Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: rcaffin on January 15, 2012, 04:12:50 AM
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Hi all
I'm wondering whether anyone else has seen this problem. (I tried searching for it, but ...)
Sometimes, shortly after starting Mach and loading a program, I will be trying to move or zoom the tool path and Mach will just disappear. No Q about 'do i really want to quit' or anything, just blip and it is gone.
But! It is still there in the Task Monitor process list, and trying to restart Mach always fails without explanation. Trying to kill the existing Mach process also fails (which is really wierd!).
When this happens Mach also loses contact with the SmoothStepper, and fixing that is a pain. With the Ethernet SS I actually have to cycle the power on the CNC to reboot the ESS. But a similar problem was happening with the USB SS.
Or is it just me?
Cheers
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I had that problem with a test version of Mach I was using, it wasnt just random however it was if I opened the NFS wizards. Not had it since that version.
What version are you using? I know it wont be the same one I had issues with but I could try it and see if it happens to me as well.
Hood
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3.043.022
Current?
Cheers
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Will try that when I get to the workshop tomorrow and see.
Hood
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If you run drivertest.exe after it disappears, it should kill the task and allow you to restart. You might want to try the development version to see if it works better. Sounds like Mach3 doesn't like your PC.
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I had something similar happen a few times to a customer. He would be running a part (somethign that took many hours to run) and come back to find that Mach had shut down. I also could not turn up anything in searches.
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If you run drivertest.exe after it disappears, it should kill the task and allow you to restart.
I will try that the next time.
Sounds like Mach3 doesn't like your PC.
Fairly new Dell Vostro 230, dual processor, >2GHz, 3 Gbyte, and the processor activity is usually <10% when running Mach. If Mach does not like that, then I think Mach just might need a few bug fixes.
Cheers
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Did you try the development version?
Another thing is to look in the bios for a setting, either C1E or EIST, and disable it.
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Hi Gerry
Did you try the development version?
No, I haven't. I am trying to get some work done and the implications of the notes were that the dev version might crash. I may have misread this of course - I don't know. I would appreciate your advice here.
Another thing is to look in the bios for a setting, either C1E or EIST, and disable it.
Frankly, I have extreme doubts that clock speed has anything whatsoever to do with the problem. Let me explain.
This disappearing act only happens (as far as I know) shortly after Mach has been started. Typically I will have just loaded a g-code file and be moving the mouse around the display window to check the path. Poof, and the whole Mach window is gone.
Reasons I think it is some very strange Mach problem and not a clock problem include:
It only happens to Mach, and usually just after starting.
It only happens (I think) when I am mousing around the path display.
It leaves part of the Mach process in memory and UNKILLABLE.
It interacts with the ESS driver, crashing the ESS.
It does not kill the ethernet interface in the ESS because when that happens Windows reports a loss of network.
We know Mach is trying to subvert Windows a bit to get reliable Real-Time performance: I have this gut feeling that the problem is down there somewhere. No evidence, just 40 years experience at the hardware level.
Cheers
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Not a pro here but a thought as it sounds like a video conflict.
Do you have onboard video? Have you tried turning off the toolpath display to see if that's it?
Dave
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Not a pro here but a thought as it sounds like a video conflict. Do you have onboard video? Have you tried turning off the toolpath display to see if that's it?
Hum .... thing is, the rest of the video system runs absolutely OK. I can photo-edit or run WMV with no problems after Mach disappears. But I will check if I can.
Mind you, that path display is essential during debugging!
Cheers
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If it happens to me I think I will be able to tell Brian where to look, so fingers crossed ;)
Hood
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Not a pro here but a thought as it sounds like a video conflict. Do you have onboard video? Have you tried turning off the toolpath display to see if that's it?
Hum .... thing is, the rest of the video system runs absolutely OK. I can photo-edit or run WMV with no problems after Mach disappears. But I will check if I can.
Mind you, that path display is essential during debugging!
Cheers
Understood, just trying to help dbug this for you as it might give clues.
Dave
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If it happens to me I think I will be able to tell Brian where to look, so fingers crossed ;)
I noticed that on the Yahoo Group Artsoft *seem* to be putting huge amounts of effort into some very peripheral and debatable features or extensions for a couple of users rather than focusing on fixing the core problems in Mach for the vast bulk of customers. And some long-term Mach users seem to be getting a bit fed up with this. A bit like MS pushing more unwanted features into the next release rather than fixing the bugs in the current release. That concerns me. Any comment?
Cheers
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My comments are well documented on that subject ;)
But just for you, I hate it when I see people moaning about getting things fixed up in Mach3 as it tends to break something else totally unrelated. I would rather Mach be locked down as it is and Mach Rev4 concentrated on. According to Brian the way Mach Rev4 will be written means its all modules and fixing something wont break something else.
But thats just the way I feel and it is also the reason I have not nagged constantly to get Turn sorted and believe me there are a lot that needs to be done in it ;)
A new programmer started at the turn of the year so hopefully things will progress more quickly with Rev4.
