Machsupport Forum
General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: ardor on January 03, 2007, 10:04:32 PM
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Here I go. I've run this for years.....'till the control died.
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Control cabinets
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So far I have loaded Mach3 R 1.84.000 into an old box and have been messing around with it. (That was the lockdown when I downloaded)
Purchased a 17" LCD and a touchscreen kit.
Will be getting a Dell pentium 4 1.4g to set up for real.
Bought an extra printer port for the Dell.
Entries into the Mach3 so far. (thinking that I can use the .xml files in the new setup)
Spindle setup: Min speed 0, Max speed 6000 (5hp 7800?rpm spindle motor, that's what the advertised max spindle speed is and the best guess I could get on the pulley ratio. hard to measure accurately without a teardown)
Disable spindle relays: checked
Disable Flood/Mist relays: unchecked
Use Spindle Motor Output: checked
PWM: checked
Not sure what to else to do on the Spindle setup dialog.
Motor Tuning: The ball screws are 5 turns/inch
The encoders are 635 pulses per rev 1:1 to the screws
3175 steps per inch
Velocity 399.24
Acceleration 78.346457
I figure I'll get this running pretty quick, soon as I find the answers to a few hundred questions.
NEXT:...... Figure out what the questions are. ;D
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You'll be fine. There is a lot of people here willing to help.
Brett
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I have a mill that is just about like yours :) I wish the head of mine was like that but the base is the same. I put AC brushless servos on the mill, man is that thing FAST! It is 1.34 Hp per axis and I took the belts off the X and Y axis. I get about 500IPM and it will move a .00002 inc (only based on the Encoder,Didn't check to see if it was true). I also got a 10" 4th axis for it :) Nice mill, I think you are going to be happy with it!
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That's good to hear. Something tells me he likes to go fast. ;D
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I have a mill that is just about like yours :) I wish the head of mine was like that but the base is the same. I put AC brushless servos on the mill, man is that thing FAST! It is 1.34 Hp per axis and I took the belts off the X and Y axis. I get about 500IPM and it will move a .00002 inc (only based on the Encoder,Didn't check to see if it was true). I also got a 10" 4th axis for it :) Nice mill, I think you are going to be happy with it!
These servos are ferrite brushed. Handbook says rapids are 400 ipm. Torque is 4.5 Nm, I think that's 637 in/lb. Hope that comes out to be around 600 Hp. ;D
I printed out the manual and have read it a few times. Been reading forum posts ad infinitum. Now have I/O (Information Overload).
My integrator pal, the famous/infamous Mike Pearman of NC Repair, is coming over today to laugh at me. If I scmooze him right he might even help.
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Nice machine. Kinda built like a Bridgeport Mk2 Interact.
You'll be ok with the brushed motors, if your drives are still ok you may be able to reuse those too.
Wayne...
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Nice machine. Kinda built like a Bridgeport Mk2 Interact.
You'll be ok with the brushed motors, if your drives are still ok you may be able to reuse those too.
Wayne...
The drives were working OK when the control went south. At least I hope that's what my problem was/is. None of the axis would settle to light up an "in position" on the display. If I tweaked the pots on the drivers I could get it to work to run one or two parts.
How unsettling.
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I changed out the drives and motors because i wanted the mill to run everytime I wanted it. Not to say that I can't have made the brush motos work but I just wanted to have a good machine that I could cut and not muck with. TI cost me about 1300 and axis for the drive motor and cables per axis and if you have been making parts you know that is not that much money for something that you need to have running all the time. On the other hand if you are at home and making things for fun OR you just like to work on things... Get some parts and see how cheap you can get it to run :) I have done that in the past and had a great time working and learning 8)
What every you do please keep the 400 IPM ;D
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Got my Dell back from my daughter & have loaded Mach 3 R1.84.002.
Copied the xml file from the other box
Bought licenses from Newfangled for Mach & Newfangled.
Ordered this board from Ed Gilbert
Homing Accuracy and High
Speed Opto Isolation from
the Parallel Port
Should be here soon. ;D
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Are you going to use one of these with the original drives?
http://www.skyko.com/products/
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Are you going to use one of these with the original drives?
http://www.skyko.com/products/
I thought that the board from Ed wouldn't need anything else, that it could work with the original drives. Am I wrong?
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Depends what the original drives are, if they accept step and direction signals then they will probably work, if they need analogue signals then you will need either different drives or the pixies etc.
Hood
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Depends what the original drives are, if they accept step and direction signals then they will probably work, if they need analogue signals then you will need either different drives or the pixies etc.
