Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => SmoothStepper USB => Topic started by: Hood on November 16, 2011, 11:26:31 AM
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Got an Ethernet SmoothStepper (ESS) the other day from Greg to test out. I messed about with it a bit at home and all seemed fine so today I had a chance to fit it to one of my machines. I decided on the lathe for two reasons, first is lathes will be in a minority of users and secondly I only had one wire to shift.
The reason I needed to shift a wire at all is that the ESS has port 3 similar to ports 1 and 2 and not like the USB SS with only 6 inputs (3 being differential which Iwill miss :( ) But the extra I/O of a full port I am sure will be welcomed by most.
Ok so got it set up in no time, all seemed to work fine on a dry run so decided to cut a part I have been doing recently, its a lid for an aluminium housing for use in the North Sea attached to mini subs.
It is 70mm OD and the thread is 60mm x 1.5 pitch and hole inside is 45mm ID 44mm deep.
Came out perfect so I was happy.
Will be testing a bit more in the next few days but not expecting any issues :)
Hood
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I got an Ethernet SmoothStepper from Greg, too. I have it on a BP clone with 4 axis, X/Y, Z quill, A knee, servos. It was pretty straightforward to setup. I was on a USB SmoothStepper. I installed an Intel PCI 10/100/1000 NIC, set it up per Greg's suggestion for Static IP on 10.9.9.8, subnet 255.255.255.0. The ESS is preset for 10.9.9.9, but CAN be changed. The ESS writes a new section to the Mach3 XML, so it takes a restart to get that going. You'll need to re-setup your SS config settings, or at least check them and restart. Greg is working on a smoother transition for UPGRADERS from USB SS here. I run Windows 7 32 bit, and I THINK I had to disable the Windows Firewall to get the ESS setup, but I'm not certain of the steps I was taking so I'm not absolutely certain I couldn't have gotten thru it without turning off the firewall. In any case, I have the Windows Firewall enabled now, as normal and everything is working fine.
I did NOT try to set this up by simply plugging it into my home network, like on a switch or directly to the router. I have it running on it's own separate network/subnet. This seems the best way to do this, and it's what Greg seems to recommend.
All in all, a great looking new and more noise tolerant SmoothStepper.
Tom
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Good to hear its working fine for you as well. I have been using and testing quite a bit the last few days and have not managed to make it fall over yet which is impressive. I deliberately faulted a servo to see what would happen and I got a Run Out Of Data message but unlike the USB SS all I had to do was reset and re-home (in case I had lost position) and I was back on track. With the USB SS I would have needed to restart Mach to recover from that.
I have been running at the full 4KHz communication frequency and feedhold is very good :)
I am liking this ESS very much and only wish someone would come up with a BOB that used all 3 ports of the ESS and had differential output option for step/dir, also a few differential inputs for index and maybe encoders and then the rest of the I/O capable of 24v. Oh and a couple of analogue inputs as well would be nice ;D May have to try and make something up like that for myself.
Hood
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The new ESS has the same footprint as the old one, so upgrading is easy. I am not sure there is a real need to a 3 port BOB, as it can plug to existing 2 port boards and a ribbon cable can be used for 2nd port. Let's say you want to connect a pendant, a breakout board with +24vdc logic, or just expanding I/Os.
This picture is of the board connected to a C32 board.
I tested most of the functions, and all tested ok.
Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com
(http://)
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Wow, cool news! I'm running an USB SS now and am mostly happy with it.
Please tell Greg to write a proper complete manual for it as I know that many are hesitant to buy one because of the apparent lack of support, unfinished product etc.
I will buy one for my next machine when you guys give it a green light!
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The new ESS has the same footprint as the old one, so upgrading is easy. I am not sure there is a real need to a 3 port BOB, as it can plug to existing 2 port boards and a ribbon cable can be used for 2nd port. Let's say you want to connect a pendant, a breakout board with +24vdc logic, or just expanding I/Os.
This picture is of the board connected to a C32 board.
I tested most of the functions, and all tested ok.
Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com
(http://)
Arturo, I THINK you meant use a ribbon cable for the 3rd port, at least that shows on your pic. But where does it go? To some other BOB, so one would need 2 BOBS, one for port 1/2, and one for port 3? I think what Hood was wanting was a single BOB that would use all 3 ports.
Tom
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Or more precisely a BOB that has 3 ports, 24v I/O for most things, 5v differential outputs for Step/Dir, 5 Differential inputs for Index, MPG and maybe a few encoders and the icing would be a couple of analogue inputs ;D
Think I will have to make one up myself if I get brave enough ;D
Hood
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I am very aware of how each person has these specific needs for features in a BOB. That is why I ended up with more than 15 different BOBs. The nice thing of the 3rd port, is that it enables further customizing without sacrificing other features. What you want is all very doable with the boards we currently have.
Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com
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Arturo,
could you possibly point me to the Bobs you have with the differential outs/Ins and 24v I/O?
Hood
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Hood,
Here is the breakout category: http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/index.php?cPath=33.
This one has +24vdc outputs:http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=245. Nice for LPT3 on the ESS.
Do not have the differential to single ended converter, and I think it is a must to have, since it was removed from the new ESS and I am sure some will want to have it for connecting the spindle encoder on lathes.
Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com
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Thanks Arturo, will check it out.
In addition to differential inputs I also would like differential outputs for Step/Dir on a board but I realise I am probably in the minority. I have made my own up for the machines I run and I think an all in one solution would be good for me and I think the only way I would likely get that is to make my own so I will probably end up going that route.
