Machsupport Forum

G-Code, CAD, and CAM => LazyCam (Beta) => Topic started by: wvancura on December 03, 2006, 04:53:15 PM

Title: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: wvancura on December 03, 2006, 04:53:15 PM
Hi,
The new lazy cam is really badly broken. I have a file with 5 layers, and it merged all five layers into one (no matter what I tried to tell Autoclean to do or not do). Seems that Autoclean is permanently ON. Then it named 3 of the 5 layers with the same name.

Please let us control the layering. I use them to control DOC and Option select. The least you can do is ask if it is OK to tamper with the layers.

The top layer is usually my reference layer (non cutting) and I always turn it off. It now has everything stored in it. Bummer.

The three other layers weren't supposed to be empty, but they are now. All of the cuts will need to be sorted out again. (one of the cuts is very small and will be hard to select it to move it)

Up until now the dimension layer had been ignored, now it is proudly presented in the list even though it was empty in the first place.

Most interesting, the optimized routing is not following a chain as a single cut. It broke all of the chains, and cuts most segments (primitives) separately. It almost seems to be maximizing the movement of the tool without cutting.

Just clicked on "relayer" and it did some intersting sorting... got most of the outsides right, but grouped the insides somewhat randomly. It looks to be a better place to start my end of the sorting, I guess. (I want my layers back)

Origin is not automatically minimized.

Whatever you do, Do not press the "Optimise" button! It will erase all of your sorting work and leave you with an empty screen. Mega bummer! I get to start ALL over again.

Lazy cam needs to be able to pull in a G Code file from the disk. So I can do frequent saves while trying to get it right.

Note the three g code submissions; the first ....B file is from the old LC program (took only a minute to set up correctly) and the ....X2 file is from the new LC program. The second took much longer to get to this point and it is almost useless, because I can't find a way to make a chain as one uninterrupted cut, nor am I sure I have all of the layers sorted properly. The third is the DXF source.

The new program is now click intensive, far too many clicks to do a single task. Perhaps the list boxes should pop up open.  The data table was nice for this reason.

Guys, you were doing so good! What happened?

Just found multi select... nice.
"Set Layer Depth" command crashes the program. Please disable it or fix it, and the others that crash.
Enough complaining for now. Switching back to an older version.
Thanks.
Bill
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: ART on December 03, 2006, 09:19:58 PM
Hi Bill:

Hi,
The new lazy cam is really badly broken.

>> Actually, its getting rave reviews from most. It depends alot on what the drawing is and what you expect.


I have a file with 5 layers, and it merged all five layers into one (no matter what I tried to tell Autoclean to do or not do). Seems that Autoclean is permanently ON. Then it named 3 of the 5 layers with the same name.

>> Yes, that does seem broken, if uncleaned, it should retain its layer information, we'll look into that..


Please let us control the layering. I use them to control DOC and Option select. The least you can do is ask if it is OK to tamper with the layers.

>>  We'll give a certain amount, but only as it pertains to what we're doing to clean it up. Lazycam is not a CAM program, its meant for a specific purpose, if a users files
generally cannot be used, then he needs a real CAM program, Lazycam is intended to make three of 4 clicks import a DXF, and give the variety of DXF's out there, its
not a simple thing, the complex users will ineveitably get pissed at times. :)

The top layer is usually my reference layer (non cutting) and I always turn it off. It now has everything stored in it. Bummer.
The three other layers weren't supposed to be empty, but they are now. All of the cuts will need to be sorted out again. (one of the cuts is very small and will be hard to select it to move it)
Up until now the dimension layer had been ignored, now it is proudly presented in the list even though it was empty in the first place.

  >> This one does seem a bug, we'll see what can be done about loading it in untouched.. (But cleaning it may remove the layer information again...

Most interesting, the optimized routing is not following a chain as a single cut. It broke all of the chains, and cuts most segments (primitives) separately. It almost seems to be maximizing the movement of the tool without cutting.

