Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: jjac on February 12, 2012, 12:05:49 AM
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A friend of mine bought a Precision Automotion PA200 router and it runs on DOS. I never learned DOS so this machine needs to be converted to Mach. The machine has a 4 axis controller from Anaheim Automation similar to the one in the link.
http://www.anaheimautomation.com/products/stepper/stepper-driver-item.php?sID=54&serID=46&pt=i&tID=86&cID=20 (http://www.anaheimautomation.com/products/stepper/stepper-driver-item.php?sID=54&serID=46&pt=i&tID=86&cID=20) The computer has 2 parallel ports on it and it use both ports. One port for x and y and the other for w and z.
Questions I have are as follows,
1. He needs a new computer, one with 2 parallel ports. Any suggestions?
2. Is it going to be as simple as plugging up the new computer and installing Mach 3 to get it running?
3. Would it be easier to gut the machine and install new drivers and servos?
I know I am going to have to figure out what the ports and pins settings are and that will take some time. That's just a few questions I have at the moment, I am sure more will arise in the next few weeks.
Here are a few pictures of the machine.
Thanks Guys
(http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=152528&d=1329013099)
(http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=152529&d=1329013099)
(http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=152530&d=1329013099)
(http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=152531&d=1329013099[img]
[img]http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=152532&d=1329013099)
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If it is indeed step/dir drives then it should just be a case of configuring correctly the ports and pin numbers. For two ports just get a motherboard with one port and then get a PCI parllel port card for the second port.
Alternatively you could get a SmoothStepper, ethernet version is the best I would say.
Hood
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Could I get a parallel card like this one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815317005 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815317005)
It does have 4 steppers like this one...
(http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=152532&d=1329013099)
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I would toss the electronics and go with a PMDX-126 BOB and Gecko 201X drives. I've done a bunch of retrofits on old machines and it's always easier to just start with new electronics rather than trying to get old, outdated stuff working. If you need a new motor power supply, Keling has pretty good deals on unregulated supplies.
Why do you need 2 parallel ports? Mach supports 6 axes. If you have X, A (slaved to X), Y, Z, and your basic limits, home and estop, you shouldn't need a second PP. If you do have a lot of additional inputs, the PMDX-126 has inputs for a second PP. In that case you would need a second PP in the PC.
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Just remember you have two VFD drives to control. Is there a BOB that controls two spindle VFD drives?
I second rrc1962 on scrapping the axis electronic. The older ones can be hard to find the manuals and wire connections. I would only keep the old if you can find the information on your old drives. At least you need a BOB to interface with new computer.
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If the old computer does use a parallel port then there should only be a need to use a newer computer with a parallel port, ie no need for new BOBs or anything.
Yes new hardware would likely improve things further but if on a budget just find the pinouts of the ports and use them in Mach.
If upgrading I would consider servos rather than steppers.
Hood
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A new computer is a definite. Its to old to run the copy of Artcam that the owner has. The current setup is running off of 2 add on parallel port cards and not using the one built into the motherboard. The router has 2 Perske 7.5hp motors on it with a separate stepper controlling each one. Everything is labeled as w,x,y, and z. None of the steppers are slaved together. I have found the manual for the stepper driver. The driver has its own power supply built into it. Will mach control the dual perske motors? My buddy is footing the bill and he will get what ever I tell him to get. I personally would have not bought the machine but its to late as he already has. I would like to get it converted for him without a lot of headaches.
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So you have X, Y, and 2 Z axes. Mach can control both Z's. That's 4 axes and Mach is capable of 6. Most BOB's are set up to handle 4 axes. I like PMDX products, so if it were me, I'd call Steve at PMDX and ask him if there is a way you can run two of his VFD boards on a single BOB.
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So you still think I should change out everything and dump the $1500 Anaheim driver and go with the 201's?
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I would, unless the Anaheim drive is up to date. If it costs $1500 10 years ago, that pretty much makes it obsolete today. I've always used Geckos, so that's my comfort zone. I know they perform and it there's a problem, the solution is a phone call away. Same goes with PMDX.
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As said if upgrading go the servo route, steppers are ok but acceleration is very poor on them, just do a search for corner rounding ;)
Personally if all is needed is a new computer with two ports thats what I would do at least to get it running and get used to it, then you can spend money later to make it better.
Two spindles can not be controlled from Mach by default, you can do various things to make it work though but that is why I say get it working the way it is now and things will be clearer when you see how it works.
