Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: FriendOfGhost on August 05, 2011, 01:27:30 PM
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Dear friends,
I want to stop (pause) mach3 while running and shutdown eveyything and tomorrow I want to continue where I stopped the system.
I wonder how do you do it. I get the last coordinates, last line of gcode that will be processed and "tomorrow" I try to continue.
but... "Radius to end of arc differs from radius to start on Line #" messages are making this operation impossible.
Can you suggest some way to do it ?
best regards...
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Sounds to me your default IJ mode may be different to what you have in the code. How are you restarting, if doing a Run From Here then I think it should change the IJ mode to what is in the code so it sounds like you are not doing that. Either MDI the correct IJ mode or change the default on General Config and see if that helps.
Hood
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Nope my friend,
IJ mode is correct. I tried that. also if I change IJ mode my gcode never runs and directly gives that error.
gcode is running perfectly.Problem is after I pause gcode, press reset button, exit from mach3....
and...
re-run mach3, open my gcode, set old coordinates and run the gcode that error rises. I believe when run gcode starting from the middle of it, arcs could not be completed...
never mind, real problem is: how I stop gcode, shurdown everything and continue tomorrow ?
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How are you trying to restart the code?
Do you home to switches?
Can you attach your xml and code and also say which line you stop at?
Hood
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The first problem is that the machine will loose its exact position when you shut it down. You will need to Rereference the machine to home on startup. That will place you back to a known position +/- the accuracy of your referencing switches.
The second option is to reference the machine to a KNOWN point on the material or table and then set the dros to those values. That will reference you BACK to the part. A edge reference in X and Y or a simple center of a hole will do.
THen the easy way toRESTART is to use RUN FROM HERE. There are some quirks to this as well but for the most part it works fine on simple Gcode. Just follow the prompts to restart. NOTE it will take you BACK to the line BEFORE the one you select. So check your tool/fixture clearances to allow a safe move to the start point.
The Run Next Line can work BUT you cannot restart in an arc or you will get that message(;-) at that point mach does NOT know where the last move was from so it cannot determine where the arc should end.
If you want to use Run next line you HAVE to make sure your MODES are set correct for where you are at in the Gcode. Then start from the beginning of a line not an arc.
Just some thoughts, (;-)TP
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The Run Next Line can work BUT you cannot restart in an arc or you will get that message(;-) at that point mach does NOT know where the last move was from so it cannot determine where the arc should end.
this is exactly my point my friend. So you say I cannot continue arcs tomorrow...
that means I need to pause mach3 EXACTLY after finising the arc.
Can you tell me please, if there's a way for stopping mach3 in some exact line ? like breakpoint ? like "stop at line number *********"
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Easy Just restart at a point that is a line not an arc "previous" to the arc where you stopped. All modal values have to be set. G1/G0? Feedrate, SpindleSpeed,G20/21, G90/91.etc,etc.
Run from here works well and does all that for you based on the Gcode and gives you the option to restart the spindle.
NOW note: None of these options will work well with SUBs or macros or parametric Gcode as in most cases there are no Know values until the function actually runs and Variables are calculated.
Also with tool comp you MUST allow room on your restart for the machine to cycle the comp before it can restart or else you may crash the tool into the part or machine table.
(;-) TP
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Can some one here make a video tutorial this will help us all new members
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I want to stop (pause) mach3 while running and shutdown eveyything and tomorrow I want to continue where I stopped the system.
Do you know in advance where you want to stop or do you just stop "somewhere" when you run out of time or when the wife calls you home?
If you know in advance, put in an optional stop (M01). If you ever want t run the program through from start to finish, tell Mach to ignore optional stops.
In a way, G-code is like driving a car - it is not wise to just jam on the brakes in the middle lane of the motorway and jump out leaving the car where it stands. You have to indicate, slow down, pull over to the hard shoulder and park up nicely. Further, you stand a much higher chance of restarting in a graceful fashion if you follow the latter procedure.
