion controller companies require you to buy firmware updates! And you can call and talk to their support at any time. They are very knowledgeable about their controllers, meaning that they are not just farmed out support.
Thanks go to dmerrll for providing me hours and hours of fun! :)
If I ever get a copy of vs2003, I'll certainly help out on the Galil plug-in. One thing that might be useful is the option to select a different Galil controller that runs a different machine from the same Mach controller.
Steve
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Hi guys,
I have been away since my last post. I did manage to get my DMC 2140 to play nice with Mach3 ;D
Smurph,
I will get the info for you asap, I am using a DMC2140 ( Ethernet) as you know but others may not.
Turns out the problem I had was the version of Galil terminal I had on the pc. I did not have the Smartterm on that pc, and everytime I started Mach it gave me an error saying the gallil plugin was defective.
I installed smartterm and Mach now talks to the galil! Well at least as far as I can tell, I don not have anything hooked to it yet. Now that I have gotten this far I need to buy an ICM 2900 and hook up an analog drive for the next step.
Thank you for all the help,
Cutmore
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Well, I got a copy of vs2003 and started hacking away at the Galil plugin along with Kenny Crouch. Kenny added a bunch of stuff that smoothed things out as well as adding MPG support. I've been working on things that are less visible/exciting like:
1. Adding support for controllers that do not have the rev 4 data record.
2. If there are multiple controllers configured in the Galil registry, you can now choose which of those controllers Mach will use. Previously, Mach only used the first defined controller.
I'd like for all that have the Galil controllers running to help out testing this stuff. That way, we can have a good cross section of results. PM me with your email address and I will send you the plugin DLL.
Steve
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More Galil PlugIn stuff that we are working on:
1. Added axis mapping. Meaning you can now map the Galil D axis to the Mach X axis, etc... If wanted/needed.
2. The GP I/O is now working. However, this will require you to re-wire your Mach "ports and pins" settings. (Not re-wire your machine!)
3. The spindle no longer takes up a Mach motion axis. It uses the Mach spindle instead.
4. Support for the guys driving brushless motors via the commutation on the Galil. (Sinusoidal Axes)
5. Many small "gotcha" things that might pop up under certain events/circumstances are fixed. e.g. The homing bug.
Steve
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I'm curious about #2. The GP I/O including extended I/O was already working. What has changed that requires 'rewiring Mach'?
#3, As I recall the plug-in read the spindle status and drove what-ever axis-output you had assigned to the spindle. What is different now? If you are driving a spindle as a servo (in other words a spindle with feedback) then your using a Galil channel anyhow. The machine I put the Galil card on had a vector drive with a RS422 interface so I just wrote a plug-in to control it digitally and never messed with using the Galil to drive it so I may be missing something here.
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The extended I/O is still working. There never was a problem beyond the input side of extended I/O.
The main problem is that the GP I/O was this:
in = (Input0 & 0xFF) | (Input1 & 0xFF) << 8 | (Input2 & 0xFF) << 16 | (Input3 & 0xFF) << 24;
//first put first 32 inputs in an integer.
for (INT x = 0; x< nSigs; x++) { //check all signals from 0 to max number of signals.
if (Engine->InSigs[x].Active &&
Engine->InSigs[x].InPort == 1) { //if this signal is turned on, and its set to port #1..check it..
if ((in >> (Engine->InSigs[x].InPin -1 )) & 0x01) // if the nth (pin number) bit is active..
Engine->InSigs[x].Activated = !Engine->InSigs[x].Negated; //set it high or low depending on the "low active"..
else
Engine->InSigs[x].Activated = Engine->InSigs[x].Negated; //setting..
}
}
Well... not that piece of code. But pay attention that it is putting 32 bits (pins) worth of data into the input signals. Pins 1-32, right?
Then you get to the outputs.
out = (USHORT)((Output0 & 0xFF) | (Output1 & 0xFF) << 8);
for (INT x = 0; x< nSigsOut; x++) { //check all signals from 0 to max number of signals.
if (Engine->OutSigs[x].active &&
Engine->OutSigs[x].OutPort == 1 &&
Engine->OutSigs[x].OutPin < 16) { //if this signal is turned on, and its set to port #1..check it..
bool Should = Engine->OutSigs[x].Activated;
if (Should) {
t = 0;
t |= 1 << (Engine->OutSigs[x].OutPin-1);
outwordM = outwordM + t;
}
}
}
Notice that the code this time puts the output values into a short (16bit) and then puts them into pins 1-16.
Wait a minute!!!! We already put inputs into pins 1-32! The output code just stomped on at least pins 1-16.
