Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: newatcnc on June 26, 2011, 04:39:00 PM

Title: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on June 26, 2011, 04:39:00 PM
Hi
I am trying to convert my mill to cnc but have a problem with computers.
Computer 1 - loaded mach 3, got the steppers working in toggle mode OK, then started to have problems starting my computer after shut down, took 3 or 4 goes each time than nothing.
Computer 2 - again got my steppers working, connected up the limit switches, when trying to jog but got a long message ,words to the effect, " motors can not operate because possibly a limit witch is activated", which was strange as I had not enables the switches, then mach 3 locked up, I shut down my computer, since then it will not reboot.


I bought the computer second hand, the dealer replaced the first computer with the second computer, both had been thoroughly tested by the dealer.
This is all in a few days, both used xp home edition.

Can this be a coincidence?
What can be the problem?
I am not sure it's fair to take this second computer back to the dealer , I am reluctant to spend money on yet another computer.

Anyone had similar problems?
Any suggestions or help appreciated
Thanks
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on June 26, 2011, 05:01:20 PM
What happens when you try to start it?
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on June 26, 2011, 05:10:21 PM
Hi
Thanks for your reply
When starting the keyboard and mouse flash momentarily, then no video output, no power to the mouse and presumably the key board, just will not boot up. Lightb is on, fans running.

When problems started with the first computer it was the same but would reboot after a few goes but after a few starts ups like this completely dead.

Thanks
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on June 26, 2011, 05:14:41 PM
Sounds like motherboard is dead, you could try switching off the power and reseating the CPU, video card and memory etc and all plugs. Also unplug CD drives etc and leave them disconnected and any external cables such as your printer port cable, any USB etc.

Look at the capacitors on the motherboard and see what they are like, if the tops are bulging or they are leaking then thats your problem.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on June 26, 2011, 05:29:06 PM
Hi Hood
I did have a visual look at the mother board etc and could not see anything unusual, I give you suggestion a try and see. I don't know anything about computers but I guess I can't make things much worst.

Seems strange for similar problem with 2 computers after running mach3 only a few times, 4 or 5 times infact.

Do you recon it has nothing to do with mach 3?
Could it be anything to do with the stepper drivers connected to the printerr port?

With 1000's mach users I guess this must be highly unusual.

Thanks again
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on June 26, 2011, 05:37:34 PM
There is a slight chance that your wiring or components that are connected to the parallel port would kill the computer.
Cant see how Mach itself could do anything, it is just software so worst it could do is corrupt the data on your hard drives but your computer would still at least go past the POST if that was the case.

Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on June 26, 2011, 05:58:29 PM
Hi Hood
Ye, I did not think mach3 could do such damage.
My y axis drive seems to have a fault, the stepper runs very rough and screams a bit so I am using the 4th axis driver for my y axis however, the y axis driver is still powered up and wired to the printer port.
Hmm, maybe I should have disconnected it.

Cheers again
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on June 27, 2011, 08:30:19 AM
Hi Nigel,

Could you post details of what your PC is connected to - stepper controller / breakout board etc. ?
Is it a proprietary controller unit ?

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on June 27, 2011, 09:28:34 AM
Hi
The controller was an ebay purchase complete with motors etc.
Here is a link to the item.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-axis-CNC-conversion-system-Sherline-mill-lathe-motor-/260507682605?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ca777c72d


Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on June 27, 2011, 11:19:45 AM
Hi Nigel,

Unfortunately I have no knowledge of that make of controller.
Stepper motors make a screaming sound when they stall. If this happens then reduce your velocity setting for the appropriate axis within Mach motor tuning - save your changes.
Unless there is a fault with the controller electronics it unlikely to cause damage to your computer but It would be prudent to examine the internal connections thoroughly, perhaps with an eye glass, (especially those relating the the computer LPT printer port) to make sure there are no solder bridges or short circuits anywhere.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on June 27, 2011, 06:26:49 PM
Thanks Tweakie
I will checkout the wiring.
Any motor connected to the y axis contoller does not run smoothly and makes a squealing noise when running, this combined with 2 dead computers in a row makes me suspect the y axis driver or maybe the wiring to/from the driver?
At the moment I know nothing much about the electrical side of what I am trying to do, and northing out electrics generally.
I was wondering if I could change to breakout board in the unit for a better one that protects the computer?

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on June 28, 2011, 01:48:34 AM
Hi Nigel,

Changing the BoB for a known good one would not do any harm.
The CNC4PC type C10 or C11 would be a good choice as many members now use these BoB's. You can check out the spec here http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=45 There are,of course, lots of others just as good and the choice will be yours.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on June 29, 2011, 12:45:06 AM
Hi Guys
Thanks for your help.
I work allot in Singapore and have a small sherline mill & lathe there but in the UK (home) I have a full size shop.
I want to use my time while in Singapore to learn cnc.