>> Interestinggly, it cleans here and looks good. Optimises just fine. But untouched , it is a mess, and all on one layer.. that can be fixed I think..

Just clicked on "relayer" and it did some intersting sorting... got most of the outsides right, but grouped the insides somewhat randomly. It looks to be a better place to start my end of the sorting, I guess. (I want my layers back)

Origin is not automatically minimized.

>>Nope, if you want it minimized, youd have to tell it to do so..

Whatever you do, Do not press the "Optimise" button! It will erase all of your sorting work and leave you with an empty screen. Mega bummer! I get to start ALL over again.

Lazy cam needs to be able to pull in a G Code file from the disk. So I can do frequent saves while trying to get it right.

>>Not going to happen. Its a importer, not a Gcode interpreter...

Note the three g code submissions; the first ....B file is from the old LC program (took only a minute to set up correctly) and the ....X2 file is from the new LC program. The second took much longer to get to this point and it is almost useless, because I can't find a way to make a chain as one uninterrupted cut, nor am I sure I have all of the layers sorted properly. The third is the DXF source.

The new program is now click intensive, far too many clicks to do a single task. Perhaps the list boxes should pop up open.  The data table was nice for this reason.

Guys, you were doing so good! What happened?

Just found multi select... nice.
"Set Layer Depth" command crashes the program. Please disable it or fix it, and the others that crash.
Enough complaining for now. Switching back to an older version.

  >> I suggest you keep that old version, the newer versions may never follow your work flow, you may be better off getting sheetcam, or mastercam, or dolphin cam..etc..
       We really are aiming at simplicity, whiel you have pointed out a layering bug here, the rest looks like its either related to that bug, or that your workflow on DXF's will
       not match LCam for a bit.  Most dont even begin to understand the complexity of whats being done.. for those I suggest real CAM programs.. :-)

Art

 
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: ART on December 03, 2006, 10:07:08 PM
All that having been said, redownload LCam from the downloads page, not mach3, just lcam. It will now load your file untouched, and nothign shoudl disappear or crash..

Art
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: wvancura on December 04, 2006, 12:30:57 AM
Art,
I downloaded the file you suggested. It says it is the same version.
The Optimise Drawing check box cannot be unchecked.
If I do not check the box "Relayer" and I press either Optimise or Autoclean, I get a blank work screen (scary).
If I then check the "Relayer" option, the two buttons do work (and the lost image recovers too), and they do seem to produce reasonable clean chaining results. If I do autoclean once, it finds 4 of the five outside edges (squeezes 5 layers down to 4 layers), If I click a second time, it finds all 5 (and squeezes out another layer).

I have three distinct DOC that I am trying to use, and a fourth for outside cut layer. The Autoclean only creates three DOC layers and I loose the fourth. I can, of course, create a new layer and sort out the critical items, but I believe I shouldn't have to. It would be nice to eliminate the layer that I use to keep track of the outside path. If the program can now find and separate them reliably, that will save time.

Obviously, the program cannot tell that I want each layer to translate to a specific DOC, but I suspect it should be wary of merging layers, because there is usually a good reason for using multiple layers.

I am at a loss as to who your target average EasyCam user is. The files I am trying to convert to G Code are basically flat AutoCAD 2.5D drawings. as far as I can tell, they are nothing fancy. I convert all the lines to actual tool paths in AutoCAD (a somewhat painful process). I haven't used any complex shapes, and nothing 3 dimensional, where X, Y, & Z are all changing at once. The image I sent you was of some simple clock parts. The parts have through holes, milled surfaces (two different depths), and outside cuts (thus 4 layers).

How come there is an option to "Load current Mach 3 file" if it isn't supposed to interpret G Code? It gives an error whenever I try it, so maybe you need to remove the option from the menu.

How do I toggle the climb mill mode ON and OFF for a given layer? I am finding that different materials like different cutting modes

I just tried a tool change and noticed that it does put in the M6 code but no tool number. Is that the way it is supposed to be?