Hood
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Hood,
You might want to check this line driver out:
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/CUI-102E-10/102-1787-ND/1923401
It is designed to be used with AMT encoders, but no reason you can't use it to drive your servos.
Dan
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Thanks for that Dan, I will most probably just make up a bob or more likely a few different ones for each port.I already made up a differential out board for the Scorpions Step/Dir outputs so will modify it a bit so that there are also a few differential ins and that will be port 1 taken care of. I am then thinking of making a 24v I/O board for ports 2 and 3, probably one will have a couple of analogue ins for FRO and SRO.
Heres a pic of the one I made for the scorpion, works out fairly expensive getting pcb's done in small numbers but if it suits my exact needs then its worth the price, will probably go surface mounts on the new ones while my eyes are still good enough to solder ;D
Hood
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I am then thinking of making a 24v I/O board for ports 2 and 3, probably one will have a couple of analogue ins for FRO and SRO.
How are you going to handle the analogue inputs?
Heres a pic of the one I made for the scorpion, works out fairly expensive getting pcb's done in small numbers
Still cheaper than isolation routing them yourself?
Dan
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Brett has recently been messing around with the Arduino and we are thinking of incorporating it into a BOB for analogues and maybe a few other things.
Routing would likely be cheaper but certainly not so easy and if time and hassle was taken into account I think getting them done professionally is cheaper, add to that they look better, have solder masks, silk screen, double sided etc etc.
I made 4 of them up and the boards cost me about £70 for the 4 If I recall correctly, bigger quantities bring the price way down but thats not what I am wanting or caring about, I just want something that will be exactly what I am after.
Hood
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Hood,
Please note that analogs are easily handled with the pokeys:http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/index.php?cPath=54 and differential outputs can be handled with this converter: http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=64&products_id=337.
Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com
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Thanks Arturo, they look good but I am really wanting an integrated unit rather than bits added together. I will likely be using the ESS on all my machines and Brett likely will as well so, I think, if we get 9 or 10 boards made up for ourselves it will be well worth it. Will cost a bit more than off the shelf boards but will be exactly tailored to the drives and other hardware we use.
Hood
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Brett has recently been messing around with the Arduino and we are thinking of incorporating it into a BOB for analogues and maybe a few other things.
Hood,
But you can't establish the communication between the Arduino and Mach over the ESS. So you'd need to connect a cable direct from the Arduino to the PC. Or am I wrong?
What advantages does it give you over a Pokeys?
Dan
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Dan I dont know anything about it as yet, Bretts the guy thats been mentioning it and talking at 100mph in an excited fashion about it ;D
Hood
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Oh BTW I will be using a Ethernet Pokeys on the wee lathe along with its keyboard so analogue will likely be used on it from the PoKeys.
Hood
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Ah... OK Hood :) Just thought you found a way to somehow incorporate it on your BOB, but looks like you'd still run another (serial?) cable to your PC. So still looks like a Pokeys is a better way to go.
Dan
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Only drawback to PoKeys is its 5v I/O but as long as its close to the switches or whatever that shouldnt be an issue. The Ethernet version is even better I think and it is what I would use if using the PoKeys on any other machines.
Will see if I can calm Brett down enough to get some sense out of him rather than the excited gibberish ;D
Hood
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;D
The Arduino does look very capable and flexible indeed, but it's a bit like reinventing the wheel when trying to achieve with it what the Pokeys already does and is specifically designed for.
Dan
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Brett was talking about all sorts of things which the PoKeys cant do but will have to talk with him more to see whats involved.
Hood
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Hi,
I've been doing a bit of testing with the ESS myself. I have it running alongside a prototype of my new ModIP. The ModIP provides modbus over Ethernet, and adds a lot of new functionality. Together, they should allow for a really nice Ethernet driven system.
I'm still working out the final form factor(s) for the board. That the difficult part. :)
Cheers,
Peter.
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Good to here the ESS is working well for you, so far its been bullet proof for me.
Hood
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LOL
Will see if I can calm Brett down enough to get some sense out of him rather than the excited gibberish
Hood
That is true Hood. At this point it's just excited thinking out loud. The potential a well designed BOB would have with its on microprocessor just makes me a little giddy. :) It's practicality is still to be decided though.
I also need to apologize for a few things. One is I had forgot today is Thanksgiving
Happy Thanksgiving everybody!!
Two is that Thanksgiving eve I was to tent camp with my boys and some friends and get up this morning and go deer hunting. :)
Three, is that we didn't get a deer. :(
Four is the fact that I have had 4 hours sleep in the past 55 hours and still have a turkey to eat this evening. :( ;D
I hope to catch you this evening.
Brett
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I took the top of one of my STDR-4C controllers, swapped in an ESS for the USB SmoothStepper, set it all up with four steppers and a long Ethernet cable wrapped up in the Stepper cables. Then I ran it and ran it and ran it and it did not miss a beat. Next I carted everything out to the shop to try something 'noisier'. (As my daughter saw me carrying stuff to the shop she asked what I was doing and I said, "I'm going to try and break this board with the plasma cutter". You should have seen the horrified look on her face :) . Then I explained that I was not really not going to cut the board...)
I fired off my plasma cutter within 6" of the bare ESS board and it still worked fine. Even firing it for 30 seconds did not stop the ESS, the Ethernet cable was picking up the interference, the ESS compensated though and completed all moves! I've worked with about all the name brand CNC controls for plasma systems and don't know of another that would have kept working in similar conditions.