Hood
OK, how do I figure out what the original drives need?
Your keeping me busy between this thread and the touchscreen/lathe.
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Well you are going to have to find their specs. They kind of look similar to the ones that were in my Lathe, they were HiAks, if they are then I think they are analogue. Find the specs and you should get that info, then if they are analogue the pixies should work for you and it would be cheaper than getting new drives, also you know these drives are suited to your motors so best to try and keep them. I have no experience with the pixies so it might be worth doing some searching on CNC Zone to see what you can find out.
Hood
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Darek aka Hillbilly has a mill just like mine, he used to do retros and has given me some info lately. If he doesn't see this I will try to get in touch with him.
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Dont wait, send him a PM ;)
Hood
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The drives will be analogue velocity signal or at least normally on commercial machines they will be 99.9% of the time.
If the drives are good, then you will need some data and 3 of the Skyco cards to convert step/dir to a velocity command . These seem to have a good reputation, and are cheaper than most alternatives.
As Brian said above you could go the whole hog and put Brushless drives and motors on, but that will cost a fair bit. I see his point, but don't really agree that it's mandatory to making a machine reliable. Brushed systems are equally reliable, but never quite as fast and do every few years require their brushes changed.
400"/min is doable with brushed motors as your original setup proves. Going much faster would be pretty pointless and scary on an open machine like yours, I'm used to 1500"/min machining centres and even they make me twitchy sometimes!
The limiting factor on your speed will be the resolution of your encoders and the availble pulse rate from Mach.
Have you looked to see what encoders you have?
Wayne....
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Have you looked to see what encoders you have?
Wayne....
The encoders are Sumtak opticoders. 635 p/r 0.200" lead on the screws 3175 pp inch
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635?? Well thats going to be 2540 pulse per turn of the ballscrew or 12700 pulses required per inch. Quadrature encoders output 4 times their rated lines per rev value. 635 cant be the total count as 635/4 is not an integer.
So at Machs max pulse rate of 45Khz for the printer port you will get (45000/12700)*60 = 212"/min. at 25Khz 118"/min.
I think you may have to eventually go for an external motion device to get back your 400"/min, like the G100 or NC-Pod or simiilar. Or lose some resolution and use a drive with a pulse multiplier.
Wayne....
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Here's the part # off the encoder 9006-2257-635. Maybe 2257 = pulses/rev? Darek has worked with these, he said 635 was the lines/pulses/count don't remember which. He also mentioned that it was a bast**d/non standard. >:(
Mostly I do small parts, really don't need 400 ipm, 200 will most likely be good enough.
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635 Although on 1st look seems pretty weird. but if yo look at the numbers you end up with, it makes sense on an Imperial ballscrew machine.
12700 (12.7mm = 1/2") 25400 (25.4mm = 1")
Wayne...
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635 Although on 1st look seems pretty weird. but if yo look at the numbers you end up with, it makes sense on an Imperial ballscrew machine.
12700 (12.7mm = 1/2") 25400 (25.4mm = 1")
Wayne...
So, now in motor tuning I put 25400 in for steps/inch? That gives me a max velocity of 106
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Your steps/inch will be 12700
635 x 4 = 2540 (Quadrature output of Encoder)
2540 x 5 = 12700 (5 tpi)
That will give you close to the figure I quoted above at 45Khz.
Wayne....
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Your steps/inch will be 12700
635 x 4 = 2540 (Quadrature output of Encoder)
2540 x 5 = 12700 (5 tpi)
That will give you close to the figure I quoted above at 45Khz.
Wayne....
As you can see, I am easily confused. Plugged that in, now I'm unconfused...............temporarily. ;D
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I was just running my eagle from an NC pod and you are going to need more KHz then that can give :( I could only get to just over 130 IPM and had to reduce the PPU to 10,000 to get 427 IPM I was running at 25000PPU and 500 IMP with the G100. This machine gets more hardware then most.. it is the test bed that I run all the hardware on :)
I have 50,000 steps per inch when I done have a step multiplier set in the drives.. that is the best I can do on the mill that I test with :(
Just wanted to tell you that there is a 75KHz limit on the NCPod... If you get a Galil it is only limited to the encoders and I think it is about 13MHz that it will read them at. It is a Nice fast way to go if you have the hardware that needs it. You could run your old drives with a galil too...
Better then that is the Delta Tau stuff that we will soon be programing for... I think they will take in up to 40 MHz on the encoders and output at 4MHz if you would like to run step and direction... The PC104 will also run in velocity mode and torque mode as well.