I am thinking I will put this cnc controller to one side for now and sort it later.
I am considering getting a Gecko G540 4 axis drive which is all encompassing, that's my only concern everything is in one unit so any problem the whole thing will need replacing. The reason I am considering this one is that it's available ex stock in Singapore and is rated for my motors at 3.5 A.
I guess I can use my existing power supply as presumably this is rated to suite my motors, the power supply is 24volt, 10A. The motors are 4 wire, don't know if that's bad as from what I have seem 8 wire is usually recommended with the coils connected in parallel?

Hopefully this will get me going fairly quick, just need to find another used computer as well.

On the original controller the BoB is very basic, just terminals, a couple of capacitors and resistors, allot different to the cnc4pc you showed me. I will replace the BoB for a cnc4pc as you suggested and replace the assumed defective driver and try it out later.

The cheap Chinese route I have taken has wasted time and money so far, maybe I have just been unlucky.

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: ERP on June 29, 2011, 02:09:32 AM
The most basic breakout board is just a set of connections for pins on the parallel port, but that provides no protection for the PC and doesn't deal with the fact that PC parallel ports don;t always put out 5V or that you can draw very limited current from them.
Usually even if something is mis wired and you don't have any isolation on the board about the worst thing that happens is you kill the parallel port. I'm a bit surprised that you could kill 2 computers with it, unless there is a pretty drastic wiring issue, like something dramatically more than 5V being fed back into the parallel port.

I run a G540 on my Sherline, it's a great product, but you should be able to salvage some of the chinese stuff you have, the BOB does sound like junk. The steppers will be fine on a sherline, I run bigger 270 oz ones but they are massive overkill especially with the standard 20tpi lead screws.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on June 29, 2011, 03:11:33 AM
I am considering getting a Gecko G540 4 axis drive which is all encompassing, that's my only concern everything is in one unit so any problem the whole thing will need replacing.
The G540 is actually made up of 4 drives and a motherboard, so any damage to one drive and that is all you will need to replace.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 22, 2011, 10:03:07 AM
Hi Guys
Thanks for your help much appreciated but now I may have another problem.
I bought the Gecko G540 driver and another second hand computer.
Regarding the computer, it did not have a parallel printer port so the dealer fitted one for me.

The initial installation instructions for the G540 say that the printer port must be set to EPP. I can't see anything in the BIOS that refers to the parallel printer port, I guess that's because it's not integral, don't know?
In device manager/ ports I can see PCI-ECP installed using LTP3. So this suggests it's ECP and I can't see any way to configure it to EPP.

So my question is, is this PCI board any good or is there a way to reconfigure it?

I did not think getting cnc working was going to be so difficult and time consumming, I just hope this is the last hurdle to over come.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about computers etc.

Any advice very much appreciated.

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 22, 2011, 10:57:00 AM
Hi Nigel,

ECP will do just fine.

Go to the printer port properties in device manager to see the port address (typically 0378) that you need to enter in Mach Config / Ports and Pins / Port#1.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 22, 2011, 12:02:17 PM
Hi Tweakie
Your such a great help
In device manager I can see LPT1 at 0378 (as you mention)
Also LPT3 (PCI ECP parallel port card) which has 2 addresses E800 and E480

So I am a bit confused. I assumed I would need to set mach3 to use LPT3 at one of the addresses because this is the PCI parallel port card.
I thought this because there is no parallel printer port on the mother board hence the PCI card.

Not sure how LPT1 now fits into the picture.

Should I still just set Mach3 to LPT1?

Sorry if this is all a bit basic, it's a bit over my head at the moment.

Cheers
Nigel



Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 22, 2011, 12:34:54 PM
In Port 1 box in Mach enter E800 and you should be fine, if not it will be E480

Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 22, 2011, 12:56:33 PM
Hi Nigel,

Exactly as Hood said.  ;)

(It will show as 0xE800 and this just indicates that it is in hexadecimal notation).

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 24, 2011, 02:10:25 AM
Hi Tweakie, Hood
Thanks again for you help but unfortunately I am not making any progress.
Using the G540 drive with the charge pump disengaged I have holding torque on the motors so all seems well.
I loaded the G540 xlm file from Gecko
Once connected to the computer with the charge pump switched on the drive shows a fault and no power to motors, there is a constant external emergency signal stop in mach3
With the port address set at e800 there are no LED's lit on the diagnostics screen, when set at E480 one home led and one port pin led id lit. However, after changing the port address a few times the port pin led's lit is not consistant.
I checked the pin no for the charge pump and it correct.
It does say in the Gecko trouble shooting instructions, if the inputs and out puts are not working then make sure the parallel port is set to EPP.
So I am guessing the problem must be to do with the parallel port?
According to the box the card came in it's ECP and EPP but I can't see how to change the settings, I am thinking I should take it out and refit and install and hope during installation I can set it to EPP?

