Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: crystallattice on June 21, 2011, 06:34:47 AM

Title: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: crystallattice on June 21, 2011, 06:34:47 AM
Hi Guys,

I've been tinkering around with Mach3 here at work with a student built CNC mill and also helping a friend with a small Emco CNC lathe upgrade. With all the tinkering I really decided that it is time I get my own breakout board to play with at home as I have had a long interest in building my own machine.

Currently it would seem as if only LPT port breakout boards are available and the USB versions are either lacking in functionality or has poor support or are just plain expensive. I have some old PCs lying around at home but think going the USB route is the logical one. The board I'm currently interested in can be found at: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/445057014/4_Axis_CNC_Breakout_Board_Mach3_USB_Interface_Board_Capable_with_Windows2000_XP_Vista_etc_.html

From what have I read it has most of the things I would want. Although it has no relay output, it is easy enough to add that later with another PCB. The price also compares well (hardly any difference) with locally supplied LPT board with similar functionality.

Has anyone ever bought one of these? Know of compatibility issues? Know of other similarly priced USB boards? I've contacted the supplier with some questions and am awaiting his reply but thought I'd ask here as they claim it is Mach3 compatible (R3.042.040) which would mean someone must have tested it...

Best Regards
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Hood on June 21, 2011, 06:57:09 AM
Have seen it mentioned before in questions but dont know of anyone that has used one and have never seen the plugin that would be needed for it.
Hood
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on June 21, 2011, 07:58:23 AM
Crystallattice

As far as I know, nobody has used one of these boards yet or at least reported back on it's use and as you say it does seems a logical progression.
I am a bit strapped for funds at the moment otherwise I would buy one just to try - Somebody has to be the first, why not you ?

Tweakie.

Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: crystallattice on June 21, 2011, 09:21:43 AM
Tweakie I'll gladly be the first, just waiting for someone to send me the funds.....

There are options which has free shipping to US (which is not where I am...)

I'm also strapped for cash, that's always been the delay for building my own. I work for an university and used their spare board for my friends lathe project as he wanted to test first before going any further. They needed the board again at work so his machine is standing again. I was looking for a simple LPT/USB design which I can make myself when I decided USB would probably be better especially compared to the local LPT version.

They will only get my questions at 9AM Beijing time, so I'll still have to wait a bit I suppose.

I didn't think to ask about the driver as they said it does not need any, but further down on the page they tell you to copy a dll to the Mach3 folder??

Will keep you guys posted!

Best Regards
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Hood on June 21, 2011, 09:40:34 AM
The USB part wont need a driver but you will need a plugin (dll) to allow Mach to talk.
One other thing is it seems from a quick glance that its only 1 port worth of I/O, that may or may not be enough and I wonder if you can add more? For example the SmoothStepper has two parallel ports worth of I/O plus another 6 inputs, so although you would really still need a breakout board it may not sounds so expensive compared to that board if requiring the extra I/O

Hood
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: crystallattice on June 21, 2011, 10:28:19 AM
Hood, I'm not sure how many I/Os the other boards have but this has three outputs per axis, alot of inputs, speed output and input for the spindle and if memory serves me correct 8 outputs for coolant and other stuff. If you count the opto couplers by the inputs you should get and idea of how many are available. Judging by the string of LEDs it would seem there is more. Either way, for my purposes I think it will be enough.

I did a quick google search for the "usbmove.zip" they refer to but only found some chinese links. I will ask the guy when he reponds to elaborate on that. Maybe it's a generic Mach3 dll?

Otherwise I thought I could convince the university to buy one for a student... If it works I'll buy my own, if not, I'll still have my bucks safe in the bank!

Best Regards
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Hood on June 21, 2011, 10:35:26 AM
Yes, looked again and it indeed does seem to have at least 16 inputs.
Dont think there is such a thing as a generic plugin as they need to be tailored to talk to each device as each will have its own requirements. It will have its own plugin as it has to have one to work and the tools are available from Mach to make your own. How good or bad it is will only be known when someone buys one and reports back, hopefully your Uni will have the money for that, no need to telll them they will be the pioneers ;D

Hood
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Richard on June 21, 2011, 01:55:59 PM
I tried to post the manual but it did not work, send me your email, and i will try to send it to you directly, as a RAR file,( the whole usb-move file)
You will laugh when you read the manual, but it look's as though it can be figured out