Well that is about all I can tell you about the things we are working on getting running... as you can see there is going to be GREAT speed in the future with true closed loop! IT just takes time for us to get the work done
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Brian
There is a chinese motion control card coming on the market sometime over the next few months.
Some of the features are as copied from the Datasheet below Cost is said to be several hundred dollars.
Wayne....
32-bit PCI bus, Rev. 2.2, 33MHz
􀂗 Pulse output r rate up to 5MHz
􀂗 6 Pulse/dir output modes: OUT/DIR, CW/CCW etc
􀂗 2~4 axes linear interpolation
􀂗 2 axes circular interpolation
􀂗 Multi-axis continuous interpolation
􀂗 Position/speed change on-the-fly
􀂗 13 home return modes and auto home search
􀂗 Hardware position compare and trigger with
auto-loading FIFO
􀂗 High speed position latch function
􀂗 Programmable acceleration and deceleration time
􀂗 Trapezoidal and S-curve velocity profiles
􀂗 28-bit up/down counter for incremental encoder
􀂗 Multi-axis, simultaneous start/stop
􀂗 Programmable interrupt sources
􀂗 Supports up to 5 cards in one system (20 axes)
􀂗 Hardware backlash compensator
􀂗 Software limit function
􀂗 Easy interface to any stepping and digital servo
systems
􀂗 All digital inputs and outputs are 2500VRMS
isolated
􀂗 Manual pulser input interface
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Brian
Thanks for all the info. My $ are limited. I just ordered the breakout board. Now I have to wait 'till I can order the pixie's. I will get along with whatever these will accommodate and send Santa a wish list. ::)
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Wayne,
That looks like a nice card :)
ardor,
I know about the money thing :( In the past I would save a month to buy a drive so I could test to see what I liked the best...
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The head on mine is different than yours also. It has the variable speed pulleys. There were M codes that basically run the speed adjustment from one end to the other with an air motor in high and low gear ranges. This provided 4 separate ranges and the spindle inverter varied the speed with in them.
Example:
M41....60-165
M42....166-499
M43....280-1,469
M44....1,470-4,640
The inverter speed control is analog 0-10v also. I plan on doing away with the PLC. It was setup to handle the few M codes. The Original control was setup to do a MST transfer function to the PLC.
Darek
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Your setup is much like the one that I have on my eagle :) I have a DL06 with an analog card running the VFD.
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Mine has a larger motor on the X axis, which I thought was unusual. They are all made by SEM.
Darek
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Now I'm getting ready for the pixie's. I have taken a 300W power supply out of an old computer. I want to use it to supply 12v+ and 5v+ to the pixie boards.
The guys over at the skyko forum say that it should be plenty to run the boards. I posted this question there, but they aren't as active as we are here.
Any ideas how I can turn it on without being connected to a mobo?
When I plug it in and turn it on the 5v leads are active.
onsa
Edit: Breakout board just arrived. ;D ;D ;D
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Think its the green wire to the ground next to it in the ATX plug but will get back in a few mins with a definitive answer.
Hood
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Yes green wire to any of the grounds(BLACK) next will switch on the PSU, you will need a latching switch because as soon as you release them the power supply will stop.
Hood
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Yes green wire to any of the grounds(BLACK) next will switch on the PSU, you will need a latching switch because as soon as you release them the power supply will stop.
Hood
It has a switch next to the 110, so I'll connect the green to a black. Switch off = shut down, switch on = go.
OK?
This is handy http://www.helpwithpcs.com/courses/power-supply-basics-inc-pinouts.htm
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Wayne,
That looks like a nice card :)
Brian I got one reserved for me to play with when they are available. Want to take a look at this option then? Might just be a viable alternative to the Galil cards.
Wayne...
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It has a switch next to the 110, so I'll connect the green to a black. Switch off = shut down, switch on = go.
OK?
If you are meaning the switch on the back of the PSU then you will need to undo the mains connection on it and join them together internally, then you could use the switch for the power on and ground wire on the ATX connector. Personally I would leave the switch the way it is and just add another switch or you could even just cut the green and black wire and connect them together permanantly and control the on/off by using the mains switch on the back of the PSU. Another option would be to just put a small jumper wire into the ATX plug, this would then be easy to remove if you ever needed to put the power supply back into service for a computer.
Hood
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Wayne do you have a link that I can have a look at? Art and I have to get the delta tau stuff up and running but after that :)
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I thought I was going to buy 4 pixies. Reading another thread I'm now wondering I should get 3 pixies for axis and the spindle control board from CNC4PC? Or Bob.
Bob?