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 24, 2011, 03:26:34 AM
Sometimes there are jumpers on the PCI ports to set to the mode you wish, may also be a means in device manager to do the same. You shouldnt have to physically remove the card, just right click on it and uninstall  from device manager should do the same, then either reboot or right click at the top of the device manager tree and scan for hardware changes.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 24, 2011, 04:19:33 AM
Hi Nigel,

You are correct, I was wrong   :-[

I just checked the G540 data and yes it does require the EPP mode to communicate the stop / reset in Mach.

When I last installed a parallel port card the ECP / EPP option was a choice during install but I used an install disc that came with the card. I don't know if the standard windows installer will give you the option.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 24, 2011, 06:37:53 AM
Hi Guys
Thanks again.
This is becoming a comedy saga where everyting that should be simple just does not go your way. Really fed up now but some day I am sure I will look back and laugh.
I un-installed the card in device manager and just to make sure I removed the card and re-booted the computer (silly me).No LTP3 port, good. I turned off the computer fitted the card, turned on the computer expecting to install using the CD and hopefully get an EPP option (there are no jump lead options on the card), but no, it installed it's self, just seemed to pick up the un-installed drive if that makes sense, so no further forward.
In desperation I went out and bought another parallel port card. It says it supports EPP. Did the necessary, turned on the computer, no found new hardware message, it just installed LTP3. As it turns out, although a different card it has the same moss chip and just seems to have picked up and re-installed the installed drive. (is that possible?) Can't see how to get it to install from the CD even after un-installing it in device manager.


How do you get these cards to operate EPP???? Nothing in Bios, nothing in device manager etc to change config.

How do you un-install and get it to re-install from the CD (assuming there is an option on the CD for EPP)?

Cheers Guys for your continued support. I just hope eventually I get this going.

I have had enough for today.

Nigel

Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 24, 2011, 06:50:22 AM
If you have a CD for it then in device manager right click on the LPT3 and then choose Update Drivers. In the wizard choose No Not at this time, Next, Install from a List or specific location, Choose to search CD or in box below actually browse to the CD then click next and hopefully it will find the driver.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 24, 2011, 06:53:54 AM
Hi Nigel,

This is totally untested but you could try uninstalling the device then - Control Panel / Classic View / Add Hardware wizard to install it again, inserting the disk when prompted. (if you remove the PP card and insert it in another PCI slot it should be seen as a new device without uninstall).

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 24, 2011, 06:57:34 AM
Hi Guys
For your further info.
I have tried un-installing in device manager, opened the CD and found a folder winxp... , opened this and selected install icon, then I get the message "this must run in windows 95/98".

Snookered again.

You must think I am making this up?

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 24, 2011, 07:25:14 AM
Hi Hood.
I have gone through the procedure you suggested.
I scans the CD then says it can't find more up to date software than what's already on my computer. I tried "don't search, I will choose a driver to install", selected what I though was the correct driver, get message "The wizard has finished installing software for PCI ECP Parallel Port", no config options.

Hi Tweakie
I un-installed the card and fitted it to a different PCI slot, turned on the computer and it just installed it's self as before, no options just reappeared in device manager.

EPP completely eludes me.

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 24, 2011, 09:51:23 AM
Not sure what to suggest, its been a long time since I have used the parallel port so cant really remember how/if anything can be done.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 24, 2011, 10:41:48 AM
Hi Nigel,

I just made a special trip to my workshop to check the PC connected to my router which uses two parallel ports.

It has Award BIOS and under;
Integrated Peripherals
Onboard Super IO Device
Parallel Port mode

It allows selection of the onboard pp mode between ECP/EPP/SPP/ECP+EPP

My second pp card, as mentioned earlier, was set as EPP 1.9 during install.

Don't know if this helps.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 24, 2011, 11:20:31 AM
Thanks again guys, and thanks Tweakie for taking the trouble to look at your set up.
My computer does not have an integral parallel port.
The two PCI cards I have tries both have a moss chip, I think identical, I did not realise this when I bought the second one. There has not been any option to change them to EPP in installation and any way to change the configuration eludes me even though their spec says EPP compatible.

I think my best bet is to try yet another PCI card that does not have a moss chip set and preferably a jumper setting for EPP. Hopefully this way I can get to the required set up.

This can't be happening, I must be dreaming.

Cheers Nigel

Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 24, 2011, 11:51:06 AM
Hi Nigel,

Sorry that I cannot suggest a solution.
I am sure you will get there in the end but just how complicated can things get ?  :)

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 27, 2011, 11:47:31 AM
Hi
Some progress of sorts.
I changed the PCI card but could not find a new one that does not have the moss chip set and no config options presented on installation. Also changed the parallel cable.

With the charge pump disabled I can move the motors using mach3 where as before I could not

In the diagnostics screen the home switch leds operate when I press the switches, before they did not.

The home switches don't stop the motors when presses, I assume that's because the charge pump is disabled.