If you want go back to an old version of Mach and see if it still happens, cant remember exactly where I think the issue may have crept in but f its what I am thinking then I will be able to pin point it when I get to the mill tomorrow.
Hood
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My comments are well documented on that subject ;)
Um - well, yes, I had noticed. Time Artsoft listened. :-)
I would rather Mach be locked down as it is and Mach Rev4 concentrated on. According to Brian the way Mach Rev4 will be written means its all modules and fixing something wont break something else.
If it is *not* modular right now then yes, I totally agree. That's the same problem MS have with Windows of course.
I do remember when DEC completely rewote their mainframe VMS OS many years for V5. The problems with V4 were well-known, and basically insoluble due to unstructured internal complexity. V5 was re-written from scratch in a hard-line modular micro-kernel form. A long wait, but so worth while. VMS is now used behind the scenes in banks, stock exchanges, nuclear reactors, USA destroyers and aircraft carriers, and is unbreakable and unhackable. The computer science community is still 'reinventing' the basic features which were in VMS, but 95% of them only know Windows. </rant> :-)
If you want go back to an old version of Mach and see if it still happens, cant remember exactly where I think the issue may have crept in but f its what I am thinking then I will be able to pin point it when I get to the mill tomorrow.
Thanks.
Cheers
Roger
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Ok have just done some tests here. I dont get the issue on the home computer but did get it when I was trying out a test version for Brian on the Mill.
. Anyway version 043.022 should be a good indicator of whether the issue is related to what I am thinking it may be, if it works fine then I will let Brian know where to look, if it doesnt help then its obviously a different issue than I was thinking it could be.
As far as I know Mach is just a load of code all bundled together, it started off small and things added over the years and now is massive. I am not a programmer and know absolutely nothing about the subject so I can only go on what I am told :)
Hood
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Anyway version 043.022 should be a good indicator of whether the issue is related to what I am thinking it may be
Yup, that's the version I am running. Go get 'im!
As far as I know Mach is just a load of code all bundled together, it started off small and things added over the years and now is massive.
Time for a fundamental redesign and rewrite of the entire beast. The core design needs to be redone. Painful, expensive, but ultimately the only thing which can save it.
Yes, I have done everything from CPU hardware design to device driver design and programming to most everything going upwards from there. Great fun, albeit sometimes verging on burn-out territory, but fortunately I was my own manager!
Cheers
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You can always re-boot the USB or Ethernet SmoothStepper by unplugging the power cable.... I've probably had Mach3 crash and/or wierd out more times than most people, but I've never seen it in a state where it couldn't be killed by selecting it in the task list (NOT the applications list) in Task Manager.
Regards,
Ray L.
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Hi Ray
You can always re-boot the USB or Ethernet SmoothStepper by unplugging the power cable....
Well, yes, but the installation does not have a power switch on the ESS! Very few rigs would I think. So I have to cycle the CNC power, with the possible loss of registration.
I've never seen it in a state where it couldn't be killed by selecting it in the task list (NOT the applications list) in Task Manager.
I selected and 'killed' it 4-6 times in the process list (not the Application list), to no avail. Rather wierd, actually.
Do I blame Mach, or Windows (or me)?
Cheers
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Oh Ok well if thats the version you are using then its not the issue I am thinking as it is not in that revision. I will still test 022 out on the wee pico mobo and see but my thoughts are it will be fine. With the test version I could kill Mach easily just by starting the NFS wizards, it didnt happen 100% of the time but must have been high 90%.
Hood
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Ok I have done some tests and 043.022 seems fine for me, the development is not, it disappears completely.
I know the test version and the development have the same thing in them that was causing me issues but 043.022 doesnt so I will let Brian know and it may help you if he can get it fixed.
There are a few differences though, when Mach disappears for me I do see a message, its too quick to read but I see the box for a fraction of a second. Also Mach completely closes, it is not left in apps or proc in task manager so that again is different.
Not sure when Brian will be back, should be today but may not be online until tomorrow.
Hood
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Hi Ray
You can always re-boot the USB or Ethernet SmoothStepper by unplugging the power cable....
Well, yes, but the installation does not have a power switch on the ESS! Very few rigs would I think. So I have to cycle the CNC power, with the possible loss of registration.
Unplug the power cable FROM the ESS, or the USB cable from the USS. Both have connectors, so are easy to disconnect.
Regards,
Ray L.
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Hi Ray
Unplug the power cable FROM the ESS, or the USB cable from the USS. Both have connectors, so are easy to disconnect.
Ha! You haven't seen the compact compressed rat's nest the builder made of the electronics on my rig. I am not sure there is a power connector for the ESS: I think it gets power through one of the headers. I didn't build this!
I have to pull the whole electronics crate out of the cupboard and remove a complex cover first. Getting access to the ESS takes about 15-20 minutes. I didn't build this!
Cheers