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Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Fastest1 on February 25, 2012, 06:53:10 PM

Title: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 25, 2012, 06:53:10 PM
Today I am trying to load, understand and use the tool table on my lathe. I have a 6 position turret tool changer
   I loaded 3 tools, a .375 Drill as the Master Tool, a left hand turning tool as #4 and a small boring bar as tool 6. No reason for this arrangement other than using the longest tool as the Master and starting somewhere.
I went thru the procedure as closely as I could like chapter 7 states in the manual. Though looking back thru my tool table editor the only thing I see is the tool number and name. It sounds like I missed something to set and or save the offsets on tools 4 & 6 and the master tool has no offset (at least that is the way I understood it). The tool offests numbers really confuse me for some reason.
   When calling for tool 1 in the MDi line I just say T1 00 or T4 00. So far I have never followed the tool number with any positive number (though it is my understanding there are 256 offsets available, why I dont know but that is another day). I see some refer to it as T101 (tool 1 offset 1?) I am supposing T1001 would be tool 10 offset 1? Anyway I am guessing upon start up each day or job beginning you home your machine, in my case I do have limit/home switches on both axis' farthest from the chuck. I would think I would physically touch tool 1(Master) to the Z face and touch part 0. At this point all other tools in the turret are a known distance from the master, correct? How do I call out tool 4 to touch the face of Z on the same part? If I simply type in T4 00 in the MDI line the tool changes fine but no G##  I typed in would command a move. Seems really odd to me. I am really just trying to verify that i could touch a part and visualize the concept. Smids book is a little over my head so far. Any tips or help would be great!  
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: RICH on February 25, 2012, 09:28:10 PM
The following should help you out. Just understand that no switches are being used and that it is written for a tool holder but the basics are the same.
If you want more detail about homing and the tool table then have a look at Appendix "F" in the LazyTurn manual which can be found in Members Docs.
Surely others will chime in as they use a turret.

RICH
 
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on February 26, 2012, 02:23:24 AM
I dont use the standard lathe screenset so my methods are likely different but heres a few pointers.
First you need to understand that the tool table is really an offset table in Turn and you actually only have 99 offset numbers even though the tooltable shows 254.
The reason you only have 99 is because of the way tools are called in Turn, TXXYY where X is the tool number or slot of turret and YY is the offset for that tool. For instance if you called T0101 or T0201 it would use the offset number you have in 01 in the tool table. That is not practical really unless you had two identical tools in two different slots and had them set exactly the same (almost impossible) So as you can see you can only have a 2 digit tool number and a 2 digit offset number thus the max of 99 offsets available.
Not read Richs manual but likely it covers the setting of tools but if you dont follow shout back and I am sure you will get more help.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: RICH on February 26, 2012, 06:58:03 AM
Feel free to ask questions on anything in Appendix "F" or better yet just tell me that something is not clear.
In the quickie i don't go into any detail where the appendix does.  The problem with automating the turning of a part is that one needs to understand
setup, the coordinate system, the Gcodes, and how they all relate to one another. That is a lot of info and it's very easy to get confused.

RICH

 

Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 26, 2012, 09:42:20 AM
Rich, Confusion is a good word to use in this arena. There is an incredible amount to learn and having a strong mathematical background would have been nice too. When I started to read the first page of the link you gave me, 1 of the first screens was to check the persistent tool offset. I was sure this forgotten unfortunately all were checked. Anyway I went thru the process of loading a few tools however since my machine does have limit/home switches I modified it a little bit. I already have my toolchange occurring at a predetermined spot so I also used that for my zero world location (the location where the tool 0 was being set up). I then proceeded thru the 3 tools. Then I touched Z of my part (scrap in the spindle with a face and diameter) with my Master tool (1) and pressed part zero with 0 in the dro. I then homed the machine and entered T100 the correct tool was loaded (actually just verified as it was already in the right postion. I then entered G54 Z0 X0 F2. Tool 1 proceeded to part x0 Y0 perfectly though there are a few questions (I get a totally different feedrate depending on the tool chosen even though F2 was requested). On to other misunderstandings. I then pressed home all again. Machine homed fine. I then entered T400, (here is where I believe my first error was, no offset) tool 4 moved into the correct location in the turret and it appeared to be in the correct location in X but Z was the same distance away as the master tool was. I then had an epiphany (after I had shut everything down and was laying in bed) that because I didnt ask for any offset, it didnt give me any. My thought now is that had I specified T404 it would have gone to the correct location or T401 still not sure of which one but I will try them both this morning. Thank you both as always for your input. It is  privilege to be able to receive the professional advice I get here.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 26, 2012, 01:41:42 PM
So I tried T401 and T404 trying to see if there was a difference in how far it was away from the part I zeroed on using the master tool. I am missing something as all of the tools are the same distance away as the tool 1 (in Z). Though tool 1 hits Z0 X0 perfectly but my offsets from that tool must be wrong (easy to understand how that could have happened). I would have expected the error in X (due to the battle between radius and diameter) but not the Z. What amazes me the most is how you can write the manual so well and in an orderly manner (btw, this doesnt mean I understand it but that is my fault). I cant even conceptualize most of it. As you can see, order is not my strong suit.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on February 26, 2012, 02:14:42 PM
Ok heres is what I would do if I didnt have home switches.
Move tool 1 and take a cut and measure the Dia and set that for the X DRO, next take a facing cut and set the Z DRO as zero. Now call a new tool, say tool 2. Move so the tool touches off the dia of the stock you have just cut, enter the size that it is into the X DRO for the Part Zero then press the Part Zero X button, you should now see that the actual X DRO has changed to that diameter. Do the same for the Z, move the tool until it touches the end of the stock, enter 0 into the Part Zero DRO for Z and press Part Zero button.
Repeat these steps for each tool, once you have done all tools you are best to open the tool table and apply. When you look in the tool table you should see offsets for X and Z for all tools you have set up except Tool 1, it should not have any offsets. That means each tool is set with reference to Tool 1.

Then to test just MDI each tool and you should see the X and Z DROs change to show the relative position of each tool.

I think I have the right buttons and DROs, reason I am not 100% certain is I have my own screenset and I have named the buttons differently.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 26, 2012, 02:34:05 PM
Is there any reason why everyone keeps suggesting what to do "if I didnt have home switches"? I do have limit switches at the positive ends of travel in both axis and they are extremely repeatable according to my indicator. They are both used as home switches also and use different pins in Mach. Otherwise I will follow the advice as all my attempts above have not yielded me the results I was anticipating.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on February 26, 2012, 02:42:28 PM
My appologies, skimmed through and thought you said you didnt have but see now you do.
Ok then what to do is have your X  home position as your "Master Tool", when you home set X DRO to  zero and then call Tool1 and do as mentioned above taking a cut and measuring the dia of that cut and enter that for the Part Zero DRO for X and press the X Part Zero  button. That will set an offset for tool 1 on the X in relation to your X Home switch. Z I wouldnt bother with as you set the Z DRO each time you put in a new piece of stock so if you leave Tool 1 Offset for Z in tool table as 0 then all other tools will be offset in relation to that. So face and set Z DRO sero then move on to setting the other tools as described.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 26, 2012, 03:12:13 PM
Hood, A few more questions if you dont mind. Can I use the tool change location as the master tool home ? (this is off of the limit/home switch on both axis by approx 1/4" and set in my tool change macro). In your example the master tool is 0. All other tools are offset from that? If I use all 6 holders in my turret, should I label and call the offset by the same number as the tool number? ie T101, T202, T303 etc? as they all have different lengths and distances from the changer? If I asked for tool 4 as in T401, tool 4 would load but would be using the offsets of tool 1, wouldnt it? Which if it was my longest tool for example (a long drill bit, longer than any other tool in the turret) but tool 4 was a left hand turning tool, wouldnt I end up with the turning tool the length of the drill bit (or the drill bit minus the turning tools projection in Z) away from the piece/stock? Damn, I cant even ask the question coherently.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on February 26, 2012, 04:03:10 PM
Yes its normal to call the offset equal to the tool number.
I wouldnt bother personally about using the Z home as your master as Z changes every job you do so if you say have Tool 1 with no Z offsets and all other tools referenced to that you can then set the Z of the stock with that tool and all the rest will be correct in relation.

Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 26, 2012, 04:10:39 PM
Thanks so much for the speedy responses. I am going to try it some more right now.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 26, 2012, 06:27:20 PM
I have tried exactly your steps and get some strange responses. At times it seems like my dros dont reset and have offsets longer than my machine. I am still baffled why a G54 X0 Z0 F10 will act differently with different tools. Sometimes it appears 10ipm, others 3-4? When I see that my tool is about to pass or crash into my stock when verifying whether the tool table set up was successful my Smoothstepper throws up some fault (after I have pressed esc)
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on February 27, 2012, 02:51:16 AM
Can you attach your xml and also zip and attach the full macro folder of the profile you are using as something definitely is not right.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 27, 2012, 10:11:29 AM
Hood, here are the files (I hope). Let me know what other info I need to provide. Again, Thanks so much.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 27, 2012, 10:12:29 AM
It didnt get the XML?
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 27, 2012, 10:14:46 AM
Maybe this time?
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on February 27, 2012, 02:09:01 PM
I would personally get rid of the M6End macro as it may be the source of some of your issues.
Also I note you have set X offsets for a few tools but Z offsets are all Zero.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 27, 2012, 04:40:56 PM
Hood, Thanks for the review and tips. What is an M6End do? Is there any negative to getting rid of it? I have tried the tool setting quite a few times and get varied responses. Though I think I am following yours and Rich's tutorials (I have tried both ways and they may be the same?,but written or understood differently). I am still very puzzled as to why my axis go different speeds with different tools but the command is the same (G54 Z0 X0 F8). Also trying to do exactly what your instructions said one of my X axis offsets was in the 9" range! Not Z, X. My X limit is 4 or so. I was touching the diameter of a .3115 piece of stock. I tried it quite a few times attempting withand or without pressing enter, with or without pressing "part X or Z" and using only the touch button. I get seemingly odd and misunderstood behavior though I feel like I have read enough to at least get the 2nd tool to also touch my stock in the general area (I expect .001's but would be very happy within an inch or so in the beginning). Tool 1 always seems to behave correctly ;-)
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on February 27, 2012, 04:51:00 PM
The M6End macro is for Mills as far as I understand, the standard Turn M6End macro has the following in it
REM nothing here in lathe

in other words its not used. Likely you can use it but what it is doing in your setup is actually moving the axis in a tool change which could potentially be dangerous in a lathe, also it may be the cause of the feedrate issues as it is writing to the DROs I think.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 27, 2012, 06:18:10 PM
Ditched every one I could find. I am having some weird things occur. Very erratic. Might have to dump it alll out and start fresh. I dont know to suspect the SS or Mach or Me (ok well I can blame me as I am sure I am part of the problem). Just baffled.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on February 27, 2012, 06:29:10 PM
SS works fine for me, have used it on the lathe for probably 4 years and recently switched to ESS and it too works fine.

