Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => Newfangled Solutions Mach3 Wizards => Topic started by: MetalShavings on October 06, 2011, 06:13:13 PM
-
I just got my new Tormach 770 all set up about three weeks ago. The CAM software that came with this package has got me loosing hair
prematurely. It will be a while before I dare run parts using that confusing software.
Just to get a little practice in while waiting for my tooling package to arrive, I wanted to tryout this NewFangled Wizard thing.
I made my first small pile of metal shavings this morning but, that's all I was able to do. I wanted to shave .1" off of a small block of aluminum
just so I can say I've made some chips.
My machine was referenced, my part was referenced and all the information fields in the "Plane" wizard was filled in appropriately but, when I ran
the part my end mill was cutting fifty-percent part and fifty-percent air.
I tried running the part with all the same information in the numbers fields but, with the "Starting Points" changed. The tool path that were being
generated were still cutting just as much air as it was aluminum.
Can someone give me a clue as to what I may be doing wrong?
Incidentally, I did use the "Search" feature to try to find the answer I'm looking for. No sense bugging folks with the same old questions but, No Luck finding the answer. And also; I forgot to mention the I DID push the enter button when I entered my numbers.
Thanks for your help.
MetalShavings.
-
Well alrighty then.
Thanks so much for allowing me to use up a little of your band width.
I know it's difficult to diagnose some problems unless you're physically in front of the
same computer screen with all the pieces of this puzzle there for you to see.
Even when folks can't offer up any input or possible solutions it's still nice when they
just acknowledge your existence if nothing else.
It goes a long way toward there being a possibility of finding a solution; even
when there may not be a solution.
-
OK lets clear up some of your issues,(;-)
First this site is manned by people that are volenters(don't get paid). IF you are going to get PISSY about the free service I would suggest that you go BACK to where they TOOK your MONEY. They are the ONLY ONES that OWE you anything.
Second I just looked and do not see ANY wizard in the NFW set that is CALLED "PLANE" nor did I find one in the public wizards. SO I am not sure if ANYONE has any idea what you are refereing to.
NOW if you would like to try it again post in the MAIN forum for help and if you don't PISS them off you may get some help.
(;-)TP
-
If you are using the newfangled wizards, then you must be trying to surface the stock. That wizard allows for starting the tool off the edge of the stock, and it allows you to set the stepover by percent. Id guess you have some combination of these values set to cause the 'air cut'
There is a manual for the NFS wizards, you can get it off the documents tab at the top of this page. Most of the screens have pretty obvious descriptions, but some may not be clear, and the manual will explain them. The manual version is old, but the information is current- the wizards have been fixed for various bugs, but none of the basic operations have changed.
Try to give me a better idea of what you mean by 'air cutting' and Ill see if I can help
-
Thank you Ron Ginger:
I'll give that manual another read. It may be that I missed something the first couple of times.
What I meant by "Cutting Air" was that my end mill will cut approximately a third of my work piece then as it remains on the tool-path
that was generated, that same tool path moves the end mill completely off the work piece so that it's no longer making contact
with the piece of metal I was wanting to Plane/Surface, it's just just cutting through the air on the side of the part.
Pissy? I'm not completely disillusioned by these little setbacks. I fully expect it to be a "User Error" related problem as it
generally is in cases like this. As I eluded to, after trying to figure this out myself I came to the conclusion that I was clueless
as to how to remedy this situation so I came here hoping to get a clue.
My apologies for any offense. I'm afraid my frustration with this problem overshadowed my plea for help.
Thanks again Mr. Ginger.
MetalShavings
-
I think I may have found the answer to my own problem.
I back tracked the procedure I use to ready my part for machining. All the input fields in the NewFangled Wizard I was using
had been entered correctly each time. They're pretty straight forward and hard to mess up as you eluded to before.
It turns out that when I referenced my part I think I neglected to include the "Minus" symbol in the Mach3 X and Y axis number fields.
I attempted to test my theory by using one of the hole drilling wizards today but, the code it was generating didn't include the spindle speed or the G-Code
for the drilling operation I was attempting to do. I tried it several times with no success.