Richard
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Hood on June 21, 2011, 01:58:58 PM
You can attach the manual if you use the additional options on the reply page, if its of a format that the forum doesnt accept then just zip and it should be fine.
Hood
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Richard on June 21, 2011, 02:07:03 PM
Ok, one more try!
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Hood on June 21, 2011, 02:10:38 PM
Ha ha thats the best Chinglish I have seen for a while.
Hood
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Hood on June 21, 2011, 02:14:09 PM
Do you have one Richard?
Hood
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Richard on June 21, 2011, 02:28:06 PM
No, I went with smoothstepper instead. I got the file off of ebay when someone here posted the link.
I couldn't find it on ebay today, maybe de-listed?
the other files are an dll, a script for probing and a readme file

I was thinking of using one for a future build, but I think I will wait for some feedback first ;)

Richard
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Hood on June 21, 2011, 02:32:10 PM
Oh well lets hope the Uni is brave enough to try it as it would be good to see how well it works. Shame the frequency is just 200KHz though.
Hood
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on June 22, 2011, 02:21:50 AM
Hi Richard,

Thanks for posting the file, most interesting.
I did laugh a couple of times but their diagrammatic representations (assuming them to be correct) are extremely good and leave little doubt as to how stuff is connected. I wonder how well the board actually works though.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: crystallattice on June 22, 2011, 03:13:28 AM
Thanks Richard, can you please also post the other files?

I don't know what you guys are complaining about, that is a very comprehensive manual, if you can read Chinese....

I looked through the manual and found the name Xulifeng, a google search yielded a site, can't see the relevance though, but did find something interesting on there..... http://www.xulifeng.com/cp.asp?sort=9&id=9# Makes me think I should think more outside of the box.... would have had 1000's of patents by now....

Another search did give some interesting results: http://www.usinages.com/download.php?id=65828 The links gives you an english manual.

While I'm typing this I'm also checking in the two manuals that I just downloaded. Damn! This english manual makes me want to buy it! The cncdiy.org website which the document refers to sells the board for about $40 cheaper than the first link I posted but think the other is more reliable... The site also offers a circuit diagram for the board! Not something I've seen for other boards! The site also has a youtube vid showing that the board works (aka lights flashing and steppers moving...)

I thought I should check out what the link I got the other manual from was all about (http://www.usinages.com/portal.php) looks like some French? CNC site. Parlez-vous Français ?

PS. I also found this yesterday: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-3-axis-CNC-USB-Card-Mach3-windows2000-xp-vista-/220785284546?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D260759887366%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D803314460510465115

Any comments?

I'll test the dll on my MAch3 so long - just to see what it does...

Best Regards

Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on June 22, 2011, 04:38:48 AM
There is a little bit more info on the board here; http://www.cooperman.talktalk.net/Info1a.zip (http://www.cooperman.talktalk.net/Info1a.zip)

Tweakie.
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: crystallattice on June 22, 2011, 07:55:09 AM
Thanks Tweakie, this is the same files I got from the http://www.cncdiy.org site. I had a look at your site and the things you have done with your CNC, I'm stunned and very jealous!!!! Can't believe the laser cutting stuff. I really need to get a CNC!
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on June 22, 2011, 08:11:13 AM
Quote
I really need to get a CNC!

Is it possible to survive without a CNC ?  ;D

Tweakie.
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Richard on June 22, 2011, 12:02:21 PM
Here's the rest of the files, Tweakie link has a much better manual (in English even)

Richard
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Richard on June 22, 2011, 12:42:17 PM
A "Tweakie link"?, I'd have one of those with some chip's

Richard.
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: crystallattice on June 22, 2011, 03:13:06 PM
Oh well lets hope the Uni is brave enough to try it as it would be good to see how well it works. Shame the frequency is just 200KHz though.
Hood

Hood do you really think 200KHz is slow? I spoke to the student who built the CNC and he said he has set Mach to about 75KHz. He uses servo motors with Gecko drives, but think that steppers would perform just as fast. I can't remember what feed rate he could get but remember that it was quite fast. I tried to see what the smoothstepper specs are and it seems it is 4MHz but when you look in the documentation it seems there is a mistake/contradiction when you look at the explanation about the buffered time vs speed.

I looked through the other card's manual again and it seems it is is fixed at 200KHz but you can adjust the buffer time and the usb speed is rated at 48Mbs (running directly into the microcontroller - which seems like it is acting as usb to parallel bridge) as opposed to the smoothstepper @12Mbs with a FTDI bridge chip which might be the bottleneck.