The changeover from the USB SS to the ESS is really simple. They are the same form factor and one plugs in in place of the other. As Hood mentioned Port3 is now a full port but otherwise it looks/feels the same and is easy to set up/use. Greg manage to pack a lot more hardware on the same PCB this time so I'm sure we will all have our socks knocked of with future enhancements.
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Good to hear Jeff, I think Greg has done a very nice job with these, I did like the USB one and never really had any noise related issues but the ESS is much nicer :)
One other difference is you must supply 5v to the ESS, not a problem for me as I already did that for the USB SS but some others may have just used USB power to supply the USB SS.
Hood
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That is a good point Hood, you do need an external 5V power source.
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I left my ESS inside my computer box where the USB SS lived. No problem finding 5v in there!!
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I left my ESS inside my computer box where the USB SS lived. No problem finding 5v in there!!
I'm redesigning the back panel of my shortly to be released "ready to run" enclosure. The current configuration for the USS (USB SmoothStepper) uses a USB panel mount extension lead.
The new design will have the ESS and USS mount againt the back panel so that the LED indicators are accessible and visible. I will hopefully have that done this week.
Attached is an image of the current back panel.
I'm also designing a stand-alone enclosure for the ESS to provide any easy way of upgrading from a parallel
to Smooth Stepper without having to modify existing Controller enclosures.
Cheers,
Peter.
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Well I still have not been able to get the ESS to fail, time to devise more evil testing procedures >:D
I did get the new SSENC-2 finished up though. I have been building the USB version (SSENC-1) for more than a year now. Since the new ESS and the USB version share the same footprint only the back panel had to be modified. I've been toying with the idea of making a 2" longer enclosure available. The end panels would the same the increased depth would provide room for adding a few operator controls like using out EZ-MPG1 for SRO and/or DRO controls.
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Any news of when it will be for sale?
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Greg was hoping later this month, he is currently making a test bed for checking them so hopefully it will be soon as I want a few more especially if I manage to make the differential and 24v I/O bobs ;D
Hood
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Does the SS support SwapAxis(). I was leanining toward the KFlop for my new router, but it looks like the new SS and a PMDX-126 might be the way to go.
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Yes, or at least the SS does and I would imagine the ESS would but if you give me 5 mins I will test it out for you.
Hood
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Yes it definitely does :)
Hood
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I jumped on here to ask about ESS swapaxis, so I have that answer, thanks!
Does anyone know if the ESS can co-exist with TCP modbus? (I will take time later to read this entire thread, but for now I would much appreciate an answer to this if anyone knows).
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Afraid my PLCs are via serial so cant say for sure if it would be ok but I can say I have an Ethernet PoKeys and I have used that with the Ethernet SS whilst testing the PoKeys encoder inputs and it was fine.
Hood
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I jumped on here to ask about ESS swapaxis, so I have that answer, thanks!
Does anyone know if the ESS can co-exist with TCP modbus? (I will take time later to read this entire thread, but for now I would much appreciate an answer to this if anyone knows).
Yes,
It works fine with Modbus TCP/IP devices. I've tested it with my ModIP prototypes.
Cheers,
Peter
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I've heard nothing about the ESS, and mine is working great!! Curious when it will go on sale. Also curious if any of you other testers have gotten a newer plugin from Greg.
One thing I learned over the last few days. AV software can block the ESS somehow, and not even tell you!! I recently installed Webroot SecureAnywhere Complete. Strangely, on first start, Mach would see the ESS just fine. Shut Mach down and try to restart, it couldn't find the ESS. No amount of fiddling, reconfiguring, anything, would fix it. Only shutting the ESS power off and restarting it fixed it. Next Mach start, it was fine, next start no go. No warnings from anything. Shut the AV down, it worked great. I was too lazy to try and figure it out so I uninstalled Webroot and went back to Vipre, now it's fine.
These modern AV software packages are going too far trying to be unobtrusive. This Webroot never tells you anything, just blocks/quarantines/does it's thing with ZERO messages!! I imagine I can turn warnings on somehow, but IMHO, they've crossed to the other side of the line from totally obnoxious no not obnoxious enough.
Oh, and if you're going to warn me about running my machine control computer hooked to the internet, save it for anothert time ;) I've been thoroughly warned many times and I still do it, still will. I only mention the above because I MIGHT NOT be the only one!
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I believe it is on sale, certainly CNC4PC has it listed for sale and I know someone who bought one from them.
Still on the same plugin here, its the one I got when I first got the ESS and no issues so not really looking for an update ;D
AVG works fine for me on my machines, I have them all networked, they cant access the internet but my desktop can so there is a chance that something could get onto them and thus I have anti virus installed.
Hood
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Thanks, Hood, I hadn't seen it on CNC4PC!
I know, this ESS just works, it's amazing. This is really the FIRST piece of my CNC building experience that just works, right out the box, V1 plugin and all. Great stuff.
I was mostly curious if Greg had spiffed up the interface for the configurator and stuff. Got to thinking about that yesterday with my AV issue!! I got that warning that it couldn't find the ESS a hundred times and it just got me thinking is all!!
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It works fine with Modbus TCP/IP devices. I've tested it with my ModIP prototypes.
Thanks, Peter.
Couple Q's;
Are you going to be selling the 'ESS'?
Any plans to make a custom BOB for it? As long as I'm asking, how about one with differential signal outputs?
Any plans to offer a general purpose PLC pre-configured with TCP modbus?