Now hold on to your seats because eventually, the code goes and checks the limit switches and tries to place the values into the limits and home input signals. Without the notion of pins or ports. So in the "ports and pins" settings, these axis limits and home input signals need to be enabled. But what port or pin did the user set them to? If they left the port and pin at 0, then all would be ok. But if they mapped them to port 1 and the parallel style pin mapping, all was not going to be ok.
Th new code sets up an explicit pin map. This requires you to map the input and output signals in "Ports and Pins" in a prescribed manner which prevents outputs stomping on inputs which may get stomped on by the axis switches.
// Our pin layout is as follows:
// 1-6 axis pos limit (XYZABC)
// 9-14 axis neg limit (XYZABC)
// 17-22 axis home input (XYZABC)
// 25-32 general inputs 1-8
// 33-40 general inputs 9-16 (available on controllers > 4 axis, otherwise they are logic 0)
// 41-48 general outputs 1-8
// 49-56 general outputs 9-16 (available on controllers > 4 axis, otherwise they are logic 0)
As for the spindle, the old configuration dialog only gave you the choice of setting up the spindle on the first six axes, which took up a Mach motion axis leaving you only 5 Mach axes to configure. It was just a configuration dialog issue, the spindle code was not an issue.
I guess you are JTB in the code. We need to talk and see if we can get the extended I/O input section working.
Steve
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I think the problem is your confusing the logical constructs inside Mach (like limits and Inputs1-16, Outputs 1-16, etc.) These have nothing to do with the LPT Ports&Pins. Using the Ports&Pins you map a PHYSICAL LPT I/O pin to a LOGICAL construct inside Mach, your mapping Real world I/O to Machs internal registers for keeping track of the state of the machine. When you are using another I/O device like the Galil or SS it is the driver's/plug-in's responsibility to map the real world I/O from the device (NOT the LPT) to the same logical constructs in Mach. If you then turn around and try to map the LPT pins to the same logical constructs inside Mach you have told Mach to get the same information from TWO different places and all you get is confusion.
Engine->InSigs- and OutSigs
- are arrays that represent the state of what is labeled as Input 1, Input 2, etc. They have nothing directly to do with the LPT pins BUT though ports and pins you can map an LPT pin to one of these array elements. So as Mach goes through its loop it looks at the LPT and copies what ever state that physical pin is in to that array element. If your using another control device like the Galil, the plug-in is mapping the control devices state for that signal to that array element.
Port 0 in Port and pins means 'not a real LPT', 'the signal comes from elsewhere'. The Galil plug-in only cares about the check-boxes that have to do with being enabled and whether the signal should be inverted or not. If you have an external control device and set the port to anything other than port zero then you'll get garbage.
I think the current implementation of Ports&Pins is dated and only causes confusion when using something other than the LPT. Hope that helps...
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Jeff,
You are right, it is confusing. But I have written an I/O plugIn that use ports other than zero. In fact, you can set the port to 10 if you wanted to as long as the signal mappings in "Ports and Pins" agree with the PlugIn. With the Galil code, it had the notion of port 1 for the GP I/O. See the Engine->InSigs[x].InPort == 1 in the code. It was the limits that had no notion of ports and pins. Which was fine as long as none of the limits were mapped in ports and pins. If they were, there stood a chance of getting the real signals overwritten with whatever was mapped in ports and pins.
All I am saying is that the new pin layout provides a means of ensuring that no signals get stomped on. And that was a very real possibility with the old way of doing things. It may have worked before, but it works better now. :)
Steve
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The issue comes about because your mapping a real I/O port (LPT1) to the same registers that the Galil is writing to. Ideally Mach would just disable setting the port to anything but zero when using an external motion card.
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I don't know... I think the way Mach does it now is a very flexible way of doing it. But with flexibility comes complexity sometimes. :( And that is true with the Galil PlugIn as well. It is getting more complex, but definitely more flexible. We need a way to map your ext I/O so that it can be configured to work with all configurations/PlugIns. But geeeees what a job that would be. Talk about getting complex.
What are you using your extended I/O for?
Steve
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Hey Steve and Kenny,
I tried to compile the 3.0 source from the cvs, and I get this error:
Project : error PRJ0019: A tool returned an error code from "Performing registration"
any clues?
it is the only error I am getting.
scott
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Scott,
It's trying to run regsvr32 on the resulting DLL. Look in the project properties, build events, post build events and you will see what is going on at the end of the build. I'm not sure if the DLL even needs registering, but there it is. It may be a path problem.