The emergency stop wired to the gecko drive operates as it should.

However, with the charge pump enabled, the red fault light still lights on the gecko drive and no power to the motors.
The gecko manual is not much help, it just says for this condition that the cnc software is not putting a voltage to the charge pump via pin 16.

What I don't understand is:-
On the diagnostics screen there is a representation of the DB25 connector. Assuming the pin nos are top row right to left pin 1, 2, 3...., bottom row right to left pin 13, 14 .....
The x home switch set to pin 10, but pin 5 lights
The y home switch set to pin 11, but pin 7 lights
The z home switch set to pin 12, but pin 6 lights
Pin 9 is on all the time

All input signals off except when home switch presses, seems OK.
All output signals off, so no signal to the charge pump then?

With the charge pump off, operating the motors does not light up any pin or input/output led's.

So I guess my parallel port is still not correct?

I thought I maybe could use the drive with the charge pump disabled but as the home/limit switches don't stop the motors that's not an option.

Nigel

Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 27, 2011, 02:15:27 PM
You mention Home switches but not Limit switches, do you have the Limits enabled? If not then your findings are correct as Home Switches do not trip Mach.

Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 27, 2011, 07:43:18 PM
Hi Hood
Currently I have the limit switches disabled. I will enable them and give it a try.

So all being well I guess I could use it with the charge pump disabled until I can get it sorted.

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 28, 2011, 02:12:12 AM
I remember issues with Chargepump and G540 but think it was in relation to the SmoothStepper but may be worth a search in case it was not only that.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 28, 2011, 08:37:38 AM
Hi Guys
Eureka, I have CNC although with out the charge pump.
I enabled the limit switches and they work fine, also ref home all works fine.
I used a volt meter on the parallel pins to see if I could determine any problem.
One thing I noticed is that in pin 16, the charge pump, the voltage is slightly below 2v, I wonder if this is too low?
The results are as follows:-
Pin  / volts
1 / 0
2 / 0
3/ 2.5
4 / 0
5 / 0
6 / 0
7 / 2.5
8 / 0
9 / 0
10 / 2.5
11 / 2.5
12 / 2.5
13 /2.5
14 /0
15 /2.5
16 /1.9
17/ 0 (e stop)
18 /0
19 /0
20 /0
21 /0
22 /0
23 /0
24/0
25 test ground

I think from 21 to 25 are all ground
I am not sure what to make of the results other than my concern for the voltage on pin 16.
Don't know why it's now working, I changed the PCI board and the cable so could be either, I will try the old cable again later to see if that was the problem.
I would like ti get the charge pump working though.

Well now I can start learning and practicing CNC, just trying to get my head around off sets, hopefully this week end I can build the confidence to cut metal.

Thanks so much for your help, it's given me direction.

hopefully I can get the old driver working with a new breakout board and without blowing computers, that will give me CNC in my Singapore and UK home workshops.

feeling much happier now. Out of failure comes success and knowledge.  ;D

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 28, 2011, 08:58:48 AM
2.5v seems quite low not trying to be funny but you definitely had your meter on DC volts?
Most decent BOBs can buffer the voltage but 2.5 is low and may cause issues in the future as it will be very susceptible to noise.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 28, 2011, 09:34:10 AM
Hi Hood
Yes, I have my meter set to dc volts, actually I miss read the 2.5. All the 2.5 values should read 3v but the 1.9v on pin 16 is correct. I thought these voltages may be of some concern. I was expecting nearer 4 to 5v, would that be a typical value?

My meter is a cheap affair but when I checked my power supply it did give the correct voltage reading so I assumed it's accurate enough.
Well, I will see how it goes for now.
I have joined the gecko forum so can ask questions about the charge pump and voltage on pin 16. At least I can practice a bit, it's all new to me and I am looking forward to the learning.

Cheers

Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 28, 2011, 09:39:27 AM
Voltage on pin 16 when set to  the Chargepump function will be a pulse so the voltage will show lower as your meter will not be fast enough to see the changes. If you set it up for example as the coolant on pin 16 then you should see a higher voltage.
Lots of onboard ports are now 3.3v but usually PCI ones are nearer the 5v although maybe that is not the case nowadays.

Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 28, 2011, 10:26:23 AM
Hi Hood
Did as you suggested and I get 3v on pin 16 so you're right. Therefore ,I have an output signal to the charge pump but with the charge pump enabled the drives remain disabled and don't accept the motor drive and direction signals.

Thanks again
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 28, 2011, 10:29:22 AM
Best ask Gecko as I know there are definitely issues with the chargepump and the Smoothstepper. What I seem to remember is it is the setting on General Config page that turns off chargepump on E-Stop, disable that option and I think it works, so may be worth a try.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 28, 2011, 10:30:54 AM
Its Chargepump enabled in E-Stop that the option is called so you will need to enable it and see if it helps.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 28, 2011, 10:45:07 AM
Hi Hood, the "chargepump enable in E stop" was checked so I assume that's enabled. I did uncheck it to see what happened but no change.