I test-ran the G-Code that this Wizard put out and the tool path was spot on. I think its because I was missing those pieces of the G-Code that would trigger
the spindle to come on that caused this drilling cycle to fail. I can't say for sure.
If all the other problems I've encountered are any indication, this next problem may very well be User Error as well but, it's hard to figure since I'm
99.9 percent sure I filled in all the text fields correctly.
Have you heard of any such problems with the Multiple Hole Drilling Wizard? Off the top of your head, can you think of anything that I may or may not be doing that would cause the lack of these components in the G-Code that is generated?
MetalShavings
-
can you post a copy of the gcode from one of your drilling jobs?
I dont understand your problem. It might also be helpful if you can post a screen shot of the wizard page after you have filled in all the blanks.
-
I'm basically a Mac computer guy. I'm not completely up to speed on Windows based computers.
I think posting the G-Code will be easy enough but, posting a "Screen Shot" might be a little more difficult for me.
The computer I use to go online is a Mac desktop. The Windows based computer I use for the Mach3 and New Fangled software is not connected to the
internet. Can you tell me how to do a "Screen Shot?" I think posting a "Screen Shot" would be a good idea. It would sure give anyone else who may encounter such a problem a chance to see how to fix it.
Once I figure out how to do this "Screen Shot" I think I can just transfer it onto my Mac and post it here.
MetalShavings
-
Windows has a built in screen capture.. Put the mouse in the window you want to copy hold down the ALT key and hit the <print screen> key. That is usually on the very top row, just right of the F keys.
Once you have captured the screen open the windows Paint program and do a PASTE function, That will put you screen capture in Paint, then do a save as and save it as a jpg- be sure to choose jpg, otherwise paint will save a bmp which is huge.
Once you have the screen shot just save that file to a memory stick, take that to the mac browse to this topic and write a message. On the screen you will see a button for Attachments, click that and attach you screen file.
The Gcode can be inserted right into the text box on the browser, just cut and paste.
-
Hi,
To do a screen shot, when you have the image on your screen that you'd like to share, just hit the "Print Screen" key on the keyboard. This puts that image on the "imaginary" clipboard.
Then, open up Microsoft Paint, which is a very small paint program that is installed in Windows. Start button->Programs->accessories->Paint.
Create a new file in Microsft Paint, than right click (right mouse button) on the white area and choose "Paste" from the menu. Your image should appear. Just save that as a JPEG (.jpg) file but name it something like "MetalShavingsscreenshot" and then transfer it to the Mac. Then upload it here.
Hope that helps-
Dave
EDIT: Ooops, sorry, I see Ron beat me to it! :)
-
Ron and Dave:
Thanks very much. I'll give that a try.
In the mean time I was able to get a copy of the G-Code. I'll post it here while I look into doing the Screen Shot.
I should mention that the part I was testing was a piece of aluminum 1 1/4"x 6" x .75". I was using a small Centering
drill to peck some shallow holes. This wasn't a part of any importance. I just wanted to check my theory of what I may
have done wrong to cause the problems listed in my initial post.
Be back soon.
Tim M.
MetalShavings
(Code by Newfangled Wizard, 10/13/2011)
(Program Posted for Aluminum )
G0 G49 G40.1 G17
G80 G50 G90 G98
G20 (Inch)
(***** Drill Hole Positions *****)
G00 Z0.15
G81 X0.5 Y0.625 Z-0.2 R0.15 F4
X1 Y0.625
X1.5 Y0.625
X2 Y0.625
X2.5 Y0.625
G80
M5 M9
M30
-
OK, here we go:
I let the Wizard calculate the speeds and feeds and chip loads on this. The image shows the "Drill Cycle" chosen. I actually tried to generate G-Code with both of the other icons individually selected just to see if it would make any difference in the outcome of the G-Code.
It didn't seem to make any difference. I got basically the same G-Code that I posted above.
-
Ok, the screen shot helped. You are running an old versiion- 2.79 The current is 2.86
See the first topic in this section for the latest version and how to download it.