Hood
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I built my machine from scratch so redoing the whole thing would be that big of a deal. I am just not wanting to spend that much time on doing it even though the guy is paying me to get it running.
I think I will just try out the new computer to see if it will work. Does anyone have any more information on how to get Mach to run the two spindles? Would it be best to just remove one of them?
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You could put in a contactor to switch between the two spindles. Unless you need both of them though, probably makes more sense to remove one.
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With no coolent the M07, M08, and M09 commands would be open. This could be use to control the second spindle. The spindle direction outputs could be tied to the enable circuts. Could we use the speed signal for both? The M code for the spindle enable would only allow one two run. A type of relay logic to revent both from coming on?
Just remove on until you get running.
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Mach can only output one set of speed control signals. The command "S1000" would set the spindle speed and send pulse stream to the VFD interface board accordingly. If you only want on and off, then I suppose you could set up relays on other outputs and just set one of the VFD's for a set RPM.
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Best thing is to find out how the VFD is controlled at the moment, mechanical swapover like rrd mentioned may be the way to do it. I would keep it on the machine even if at the moment its not going to be used as Rev4 of Mach is supposed to have support for multiple spindles.
Hood
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We have decided to gut the machine and rewire the whole thing and run just one spindle. Does anyone have any recommendations on a retrofit kit.
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This is going to be a headache....The steppers on the table are nema 34's with 3/8" shafts. I can't find a 34 kit with 3/8 shafts. These machines were also built with 23's. cncrouterparts has the G50 kit with nema 23's that have 3/8 shafts. The 23's lack about 60oz of torque but the table is geared with belt and pulleys. The problem is that with the g540 it won't control my vfd which requires a digital input to control it. G540 is analog. What can I do now. Can I use a pmdx board to control the vfd and the g540 to run the steppers?
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Your existing motors should work fine...as long as they are still operational. The based on the photo you posted of the motor, Gecko G201X drives will work. A power supply in the 36-48V range and a PMDX-126 BOB should finish it off. To figure your power supply current, add up the current draw on the three motors and take 2/3 of that. Since the Z is usually smaller than the X and Y, I usually just add the X and Y and go with that. It's always worked. If your motors are gear or belt reduced and you need fairly high RPM, you might want to stay on the high side on the voltage range.
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I don't know if they still work, 16-18 years old. I think I should go ahead and replace the now with something more up to date.
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OK...Why do you need 3/8" shafts then? If the existing motors are NEMA 34 then replace them with NEMA 34. If all you can find is a 1/2"shaft, buy a new motor pulley or bore out the old one. If you go to NEMA 23 motors, you'll have to make new motor mounts.
Personally, I give it a shot with the old motors. It won't cost you anything to try. If they don't work, then replace them. You'll use the same drives, power supply and BOB regardless.
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The 3/8's shaft slip into a 1/2 split shaft with a clamp collar on it. The 1/2" shaft the goes through a bearing mounted on the gantry upright. The motor mount accept either the 23 or the 34, no need for new ones. The 34's on the machine have a 3/8" shaft.
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Well after a lot of thought I am going to change everything out in this old machine and go with the following. Any thought before I purchase this stuff is appreciated.
PMDX 133 Motherboard
PMDX 126 BOB
PMDX 107
3 Gecko 201's
Nema 34's from Keling
KL34H280-55-4A
New license for Mach
Any ideas on what size power supply that I will need? Will I need a 12v or 5v wall wart to hook any of this stuff up?
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The 126 takes a 110VAC supply, the 107 plugs into the option slot on the 126 and needs no separate power supply and the 133 needs no power supply...other than your DC motor power. Nothing on your list needs a 5 or 12V supply. To figure your power supply, add up the current on all your motors and take 2/3 of that. The motor you have chosen draws 5.5A. 5.5 x 3 = 16.5. 2/3 of that is roughly 11A. Don't go less than 11A. A KL-4813 should work fine.
The general rule on voltage is to use 10 - 25 times your motors rated voltage. Your motor voltage rating is 2.4V, so 48V puts you right at 20X. For lower RPM applications you can stay on the low side. Higher RPM requires higher voltage to maintain torque at the higher RPM. I've always tried to stay right around the 20X mark and it's always worked.
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Thanks for all of your help!
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Does the current set resistor need to be set at 5.5 on the 201?
I just went through the manual for the 201 and found it, It needs to be on 5.6, no 5.5 on the 201
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The 201X has dip switches to set the current. Leave the resistor terminals open and set the dip switches. Go with 5.4.