As I said I dont use the standard screenset so the extra buttons it has I am not sure what they are for, eg the one you mentioned earlier, touch X or something like that, dont have a clue what it is for. Rich I think uses the standard screenset so he should be able to help as far as they go.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: RICH on February 27, 2012, 07:45:51 PM
A few comments:
-Mach assumes that G54 is the default offset, so you don't need to put G54 in the command.
  ( assuming that a G54 exists and you didn't have a call for a different fixture offset like G55)
- I don't have switches on my lathe so i need to define a home position.
- If there is a G54 and you want to test the tool moving to the part zero at a feed rate then either G0 x0.0 Z0.0   or   G01 X0.0 Z0.0 in the MDI
  for a rapid move or move at a feed rate to part zero. Clicking the Home All will take you back to home.
- One can also set the feedrate in the input box on the screen
- One can change the tool in the MDI:
   T0000 - will change to the master tool ( providing you defined tool #0 as the master)
   T0101 - changes the tool to tool #1 and its offset
   T0100 - changes the tool to tool #1 with the tool offset of the master tool
    ALL THE TOOLS ARE RELATED TO THE MASTER TOOL  AND ALSO RELATED TO EACH OTHER

When you first finish referencing your machine using the switches, you are at your home position ( open the fixtures and see if a G54 was created, if not, then you need to  
define that position by setting Set Home X & Z).  ......don't use the fancy gadgets here........ or move somehwere else and set home. Now if you touch off to the part
and set the x and z axis mach will change the G54 fixture offset.

I deliberately didn't say how to set a tool because everbody will do it differently, Hood machines a stock for setting the postion, some just move it near  0,0, and say good enough, if my microscope is attached i use it,
in the write up i used the "conventional " method which is described so often,  the main point is that you need to set the master tool and and follow thru with the others. If i say anymore you may get confused......me too! :D

RICH

 




Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: RICH on February 27, 2012, 08:13:16 PM
Quote
I tried it quite a few times attempting with and or without pressing enter, with or without pressing "part X or Z" and using only the touch button

Hmm......
My quickie simply says touch off tool #0, then touch off tool #2, and then tool#3, until you are finished touching off all of the tools.
Move the carriage any way you want, matters not where you go, but with the next tool in touch it off in a similar fashion to the same point.
As soon as you touch off a tool Mach keeps track of the tool ( the controlled point ), it knows where that tool is, when you put the next tool ...and tell Mach ..... via ithe box and touch it off, Mach does the accounting and
puts the value in the tool offset table. When your done touching them all off.....leave your pinkies off any buttons........your done with the tool table.

Do it that way maybe. Then try the machining way. BTW, you don't need to run the lathe spindle, maybe put a plastic straw in the chuck and use flexible pieces of plastic to fool around. This way if you get things mixed up
the only thing you end up with is a bent straw and twisted plastic tool.........works for me when fooling around! ::)

RICH


Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 27, 2012, 10:17:10 PM
Hood, It wouldnt have mattered on the screenset, I would have still done it wrong the first few times :-) SS seems to work fine for the people who really understand it. I have a few problems but i cant blame it on the SS, it just adds another variable tha I am not familiar wiith. Fortunately there are people like you who are willing to share their experiences and reassure the rest of us that products do work if set up and used correctly. With all of the weirdness going on in my set up, do you think I should do a fresh install of Mach? If I did, all I would really need to save would be my xml and tool change macro wouldnt it? NFS wizards maybe?
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 27, 2012, 10:30:26 PM
Rich we are way past me being confused! Eventually I will get some of it correctly. I do change the tools via MDI. Touch off tool 0? Or by touch off do you mean set my machine 0,0 to be my Tool 0's location? Then I notice you skipped tool 1, according to Hoods method, this was because all other tools vary from tool 1, correct? Tool 1 should have no offset in Z or X, correct? I like the straw idea, so would my tools! Up until this point I have been using a piece of stock .3115 in diameter, if when touching tool 2 to the X, shouldnt I have the diameter in the X part zero box upon pressing touch? Since I never touch tool 1 til the actual part is installed it baffles me how anything knows where it is.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: RICH on February 27, 2012, 11:27:52 PM
Quote
we are way past me being confused
Your trying to do too much at one time.  

Can you take a call? send me a PM with a tel # in the next 5 minutes and i will call you.