You also must be using tool number 0. The wizard didnt put in tool changes if it thinks you are suing the same tool as the last operation- you already have the tool, so you dont need to change. But that got confused in tool 0.
I made some fixes on that stuff a while back.
I think if you use a tool number other than zero you will get the tool change and M3 S********* code properly in your code.
For this drilling job my new DrillWiz would be a much neater solution. See the announcement topic in this section.
-
Hi Ron:
I do recall reading about the tool numbers thing and in fact, in one of my attempts to get this to work I did use the number zero and since I couldn't get it to work I tried leaving the default number in place.
The screen shot you see here is one that I got off my laptop. I've had it for some time and you're right about it being an older version.
My initial two failures to get this to work were with what I assumed was the latest version that came with my new Tormach milling
package.
I figured I'd get the screen shot from my laptops' version of Mach3 using the same NewFangled wizards since they were both displaying
the very same symptoms. Neither version would put out G-Code containing those elements of the code that would allow for
successful hole drilling.
In any event, I'll go back and re-check the information you've just given me. It could be that I just made another self induced error. I'll also check out the "DrillWiz" that you mentioned.
Thanks Ron.
Tim M.
MetalShavings
-
Hi again Ron:
I read your previous post about the latest version of the NewFangled Solution wizards.
Where exactly do I find the 2.86 version. The only one I can seem to find listed on the download
page is the 2.79 version.
Is is possible to just download the latest version and use the same license I purchased for my
present version or am I going to have to pay for a whole new suit?
The answers to my own questions are probably looking me right in the face but I can't seem to
see them.
Tim M.
MetalShavings
-
Where exactly do I find the 2.86 version. The only one I can seem to find listed on the download
page is the 2.79 version.
Here ya go Tim:
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,18321.0.html
Dave
-
Thanks budman:
As I suspected, the answer was looking me right in the face. I found it shortly after my last post.
I uninstalled my existing version of this software and installed the newly downloaded version.
Following is an example of the G-Code that this same wizard is outputting. It's still not giving me
those elements of the G-Code to activate my spindle or tool change.
If any of you guys haven't already done so, can you enter the same numbers into your hole wizard and
show me what you come up with. If your existing NewFangled Multiple-Hole-Wizard produces usable code
I'll be completely baffled.
It would be nice to see what it looks like when it's produced correctly and completely.
Here's what I'm getting below. The actual tool-path appears to be spot-on. It's the spindle speed and tool change code that appears to be missing.
In leu of getting the correct or complete G-Code from this particular wizard, if I were to manually edit my existing code can you
tell me how and where exactly to enter this code that's missing? I think I already know the answer to my last question but I just want to
confirm. Thanks.
(Code by Newfangled Wizard, 10/14/2011)
(Program Posted for Aluminum )
G0 G49 G40.1 G17
G80 G50 G90 G98
G20 (Inch)
(***** Drill Hole Positions *****)
G00 Z0.15
G73 X0.5 Y0.625 Z-0.2 Q0.05 R0.15 F20
X1 Y0.625
X1.5 Y0.625
X2 Y0.625
X2.5 Y0.625
G80
M5 M9
M30
-
OK:
Here's where I'm at right now with the download of the latest version of the NewFangled Wizard suit.
Downloading it was a breeze, Loading as described, onto my computer was also a breeze but, getting it to
work is just not happening. (this is on my CNC mills' computer driver.
The latest version comes up clear enough on the wizards menu but I can't get past the first page of the "Multiple Holes" wizard. (Materials Selection page) When I push the "Continue" button nothing happens. When I push the "Materials" button noting happens. I can fill in the numbers fields but that's all.
In order to get out of that wizard screen I have to shut down the Mach3 session, then open it back up again if I want to continue to do any work in Mach3.
I thought maybe if I removed the old NewFangled wizard suit it would allow the newly downloaded NewFangled wizard suit to take over and function properly.
That didn't work either.
When I opened up both the old and the new NewFangled folders to take a look inside, I noticed the the new one has a couple more files inside of it than the old NewFangled suit folder. Don't know if that makes any difference. I tried uninstalling and then reinstalling this latest version three different times with no luck.