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COme on guys just try it in the air with no part or tools loaded. It is not rocket science.
Load a program move to line inside the program and press run from here and then start and SEE what happens. Follow the prompt from the Message box that will appear. It tells you where you are at position wise and where it will go to get to the part position and gives you some restart options like start spindle.
It will not blow a fuse or cause warts to appear on your finger, just try it (;-) TP
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I loaded my gcode, write 2500 to "line" section, hit enter and gcode windows went that line. When I hit "run from here" gdoce goes to line 0, top of gcode.
I tried different combinations of "load gcode", "set next line", "run from here", "rewind" buttons, and different line numbers for starting point, but no luck. I dont know how this "run from here" button supposed to work.
that mach3 application is very good software but its some portions definitely need to be revised. There should be a trick to work with "run from here". I searched forums, google it, but could not find solution.
do you have any idea how to use it ? can you give me step by step instructions like:
load g-code
enter line number (while reset button is active, ie: motors are not running)
hit "set next line"
While reset button is inactive (while step motors are running)
hit "run from here"
of course this directions not working, at least for me... When I hit "run from here" gcode ayways starts from beginning...
this is the beginning of the code... maybe you could say "this situation is related with the codes at the top of gcode"
T1M6
G17
G0Z12.860
G0X0.000Y0.000S15000M3
G0X14.000Y8.600Z5.000
G1Z-0.020F1200.0
G3X13.000Y7.600I-0.000J-1.000F600.0
.... and goes on...
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to: BR549
Ooookiii, doki....
when I set line number and hit "run from here" it runs all gcodes from begining to that specifis line without moving motors and very fast. then it stops that line and waits for "continue" command"...
my line number is 2750 so it takes some time go there. I thought mach3 starts over but actually its not. I noticed that codes working very fast and dro's of mach3 are not changing.
thanks my friend... you helped me a lot. have a nice day with full of smiles.
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Yep when you use RFH mach preruns ALL the code at hyperspeed reading (does not move the machine) That way it KNOWS everything it needs to know to restat your program. ALL the modal values are allready set for you.
Just remember it will restart at the END of the previous line to the one you select. IF than line ends in the bottom of a pocket you need to make sure the machine is lined up to MOVE to that spot so it does not crash into the part to get there.
Sling some chips for me , (;-)TP
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Easiest way is to stop at a logical stopping point, like after Z retracts but before a rapid to the next cut. Then make a note of the line number in the program where it stopped, open the program in a text editor and delete all of the code that has already run. Leave the program header and any setup code. The first rapid move should be to the next part that would have cut had you not stopped the program. After editing, reload the program and run it from the top.
This assumes you referenced at a point that you can replicate, like the lower left of the stock.
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As a new CNC enthusiast, I am finding Mach3 incredibly frustrating. I have been able to get it to (for the most part) do what I need, but with no help whatsoever from the manual.
I am having the same problem as being discussed here, needing to restart a 16 hour cut after taking a break in the middle.
Nowhere in the manual is there an explanation (in laymans terms, anyway) on how to do this!
Everybody here seems to have a different opinion on how to do this from "IJ modes" to "home switches" to "modal values" to "optional (M01) stops" to "it's not rocket science" to "open a text editor and delete parts of your code."
I've had some success in the past by:
1: Before shutting down a job in the middle, note what code line I am at.
2. Upon restart, find the spot in the code where I've previously left off.
3. Back up a step or two
4. Confirm zero points
4. Run From Here and follow the prompts
It SHOULD be that simple, however sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
I hope I haven't offended anyone here, but I'm extremely frustrated at the thought of having to carve 8 hours of air just to get back to where I left off yesterday.
Thanks for any clear assistance that anyone can provide. Cheers.
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It should and is as easy as you have detailed however are you licensed or using the demo? RFH doesnt work in the demo mode.
Hood
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Thanks for the reply, Hood.
I believe it is a licensed version. It came with the CNC machine and computer when I bought them.