PS. There seems to be a forum at: http://cncdiy.forumr.biz/

Best Regards
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Hood on June 22, 2011, 03:57:31 PM
The 200KHz is the frequency of the steps and yes for my machines it is too low, for example the Bridgeport I am re-doing at the moment has servos with 2000 counts per rev encoders, thats 8,000 as far as Mach is concerned. Motors will spin at 5000rpm so that is (8,000 x 5,000)/60 = 666.666KHz

I could use electronic gearing in my servo drives but I prefer not to.

Smoothstepper is capable of pulsing at 4MHz.
Hood
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: crystallattice on June 23, 2011, 08:14:40 AM
Hood, how do you use Mach and which servo drives do you use? Mach has a kernel speed limit of 100KHz (as far as I know) and the Geckos have a limit of 250KHz.

Best Regards
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Hood on June 23, 2011, 08:30:57 AM
I use the SmoothStepper which has a max of 4MHz pulse rate and Allen Bradley DSD drives which if I recall correctly have a max of 10MHz

Hood
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Hood on June 23, 2011, 08:33:14 AM
Just looked for Step/Dir its only 2.5MHz for he DSD drives.
Hood
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: crystallattice on June 23, 2011, 11:34:23 AM
So does the kernal speed not affect a USB breakoutboard? I seem to have tracked down the guy who makes the other board. It seems he has done some extensive testing, a few million cycles in Mach3 without problems. He has also made some improvements on the board over the past 2 years or so. It was difficult following everything as it was posted on a chinese forum. I asked Walter from CNCDIY if a faster speed is available as it seems the guy who made it did so for using on an engraver which might not need as a high speed. It would also be nice if he made the source available for those of us adventurous enough to try and modify it. Will see what else I can do.

Best Regards
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Hood on June 23, 2011, 12:29:16 PM
The Kernel speed is only for use with the parallel port, external controllers do the pulsing so it depends on the hardware what that will be. I think the DSPMC and KFlop are about the 2MHz range, not sure about the Galil.
There are also the Mesa and Centipede, I think they adhere to the kernel as per parallel port as they use drivers like the Mach pulsing engine. There is however a plugin being done for the Mesa which should allow more frequency.

Hood
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Rhonmac on November 23, 2011, 04:42:13 AM
Hi, i`m new to this forum.
i can see you and others have been looking at the Xulifeng USB board for Mach3, any luck, i have one and have wired up set Mach as the manual but cannot get anything out of it.

I have no problems with mach the way i normally use it, but am looking for an all encompassing board.

BOB--Driver--Motors
Reg
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: crystallattice on November 23, 2011, 01:26:33 PM
Hi,

Yes, they work quite well. Although mine burnt out due to insufficient load.... ???

If you look at the schematic/manual of the board, you will see a DC-DC converter to isolate the 5V supply of the board from the USB port (Black rectangle made by Mornsun). The manual does not state this but the datasheet does - the DC-DC converter does not have short circuit protection and also needs a minimum of 10% (of max) current draw to function properly.

You can connect a LED to the 5V output and ensure it draws 20mA and you're sorted as the max current the DC-DC can supply is 200mA.

Other than that, remember to connect pull-up resistors to all the step/dir outputs as they are open collector type drivers and to have a common ground. The PWM speed output is the same. I used 10Kohm. I have not tested the 8 dedicated outputs or the speed feedback. The nice thing about this setup is that you can use another PSU to feed the step/dir outputs (remember the board can only supply 200mA max so it is best to use another PSU) also keep in mind that the step/dir output drivers can only sink about 15mA (check manual) so adjust your pull-up resistors according to the PSU voltage you use.

Double check the max input voltage of the 16 inputs as they are low voltage/current types and you need to include a series resistor if you want to use say 24V as the input voltage.

If you go to the cncdiy website there is an option where you can register to get access to the manual, which is newer than the other one which I found somewhere. I can try and attach it to a later reply as I do not have it on me. I did not read the whole manual but recall that some things were a little clearer.

Anyways, hope you get it working and welcome to the CNC arena

Best Regards
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Rhonmac on November 29, 2011, 08:51:30 AM
Hi, thanks for the reply, picked it up today have been away.

When you say to put a 5vdc led in the circuit i assume you mean the +5v and ground on the step/direction outputs. If so i  have tried one following your suggestion and the led does not light. The led is ok.

Any other help please if possible.
Best wishes.
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: stirling on November 29, 2011, 09:10:25 AM
NEVER put an LED accross 5Vdc without a current limiting resistor (unless that 5Vdc is a PWM signal carefully designed to match the specs of the LED). You stand a very good chance of either blowing the LED or the output stage of the device supplying the 5V depending on it's current sourcing capabilities.