I will ask the Gecko forum and let you know if a solution comes forward.

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 28, 2011, 11:28:22 AM
Hopefully they will have an answer :)
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 29, 2011, 07:11:44 AM
Hi Guys
I noticed that on my mother board there is a 26 pin male connector. I am wondering if this will be an on board parallel port and just needs a DB25 socket fitted via a ribbon cable.

LTP1 is listed in the device manager and can be configured to EPP as recommended by Gecko via the bios. If so then maybe this is a better option than the PCI board.

Just wondering if I should see if I can get a cable and give it a try. I am only guessing as to what this connector on the mother board is for.

Appreciate any guidance. Should I leave well alone?

In any event I can sue the machine as is without the charge pump. I posted on the Gecko forum but no replies yet.

Cheers

Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 29, 2011, 07:15:33 AM
Have a look in the BIOS and see if there is mention of a parallel port, if there is then that is likely what the connector is. What make/model is the mobo?
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 29, 2011, 07:28:08 AM
Hi Hood
In the Bios, under Advanced, super IO config. is listed:
Parallel Port Address [378]
Parallel Port Mode [options are ECP, EPP & ECP+EPP]
Parallel Port IRQ [7]

The computer is not a brand name, on the mother board the only marking I can see is G31-M7-TE.

This looks promising

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 29, 2011, 07:58:59 AM
As you say Nigel - This looks promising  ;)

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 29, 2011, 07:59:24 AM
Its a BioStar and heres the specs ;)

Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 29, 2011, 09:50:48 AM
Thanks Guys
I will see if I can get a cable and give it a try.

Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 30, 2011, 09:50:33 AM
Hi Guys
Just a quick update.
Local computer shop made up an IDE/DB25 cable for me.
The socket on the mother board does not give any definite guidance for the orientation of the connection so I took a guess. On checking with the volt meter the needle went backwards. I reversed the connections and now get 5v on most of the pins however, to my reckoning the pins no.s are reversed, so Pin 1 is actint as pin13 and so on. I tried it on my gecko driver anyway, set the address in ports and pins to 378 but it did not move the motors.

So I assume that one of the connectors on the ribbon cable is the wrong way round? Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

So for now I will just continue to use my PCI parallel port with out the charge pump.

Did a bit practice machining to day, material "thin air", all seemed to go well, will try on aluminium tomorrow.

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 30, 2011, 10:18:23 AM
Us ually there is a mark or a 1 at the number 1 pin, if its an IDC style socket then the pinouts usually go odd numbers along one row and even on the other. Can you take a close up pic of it and post.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 31, 2011, 02:12:55 AM
Hi Hood
I have some pics but can't understand how to post them.
I tried putting the file path in i.e. (http://file path) but the preview did not show anything.

Anyway, I can see things much clearer from the photo, the port is marked 'JPRT1' and the botton row are odd no's 1 to 25 and top row even 2 to 26, the last pin no 26 of the male plug on the board is removed making 25 pins in total.

I have been cutting metal today, some engraving and circular pocketing, all went well.

Originally I set my table to move in the direction of the arrows on the jog buttons (table moving in relation to fixed cutter) ie X axis moving right to left -ve direction but this did not correlate with the tool display in mach3 and machining moves were backwards. (similar with the Y axis moving from back to front foe -ve)

I reconfigured so that when using the jog buttons I  imagine the cutter moves relative to the table (imagine table stationary)making x axis moves left to right -ve direction. (Y axis now moving front to back for -ve direction)
Now everything seems right but I do find it a bit confusing when jogging having to imagine the table is stationary and the cutter moves relative to the table.

Cheers
Nigel





Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 31, 2011, 04:37:34 AM
Another try at am image

(http://C:\Users\Nigel\Pictures\cnc computer\IMG_0650)
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 31, 2011, 04:41:53 AM
Click on "Additional Options"  then "Choose File".  ;)

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 31, 2011, 05:22:14 AM
Thanks Tweakie.
I checked on the size of my files and they exceed to 6000kb.

Hi Hood
The pics can be seen at this link:http://modelengineerwizard.wordpress.com/ (http://modelengineerwizard.wordpress.com/)

Thanks again guys

Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 31, 2011, 06:26:09 AM
Yes, pinout just as I thought it would be,  have you got it connected up that way?
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 31, 2011, 06:34:56 AM
Hi Hood
Yes I believe so
When you look at the DB25 the blue wire has been cut away, I have connected the other end so that the blue wire is at the side where the missing pin is. Connected this way I get 5v on many of the pins. It does not not move the motors though. I am just wondering if the db25 has been connected in the wrong orientation. It was a computer parts shop that assembled it so I would expect them to get it right.