Steve
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well it will compile now, BUT......
It will not load, as I load Mach3 I get a .dll Plugin defective warning, followed by a "galil.dll" plugin defective and it says ignoring......
when I go and try and find it to enable it, it is not in the plugins list, since it has been ignored......
I dont know why it is saying it is defective, it compiles well, no errors.
scott
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Hey Scott,
I had this happen to me. I installed Galil smart terminal and it cured the problem.
Darek
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Steve & Kenny, (and Darak),
Kenny I put the galil.dll you sent me into mach3 plugins, Darak I downloaded and installed Smart term 7.
We are a little closer, but still no cigar..... I can now see the Galil plug in as an option in my plugin config, BUT!!! As soon as I enable it
it CRASHES Mach instantly!!!! I get the choice to debug, or retry, or close, but no matter what choice, it dies.... I tried it several times...
Some possible issues from my end that may be causing the crash are:
1). I dont actually have a Galil Card hooked to the Laptop since I am just trying to get the plugin to run.
2). Unfortunatly, I have a new laptop, since while in TX last week, my laptop dropped and died.... I had to goto
best buy and get another one to complete my job there. My ONLY choice was a Vista 64 powered Laptop there was not
any 32's and definatly no XP.........
Since I was running Vista 32 on the old laptop, I got Mach3 working and VS2003 working again on it, pain in the ass work around
but do-able.
If I have to have a Galil Card attached, then just let me know and I will shut up, for now until I get one. BUT, I am stuck with the new Laptop
I did find out that if I HAVE to, I can "Down Grade" to Vista 32, since the laptop I bought has drivers avail for both 32 and 64 systems.
Let me know,
scott
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Scott, you need to have a Galil card installed. The plug-in asks the Galil driver for the address of the first installed card. My guess is the it is not handling the case when it gets a NULL pointer returned and so it crashes. As 90% of the plug-in involves trying to talk to the card it would be a mess trying to see if a card actually existed in all those cases. Probably a check could be put in after the request for the card address and a flag could be set to indicate a card was not found. Then the update loop could be skipped if a card was not present. It wouldn't crash that way but you also couldn't do anything with it.
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The latest plugin has a listbox where the desired controller is selected. Naturally the card must be present and talking with SmartTerm. If that works, then select the plugin, wait for it to time out as there is no card selected, choose the desired Galil controller, and proceed with the rest of the configuration. This is new stuff in the latest plugin only.
Kenny
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Version 4.0 of the Galil PlugIn has been released. You can download it from the PlugIns download section.
Direct MPG support - The smoothest MPG jogging you will ever see!!! (Kenny is the man!)
Axis mapping - Allows sinusoidal commutation axes to work plus greater freedom while commissioning the machine.
Smoother user interface (DROs and toolpath).
Probing support - G31 probes are now supported. (However, the 3d probing plugin is not supported.)
Choice of two motion modes - Linear interpolation and contour mode. You can choose which one works best for you!
Each different Mach profile can use a different Galil controller, if required.
Accelera (the latest and greatest from Galil) are supported.
Along with the PlugIn, there is a PDF user manual. Be sure and read it as there are differences in the way input and output signals are handled (Ports and Pins) as compared to the V3 Plugin.
The Probing requires a special setup and it is not in the documentation as yet. I will try and get that documented as soon as possible.
Thanks to all who tested this Plugin!
Steve
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Version 4.1 of the Galil Plugin has been released.
It corrects issues when running high encoder counts. This one is capable of running 700 IPM with an encoder count as high as 32768. It may go faster, but my motors are maxed out.
We will be working on threading and tapping now. It will all be theoretical, as I don't have a machine that will do either. But that is the next item on the list.
Steve
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Version 4.2 of the Galil Plugin has been released.
The main addition is analog input support.
Steve
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Version 4.3 of the Galil Plugin has been released.
Encoder based spindle control.
Custom Notify messages. This allows sending Galil commands to the controller with the VB NotifyPlugins() function.
Fast feed rate override and feed hold.
Slave homing options.
User configurable Extended I/O (experimental).
Steve
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Version 4.4 of the Galil Plugin has been released.
Fixes a jog movement error when SoftLimits are enabled.
Adds the capability of overriding the limit switches if the LIMITOVRD signal is active.
Probing improvements.
Steve
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It's probably very obvious if you've been here a while, but where can I download it please?. I have searched here but there are just too many hits.
Richard
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Of course I hadn't looked in the one most obvious place... My embarrassment is doubled by apparently being unable to edit my original post after a certain amount of time :)
Richard