Thanks.
Bill
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: ART on December 04, 2006, 08:10:15 AM
Hi Bill:

   >>I downloaded the file you suggested. It says it is the same version.

  Yes, I dont update version numbers when I do the quick fixes, that will get updated soon.

  >>The Optimise Drawing check box cannot be unchecked.

  Hmm, yup, just fixed that for next verison. LCAm does have some strange ones in it due to the rewrite recently to remove all the layer dialogs..

 >> If I do not check the box "Relayer" and I press either Optimise or Autoclean, I get a blank work screen (scary).

  Yup, another bug, Ill fix that up this morning..

 >> If I then check the "Relayer" option, the two buttons do work (and the lost image recovers too), and they do seem to produce reasonable clean chaining results. If I do autoclean once, it finds 4 of the five outside edges (squeezes 5 layers down to 4 layers), If I click a second time, it finds all 5 (and squeezes out another layer).

  It is a kind of AI algorithm, so it can, but usually doesnt, squeeze downwards in terms of Layers and chains. It seeks minimums that are reasonable.

>>   but I suspect it should be wary of merging layers, because there is usually a good reason for using multiple layers.

  Youd think , wouldnt ya. But its not the case. The more DXF's we get, the more bad dxfs we see. That assumption may work for you, but for most, the number of layers, or their use has little to do with original intent.

>>I am at a loss as to who your target average EasyCam user is. The files I am trying to convert to G Code are basically flat AutoCAD 2.5D drawings. as far as I can tell, they are nothing fancy. I convert all the lines to actual tool paths in AutoCAD (a somewhat painful process). I haven't used any complex shapes, and nothing 3 dimensional, where X, Y, & Z are all changing at once. The image I sent you was of some simple clock parts. The parts have through holes, milled surfaces (two different depths), and outside cuts (thus 4 layers).

   You should be using CAM. The average LCam user has profiles he wants done, he wants to import the DXF, because he has no idea how to use CAM, and he isnt separating into layers (that he knows of). I underatsnd this can be frustrating for you, but untill the layers dialog was removed, LCam was not very usefull to many people, since the recent changes, it is being hailed in letters from all over as the solution for those poeple that needed it. In fact we havent seen that kind of responce for LCAm before. OEM inquiries and variosu delaers want it separated as a chargable program. It amazing the responce lately. Unfortunatley, you fall on the other side, you use multiple layers, have inside and outside contopurs and as as areas you want milled. This puts you squarely in the CAM camp, the exact peopel who shouldnt be using LCam. WE will be trying to make it easier for you as well, but the target remains the 80% of users who have no clue what a layer is, or what order entities are in. Even your drawing is a horrible example of an import problem for a DXF importer. Look what it looks like as you import it. All the lines and arcs' are reversed to one another, chains do not connect.. yet, LCam does a pretty good job of cleaning it up. Its your requirement for separate layers, and the fact you want it all on one drawing thats killing you. ( I will try to make that easier though..)

  Im not busting your balls here, Im just pointing out we had a partiucular target audience with LCAm, and if you ever used the old DXF import dialog, youd know how far ahead you are with LCAm vs the old importer. To say this is complex is an understatement, look at your original drawing uncleaned, imagine trying to clean it.. Thats what most peopel faced , at least 80% have no idea what is in the DXF< they have hundreds of clip arts and such that they need toi import, they are now able to do so with an amazing level of success, that was the target audience.. It was inevitable that people like your self who know a bit mnore get frustrated with it, hence the name .. LazyCam, your doing so much work here that Lazyness doesnt enter into it, you shoudl be using CAM, you just havent made that jump yet..

  Loading a current MAch3 file works here, or did at last test, but it isnt importing GCode, its importing Mach3's movement table, (which is a bit different from Gcode..). Ill run some tests and see where that screwed up as well.

  Climb Mill is selected on a perchain basis by double clicking the leadin and selecting Climb for that chain. We're still firming up that interface. (Hugely complex when importing from a DXF. The tool number shoudl have been put out to match the tool you enetered for that layer. We'll check that as well..