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 31, 2011, 06:45:19 AM
If you have an ohm meter just ring through pin to pin, the DB25 will be numbered 1 to 13 along the row and 14...... 25 the next, the IDC will be 1, 3 5 to 25 on one row and 2, 4 6.... 24 on the other.
You should be able to see the pin numbers on the DB25 if you look close enough so you know which end pin 1 is at but it will be left end as you look into the connector with the 13 pin row at the top or right if you are looking at the soldered connections on the back

Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 31, 2011, 07:01:26 AM
Just noticed your other pics ;D Not sure how the Ribbon type connections work on the back of a DB25 but I would imagine its correct, so if Pin 1 wire which I presume is the brown on the end goes to pin 1 on the IDC socket then check the next pin and see if 2 goes to 2, if it does then it should all be correct.
If that is correct then have you put the correct address in Mach for that port?

Oh and to answer the earlier question about the axis travels you should always think of the cutter in relation to the material, moving positive on a mill would mean table moving left as that would make the cutter move positive in  relation to the work piece.
You can if you wish set up the arrow keys to what suits you most by going to Config menu Then System Hotkeys but personally I would stick to convention.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 31, 2011, 07:33:32 AM
Hi Hood
Ok, I have tested both the db25 plug that fits to the drive and yes, now that you mention it, I can see the pin no's.
Don't know if it makes a difference but for this test I set mach3 to port 378, kept mach 3 running with the reset button pressed to clear e stop message.
First I tested the db25 that plugs into the drive, then disconnected the ribbon cable (computer still running), then tested the pins on the mother board.

Mixed results

On the db25 results are.

Pins 1 to 16 have 5v
Pins 17 to 25 ov

On the mother board
All Odd no's 5v + pins 2,4 & 6 5v
Remaining even no pins 8 to24 0v


Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on July 31, 2011, 07:36:27 AM
Hi Hood
OK I will check pins 1 and 2 as you suggest and let you know, probably tomorrow.

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 31, 2011, 07:41:15 AM
Hi Nigel,

I don't know if this helps but the usual motherboard pinout connection between the header and D25 is as shown here.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 31, 2011, 07:44:41 AM
Tweakie, I would say the IDC in your pic is wrong, pin 14 would normally be pin 2,  so top row would be 1, 3, 5.......25  and bottom row 2, 4 ,6 ..... 26

Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 31, 2011, 12:06:21 PM
Hi Hood,

I understand what you mean ("pin 14 would normally be pin 2") it is in fact the second cable in the line but it does connect to pin 14 at the D25 end so it is cunningly called pin 14 at the IDC end. It is probably all done to confuse us all  :D
The attached SS documentation shows the male socket and some pin locations.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 31, 2011, 12:21:26 PM
Tweakie, the SS is a different beast, Greg deliberately set it up that way so that it looked right for the DB, look at the description he put there. If you look at the pic of the port on the mobo that Nigel posted you will see that it conforms to the standard setup for IDC, ie one row is odd pins the other even.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 31, 2011, 01:08:47 PM
Hi Hood,

If you obtain one of these headers, which are designed to connect a Motherboard IDC to a parallel port printer and check the pin connections with a meter you will find that they agree with my earlier diagram.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 31, 2011, 01:15:17 PM
Well I would be surprised at that as it would mean numbering on mobo is wrong or is of no relevance but it could well be the case. I do know I have just set up serial on the onboard header for my PLC and pin numbering was as printed on mobo, ie one row 1, 3 5 7, 9 and the other 2, 4, 6, 8 but serail may be different.

Hood.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 31, 2011, 01:29:37 PM
Well I just looked at all my mobos to see if there are headers on for the parallel port but afraid not so I cant test. It would however be easy for Nigel to test, just set up pins in Mach such as set up coolant for pin 2 and switch coolant on/off and measure directly at the header, either it will be the second pin in the row or the first pin in the other.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on July 31, 2011, 02:00:11 PM
Hi Hood,

You are quite right about the IDC pinout convention with odd numbers in one row and even numbers in another row.

It would look silly if we described the connections of this parallel port header as "pin1 to pin 1" ; "pin2 to pin3" ; "pin3 to pin 5" etc.
 
So to be precise:-  My diagram shows where each pin from the D25 connector ends up when it is terminated at the IDC end of the ribbon cable. The pin numbers shown in my diagram are the same as those marked on the D25 connector. (The note on the SS diagram covers this exact point and was probably put there to avoid all this sort of confusion).

If you are still in doubt - get a header cable, test it with a meter and be surprised  ;)

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 31, 2011, 05:03:52 PM
Well I will have to download the manual and see if it has the pinouts to see if I am surprised or not. hopefully it will as I am Scottish and would hate to have to spend money on something I would never use and then on top find out I am wrong ;D

Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 31, 2011, 05:11:55 PM
Page from manual. So I am surprised but no lighter in the pocket ;D
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on July 31, 2011, 05:20:38 PM
And this is why I thought it would follow the same, a serial header.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on August 01, 2011, 01:09:05 AM
Hi Guys
I did a test with the following result

IDE pin 1 = DB25 Pin 1
IDE pin2 = DB25 Pin 14

So the cable shown on the attachment must use a specific db25 to get the pin no's correct, whereas the cable made up by the shop just uses a basic db25.