"Run From Here" has worked for me in the past, although with smaller files. Also, it took me a whole lot of trial and error to figure out how to use Run From Here. (as well as destroying expensive hardwoods . . .)
I guess my biggest complaint is that the Instruction Manual is not very user friendly. ArtSoft needs to take a page from Apple computers and not assume that everyone who starts up Mach3 is a technician.
As CNC machines become more available for hobbyists and small woodworking shops, I fear that ArtSoft may be blowing an opportunity to capture this new market by not backing up a step and producing proper, usable documentation.
Just look at the amount of confusion in these forums with people not understanding each other, and using different and inconsistent terminology.
Small example: At one point I am prompted to "Press Cycle Again to restart."
When I click "Cycle Start" it takes me back the the prompt in circles. So I took the command more literally and looked for a "Cycle Again" button. No such luck. The manual was obviously written by technicians.
By the sheer volume of people looking for help in these forums, it serves as an indication of how lacking the documentation is.
Is anyone from ArtSoft paying attention?
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Well the procedure I use is go to the line in your code that you want to start from (actually starts from previous line to one you choose) There are different ways to get to the line, scrolling and clicking the line, clicking in window and scrolling with arrows on keyboard or I think, also typing a line number into the line number DRO will work although I have never used that method.
Anyway once you are where you want to be in the code window press RFH button, it will scroll through the code then a message will ask you to press Cycle Start for prep move, Prep move box will appear and if you are happy you press OK. Machine will move to numbers in prep move box then another message asking to press Cycle Start again once its there, press that and off it should go. If you are going in circles by doing that then there are issues, if you attach your xml I will see if I can replicate it here.
Hood
BTW Mach is Art the creator who is retired (or as retired as he can bear to be ;) ) Brian, Scott and Andrew and their time is pretty much taken up with things. Apple on the other hand is a company that probably has thousands of employees and also charges a lot more for their products ;)
There are lots of videos as well as the documentation but Mach moves fast so even they will be outdated but should give useful insights to new users.
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Perhaps ArtSoft could be as big as Apple if they had proper manuals and documentation . . . (This is where I'd put in a smiley face . . . if I knew how to.)
In a nutshell, I have a demo version of Mach3 on my home computer (not hooked up to CNC) and when I try the RFH commands everything appears to look OK.
On the computer hooked up to the CNC, I need the RFH to go to line 346682. I highlight the proper line in the menu and press RFH. It hesitates at line 20, and then goes to approx. line 156000. At this point the Reset button flashes, which is kind of odd . . .
If I press Reset and continue with the prompting, it will indeed go only to line 156000 and carry on. I just can't get it to go to 346882 as I require.
Perhaps I will resave the Gcode and try again. Maybe something in the code could have become corrupt.
Again, thanks for taking the time to reply to me. Cheers.
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If Artsoft charged as much as others do then they would be able to afford support staff, document writers etc, in fact in the future you will be able to choose that route as there will be an Industrial aimed version where you can pay for a support package just like Fanuc ;D, dont think many hobby guys would do that though ;)
Attach your xml and your code and I will test here and see if I can find the issue but another thing to try is turn off the toolpath view and see if that helps, could be the graphics overloading if its a huge file thus tripping the watchdog in Mach, you could also try turning the watchdog off. Toolpath On/Off button is on Diagnostics page just above Reset button, Watchdog option is on General Config page.
To attach your xml and code use the additional options button on the reply page. The xml is a file in the main Mach3 folder and it is called the same as the profile you are using, you will see the name of that if you look lower right of your main screen in Mach. You will likely have to either rename the xml or zip it with a unique name before the forum will accept it as the forum only accepts a file name once.
Hood
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After reading all this I wonder why there is no 'pause' option. It's obvious that it could be a popular feature.
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Pause? There is feedhold which is basically pause but you need to leave your machine powered up.
Hood
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You sir, are genius.
It was the watchdog thing. I don't know what it is. Or why it is. And at this point I don't even care.
Who needs manuals when you have The Power of The Hood?