Thanks
Art




Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: ART on December 04, 2006, 09:24:59 AM
Hi :

 Anew LazyCam is online that will load the current file from Mach3, and the optimise button may be unchecked. :)

Art
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: wvancura on December 04, 2006, 11:50:35 AM
Art,
I became a user of Mach3 just before you switched over to LazyCAM and was temporarily frustrated by having to learn a new method. What I liked about Mach3's DXF to G Code converters was their ability to sort out the chains into rational cuts by layer. As you may be aware, AutoCAD is a very snobby program and it doesn't care about the hoops I/you have to jump through to use the drawings for manufacturing. They are for printing only (and lousy at that), and nothing is ever optimized. LazyCam took some that pain away by sorting out the direction of the line/arc strokes. I liked the ability to select DOC, climb, inside, outside, and other cutting modes by layer because it meant saving time, lots of time.

Most of the CAM based modules, that I have seen, seemed to be chain only oriented. If I must switch to a CAM based converter to get the layer control I need, are there any budget conscious modules that you can reccommend that are compatible with Mach3 controller?

Thanks.
Bill
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: Chip on December 04, 2006, 02:27:12 PM
Hi, Art & Brian

Using LazyCam Ver 2.0.020 Mid day today , Nice Job what a Fast Re-D-O-O,  It seam's Less Confusing and More Stable..

Thanks for fixing the G41/G42 issue's..

I have Att. Test File0002.DXF, I've used it for a long time to est with.

When loading this file I find the following Issue's,

1. Auto Optimize is set to Optimize, Doesn't Optimize the first layer 0, Its Just a Square..

>> Redrew the square its fine now (Auto Optimize doesn't work in auto, did before till last several versions)

>> Auto Optimize un-checked imports fine Now, Thanks ! ! !

Auto Clean & Optimize Buttons, Leave Layers 0 and 1, Removes all remaining layers 3, 4, 5..

>> Auto Clean dosent change drawing as above now this is Good.<<

>>Optimize Buttons, Leave Layers 0 and 1, Removes all remaining layers 3, 4, 5. ? <<

Earlier Ver. of New LC, worked fine all 5 layers.

2. Layer 4 has Dot's only, 5 dot's, If Default startup is set to remove Dot's, It leaves 2 out of the 5.

>> All Dots still not removed, can remove them manually OK, Just pointing out. <<.

Items 1 and 2 would really help out, 3 and 4 just info.

>> Items 3,4 the same <<

3. If Mach & LC resides in other than Mach3 Folder, like Mach3R2.0.010.

The Gcode post's In Automatic to (Mach3R2.0.010\ gcodetest55Dotpolyline.tap), rather than Mach3R2.0.010\gcode\test55Dotpolyline.tap.

After first  "Auto-Post", LC error's (File Creation "Error" OK), Need's a back-slash gcode "\" test55Dotpolyline.tap.

This has been posted by several folk's, other than Me..

4. Also if  Mach3 Resides in (Mach3 Folder) and (Automatic Generate File Name is Un-Checked), File is posted correct, But doesn't Auto-Up-Load to Mach3.

Please give it a Look.

>> Thanks Again ,Chip

Thanks, Chip.
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: ger21 on December 04, 2006, 03:31:05 PM
Bill, here's a useful tip if your using AutoCAD and need to export .dxf's, ALWAYS use .v12. Pretty much every program that reads .dxf's will read V12 from AutoCAD. But I'm using AutoCAD 2002 and I couldn't open your .dxf.
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: wvancura on December 04, 2006, 05:15:14 PM
If you are interested, here is the file in R12. Not much to look at.

Thanks.
Bill
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: Chip on December 04, 2006, 11:02:28 PM
Hi, Art

The last 2 ver of LC fixed the most important items for me, Thanks.

Now theres only items of less importance for me anyway.

Just trying to report items that I haxe found on more than one computer and don't function as implied

Its a dirty job, thats why we spend so-much time helping others where we can.