So all I need to do is workout the equivalent pin no's on the db 25 and reconfigure mach 3 accordingly.

Well, I have certainly learnt allot from this saga. I am keen to try LTP1 as it's giving out 5v as opposed to the 3v on the PCI parallel port. I am hoping it will also solve my problem with the Gecko g540 charge pump though I am not sure that the voltage will make a difference, be nice to get it working with the charge pump enabled though.

Thanks again for all your interest and help guys. On what I now know I will see if I can get LPT1 working correctly with Mach 3.

Cheers
Nigel

Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on August 01, 2011, 01:35:47 AM
Hi Guys
So my pin no's will be
IDE   DB25
1    1
2    14
3    2
4    15
5    3
6    16
7    4
8    17
9    5
10   18
11   6
12   19
13   7
14   20
15   8
16   21
17   9
18   22
19   10
20   23
21   11
22   24
23   12
24   25
25   13

Right?

Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on August 01, 2011, 01:47:26 AM
Hi Nigel,

Looks good to me.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on August 01, 2011, 03:11:04 AM
Yes pinout is as Tweakie said. I presumed the board would have been numbered (silk screen) in the way Gregs  SmoothStepper is if it was that way but I suppose as the mobo manual gives the pinouts then no need.

Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on August 01, 2011, 07:21:51 AM
Nigel,

If you get the chance I would like to know how your present cable / header is wired please.

Just out of curiosity I took a look at some serial connection D9 to IDC header cables and they are wired exactly the same way as the D25's.
Thinking about it, if they were wired D pin1 to IDC pin1 etc. then, at some point the wires would have to cross and that perhaps defeats the idea of ribbon cable and IDC.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on August 01, 2011, 08:23:17 AM
Hi Guys
I don't seem to have my head around this. I tried reconfiguring but no movement on the motors, port set to 378.
for example: Gecko specify pin 10,11 & 12 as xyz home.
So I changed pin 10 to19, 11 to 21 & 12 to23 and so on for all the pins.
So I am back to using the PCI board again for now.

Tweakie: so far I only tested pins 1 and 2 on the IDE and found corresponding pins on the DB25 as 1 & 14 then worked out the rest from there assuming it goes as for your diagram. To answer your question I think I will need to go through and test all the corresponding pins between the two connectors. I will do this tomorrow and let you know.

Maybe I am doing something very wrong???

Might be better if I just wait till I can get a proper cable, I think this one may be what I am looking for http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motherboard-Parallel-LPT-Printer-Port-Cable-bracket-PC-/190560095507?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1753118686090122247&_qi=RTM742988 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motherboard-Parallel-LPT-Printer-Port-Cable-bracket-PC-/190560095507?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1753118686090122247&_qi=RTM742988)

Cheers

Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on August 01, 2011, 08:37:42 AM
Nigel, if you go along the row testing from pin 1 on DB it should match all the way along the row on the mobo pin for pin, then from pin 14 on DB it should match all the way along the other row of the IDC.
I would think your cable should be right as it is. The mobo although numbered as IDC is internally connected to match the DB25.

The serial however is not as it follows normal IDC numbering, this doesnt concern you but is why I was surprised the parallel port header was wired differently albeit logically.

Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on August 01, 2011, 09:05:11 AM
Nigel, this is how your DB25 should be connected to your Header on the mobo. The top one is the DB25. As you can see you only need to locate pin one on each connector and then they should be wired 1 for 1 along the row and then same for the lower row.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on August 01, 2011, 04:24:05 PM
Hi Hood
I am sure your diagram is correct for what I have but let me check and confirm.
If so this would mean IDE+DB25, 1=1, 2=14 and so on.
What I am wondering is, for the cable I found on ebay ref link in previous post, are the pins wired as your diagram or are they wired 1=1, 2=2, 3=3 and so on?
If the ebay item is wired as per your diagram (and if my wiring is the same) then I should leave the config as per the Gecko spec. If this is the case then there is another reason why it's not working.

The LTP1 is enabled. I am sure the IDE is plugged in correctly.
I will recheck the ribbon cable pin to pin wiring and let you guys know.
Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on August 01, 2011, 05:37:03 PM
It would seem that the standard for mobo headers for PPs is as Tweakie said and in the above drawing so I would think the eBay one would conform as well. It is correct that way as the pinout in the manual confirmed that, you can do a google for printer port pinout and you will see it matches if you go along the rows of the IDC header rather than by the numbering on the mobo.