RICH


Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on February 28, 2012, 07:44:23 AM
Rich, Thanks so much for the offer. Unfortunately I didnt read it til this morning ;-)
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 01, 2012, 05:22:50 PM
Btw, I didnt get anywhere yet :-) You just thought my problems were solved. In reality I chopped thru my cable/internet feed installing my dog's invisible fence (2" under the soil). So I didnt have my computer up and running (plus I was trenching and installing 2000' of cable thru the woods!) I will be back with questions!
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: RICH on March 01, 2012, 05:34:06 PM
I thought you were reading,studying, and experimenting.....here ya are just playing in the sand with some toys ;D

RICH
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 01, 2012, 06:38:28 PM
Sand? Thru the woods, mostly roots and feeding mosquitos! 83 degrees today. Amazing what a Bedbug trencher can do. Best 100 bucks I ever spent! 2000 feet laid and covered up in about 1 1/2 days alone. It ran thru huge roots and stopped on a piece of Romex, didnt even nick the jacket. Though it did cut right thru my cable. Just weird on that one. Fixing my cable was plenty. What is that saying? 2 steps forward and 1 step back? Today I was 1 step forward overall. Tool offsets better watch out cause here I come. Also after a few nights of rest and not reading forums, I have an idea I need to quit trying to compensate thru the DRO's while touching off. It is a hypothesis (well not so edumacated!) anyway.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 02, 2012, 03:11:10 AM
Ok here goes again, try this I probably told you the wrong button before. As I said I dont use the standard screen as it has never made much sense to me, especially all the jumping from screen to screen that is needed with it.

1.Home your machine
2.Make sure you MDI T101
3.Take a cut of a piece of stock and keeping the X at the same position move back off stock and then measure the stock Dia (assuming you use Dia mode)
4.Go to ToolTable page and enter the measured Dia into the Part Zero Coords for X Dia DRO and press Touch X button
5.Open Tool Table and press Apply then OK
6. Move tool and take a facing cut and zero the Z DRO (not Part zeroing DRO)
7. Call T202 and repeat step 3 to 5 for new tool
8.Touch tool off end of stock but this time make sure Part Zeroing DRO for Z is Zero and then press Touch Z button (Do not alter the actual Z DRO, it will change when you press that button)
9. Open Tooltable press apply then OK
10 repeat from 7 to 9 for next tool etc etc.

Hood
6
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 02, 2012, 03:22:41 AM
On my screen I have a MDI box on the tool setting page and also my Set X and Set Z buttons are VB buttons which makes the process quicker and easier.
My buttons have

X button is

DoOemButton(324)
Sleep 100
DoOemButton(121)

Z button is

DoOemButton(326)
Sleep 100
DoOemButton(121)

In them, what that toes is press the Touch X or Z button which updates the tool table then automatically opens the tool table so that you can apply and OK it.

Having the MDI on the page makes it much easier than having to jump back and forth to change tools.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 02, 2012, 01:52:17 PM
Well I just set up my new home made turret today with the method mentioned above and it worked great so should work fine for you. Previously I had a Home Off value set for my master tools X value, ie no offset in the tool table but this time I set the X home switch as my "master tool" and it worked fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAfyQE5125M&list=UUNEcFI4fdD5kV938uchW3sg&index=1&feature=plcp
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 02, 2012, 02:19:22 PM
Hood & Rich Thanks as always. That did get me much closer. I can now get tools 4 & 6 (only using tools 1,4 & 6) to touch off repeatedly in the same place (close enough to realize the offests are close to correct). Tool 1 is giving me fits. I also notice at times that somehow communication is being lost. I see the Dros moving in X but the axis is against a physical stop. Then when I go to jog, x control is lost. The dros move but the steppers dont. That has got to wreak havoc on achieving correct offsets wouldnt you think? Before running the Smoothstepper I never lost control of a stepper.
   Also after touching the first tool in X and setting the diameter in the (X) Part Zero Dro and pressing the touch button. Do you install the diameter in the (X) Part Zero Dro for every tool or do you use 0 for setting every subsequent tool?
   I am getting closer but I might have to pull the SS out to figure out what is happening. There just seems to be too many variables. OK 2 steps back.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 02, 2012, 02:24:43 PM
That just showed me it works for you. I had no doubt you had it figued out. How about a video of you setting up the tool offsets? That is the big lathe I read about you converting? Front and rear turret?
Well I just set up my new home made turret today with the method mentioned above and it worked great so should work fine for you. Previously I had a Home Off value set for my master tools X value, ie no offset in the tool table but this time I set the X home switch as my "master tool" and it worked fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAfyQE5125M&list=UUNEcFI4fdD5kV938uchW3sg&index=1&feature=plcp
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 02, 2012, 02:28:32 PM
I homed, I called T101  brought x in to dia of a bar and took a cut and measured then set X Part Zero DRO to the dia I just measured and pressed my set X button which is the equivelent of the touch X. The tooltable opens due to the extra code in my button and I applied and saved. Then tok a facing cut and zeroed the Z DRO (not part zero DRO) Then called T202 and touched off X and entered that into Part Zero DRO for X and pressed my set X then moved to touch that tool off the end, entered 0 in Z Part zero DRO and pressed Set Z button then on to next tool.