I am just finishing up my long overdue 4th axis motor controller. It is 2,000 lines of C code running on an Arduino Mega board. I have it working with vanilla serial Modbus and also with TCP modbus. TCP modbus would be preferable, theoreticaly, but I read here and elsewhere that TCPmodbus in MACH is unstable. Can you offer an opinion on that?
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The ESS is on sale now! I also have shielded Ethernet panel mount cables, shielded Ethernet cables, 5V power supplies, etc:
http://www.soigeneris.com/Ethernet_SmoothStepper-details.aspx (http://www.soigeneris.com/Ethernet_SmoothStepper-details.aspx)
Also, complete plug-and-play Ethernet SmoothStepper boxes: http://www.soigeneris.com/SSENC_2_Ethernet_SmoothStepper_System-details.aspx (http://www.soigeneris.com/SSENC_2_Ethernet_SmoothStepper_System-details.aspx)
I'll have some photos up soon. It has been a busy week so I have not had time to snap some nice photos.
I was mostly curious if Greg had spiffed up the interface for the configurator and stuff.
He has been working on them. Not sure when new versions will be released though.
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Cool, Jeff, I haven't been even looking for ESS because my beta one is just working so I kind of ignore it!! A good thing.
I can't find the shielded ethernet PANEL MOUNT on your site, the one you mentioned here. How 'bout a link so I can buy one!!
Tom
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I'm happy to provide a link :)
Here are the sheileded Ethernet patch cables: http://www.soigeneris.com/Shielded_Ethernet_cables-details.aspx (http://www.soigeneris.com/Shielded_Ethernet_cables-details.aspx)
and, here are the shielded Ethernet panel mount cables: http://www.soigeneris.com/Ethernet_Panel_Mount_Cable-details.aspx (http://www.soigeneris.com/Ethernet_Panel_Mount_Cable-details.aspx)
oh, and the 5V power supplies: http://www.soigeneris.com/MeanWell_PS_05_Power_Supplies-details.aspx (http://www.soigeneris.com/MeanWell_PS_05_Power_Supplies-details.aspx)
The Panel Mount Ethenet cables are slick. The panel opening is just a little bigger than the USB version and the screw holes are almost the same as well. I was able to make one panel that works with either version of cable.
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Thanks, Hood, I hadn't seen it on CNC4PC!
I know, this ESS just works, it's amazing. This is really the FIRST piece of my CNC building experience that just works, right out the box, V1 plugin and all. Great stuff.
I was mostly curious if Greg had spiffed up the interface for the configurator and stuff. Got to thinking about that yesterday with my AV issue!! I got that warning that it couldn't find the ESS a hundred times and it just got me thinking is all!!
It works fine with Modbus TCP/IP devices. I've tested it with my ModIP prototypes.
Thanks, Peter.
Couple Q's;
Are you going to be selling the 'ESS'?
Any plans to make a custom BOB for it? As long as I'm asking, how about one with differential signal outputs?
Any plans to offer a general purpose PLC pre-configured with TCP modbus?
I am just finishing up my long overdue 4th axis motor controller. It is 2,000 lines of C code running on an Arduino Mega board. I have it working with vanilla serial Modbus and also with TCP modbus. TCP modbus would be preferable, theoreticaly, but I read here and elsewhere that TCPmodbus in MACH is unstable. Can you offer an opinion on that?
I have some on the way. I should have them in stock early next week.
At to TCP Modbus and Mach3 , I've found no stability issues with it. I've been testing it with a ModIP prototype unit for some months now.
Cheers,
Peter
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I just got a smooth stepper ethernet and followed the instructions at http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/Ethernet_Smooth_Stepper.html to set it up. I set it up using the Mach3 Milling profile. I have never used Mach3 and won't even have my CNC machine until later this week but am trying to have everything prepared so I can start playing with it right away.
The smoothstepper seemed to connect just fine, a bunch of lights come on the board, powering it with my arduino, might use the arduino later to add some sensors and such.
Anyways, should I resume the instructions from the USB board http://warp9td.com/documentation/SmoothStepperUserManualV1.0.pdf to configure Mach3 for this? There was no Mach3 configuration document for the Ethernet board from what I received. I need to know the kHz settings etc, is it the same as the USB board?
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Yes, setting max axis KHz is just the same, also for controller frequency I would try at 2KHz first, maybe 4KHz will be fine, it is for me, but some people have reported occasional drop outs at the 4KHz.
Hood
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So I should be fine following the 2008 instructions for the USB mode for those settings yah? For now at least. Also I am running this on Windows 7 64Bit
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Hood,
Think you meant to say MHz for controller frequency ;)
Dan
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Hood,
Think you meant to say MHz for controller frequency ;)
Dan
No Dan I meant to say what I said ;)
Hood
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The settings will be pretty much like the USB version, but be aware that the ONLY SS doc out there is very old and the screen doesn't even LOOK like the screenshot in the doc any more!!
You will definately be able to get help here or on Warp9td if necessary.
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Sorry, Hood. Confused it with axis frequency.
Dan
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No probs Dan, wouldnt be the first time I was wrong but, unusually, on this occasion I was right ;D
While you are here, any news on the new rev of Dolphin?
Hood
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No. No news since the last time, Hood :(
Dan
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Ok was just wondering as they were sending me out a demo of it in a couple of weeks they said, its been over a month and I have not got it. Sounds like their time is set on programmers time ;D
Hood
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Yes. Looks so :D Usual time terms often don't work for R&D.
Dan
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Does A axis homing work with the ESS?