Easiest thing to do is open a new profile, put the address for the onboard port  in and set up an output for coolant to pin 1 and set the relay up for the coolant to that output number on the spindle setup page. You can then toggle the coolant button and have your voltmeter on pin 1 and pin 25 of IDC and see if voltage changes, if it does then you know the port is working fine.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on August 19, 2011, 09:04:56 AM
Hi Hood &Tweakie
Just a note to say sorry for not getting back to you, the reason is that work has taken me away from Singapore and therefore away from my cnc. It will probably be end Sept before I can resume my cnc endeavour.
However, before leaving I did manage to complete some 3d test machining in Aluminium and used Mechcam to generate the g code, opens up lots of possibilities for the future. It would be nice though to be able sort out the Gecko charge pump problem and also get LTP 1 port working.

Hopefully then in a few weeks I can report some progress.

Thanks for your support, you have both been a big help.

Cheers for now.

Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on August 19, 2011, 10:53:35 AM
Hi Nigel,

I look forward to seeing some pictures of the things you make with your CNC - we all love to see pictures  :)

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on August 19, 2011, 07:23:43 PM
Hopefully you will also get the port working, guy a few days ago managed on his mobo so yours should be fine as well :)
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on August 20, 2011, 05:20:51 AM
Hi Guys
I will certainly post some pics, I may set up a blog or something, 'my cnc adventure', just a thought.
I am looking to convert a larger mill in my UK workshop but as I spend most of my time in Singapore at the moment the Sherline will enable me to gain some experience.
I already have Gecko servo motor drivers and servo motors with encoders but due to overseas work commitments it will be some time before I get around fitting this to the mill.
 Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on August 21, 2011, 06:03:33 AM
I noticed in another post reference to problems using a pci port card with the G540 driver especially because the G540 uses EPP. The issues I had with my PCI cards (3 in total before one worked) was that they were ECP/EPP but I could not configure to one or the other + the card was putting out just over 3v. Another poster in the thread made reference to using Lava PCI cards so I had a look, they do an EPP card at 5v. As this appears to meet the spec exactly so I think I will get one of these and give it a try, hopefully it may resolve the out standing issues.

If I can get LTP1 up and running as well then I have plenty scope for experimenting with additional functions.

Cheers
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on August 21, 2011, 07:22:27 AM
Just some more info.
I found this Model PMDX-2PARPCI card.

The supplier says "The Geckodrive G540 charge pump signal will work with this card without having to set EPP mode. The G540 normally requires the port to be in EPP mode and most PCI bus cards (unlike motherboard parallel ports) cannot be forced into EPP mode. PMDX has custom modified the first port of this card to be compatible with the G540. It is also compatible with all PMDX products and with most conventional breakout boards".

It enhances my suspicions about my current ECP/EPP compatible card. However, $60 delivery charge outside USA is a bit steep.

Nigel

Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on August 21, 2011, 07:38:01 AM
Seems more expensive for delivery than I have ever been but maybe not as its been a while since I bought PMDX BOBs. BTW PMDX stuff is top notch.
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on August 23, 2011, 11:30:59 AM
Hi Hood
After contacting they gave me a delivery charge of 19USD so I am going to order PMDX parallel port.

Apparently the 60USD is a default PayPal thing and you have to contact them for an accurate delivery charge.

As this PCI board is properly spec'ed for the G540 am confident this will resolve outstanding issues.

Have recently read other threads concerning parallel ports I can appreciate why I have had some problems.

Cheres
Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on August 23, 2011, 02:31:24 PM
Thats more like it :)

Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: newatcnc on October 09, 2011, 01:33:49 PM
Hi Hood/Tweakie and everyone
I am back in Singapore so can continue with my cnc.

All systems go now :)

Just to recap, I was having problems with my PCI card as I could not configure it to EPP mode and windows was not doing so presumably because windows does not recognise the G540 driver. I had everything working with the charge pump disabled.

While in the USA I bought a PMDX-2PARPCI  card and have installed this, this worked immediately with the charge pump enabled. Works perfect.

I had also discovered that although my PC did not have a printer port there is a printerport connection on the mother board but my attempts to use it via a ribbon cable had failed. Well I bought a new ribbon cable and this now also works perfect, I set it to EPP mode via the bios.

So now I have more operational printer ports than I need! but I have learnt alot for my next cnc conversion/build.

It's been a saga and expensive learning curve.
1. If your pc does not have a printer port check your mother board before going down the PCI card route.
2. If you have to use a PCI card don't just buy a cheap EPP/ECP compatible PCI card unless you know you can configure it as appropriate, go to a speciallist cnc supplier for these types of products.


I also bought a Lava EPP only card as backup but have not tried this yet.

Thanks for your help guys, it's been a frustrating journey but you kept me going

Nigel
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Hood on October 09, 2011, 01:43:35 PM
Glad you are up and running :)
Hood
Title: Re: Computer problem after running mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on October 10, 2011, 01:43:24 AM
Hi Nigel,

Good to hear that you have it all sorted.

Tweakie.