A thousand thank-you's.
Cheers. Craig.
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Freehold, if it will pause the machine, is what I would like to see. All I have to do now is find what and where it is.
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Ha ha well I try my best but luckily there are also a lot of others here who share their knowledge :)
Feedhold is on the main page and the toolpath page, see screenshot. Oh also pressing the space bar on your keyboard will work if you use the standard screenset.
Hood
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Thanks, Hood. Now I know how to see what my other problem are when I use a sharpie attachment. It will help with the analysis.
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How well the RFH works is VERY Gcode program dependant. Some ways of writing the code lend to easier interpretation for the RFH. Most of those are VERY large for their function as they are loaded with duplicate modal code that repeats over and over again each line.
Others that are written for efficient coding only have the modal calls where actually needed. OR may run sub routines and parametric values or Macros to complete the PRogram in a manner they need.
SO if I told you exactly HOW I did it it may not work as well for you. In time IF you learn to "READ THE GCODE" it will become apparent when and where it will work well OR why it won't.
The manuals HAVE to assume some level of understanding on the Operatotrs behalf OR it would be 10"thick and cost $10,000 a copy. (;-) The manuals for the $1,000,000 machine are not much different. Most time worse(;-)
(;-) TP
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I've been a professional graphic designer for about 25 years and am looking for new ways to ply my trade. So far I have done some pretty amazing carvings combining Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, ZBrush and Aspire with my CNC machine.
The results so far are beyond what I expected, and I have essentially walked away from my graphic design business and am starting to get more CNC work than I can handle. (Good thing!) My plate is full with the technical knowledge required just to do the artwork.
At one time, when the CNC world was the domain of highly skilled technicians, then yes, I agree that an elevated level of understanding of the "guts" must be assumed. I wish I had the time and technical aptitude to be able to learn about all the technical aspects of running my machine, but unfortunately I don't.
My CNC is a way for me to design products, explore ideas, create artwork and cut materials for clients. THAT is what is important to me. An analogy would be my truck. I don't know how the engine works, I just need it to get me where I need to go.
I spent over six hours today on my machine and on the internet trying to find an answer to a problem that stopped me in my tracks. I am thankful to Hood (above) for solving a seemingly simple problem that the manual did not clearly address.
There is a huge new market opening up for woodworkers and artisans as the price of decent CNC machines continues to drop. You can see advertisements in all the Woodworking and craft magazines.
It may not be ArtSoft, but some company WILL recognize a need for controller software that fosters success without the frustration (and time requirement) of having to learn an additional skillset. A controller software that allows users to focus on their skills, rather than fight with unfamiliar technology.
Mach3, I've found, can do amazing things and is very powerful. Yes, they would incur the cost of professional writing and designing a more user-friendly interface, but they could really dominate an up and coming market.
I've been lurking around this forum for about a year, and I would bet that most of the frustration and help requests could be eliminated.
Thanks for your thoughts. Appreciate the response.
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That market is not growing as you think it is. People are forever coming and going as they find they do not have what it takes or care to spend the countless hours LEARNING to master the MANY skillsets required to do it as the magazine adds show it.
ON your trucks were you born with the knowledge of how to drive it. (;-) NO you had to learn from "experience". The truck did not come with a "How to drive on the american highway system" manual did it?
But you were willing to PAY the PRICE of having a ready to drive truck engineered for the ease of doing so.
Same with CNC you can BUY a ready made engineered system and be provided with hands on training that can bring you up to full speed on ALL the aspects of Making parts. FOR a price.
BUT if you do not MAKE the effort to LEARN the basics of CAD/Cam/Gcode/Machine operation you wil be limited to just driving it around the block and then parking it not getting anything that you really want to do done.
Then you leave the CNC world. I have been around machines/ncmachines/cncmachine for almost 40 years and have seen generations of wishfull really want to be a CNCer come and go. Most simply because they would not put forth the effort it takes to learn it.