I cannot get it to work at all with the USB version . . the A axis Home sensor light up on the Mach diag screen and the checkbox in SS data window toggles, but Mach just ignores the hit.
I have even manually hit the pin with 5V just in case the sensor signal was weak or of too short duration. Nada. Have tries several different pins on SS. Nada.
Works fine on PP.
Is this a known problem?
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Works for me. My A is linear, the knee on my BP clone. I've not had an issue USB or ESS. Sorry I can't be of more assistance!
Tom
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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.287541,-88.516837
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thanks y'all, I guess I will wait for my machine to come then I will play with it.
Another question,
The board has 4 female connections, 3 that can be connected to a parallel plug, which one do I use? I was thinking the one at the top, not any of the 2 on the side. Are the other 2 used to control multiple machines? I assume the 4th plug is for a different type of plug.
Also is it okay if I manually ground or apply 5V to some of these pins sticking out without it being connected to a parallel port? I want to play around with some of the pin settings on mach3 but don't want to mess anything up.
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It shouldn't matter which port you use on the ESS board as long as you set the correct port number (each port on the board is designated) in Mach3 Port and Pins. The 4th connector is an extension port for future use.
If I understand correctly your last question, you want to manually simulate inputs. You can do this. Use the 5V from the board supply.
Dan
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Works for me. My A is linear,
I should have been more specific. Rotary axis are more troublesome because the duration of the signal is very short.
The issue is resolved, in any case. The problem was noise on the signal line. I am using (for the moment) a special smoothstepper BOB made by CNC4PC. The BOB has filters on the inputs which might have contributed. Trying to run crap thru a crap filter is not a good process. I have had this smoothstepper in a box for about a year, and with the release of the new plug-in, I decided to give it another try. So while I have had it for quite a while, I am still a noobie and learning the quirks. The BOB, incidentally, has port 2 locked as inputs, which is probably OK for most setups, but I need outputs and so had to modify the board.
FWIW, the solution consisted of several changes. First, the inputs were pulled high. I don't know at this point if that is from the smoothstepper or the BOB but I had to put a 1K pulldown on the pin to shut it off, then drive thru it with the remainder of a 5V signal running thru a rather hungry opto. I have about 3.7V at the pin for the 'ON' signal and .68 for OFF. Not ideal, but it is working. In addition, I had to set the smoothstepper filter to a value of 1.0 and drop back to the previous plug-in (prior to the eb).
I am not satisfied completely with this solution and I would categorize it as a workaround. However, the 4th axis is homing now and I can get on with my project. I'm not giving up on the smoothstepper just yet, however, the BOB will be going away and having discovered how sensitive the smoothstepper is, I'll be providing separate super clean 5V power to it and pay close attention to the grounding.
New Q about the ESS: does the new board have the same annoying ultra persistent, un dismissable error splash screens as the USB version? That in itself would be reason enough to avoid it, in my view.
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New Q about the ESS: does the new board have the same annoying ultra persistent, un dismissable error splash screens as the USB version? That in itself would be reason enough to avoid it, in my view.
Don't think it's a board related thing, but rather a plugin one. I know what you mean and it used to happen quite often here with the previous plugins. With the latest one, this messages got very, very rare and still haven't had those you call in-dissmisible. This is with a USB board.
Dan
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HI guys
where can I get the software download for the ESS? Can't get any information from smothe stepper.
Thanks
Bill
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http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/Ethernet_Smooth_Stepper.html
No idea why, if these are actually for sale, the plugin isn't on the Warp9 site. So you bought an ESS and have no software or a hint where to get it? Huh...........
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Thats right just a board and a flat cable in a box.a
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Who did you buy it from?
Had someone else contact me for the plugin as they had bought one from CNC4PC and never got the plugin seems strange.
Hood
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I got it from Greg at warp9. I can't get any replay from them about anything.
Bill
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Seems strange, wonder if your emails are being seen as spam or something, will see if I can get hold of Greg and see if he will at least put up the plugin on the site.
If you need the plugin send me a pm with your email address and I will send it on.
Hood
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Thanks Hood
My E Mail is billbob21736@yahoo.com
The company is www.cncsteelcutting.com
Thanks
Bill
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Have sent the plugin and configurator.
Hood
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Thanks I will let you know how it go's
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The plugin is linked on the CNC4PC site, as linked in my post above. Not sure why they don't include it, or at least a little slip of paper with the link to download. There is a newer plugin, according to Greg, but he told me on the Warp9 forum that it REQUIRES Mach v057 and won't run without 057. I personally am having jog issues after an M6 with Mach 057, so can't use it.
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Thanks a lot thosj
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There is a new beta version of the plugin: http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/Ethernet_Smooth_Stepper.html.
It will only run with Mach R3.043.057 or newer.
Fixes MPG on LPT3, adds THC, and PWM proportional x,y speed for lasers.
Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com
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Hi everybody
I got the ESS working just great on our plasma tables, so far with no problems.
Thanks for your help.
Bill Wallace
www.cncsteelcutting.com
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Hi Bill,
That's great to hear. Greg lays his boards out very well. I would have been surprised if you had issues.
Cheers,
Peter.
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Hi to developer of ESS!
First of all great work, thanks.
I use ESS on a Emco FB2 with homemade stepper motor control and Mach3
My question is about home switch handling.
Three different home switches on my machine are in the middle of travel area.
They are activated by a ramp on x,y and z support so that they are in off position
on left half of travel and in on position on right half of travel.