Out of frustration I then tried doing the same thing with the laptop I mentioned in one of my previous replies. That didn't work either so I decided to uninstall the Mach3 software altogether and reinstall the latest demo version in its place. (I'm talking about my old laptop; not my mills' computer driver) I installed the newly uploaded version of the NewFangled wizards immediately after the Mach3 install. It still didn't work. I couldn't get past the "Materials Selection" page of the wizard I mentioned above.
Fortunately I hadn't deleted the imbedded version of the NewFangled wizards that came with the newly installed Mach3 software. I had just moved it out of the "Addons" folder and onto the desktop while I tested the latest version.
When I put the original embedded NewFangled version back into the "Addons" folder along side the latest version. It seemed to work. I mean, I was able to generate usable G-Code with the wizard in question.
I then proceeded removed the original embedded version from the "Addons" file again just to see if the newly installed latest version would work but, again, it wouldn't allow me to get past the "Materials" selection page. I had to put the original embedded version of the NewFangled Wizards suit back into the "Addons" folder along with the latest version in order to get that latest version to work.
In the last four weeks I've been dealing with all kinds of different software and computer issues that's enough to shorten anybodies life span. Admittedly, a good portion of those problems are caused by User error or User Ignorance. Then there are those that I believe to be software issues. I'm still dealing with some of those problems as I try to figure out these wizard setbacks.
I think I mentioned this in one of my previous replies: the main reason I decided to buy the NewFangled license was so I could actually use my mill while I was trying to get a handle on the CAM software that came with this package. For me, the learning curve of that CAM software is steeper than it has a right to be. Either that or I'm dumber than I got a right to be. (I heard that!)
While I struggle to learn the workings of that software, I figured I could use these wizard to get me by. Wouldn't you know it; it's the wizards that I needed the most that I've encountered these little setbacks with.
The fact that I'm a Mac computer user rather than a Windows based computer user only adds to my confusion and frustration.
Can one of you guys offer up some possible reasons for these glitches? Theres bound to be simple fixes for someone who knows what they're doing. I clearly do not know what I'm doing.
Since the computer on my mill has been configured at the factory to run with the version of Mach3 that it presently has installed, I'm reluctant to
remove that version and install the latest version for fear of just adding problems on top of problems; just so I can get a couple of these wizard to work for me.
If worse comes to worse I can use my laptop to generate the G-Code I need from these wizards but, it would be a whole lot more convenient if I could get them to
work as they should on my mills' computer.
Thanks for letting me vent. I feel better now.
Tim M.
MetalShavings
-
(Code by Newfangled Wizard, 10/13/2011)
(Program Posted for Steel )
G0 G49 G40.1 G17
G80 G50 G90 G98
G20 (Inch)
(***** Drill Hole Positions *****)
M6 T7
M03 S2500
M8
G00 G43 H7 Z0.5
G83 X1 Y0 Z-0.25 Q0.02 R0.10 F6.60
X0.00 Y1.00
X2.00 Y0.00
X0.00 Y2.00
G80
M5 M9
M30
-
Thanks BR549:
That's excellent. Except for the metal type, this is the kind of G-Code my laptop is now able to generate.
It will be just a little longer till I can get things squared away so that the wizards on my Mills' computer
will do the same.
It's slowly coming together.
Off the subject; Back in the day, there used to be a program on TV called HeeHaw. It featured some characters that would use
the same letters and numbers of your user name as their telephone number. I recall these characters saying in their comedy skits,
"Call BR549." It was funnier when they did it though.
Funny how certain things bring back certain memories. Just curious if the username you selected had anything to do with that program?
MetalShavings
-
Jr Sample's used car lot. Call me at BR549.
Part of what you are seeing on yout tormach setup is the way te NFW was written long ago.
Try this open the nfw and go directly to the drill function. Set up a simple test troutine. NOW use the preveiw button does your M3s### numbers and tool change show up there? Make sure you have data in all the tool setup fields. AND don't use tool(0). Make sure you checked direction for the spindle. AND make SURE the tool number you used has a value to the diam or just assign one.