Ian
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: santosh on December 30, 2012, 03:46:15 AM
hi every body

actually i am also installing Xulifeng USB board on mach 3. i have one problem .
 
can anybody tell me in that board for input we have to take external 5v or internal provided.

and another one is that for that board which pin number for charge pump?
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: santosh on December 30, 2012, 03:58:51 AM
another one is that when i pressed emergency stop button then mach3  shows me urgency stop alarm instead of e stop requested. and when i use limit switch that time it shows me limit stop instead of limit switch triggered.
is there any option to change alarm script in mach3?
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: excusme2004 on June 16, 2013, 03:34:45 PM
This card works very well, but there is an important missing .. :/

outputs, this card is not running as fast as M10 and M11 or M10P1 - M11P1

  What do you think?
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Ramzy on September 02, 2013, 03:07:20 PM
The Xulifeng 4 axis board integrates very well with mach3. I have had no trouble configuring the system even though I am a newcomer to CNC. All homing and limit devices are working no problem here as there is plenty of opto-isolated IO. Motors tuned and moving the prescribed distances on all axis. I now have to get to grips with gcode programming. I have bought several items from this supplier as I have never been let down. (One does have to be careful on Ebay). I have also bought 4 off stepper drive modules 2M542 4.2 A, Stepper motor mounting blocks, plumb couplings etc.. I am in the process of purchasing ebay ( item 300956732417). This is a CNC wireless pendant for Mach3. Just plug in the wireless stick...configure an go. Will save a lot of potential pain.  If anyone is interested the Ebay shop is BestChoose 702 and the seller: onlyforever702 (16234).  The chap I deal with is Kevin, and you will find that he is a very good communicator. You may get more details and information by asking a question (Through the Ebay System)  You may tell him that Ramzyelk recommended him, however, I am sure you will get seamless service from him if you did not mention me at all. I am presenting the information resulting from my own experiences an I would urge every individual to make their own analysis. Ramzy
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: garyhlucas on September 02, 2013, 04:11:14 PM
I believe this is the xulifeng board that I am currently using. The only problem I had was the issue with axis jog locking up with the shift key, and it turned out the ESS board has the same issue. I bought the ESS board and a breakout card to replace this one, which has worked just fine. If you can wait a bit I'll give you a great "student" discount on it. It has never glitched even once, other than the shift key jog issue.
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: teonigil on September 06, 2013, 02:49:13 AM
The Mach3 USB Motion Card works fine for me except one big issue when used my probe to digitize a point cloud with Mach3.
I use the Mach3 Digitize Wizard and have the probe connected to input 15 and configured properly
(Probe-Enabled , Port# 1, pin # 15, Active Low - enabled)
The digitizing code runs perfectly and the probe generates a stop (for G31 command) but the data is not being written to the designated txt file I specify in the beginning of the code (M40 command).

I tried to run the probe with the center finding routine (blue screen) and it worked OK.
I also ran the digitizing wizard from another computer with different OS and had the same issue with the empty file.

Scott from Mach support believes the issue is with the card or card's driver plugIn FOR mACH3 (UsbMove.dll ver2.0.1.9 by Xulifeng).

Probe digitizing is crucial for my operation and I was hoping for your advice.
Any ideas?
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on September 06, 2013, 03:16:48 AM
There are a number of Mach3 functions which the Xulifeng board does not yet support and this may just be one of them.  :(

Perhaps your best bet would be to contact the manufacturers directly - if they have had enough requests they may update their plugin software accordingly (Automation Technology may be a good place to start http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/about-us).

Tweakie.
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: teonigil on September 06, 2013, 03:33:00 AM
Thanks Tweakie.

Is there a known issue with the card's support for G31 specifically?
If so, then I know I should stop looking for a solution until it's fixed on the plugin level but I'm bringing this up here just in case it's an isolated issue others do not have and in that case it might be a config problem on my end or a faulty card.

Just to give more info on the issue, the txt file is opened and locked by the program and released when it's done but stays empty. It's either no data is sent to Mach3 or something else.
Not sure which part of the data transfer is done by the card and which by Mach3.
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: teonigil on September 06, 2013, 10:55:19 AM
I'd like to test the digitizing process with the Mach3 plugin that used to be available for download from the Artsoft website.
It appears it has been removed. Can someone send a link for that file please?
It would be interesting to see if the same problem occurs through the plugin as well.
Title: Re: USB Breakout board for Mach3
Post by: teonigil on September 06, 2013, 11:27:36 AM
It is called "Mach3 Digitizing Plugin" and the installation file name is  Probing.m3p