To me it sounds like your m6start.m1s macro may be causing issues, do you have moves in it?
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 02, 2012, 02:31:30 PM
I will see if I get a chance to do a short vid of setting a tool up.
It originally had a front 4 way post and rear six pos turret. I got a 6 pos turret for the front and now have done away with that and put a home made 12 pos on the rear. I plant to have a fixed block on the front for big boring bars/drills of 50mm dia and will also have dovetails on the side so I can use the holders that were previously used on the turret I had on the front.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 02, 2012, 02:45:51 PM
Hood that would really be appreciated by myself and a few others here in the back of the class. YOU MADE THAT TURRET? Wow! I really cant expect anything to work with this movement or lack of movement issue though.
  Also when you press Part Zero X you dont need to press Touch X too? (they are the same?) I noticed at 1 point trying to make sense of what I was doing that if I pressed touch X more than once it kept adding offsets. Not realizing what was happening or why (still dont but quit pressing it) I had an offset on 1 tool in X of 52", like that was going to happen. This lathe is bigger than my Sherline but it aint that big! No reason to even try to verify that tools final location on my machine. Again I cant thank you enough for the personal tutorials.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 02, 2012, 02:52:25 PM
Yes been working on making it the last few weeks, heres the posts I have done on my progress
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,1234.200.html

I dont press Part Zero button at all, I had previously mentioned that button but that was a mistake  as my screenset is different than standard and what I should have said was Touch X touch Z buttons.
 I enter the value into the Part Zero DRO then press Touch X or Touch Z. As said my screen is different and buttons named differently but its more or less the same.

Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 02, 2012, 03:00:55 PM
A few weeks? I knew I was slow. Hoss builds a G0704 and a 3D printer, you a tool changer? This seems trivial but as you enter the diameter into the X Dro, do you follow it by pressing enter before pressing the Touch X button? IIRC, Seems like there was a difference.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 02, 2012, 03:03:37 PM
Yes any time you type a value into any DRO you need to press the enter key on your keyboard for it to stick.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 02, 2012, 03:19:33 PM
That is what I thought i was just verifying your every move.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: RICH on March 02, 2012, 04:50:24 PM
Nice work on the turret Hood and best of all it's working.
RICH
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 02, 2012, 04:53:25 PM
Hope it keeps working ;D

Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 02, 2012, 04:55:17 PM
I am getting closer 2 tools will repeat! I will work on my misunderstanding for a bit. Thanks so much. There is hope.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 03, 2012, 12:22:17 AM
Ok, This is what I did so far
Homed my machine to the limits, this is also machine 0.
Called for Tool 0 at the above location in the MDI line. Set X part zero and Z part zero and hit apply, save.
Then I went to tool 4 and touched the x, installed the diameter in the X part zero, hit touch X, apply, save.
Same for tool 6.
At this time tools 4 and 6 would and will repeat and end up in the correct location.
However when I try to run the procedure on tool 1, I touch in X, install diameter in the X Part Zero dro, hit touch X, apply, save.
I have then tried to touch Z and just hit 0 in the Z axis dro apply, save and I have tried it with the Z part zero dro with a 0 value, touch Z apply, save.
If I call tool 1 and procede to G1 Z0 X0 F8 (for example) the X immediately starts going the wrong direction and faults the limit switch.
Btw I still get different speeds of approach to the part depending on the tool number requested, regardless of the F rate. Once I get a little better grasp on the toolchanger set up, I am deleting all of Mach and doing a fresh install.
Thanks
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 03, 2012, 12:28:21 AM
I cant see why it would make any difference but tool 1 in this case is the longest tool. It is actually a drill bit (.375), I touch the side of it and record X as diameter of part (.3115 )+ the diameter of the drill bit (.375)  for a .6865 offset.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 03, 2012, 03:07:28 AM
Ok what you are doing is wrong, forget the Tool 0 part  and set whichever tool you wish to be master for the Z Zero at the end of the stock, you cant use the Z limit as master as stock length will always be different each time you place a piece in the chuck.

So procedure

1. Home
2 MDI T0404 ( if you want to use that as master for Z)
3 Move to approx dia of stock and take a cut, do not move the X after the cut or if you do then make sure you have it back to the same position it was in when taking the cut.
4. Measure the stock, enter that into X part xero DRO and  press Touch X
5 Go into tool table press apply and ok.
6. Move to end of stock ready to take a light cut and zero the Z DRO (not part zero DRO) then take a facing cut.
7.Move away and change to next tool
8. Touch off dia and enter the dia into x part zero DRO and then Touch X, apply and ok in tool table.
9 Touch off end of stock and enter 0 into Part zero DRO and press Touch Z then apply and ok in tool  table.
Repeat 8 and 9 for other tools.

For  a drill  if you touch the edge of the drill off the Dia of the stock then the value you want for X part zero DRO is stock dia + HALF drill Dia.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 03, 2012, 08:50:20 AM
I was in a dilemna in my understanding. Having read a few articles on tool setting of yours and Rich's it seems like there were a few techniques. Still dont know why just the x axis would go the wrong direction. I will try again to set it up as above.

On the using the drill bit and adding the dia of the stock to 1/2 the diameter of the bit was not working. I couldnt think of any other way it would work but as you just described. Every time I did a side touch off and entered the .499, the tip of the drill bit would be even with the OD of the stock with an X0 command. If I entered the .6865 (the addition of both stock and the drill bits diameter) it will go to the exact center. I have repeated this procedure many times to verify it. It doesnt make sense to me. Of course with all of my posting, you might wonder if anything makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 03, 2012, 09:25:51 AM
I will have to think about the drill setting in a bit as I seem to recall something funny as well.
Make sure all tools in the tool table are set to Front or Rear but not a mixture, if you have a mix it screws everything up. The Front/Rear option is one of the many annoying things in Turn that dont work correctly and to my thinking it should at least be changed so that you cant have that option if it is not going to be fixed.
Another thing that should be changed regards the tool table is the number of offsets changed to only 99. These are minor things but all add to the confusion.

Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 03, 2012, 09:33:53 AM
Ok just thought about it and yes it is the full drill dia because of course we are working in Dia mode so cross slide only moves half of commanded distance.
Big dope slap for Hood ;D
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Hood on March 03, 2012, 09:35:49 AM
BTW if I was you I would make sure you have at the very least commented out the M6End macro so that it has no effect on things. I would also comment out any VB in the M6Start that moves any axis or records any positional DROs for an axis. That will hopefully eliminate the macros being your problem.
Hood
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 03, 2012, 10:02:28 AM
Glad to get the clarification on the drill bit set up. That was not how I would have thought it worked either.
You might have been the 1 who mentioned that M6End wasnt needed and could possibly cause issues. I deleted all of the M6End files/macros in that computer. My understanding of the language in dealing with VB is less than what I know here, as if that isnt scary. Do you think I just like to challenge myself? I will look at the macro and see if there is anything blatantly obvious.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: RICH on March 03, 2012, 10:20:29 AM
tool setting of yours and Rich's it seems like there were a few techniques