Referencing with parallel port driver :
Case 1:
Support moves to the right if it is on left half of travel (ref switch is open)
After ref switch is activated, support moves little bit to left to free the switch.
Case 2:
Support moves to the left if it is in the right half of travel (ref switch is closed)
and stopped if ref switch is free.
So I never have to care if support is in left or right position of ref switch when referencing is performed.
Referencing with ESS:
Support always moves to right side without notice of ref switch status.
If ref switch is off, referencing is normal as described in case 1.
If ref switch is activated support travels left until axis limit is reached.
Maybe this is a bug in ESS plugin.
Regards,
Andreas.
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Hi to developer of ESS!
First of all great work, thanks.
I use ESS on a Emco FB2 with homemade stepper motor control and Mach3
My question is about home switch handling.
Three different home switches on my machine are in the middle of travel area.
They are activated by a ramp on x,y and z support so that they are in off position
on left half of travel and in on position on right half of travel.
Referencing with parallel port driver :
Case 1:
Support moves to the right if it is on left half of travel (ref switch is open)
After ref switch is activated, support moves little bit to left to free the switch.
Case 2:
Support moves to the left if it is in the right half of travel (ref switch is closed)
and stopped if ref switch is free.
So I never have to care if support is in left or right position of ref switch when referencing is performed.
Referencing with ESS:
Support always moves to right side without notice of ref switch status.
If ref switch is off, referencing is normal as described in case 1.
If ref switch is activated support travels left until axis limit is reached.
Maybe this is a bug in ESS plugin.
Regards,
Andreas.
Remark:
The line:
If ref switch is activated support travels left until axis limit is reached.
should be changed to:
If ref switch is activated support also travels right until axis limit is reached.
Andreas.
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Hi Andreas
I am not familiar with your with your machine.
I am using Hall effect switches and I am not having any homing problems.
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Do You use the hall effect switch at the ends of your machines travel or in the center of it.
I use ref switch so that it is closed all the right half of travel and is open all the left half.
With PP driver referencing starts from left to right if switch is open and right to left if switch is closed.
With ESS referencing starts always from right to left without notice of switch on or off.
Tested with identical settings in both cases.
Andreas.
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I sense at the end of the table and use softlimits for all other table limits.
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If this is the wrong area to post let me know (i am new here)..
I just received the Ethernet smooth-stepper..my question is I have also bought a break out board for i/o that physically slides onto port 1 and 2 of the smooth stepper..
I want to use port three as my port that goes to my gecko g540 is this possible or do i have to remain on port one(thus making my breakout board unusable)...
the break out board is a :
C25 - Smooth Stepper Terminal Board from CNC4PC..
I am hoping i just have to set the step port and dir port in "ports and pins" to 3 and 3 thus setting it to port three..
and maybe setting pins 2 thru 9 in the smooth-stepper to outputs(again in the smooth-stepper plugin config) on the port three ..
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Port 3 will work just like Port 1 or Port 2 so you can feel free to use it. You can use one of these adapters: http://www.soigeneris.com/DB25_M_M_Adapter-details.aspx (http://www.soigeneris.com/DB25_M_M_Adapter-details.aspx) to allow you to plug a LPH26 to DB25 cable directly into the G540.
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Been testing an ESS for a month or two now. In use most days.
Ran out of data once - increased the data buffer from 1 k to 2k (ESS config). Not seen that problem since.
Some Mach crashes, not ESS fault.
Big trouble with touch probe input for a while, but it turned out the BoB was set up very marginal and not driving the ESS reliably. Wierd symptoms, but all gone now I fixed the setup.
Beats the hell out of the USB SS I had - that used to crash about once a day. Purely imagination of course, but the ESS just seems to run a touch smoother too. My personal opinion is that the ESS is now industrial quality, while the SS was a bit temperamental.
Cheers
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rcaffin can you show where you increased that buffer by a screen print i can't seem to find it..
i am using version 10da2 of the ess pluggin..thanks
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I would hazard a guess that it is the controller frequency that is being talked about and usually setting higher if you have issues will make them worse so possibly it is not that setting.
Hood
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rcaffin can you show where you increased that buffer by a screen print i can't seem to find it..
i am using version 10da2 of the ess pluggin..thanks
Its under Plugin Control, something to do with ESS config, bottom left hand corner of screen.
Can't fire up actual CNC right now - big storm, brown-out on some phases of grid ... Running this machine on special mains.
I'll look later.
Cheers
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Again Referencing:
Tested with Mach R3.043.058 and ESS plugin ESS_v10da2.
Commands DoOEMButton(22) (23) and (24) are working fine.
Command RefCombination(x) is not working correct.
It is working with single axis (1,2,4,8...) argument but not with combination of them.
For example: RefCombination(3) moves only x axis,
RefCombination(6) moves only y axis.
Is this bug in ESS plugin?
Regards,
Andreas.
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Hi mach3user
See attached. BLHC, with '2000' in it. It came with 1024 in it I think.
Cheers
Roger
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thanks rcaffin will look into it on my system just waiting for better weather kinda cold in the garage but I am changing out the older USB smoothstepper with the Ethernet one since I have had intermittent stops due to noise that no matter what I tried it would not go away and the newer version is suppose to be more noise resistant(that and I have a c25 breakout board too)....
I think the plugin for the ess Needs a little more evolving but it's looks close enough for me so far..
:)
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since I have had intermittent stops due to noise that no matter what I tried it would not go away and the newer version is suppose to be more noise resistant
Same experience. Now immune to noise.