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Wayne do you have a link that I can have a look at? Art and I have to get the delta tau stuff up and running but after that :)
Brian
Here's a link to the manufacturers page on it.
http://www.leadshine.com/eBusiness/EN/product_detail.asp?catalogid=16&productid=86
Wayne...
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That thing looks great if it works. Too bad it doesn't have one more axis!
Chad
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Has Bob given any indication when his new spindle speed board will be available? ???
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That thing looks great if it works. Too bad it doesn't have one more axis!
Chad
Chad, Why would you want more than 4 axes for linear or 2 for circular? This is not rhetorical, I am still on the steep part of the learning curve :).
Thanks,
Bill
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I am working on a 5 axis router. x y z c b. The router I am building moves in three axis like a normal one and it has a head that pan and tilt to get all around a complex curved surface, like a car body...
So I need more than 4 axis ;)
Chad
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Chad you are looking old today ;)
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Ohhhh.
Thanks,
Bill
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Brian: I am feeling old too..
0:
Chad
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Getting parts installed
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Here's the Touch Screen
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Computer with spare power supply. Gonna stick that inside the control.
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Breakout board, Pixies & spindle board. Those 3 grey wires are the leads from X,Y,Z encoders. Sure wish I knew how to hook up all those pretty wires on the end of those leads.
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'Nother shot of the boards
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Getting stuff from outside to inside.
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Looking good, looking good. :)
Brett
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I notice that all the jpg's in this thread are 0 kb. I understand that there is a 4 pic limit per post. If there is a limit about total pics I was not aware and apologize.
Ashby
Edit: 3/24 Fixed that. Put 'em back.
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I also wondered what I did?
My post are gone.
Darek
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The problem is that we moved to a new server and in the move lost 2days of post :( The good new is that we only lost 2 days!The hits per hour got us kicked of the other server and we are now at a place that we can buy the server and do anythiing we like! So this will be the last time we have this problem...
Sorry and we are working on fixing it
Brian
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Brian, Thanks for the heads up.
I was worried that I had been a bad boy. Well I am bad, but that's a different story.
DAREK
My Pixie 100's want to send, enable, ref+ and ref-.
>>IF <<this is where those signals go it would be nice if the pretty green wire was enable and the other two were plus or minus.
I've been looking at the drawings 'till I'm cross eyed, I can find those three, but I can't figure which is which.
Ashby
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The J3 connectors supply low voltage to the drives from the small power supply to the right of the drives.
YELLOW = +15
GREEN = common
BROWN = -15v
The plug on top of the each drive has two shielded cables going to it. One is the tachometer signal from the motor and the other is the reference signal from the CNC.
The drives were not wired with an enable signal. The high voltage power supply for the drives was turned on and off for that. SERVO RESET turns on the high voltage. E-STOP, OVERTRAVEL LIMITS and OUT. SVO-ON from the CNC will either keep it from enabling or shut it off while enabled.
The OUT. SVO-ON should come from your Pixie's enable now. The charge pump would also be wired here if used.
Darek
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The J3 connectors supply low voltage to the drives from the small power supply to the right of the drives.
YELLOW = +15
GREEN = common
BROWN = -15v
The plug on top of the each drive has two shielded cables going to it. One is the tachometer signal from the motor and the other is the reference signal from the CNC.
The drives were not wired with an enable signal. The high voltage power supply for the drives was turned on and off for that. SERVO RESET turns on the high voltage. E-STOP, OVERTRAVEL LIMITS and OUT. SVO-ON from the CNC will either keep it from enabling or shut it off while enabled.
The OUT. SVO-ON should come from your Pixie's enable now. The charge pump would also be wired here if used.
Darek
Darek
Thanks
We should collaborate on the production of an E book.
"Mach to Anilam for Dummies"
You can be the author....................I'll be the dummy.
From the above I understand that what I was hoping the J3 connetor was about is wrong. Now I'm struggling to figure out where the wires from the Pixies need to connect. I'll re-read this a couple of hundred times, see if I can get it to sink in. I'm gonna look for something labeled OUT. SVO-ON. Then see if I can find someplace to put the Pixie ref+ and ref-.
Appreciate all your help.
Ashby
Edit: I forgot to mention that I am easily confused.
Edit: So I should put ref+,ref- from the Pixie's here?-->>>"the other is the reference signal from the CNC."
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COOL MACHINE,
I LOVE MACH 3 WITH TOUCH SCREEN ON HURCO KM,ARE YOU GOING TO SELL 3-BRUSHED MOTORS THEN?WHAT SERVO DRIVES ARE
YOU GOING TO RUN,I LIKE THE RUTEX FOR THE PRICE THEY SEEM TO BE ONE OF THE MOST PROFESSIONAL.