NOW if you go back and do it again you MAY not see the M# and T# in the new code. That is one of the quirks you have to learn to deal with until they get fixed. In the way teh NFW deals with mulit jobs may effect HOW it does single jobs SOMETIMES.
The NFW does have some quirks to get used to. Could use some updating to make it a bit more useful in some areas. BUT it does work
Note : It is a LOT better than it used to be as far as quirks RON has been doing a fine job slowly but surely getting it updated. Part of the slow down is the complex way it was coded from the begginning.
Good Job Ron
(;-) TP
-
Yea: that's the one. Jr. Samples. Call BR549
I understand what you're getting at with your suggestion. It makes sense and I have done those things you've listed.
On my initial go-round I was having problems with just a couple of the wizards. The rest of them work just fine.
I can press the preview button and I do get a list of the code but, that code does not include the M-code for the tool change or the G-Code for the "S" spindle speed.
This time around, with one particular wizard, I can't get past the materials selection page.
I'll be talking to someone I'm certain can help me out with this. I'll be back to give an update later.
I think I finally got my CAD software issues ironed out and now it appears that these wizard setbacks
are slowly coming together as well. I look forward to being able to use my mill to actually make
my first part next week.
Things are looking up.
MetalShavings
-
All Is Right With The World Again.
I had the good fortune of being able to talk at length with someone far more familiar
with these wizards than I could ever aspire to be.
Initial reviews of my install procedure and my own attempts to try to fix these problems myself
left us both stumped. Further discussions pointed to having both the old and the new
version of the NewFangled suit of wizards present in the same folder.
It would be better for me to leave it to the experts to explain it correctly but, since I was the whiner
that came her with the problems I feel a certain amount of obligation to try to explain what appeared to
be the cause of the issues I was having.
I ended up keeping the old and the new NewFangled suit folders in the "Addons" folder side by side.
In order to get the latest version to work properly I had to change the name of the old version. I simply changed
the name to "Old Version."
The name of the new version had to be changed as well. In this case the change was very minor. All I did was remove
the three numbers following the name, "NewFangled;" exactly as is instructed in the install procedures listed in one of
post on this forum.
Here's where it gets confusing to me and a description from an expert would be better. As I understood it, the information
needing to be retrieved from the NewFangled folders in order to carry out certain functions was being hindered somehow
by having both the old and new versions of the NewFangled suits with similar titles. I think. Just trying to describe it make
me even more confused.
The only way I could get the new version to appear to work was to leave both the old and new version in the "Addons" folder together.
In order to retrieve the information it needed to carry out certain functions, the NewFangled software was designed to search for that information
in a folder titled "NewFangled."
When I attempted to use the latest version of the NewFangled Wizards suit, and that software went searching for "certain information,"
it would search for that "certain information" in the folder of that old version of the NewFangled software because it was titled "NewFangled."
The latest version of the NewFangled wizards software wouldn't search its own folder for the information it needed because it was titled "NewFangled289;" or something like that.
I'm still kind of baffled by it all.
I'm just grateful to finally get it figured out and working properly. Now I can move on to breaking some tools and making some
metal shavings.
Many thanks to all who offered up support and just took the time to reply.
MetalShavings
-
I will try to set this straight.
When I make a distribution kit for a new version it gets names with the version numbers appended, like Newfangled286.
If you just let unzip do its thing you wind up with a folder Addons\Newfangled286.
But some of the wizard data, like the Materials.txt data and the help files are hard coded inside the wizard to look in Addons\Newfangled. So if you leave the 286 on the name it doesnt find the files.
The right way is to unzip the new version. delete the old version, then rename the new to just Newfangled with no version number. If you really want to keep the old one make it something like NewfangledOLD, but remember it wont work correctly under that name.
-
YEP that would do it.
(;-) TP
-
I broke my first drill bit today.
Snapped that sucker right off.
I was using the wizard that I had originally posted my inquiry about.
I was so proud of myself. I almost went out and bought a
lottery ticket. ;D
You can't imagine how happy I am to finally get thing
going.
Thanks again everyone. Unless I run into some other problems
I can't figure out myself you won't hear from me again.
MetalShavings