Cheers
Roger
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I got mach3 connected to the smoothstepper ethernet and it moves my Sieg KX3 axis fine but it does not turn on the spindle. Is there any settings I need to set for this?
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I got mach3 connected to the smoothstepper ethernet and it moves my Sieg KX3 axis fine but it does not turn on the spindle. Is there any settings I need to set for this?
I suspect that you don't have Mach set up with the right pin for whatever physical connection you have to the spindle. Detailed checking ...
Cheers
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Using the KX3 profile and it works fine on my desktop computer with a parallel port. Same setting for the pin no?
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Using the KX3 profile and it works fine on my desktop computer with a parallel port. Same setting for the pin no?
Actually, maybe not. I know Greg did make a few changes when he extended Port 3. Check at Warp9 web site.
Cheers
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Hmm right now its set in ports and pins config as
steppin# 14
dirpin # 16
Dir low active enabled
step low active enabled
step and dir port 1
Should I maybe play around with this setting?
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Did you choose one of the spindle options in SS config page?
Hood
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It seems to work now that I moved it to Step and Dir (4 pulse width) instead of Relay or PWM. Is 4 pulse width the correct number to put? I am using the Sieg KX3.
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I have a lower pulse width but I am using a high resolution servo for a spindle motor, you will likely be fine at the 4.
Hood
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Big trouble with touch probe input for a while, but it turned out the BoB was set up very marginal and not driving the ESS reliably. Wierd symptoms, but all gone now I fixed the setup.
I am having some issues with probing also. PDMX 132 BOB to ESS. Basically I cannot get the "Probe Active" LED to come on in Mach, unless I switch to "active high" on the ports and pins, at which point it goes green and stays green.
I get 3.8V on the touch plates dropping to 0.3 when it touches the spindle. I get the same 3.8 voltage when I compare the plate to a ground plug on my extension cord, so the spindle seems well grounded, even though it is a PC890 and double insulated with a two prong plug. I do have a ground wire running to the spindle but it isn't doing anything at the moment.
Breakout board seems to be powering the plate well enough.
Spindle seems well enough grounded to trip a TTL
I have the touchplate hooked to pin 15 on port 1. Configured pin 15 in Mach to "active low" and assigned it to "Probe". Seems pretty straightforward.
I wonder if this is something to do with the Smoothstepper not seeing and relaying the input signal to Mach. In the ESS data monitoring screen there are two options with checkboxes for the input pins; I tried both ways for pin 15 (but didn't restart Mach or ESS). Is there some other config option I should be looking at? The PDMX BOB is opto-isolated and inputs are filtered. Maybe switching to a CMOS (Port 2 apparently) from a TTL input port would help, though the CMOS seems more particular about the voltages it needs to trip...
Any ideas? Kind of driving me batty. Thanks.
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OK if I short the plate input to the ground on the BOB I can get the LED on the BOB to light up and guess what - the screen LED comes on also.
Apparently a 0.01 microFarad capacitor between the input and ground helps; I will see if I can find one today and report back.
It is odd because the input is not tripping low prematurely during the autozero routine; it just won't turn the BOB LED on at all unless I short the plate wire to the ground on the BOB itself. I tried touching the common ground wire on the cabinet, and the BOB LED would not light up. The BOB ground is wired directly to the power supply for the control, which goes to a ground plug in the wall and a rod jammed into the earth outside my garage. So I don't understand why the ground on the board is any better than the ground elsewhere inside the cabinet. Is my ground faulty somewhere?
Nothing I was doing before was lighting up the input LED on the PDMX BOB; looks like the Smoothstepper had nothing to do with it.
Comments still welcome.
Karl
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Thank goodness for Radio Shack. Unfortunately the capacitor makes no difference.
Given that the machine side of the BOB is at a different voltage than the computer side, I'm wondering how people get their cutting tool to the same voltage as the breakout board common pin. This seems to be what it takes to light the LED up.
Perhaps I will have to run a separate wire from the board all the way out to the spindle.
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I'm wondering how people get their cutting tool to the same voltage as the breakout board common pin. This seems to be what it takes to light the LED up.
Perhaps I will have to run a separate wire from the board all the way out to the spindle.
You don't want to try and use the machine itself as a current return path. Not only do all the bearings a sliding parts not make for a good conductor but if the machine is bonded to earth ground you are also running trying to run a low voltage return signal through earth ground (which is a bad idea all the way around).
I use a two lead cable with alligator clips. Clip one lead (the common) to the bit, clip the other to the part/tool touch plate.
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You don't want to try and use the machine itself as a current return path. Not only do all the bearings a sliding parts not make for a good conductor but if the machine is bonded to earth ground you are also running trying to run a low voltage return signal through earth ground (which is a bad idea all the way around).
I use a two lead cable with alligator clips. Clip one lead (the common) to the bit, clip the other to the part/tool touch plate.
I finally got it to work. Jeff it was your comment on some other thread about the breakout common voltage being different than the earth potential that put me on the right track. There is a lot of discussion about how you don't need a second wire if your machine is properly grounded, and I am here to tell everybody that is a load of poppycock.
The machine has a three wire power cord running to the spindle, which was connected to earth ground at the control box. Given that the spindle itself (PC 890) is double insulated and has no ground prong on its two conductor power cord, that ground wire from the control to the spindle was just sitting idle. There was no way I was going to run a third wire out there when I already had an unused one routed nicely through the cable carriers. Plus I could not find an alligator clip large enough to fit on a half inch end mill. So I took a few liberties.