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Just seen where you edited your post. Yes you are correct.
Here is a picture of the original card cage. (X,Y,Z & 4th) are from the encoders. (To Drives) is the +/-10 command signals for X,Y & Z. (Spindle & 4th) same as (To Drives). The top plug on these boards are the I/O.
This is the Pin out for the (To Drives) & (Spindle & 4th Axis) plugs.
1 GND
2 X Ref
3 GND
4 GND
5 Y Ref
6 GND
7 N/C
8 GND
9 Z Ref
10 GND
Hope this helps.
Darek
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Darek
So, now the X,Y,and Z encoder leads from the above are going to the breakout board & on to the Pixies. The "To Drves" are the leads on top of the drives where I attached the ref +- from the Pixies. Still can't understand where to put the enable and error wires from the Pixie.
You can see in the attached that I mounted a power supply from a PC and the power supply that was on top of the card cage. I also conneted a NO mometary push button to the P7 plug on the 801 board (reset function) and left the original Estop connected. The wiring on the BO board and Pixies is done. Turn on the power to this cabinet and start the PC, all the LED's light up, at this point Estop and reset do nothing. Now I need to get the drives, PLC, and spindle drive powered up.
The servo motors on this sucker are 140v 75amp, Teknix, Rutex, Geko don't go that high. I really need to use these drives.
Some progress and a long way to go.
I downloaded a 102 page PDF manual for the PLC and 150 page PDF for the spindle drive, Servo Dynamics has put the info for the drives in the mail.
If Mach is going to tell X,Y,Z and spindle fwd,rev,speed what to do, do I need the PLC? Seems like all that's left is coolant, I can do that with a little cube relay.
You're my main man Darek, nobody else seem to be as farmiliar with Anilam as you are.
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Here are the two I/O connectors. I showed the OUT. SVO-ON output and how the internal transistor completes the circuit to ground. This output turns on relay K4 on the PCB801 board. I looked at the Pixie PDF and could not find the current capacity of the ENABLE output, you may need a driver transistor if the Pixie can not sink the relay current. If you tie the error lines of the Pixies together, as suggested in the PDF, a fault on one axis will shut down all the Pixie's. This should allow the use one Pixie ENABLE output for OUT. SVO-ON.
The input SVO OFF (P11-23) can be used as an E-STOP input to mach.
The P4 outputs and finished(IN) are the interface for the PLC.
Did you have M codes for high and low spindle range?
Darek
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Hi Darek
You asked:
>>Did you have M codes for high and low spindle range?<<
No
Edit: On second thought I did have to put M40 in for spindle to work. If there was another M code, I didn't need it as the spindle would spin from 0 to 6,000.
Ashby
P.S. Thank you and bless you my son.
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I can identify the P11, but can't see or tell which is P4.
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Is the spindle motor AC or DC?
Darek
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Well I had P11 wrong. Some dork installed my 803 upside down according to you're nice dwg. My wiring diagrams don't have such pretty pictures.
The spindle motor is AC, the drive is a Yaskawa Varispeed 626MTIII
Can I adopt you.?
Ashby
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My breakout board is Accu-Step. When I wired step/direction to Arturo's spindle control board I wired them to axis 4 on the BO board. Couldn't see anywhere else, but it doesn't seem right.
Edit: After staring at the BO board for an hour or so, I figured that enabling axis A on motor tuning and setting step to 5 & dir to 9 on pport 1 should to the trick.
Also.
If you tie the error lines of the Pixies together, as suggested in the PDF, a fault on one axis will shut down all the Pixie's. This should allow the use one Pixie ENABLE output for OUT. SVO-ON.
you may need a driver transistor if the Pixie can not sink the relay current
Can I tie the 3 enable lines of the Pixies together to connect to OUT. SVO-ON? Would that help to sink the current?
Ashby
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If you do not have a back gear (low range). You must have some kind of special spindle motor/drive combination to have power at low speeds.
I planned on doing away with the PLC on mine and using basic Mach outputs.
When you go to fire this thing up with the OUT. SVO-ON signal. I would suggest you take the high voltage/motor connector off of the drives and verify you have the high power first. Then I would hook one drive up at a time, X first since it has the longest travel and put it mid travel. If A and B are reversed the axis will run away. If you ever had one of the toothed encoder belts go out you will know what I mean.
Darek
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"You must have some kind of special spindle motor/drive combination to have power at low speeds."