(;-) It is no different than learning to be a professional or hobby musician. Most will tell you all it takes is a lifetime of practice to master it. Simple and easy(;-) so the book says. Not so easy in real life.
(;-) TP
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Also IF there was really that much interest there would be How To BOOKS out the gazoo. Everywhere you looked you would see books on CNC maching.
Normally IF there is no market there are no books.
(;-) TP
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Maybe we could write one . . .
Most of the major woodworking magazines now have regular sections on CNC carving and fabrication.
I know one of the local tool/hardware stores here has a small machine on display and they've asked me if I could come and do some demonstrations, as they've had a ton of interest, but no one in the store that can properly run it.
I turned them down as I didn't want to unleash a whole bunch of competition to my new career!
Machines are getting to within reach (price-wise) of weekend warrior woodworkers.
Once that takes off "CNC For Dummies" here we come!
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BR, I respectfully think you may be misunderstanding the entire point of my posts. I completely understand the skillset and effort required to master a CNC machine.
My initial frustration is directed at the manual and documentation for Mach3, which is essentially useless to a relative newcomer.
I need to learn a WHOLE lot more about running my CNC machine before most of the manual will make any sense to me. And I can't run my machine to the best of it's capabilities until I can understand the manual . . . round and round.
I'm not asking for the machine to be "easy" to master. I'm asking for clear, concise documentation. I will certainly continue to use Mach3, but the first time I stumble upon a powerful, but more user-friendly option, I'm gone.
There are over 77,000 posts just in the General Mach Discussion Forum alone. I've seen an awful lot of the same questions and problems raised over and over again.
Take a look in the Mach 3 manual. Something as simple and basic as restarting a job midstream is not explained.
My analogy with the truck still stands, even moreso. I have been able to master and enjoy the skill of driving because I can devote my undivided attention to it. If I choose to look under the hood (which I don't), well all the better. But it's certainly not necessary.
My iPad and my truck. Both infinitely more complex than Mach3, but way easier to use. Thanks for the discussion. I've enjoyed it. Cheers.
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If you ever have to explain to an hourly employee how to use 'Run from here", you see why I just edit the GCode. From a cost perspective, CNC is within reach to the hobbyist, but I don't think you'll ever see a CNC for dummies machine...or controller. It's easy to train someone to push the proper buttons to achieve a result, but not so easy to teach them what to do if things don't work right.
CNC machinery is a lot different than you truck. There are a lot of variables, both in the job setup and in the machine operation...and since most of these machines are home-built, it's almost impossible to document the machine, and since Mach3 is so customizable, it's not easy to document it as well.
The closest you'll come to pushing a button and outputting a part without worrying is to buy a commercial machine and controller, then when things go wrong, you just call the tech to fix it...Kind of like calling the mechanic to fix your truck. Of course, you'll pay a considerable price for that. If you want to build you own machine, you have no choice but to learn what goes on under the hood.
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hIYA Blue I understand where you are going with the discussion I have had the same decision with different generations 100s of times. My point IS there is very little MONEY in the DIY cnc market for the developers of things. Most use the same model that has been used for years and years.
I create the gizmo but you have to figure out HOW to use it because I cannot afford to write a concise manual to bring you from scratch to CNC master. BECAUSE Most of that Documentation would have nothing to do with the Gizmo I provide.
It was the same when I started playing in metal ART. The machining side I had done for generations knew it top to bottom left to right. BUT the design side software (Graphic design programs) was like a Hot Spanish romance novel written in Latin. It took a long time for me to figure out what they were implying function wise in the software.
NOW if you want to be a millionare sit down and write a precise simple Book for the market to use. But you will find quickly that it is a very BROAD subject that does not lend to easy explanation as they are SO many ways to do each function and none of them are wrong or right. SO the terms Precise and simple don't go together well.
Now there IS a CNC book for CNC beginners. " EASY CNC" written by David Benson. It is written for a CNC beginner and covers most of the BASICs but is more specific to a different controller.
http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/bookeasycncbydavidbenson.aspx
(;-) TP