1. I put a three pronged cord on the router and tapped the ground wire into the top bearing block with a #6 machine screw. This allowed me to shorten the cord also, which was overdue.
2. I took the other end of the ground wire (in the control box) off the earth ground and tied it to the breakout board common ground. There is still plenty of earth ground connection going on in the control box; the only thing I moved wasn't being used anyway. I am a bit nervous about some sort of stray voltage flying around inside the router frying my breakout board, but so far so good.
Now my LED lights flash on reliably when the bit contacts both plates.
There is much I still do not understand about what is getting pulled to what voltage; for instance the voltage at pin 15 stayed reliably at about 3.9V relative to earth whether it was shorted to common or not. Isn't it supposed to get pulled low? And now the plates register zero volts to earth at baseline, whereas I thought they should have some voltage on them until they are shorted to the tool, at which point they get pulled low.
But this is all academic as the autozero routine works fine now with Tempest, the 2010 screenset and ESS. I did have one issue where the Z homing limit switch was not working; this seemed to go away after I disabled "persistent DROs" and now it is working fine again. Some scary sounds came out of that little stepper but I think it is OK.
I am really happy to have this feature functioning. However I am also amazed at how difficult it was to find the two or three threads that deal most fully with the issue, and how no one really seems to have discussed the fundamental aspects of "pulled high", "pulled low" etc., how resistors play into that, and why the breakout board common ground voltage is not the same as earth ground. I suppose it is all on Wikipedia.
Back to making dust!
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Danger Will Robinson, Danger!
#1: A double insulated tool is designed so that no matter what goes wrong the operator will not be shocked. Both the housing is insulated and the armature (spindle shaft) are insulated. You just undid one of the built in isolations that were designed to keep you safe.
#2: Earth ground is not the same things as DC common. Earth ground (the green wire in an AC cord) is primarily a safety device. It provides a low impedance path to the Earth. It is not used to carry electrical current, that is what the hot and neutral wires are for. Earth ground is also used by various filters to 'bleed off' electrical noise. You do not want to use Earth ground as a return path for your DC signals, doing so just invites noise into your system and can create ground loops (current running through the Earth ground causes voltage drops so different devices will 'see' a different potential for Earth ground.)
#3: Since your using Earth ground as a return path for a DC signal and that wire happens to be in the same cord as your AC power to the router that means your return path for a low voltage signal is running a long distance in parallel with a high voltage noisy signal. This will lead to noise being induced on the low voltage signal.
Now, this probably won't cause the world to end but it is not a good idea nonetheless. I don't mean to belabor the point but circumventing a safety feature to avoid running one wire seems like false economy to me. I want to your machine to operate properly and I want you to be safe so please know that my warnings are meant in a friendly manner.
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FYI for anyone trying to sort it out I think this Erniebro thread is pretty good on autozero, except the grounding stuff:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mach_wizards_macros_addons/56079-xyz_probe_modification.html
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Apparently a 0.01 microFarad capacitor between the input and ground helps; I will see if I can find one today and report back.
Correction it is 0.1 uF capacitor, not 0.01. It prevents accidental tripping of the sensor by noise in the circuit, but doesn't help with the grounding issue per se.
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Karl, no acknowledgement of Jeff's response? I am glad you posted as I am always confused by these terms. I have tried many techniques to eliminate or reduce noise and false tripping over the years. If I had any luck it was probably accidental. Jeff has a very good understanding of it and is very gracious in sharing. Safety in a home shop should be just as important. Who is going to see you being shocked? Getting cut by a spindle that didn't turn off? Or turned on when you were changing a tool? Self rescue? Just something to think about. We all think it will be someone else.
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Oh sorry I have been too busy in the garage and I missed Jeff's post.
Point by point then:
1. I take your point (but who is Will Robinson?). Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. I assume the PDMX will start to melt if the spindle itself goes hot, which should be a good clue that there is a problem. I suppose one of the hot wires to the speed control could somehow contact the end of the green wire where is is screwed to the bearing; this is indeed a safeguard that has been undone, because that ground wire attachment is up above the plastic housing for the bearing in the same vicinity as the powered wires.
2. I understand this - I think. The green conductor is no longer connected to Earth. It is connected to the PDMX common pin, and to the armature. Therefore I am not using earth ground as a return path; I am only using a wire that used to be connected to Earth ground to carry a low voltage signal back to the breakout board.
3. I am not using Earth ground on the wire from the spindle (see above). Yes the wire is in the same bundle as the power wires to the router. Fortunately the router is off when I am touching tools to plates, so I don't seem to have the noise problem that other people refer to, where the LED trips prematurely and the Z axis goes up before touching the plate.
All in all it sounds like running a new wire is a good idea, or perhaps just disconnecting the green one from the bearing and putting a clip on it to hook to the bit. I'll probably do that when the current eight hour machine run is done, and in the meanwhile I'll unplug the spindle when changing tools (thankfully there is a plug on the Z axis).
Thanks for the input and your concern,
Karl
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Looks like your "lost in Space"
;D
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OK the upshot of all this is that the porter Cable 892 basically stopped working. I had the bearings replaced for $50 and it died again, so I replaced it with a 690 and another 890 from eBay.
Overall I think the 690 is a much better built machine with a cast metal top bearing mount, rather than plastic, and a ground wire to the earth.
I am running another 890 with the alligator clip this time for the moment, until I can rig the SPID at which point I will switch back to the 690 for reliability. But the twin lead wire is a keeper; pretty easy to use.
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What encoder count did you use? Or did you simply use the single one?
Dan