The spindle motor is AC, the drive is a Yaskawa Varispeed 626MTIII
Can I tie the 3 enable lines of the Pixies together to connect to OUT. SVO-ON? Would that help to sink the current?
Ashby
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I planned on doing away with the PLC on mine and using basic Mach outputs.
Darek
I vote for that. Is what I'm about to do with OUT. SVO-ON going to communicate with the PLC? If so, then how to turn the drives on otherwise.
Ashby
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The problem with connecting the enables together is one will have less resistance and take the majority of the load. If one wound up being the only one on it would take all of the load.
The OUT. SVO-ON supplies ground directly to the relay of which the other side is connected to +24v (no PLC invovled.).
The PLC decoded the information coming from P4. When the PLC sees a STROBE T,M or S it reads the data on SMT-0 thru 7 and applies it to that function. The latch signals tells the PLC the CNC will be waiting for the FINISHED(In) signal.
T=Tool
M=Misc. Function
s=Spidle Speed
Input P11-20/FEED STOP(IN) comes from the PLC also.
Darek
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Does your wiring diagram show the I/O side of the PLC. This is where you would interface Mach's I/O. From your spindle description this part of your machine will be alot different than mine.
(Edit/posted here to get rid of duplicate post)
Darek
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I have removed the card cage and GXM Console. Mounted the power supply from the card cage and have only run 5v from it to the BO board. Have not connected any of the other outputs of that PS anywhere.
If the PLC needs info from P4, it's not connected to the card cage or the console anymore.
Are we working towards not using the PLC?
Ashby
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Here's pix of the PLC and Spindle Control. The PDF manuals are to big to post here, so if you want to get them, I posted them
here-->> http://wwbizz.com/Anilam/Darek
The PLC I have is F160MR, the only manual Mitsubishi had was for F2, they said that they were very similar.
The dwgs that I have don't show the I/O of the PLC.
Ashby
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You know " I have all the PLC I/O information." would have been the preferred answer!
Parts orientation must be how they kept up with the different models. I noticed your PLC is sideways. Mine is upside down.
If your spindle is single speed, I can't figure out what they used all the I/O for?????????
Darek
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If your spindle is single speed, I can't figure out what they used all the I/O for?
There was a read out of spdl speed on the console & I could bump the speed up or down from the console, maybe that's what a bunch of the I/O was about.
Is your PLC f1?. I can't make it out on the pic.
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Yes it is a f1. If you had a shielded wire coming from the second 502 D/A board your speed was probable handled completely in the CNC.
Do your tools have a retension knob or threaded for a draw bar?
Darek
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Do your tools have a retension knob or threaded for a draw bar?
Retention knob.
That PDF that I posted for the PLC is a programming manual, no wiring details. ........Rats.
The OUT. SVO-ON supplies ground directly to the relay of which the other side is connected to +24v (no PLC invovled.).
Where does the 24v come from. The only 24v I see is from the power supply I took from the card cage. 24v on that isn't connected to anything yet.
Ashby
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There is a 24V power supply right above your PCB 801 board ( The one with 3 icecube relays.)
My tools are threaded for a draw bar with a Kurt actuator ( 3/8" CP air hammer.).
Darek
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That's what I get for posting info from what we laughingly call my memory. The machine is only 50 ft. from the office. Too lazy to go look. ::)
Ashby
So now I'm ready to whack a ribbon cable and connect an enable (1) from a pixie. From the drawing, the odd numbers on the connector are on one row and the even on the other?
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Here is the diagram for mine. I would imagine the CNC to PLC interface would be the same for both machines.
The rest of the diagram will be like using a map of Alabama get around in Georgia!
Darek
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How disturbing it is to me to have to display the level of my ignorance. >:( That sheet IS in my wiring diagrams.
Sending you a PM
Ashby
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Actually that is a good thing!
As far as ignorance, I would not be much help if you had a machining question.
Darek
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Now I'm trying to figure out my limit switches. I have 3 per axis, all Normally Closed . On the X........ X+ & X-(24V), overtravel (servo disconnect) My Accu-Step BO board has one lug for each axis, Labeled "LS". I have read the section in the Mach 3 users guide on limit switches and the documentation that comes with the BO board. Can't see that I can use 3 per axis with what I have. Still have to turn on coolant after I (we) get this down.
I have another printer port. If I need another BO board I'd appreciate a recomedaton or two. Doesn't seem that I would need anything as fancy as what I have.
Ashby
EDIT: Could I use the XYZ minus switches as Home?
Not disconnect, run a jumper from NC contact on switch to LS lug on BO board?