Actually they are all basically the same. Mach keeps track of the current tool movements. In the write up you use a known standard to define the tool location where as Hoods description uses a machined surface to create the standard and define the tool location. To populate the tool table Mach needs one tool location defined so it can relate  any others that you want to define.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Luppie the hotel attendant,  drives up to the empty parking lot, gives  his  a numbered ticket to  Mr.Lot.  Lot says to Luppie, drive around to find a parking spot / go in circles / back up / go forward, don't much care what you do..........but .......make sure you Beep your horn so we know what spot your in.

 Luppie goes back to the hotel and picks up another car, here's a numbered ticket Mr. Lot. Lot looks at the ticket and makes note that the ticket is has a diffferent ticket number. Lot says to Luppie, drive around to find a parking spot / go in circles / back up / go forward, don't much care what you do..........but .......make sure you Beep your horn just as you did before so we know what spot your in.

Luppie goes back to the hotel and again picks up another car, here's a numbered ticket Mr. Lot. Lot looks at the ticket and makes note that the ticket is has a diffferent ticket number. Lot says to Luppie, drive around to find a parking spot / go in circles / back up / go forward, don't much care what you do..........but .......make sure you Beep your horn just as you did before so we know what spot your in.

The  tool ( ticket) , Mach keeps track of the tool (car), can move as you wish, Beep ( consistant way of defineing the tool location to Mach).

RICH

 



Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 03, 2012, 11:54:57 AM
Rich, I love the analogy, sorry you had to dumb it down so much. Unfortunately it srtill isnt going as planned. I am now cleaning off any and all other programs and reinstalling Mach. This computer is never going online and being dedicated to the lathe. There are plenty of extras that dont need to be here. I just have to rule out all possiblities. I hate wasting your time when it could be a set up conflict or something. Better to just start over.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 04, 2012, 11:31:31 PM
I was successful in cleaning up the computer and reinstalling Mach, SS plug in, and rebuild my profile instead of import the old one. It seems to be working much better in general. though I havent really havent had time to figure out this tool thing. All tools now approach at the same speed! No idea what that was about but I was sure it wasnt right. I really need to reread some of the Mach manual (all of it most likely LOL) as there are some settings on the gen config page dealing with axis dro properties that may not be right.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 06, 2012, 09:27:52 PM
I just want to say a big thanks to Rich (not trying to offend you Hood as you both save me more than I can ever repay). However after repeated attempts to understand and implement a successful retouch of the called tool to the area I desired, I wasnt getting it. Rich called me and after telling me where Lupe parked his car on the middle of the football field, I got it! I dont know how but it worked. I presently have 3 tool in the turret all going where I tell them, when I tell them. Cool.  I will definitely have to practice resetting it a few times to confirm my understanding. Rich you now know how frustrated my teachers must have been! A big thanks to you and everyone else who tried. What a wonderful resource.
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: RICH on March 07, 2012, 06:43:35 AM
BTW, Luppie was a friend in Corpus Christi , Texas..... ;)
RICH
Title: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 07, 2012, 08:25:22 AM
I wasn't going to correct you though the spelling error bothered me from the first story. Lupe is a common Latin name, not Luppie. Does Delaware have many Lupe's or Luppie's? I don't know how you found where your tools were. ;-)
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: Fastest1 on March 07, 2012, 11:52:48 AM
Proof it works! http://youtu.be/NNlgsUorANY
Title: Re: Use of tools in a turret?
Post by: RICH on March 07, 2012, 04:30:33 PM
You got it!  :)
Luppie was the way he spelled it ....what more can one say. ;)
RICH