Ill edit my previous post to reflect what is fixed or now usable for me.

Thanks Again, Chip


Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: Manjeet on December 26, 2006, 09:29:58 AM
Hi All,

I have just downloaded Lazycam. while try to import any dxf file I get the following error message.

MachManip MFC Application has encountered a
problem and needs to close.  We are sorry for the
inconvenience.

Error Sighnature

AppName: lazycam.exe    AppVer: 1.0.0.1    ModName: lazycam.exe
ModVer: 1.0.0.1    Offset: 001eb2

Please help

Manjeet
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: AGOMAGO on January 05, 2007, 11:14:06 AM
The same happen to me
what's the problem???
I need help.
Thanks Ago


Hi All,

I have just downloaded Lazycam. while try to import any dxf file I get the following error message.

MachManip MFC Application has encountered a
problem and needs to close.  We are sorry for the
inconvenience.

Error Sighnature

AppName: lazycam.exe    AppVer: 1.0.0.1    ModName: lazycam.exe
ModVer: 1.0.0.1    Offset: 001eb2

Please help

Manjeet
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: Brian Barker on January 06, 2007, 06:35:49 PM
That is odd...  I will look and see how you could get that problem.

What are you running for computers?
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: AGOMAGO on January 09, 2007, 10:14:27 AM
 :D
Now I download new Lcam and it works..
Thank you Ago ;)
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: alex718 on January 11, 2007, 02:04:42 PM
I have been posting in "G-Code, CAD, and CAM discussions" that I was having problems loading dxf files created in CorelDraw. I was wondering if you knew of any fixes for this problem ? The problem is the same when I use Coreldraw ver 7 and the newest X3 version. The DXF file that is created will import into Turbocad just fine but not Lazycam.

Thanks for any help
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: Chip on January 11, 2007, 02:51:13 PM
Hi, Alex

Can you export your file from Turbocad as DXF, Dose it then work in LazyCam ?

Have try-ed Corel myself, with problems also.

Chip
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: alex718 on January 11, 2007, 06:54:42 PM
I created a file in Turbocad and it does not load either. It get an error message that there are no entities found. Here is the file from Turbo attached.

Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: wvancura on January 11, 2007, 09:06:29 PM
The file is actually only text, at least that is all I found. Text cannot be directly converted to a cut. You need to convert it to lines and curves. If Turbocad won't do this then you will need other programs to do it. 

Find the program DeskEngrave or Stick Font, on the internet, to do this on the cheap. They are a little crude, but free. You can import these generated text files into Turbocad for modification or you can import them directly into LazyCam.

Bill
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: Chip on January 13, 2007, 11:41:47 PM
Hi, Alex

See below, loaded it in turbocad , Exploded it then Group it under Format, resaved it as DXF

Loaded & posted with LazyCam.

Hope this helps, Chip
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: alex718 on January 14, 2007, 01:08:48 PM
Thanks, I have to try to figure out what I am doing wrong.
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: Brian Barker on January 14, 2007, 09:36:15 PM
There is not much that we can do about the DXF's that don't load :( We have an OCX that we are running... therefor we can't do much.
Title: Re: New LazyCam has lots of problems
Post by: sshneider on January 14, 2007, 10:12:06 PM
One of the reasons that DXF won't load has to do with Scaling/Size issues. 

I noticed this after using a .jpg to .dxf converting program.    The conversion/trace went great but it would not load in LCAM.  I opened up the .dxf in Autocad and discovered that somehow in the conversion, PIXELS were misinterpreted for units (in my case inches) and my drawing was like 9500 Inches tall.

This made LCAM very grumpy until I used ACAD to rescale the drawing to the size I really wanted it to be.  The LCAM welcomed with open arms

CAD programs usually have so many options/variables associated with units and scale that I think it's easy to get confused.  Try scaling things down and see if that helps.

Also, Blocks in CAD programs will not be seen in LCAM.  Explode all your blocks before you open in LCAM.

HTH,

Sid