Don't forget >>> I'm easily confused.
P.S. Merry Christmas
Happy New Year
Have a nice Easter.!!
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Darek
I tried NC contact to BO board as above. No joy.
The BO board wants to see a connection to ground broken by the limit sw. The 24v negative from the power supply isn't connected to chassis ground.
So if I connect limit sw NC to BO board AND power supply 24v negative will that work ??
Or will that mess up PC board 803 ?
Ashby
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This is how mine are setup. If yours are the same, I would leave the middle switches as is ( This is the loop that kills the servos.).
The RED (X+), GRAY (X-), ORN (Y+) and YEL (Y-) will be the inputs to the board. The BRN wire that supplies +24v to the switches will have to be switched to ground now.
Darek
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Arrgggh
The notations are too faint for my eyeballs.
Being easily confused, I need the pic too help interpret.
The BO board has one lug per axis labled LS.
I'm looking at page 14 of the PDF for the Accu-Step BO board and trying to figure out how this needs to be wired.
Disconnect 24v+ from PC board 803 and ground it....??
Connect Red (X+) AND Grey (X-) to "X" LS on BO board....?
Ashby
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All the limits switches wire to the P13 connector on the PCB 803 board. These are separate from the servo loop switches. Like I said you may have to replace +24v on the brown wire with common from the Accu-Step board.
I was looking your prints over. Very interesting.
Darek
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OK, off to put a bunch ov wires in place.
You sure are patient with me.
Appreciate it......Ashby
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First item on my todo list, get transistor.
Go to local electronics supply store.
Counter man has NTE book 2005. N2074 not listed.
Couner man says "here you look thru the book, see what you need"
It's all greek to me.
Go to NTE website, enter ULN2074 in search function.
Result = Sorry, no parts were found for ULN2074
Google finds a chip, needs a socket.
From what I understand, I need a gimmick with three wires. Base, Collector, and Emitter.
Base connects to Pixie enable, collector to OUT. SVO-ON (9), emitter to 24V COM (17)
Ashby
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Yes the ULN2074 is a chip that contains 4-50V-1.5A darlington switches. You only need one.
A 2N7000 is a good mosfet substitute for a single section.
Darek
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The good news is that all the magic smoke is still in place.
Got all 3 plus limit switches wired. Installed the Darlington Switch. Haven't put
the wires for the minus switches in place yet. I don't understand how, with
only one spot on the BO board for limit switch input, is Mach going to process
info from plus and minus switches from one input.
I have 3 power supplies, one for BO board, one for Pixies, and one for spindle
control board.
When I turn on the juice to the power supplies the drives come up, and the PLC
comes up. The VFD for the spindle doesn't light up. Y and Z drives disconnected, so playing with X. As soon as the X
drive is enabled the servo motor starts drifting. This kicks the Pixies into
defaut. I did plug the Y drive in to see if it behaved the same, it did.
Can't tune the Pixies in default, they need to be communicating with the
motors. Same story with PC/Mach on or off.
Maybe I missed something in Mach settings ??? Don't think so, since I get the
same problem when the PC isn't on.
I have called Servo Dynamics to see if they will send me an alignment
procedure for the drives.
Ashby
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At this point I would disconnect the command signal from the Pixie. Turn it back on while measuring the command output of the Pixie. The servo should drift like before, depending on the amp balance adjustment, and the output from the Pixie should climb until it faults. If this is what you see I would suspect you need to change the polarity of the command signal. You are probably sending it to ground now.
What should happen when you enable the drives, wether the computer is on or off, is the servos should lock in place. They should also fight any deflection in posistion at this point. Now they are ready to recieve S&D signals for movement.
Oh yea that is a special matched motor and drive for the spindle. The PDF states some of the motors have dual windings for high and low speed. The equivilent of an electronic gear change.
Darek
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change the polarity of the command signal. You are probably sending it to ground now.
How to do that?
Ashby ;D
EDIT: Figured that out. Swapped ref+ and ref-
That did it.
Now when I power up, X runs away
Switched A and B encoder inputs on the BO board, still runs away.
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Talked to Ed @ cncbuildingblocks. Aparently I have the power to the Pixies wired wrong.
Sort that out & see how it goes.
Ashby
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Got the power supply wiring redone.
Now the X axis that is powerd drifts. kicks the Pixies out.
Changed the polarity as Darek suggested...........still drifts.
I'll put together a wiring diagram of my spagetti bowl and post it in a day or two.
Ashby
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Whilst working on the ACAD for the wiring I finally think I know something.
Being your basic gearhead +12v on the battery is hot, -12v is ground. So when I see -12v, GND, and SHEILD, it all means connect to da frame.
Now I am beginning to see that's WRONG.
Back to the spagetti bowl
Someone hurry and tell me if I'm still fecked up, before I get this all rewired.
Ashby
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-12v is the negative rail on a dual rail supply. Not 0v or GND ;)
A dual rail 12v supply will normally have -12v 0v 12v
Wayne...
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Here is the battery equivilent. It should show you why your power supply would not like the way you had it wired.
Darek
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OK guys
Hope to have the wiring dwg done soon.
Soon = Mon or Tue.
Ashby
Back in the day, (1958) I put a 413 with a 12v starter in an old Plymouth with a 6v system. Put a 12v battery in it and tapped the 3rd cell for 6v to run the junk in the car.
Whoa...a dual rail 6v.
Batteries didn't last long but it was the hottest thing on Woodward Ave.
Edit: If I look at that vista thing much longer I'm going to go batty............ or battier. Put the tin foil hat on but that won't turn it off.
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Here's what it looks like now.
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Hope REV 1 is easier on the eyes
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Thot you might just want to know who you are dealing with.
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;D
Ardor,
You are a mess.
Brett
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I have connected power to X axis only. Using the Pixie diagnostics I can move the axis. I can't move it with Mach 3.
Here's my xml file.
Ashby
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Ashby
If you are just not getting a movement in Mach when trying to Jog with the keyboard then it is probably because you dont have the Jog Control enabled.
Hood
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I entered g1 f1 x1 in mdi. The DRO goes up, but no movement of the X axis. The led's on the bo board twinkle, so it is sending to the pixies. It looks like the pixies don't like what is being sent.
Ashby
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Have you tried increasing the step pulse?
Hood
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Upon closer examination I discovered that all the led's were working......except X step. I called Ed @ cncbuildingblocks and replaced two ICs on his advice.
NOW X IS MOVING UNDER MACH.
Yeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssss.
Two more axis and the spindle and I'll be making chips.
Ashby
EDIT: I should make it clear that the chips that needed replacing were not faulty out of the box. My less than informed attempt to wire the power supplies took the chips out.
Ed is a great guy, he has gone the extra mile with me, more than once.
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:)
Brett
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Excellent news.
Hood
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Still working with just the X axis, others are disconnected. I wrote a couple of short programs for X. Move 0.100 and back and move 1.000 and back.
Moving 0.100 I can get up to about 30 ipm, then the Pixie stops. Actually that short of a move it probably never gets to the speed commanded. Moving 1.000 only goes to 21 ipm, the Pixie stops at change of direction. So I'm capable of 20+ ipm now. The Pixie is set at it's default as it came out of the box. If someone could translate some of the Pixie directons in their PDF file into language that I can understand, that would help. For reference I can understand anything written for someone in the 3rd grade.
When I ran "check config" it said my kernel speed was too hi (45K). So I reset to 25K, no difference.
I thought I wanted a hi kernel speed to be able to have 400 ipm rapids that the old control was capable of.
Ashby
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The drives are servo dynamics. I called and just got the manual. It has the default pot settings for the drives. I put the pots to the default on all three axis. That eliminated the drift that was present on all three. So now I have power to X, Y, and Z connected.
Still more to do, running my little move programs will stop the Pixies on any axis.
Ashby
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I sent this screen shot to Skyko.
If anyone has thoughts about this, I'd appreciate any input.
Ashby
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My Viper drives shipped today. Should see them next wed or thurs 6/20-21.
When they get here, I'll be BAAAAAAAAAKK.
Ashby
Sold the Servo Dynamics drives, that were in the machine, and the Pixies, on ebay.
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Did you get to play with the Viper drives?
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There they are. Still have some wiring to sort.
Not real excited with the RS232 comunication setup. But at least I seem to be able to talk to the drives.
Ashby
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Whata life. ::)
I see that while I've been occupied with more important things that cncbuildingblocks website seems to be gone.
Downloaded and printed the manual for my Yaskawa spindle drive. (150 pages)
Fat chance I'm gonna figure that one out.
I'll fly anyone out here that is willing to help me get this beast on the road.
Volunteers ??
Ashby
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I sent this screen shot to Skyko.
If anyone has thoughts about this, I'd appreciate any input.
Ashby
Needs less gain.
I have pixies on my bridgeport series II CNC and like them very much. Kept the stock servoes, amplifiers and power supply. No problems after 4 years of abuse.
JH
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Sold the Pixies.
Bought 3 Vipers.
Ashby