Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: method13 on December 02, 2006, 02:33:39 PM

Title: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 02, 2006, 02:33:39 PM
Hi,
Can anyone help me! My machine is loosing its location everytime I run a cutter path. This is getting ridiculous ???  I have a K2 cnc router kt2514. I am running Mach2 and am in the process of switching over to Mach3 but I am having problems with it running smoothly, so for now I am running Mach2.  I am using a P4 2gig with 1 gig of ram for the controller PC, I have 276oz steppers direct drive with couplings and gecko 201 stepper drivers.

My machine screws up and then starts to run again out of location, I have played with the velocity and the acceleration, I was wondering if there could be something wrong with the machine electrically. The stepper controller box gets very very hot so I added fans to cool it. The motors arn't getting hot, and I used WD-40 for the lube on the leadscrews, and when the machine isn't on I can move all three axis with ease by rotating the leadscrew by hand. I have plastic antivibration nuts on all three axis and couplings that I made sure that the fit is good and not binding.

These are my questions:
Can anyone go through the voltages on my stepper drivers to see if there a problem with too much power or something like that?
Should I use grease instead of WD-40 for lubrication? Does anyone have any suggestions?
Any other Ideas that could be the problem I will check them all, I need to get this problem fixed!
I will be checking for posts all day.
Thanks,
Greg.
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Hood on December 02, 2006, 05:41:09 PM
Have you got enhanced pulse enabled? I know you have messed with the motor tuning but just tune it slow and try out and see if it loses steps, if not then turn up the velocity a bit and try again. Is the current resistor on the Geckos correct for your motors?
Hood
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Chip on December 03, 2006, 12:06:15 AM
Hi, Greg

If your using Backlash, CV Mode needs to be off, set to Exact Stop Mode.

Are all axises losing steps.

Thanks Chip
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Brian Barker on December 03, 2006, 12:10:37 PM
Tell me if what they told you fixes it. If not E-mail me and i will try to help you
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 03, 2006, 12:44:55 PM
Hi,
Thanks for the replies!

-Enhanced pulsing is not on
-Constant Velocity is on
-Can't find CV mode, I am using Mach2

Here are a few more questions I have that might be an issue:

-In BIOS my com port 1 is set to EPP, is that right? There is two other settings ECP and Bi-directional.
-In Mach 2 com port 1 baud rate is at 9600, should that be set higher? my wire is quite short.
-When I was reading the manual for the stepper driver they were talking about a 5 amp 250 vac  fast acting fuse, my machine keeps blowing them, the fuse is located at the power supply, I am using a 6.3 amp fuse and it hasn't blown yet.  The guys from k2 said it wasn't a problem.  What do you think?

Thanks Brian, I will keep in touch with you, The problem is intermitten, Yesterday I ran two programs one to ruff and semi-ruff then on the third program to semi finish it screwed up and lost location and I ran the program about 4 or 5 times and it kept screwing up. Then it worked on the 6th time, then my finishing program ran fine but I wasn't running it at the feed that I wanted to, because of fear that it would screw up.  I found if I run it fast it screws up more.  This is what it does on a constant basis no specific axis they all screw up at different times. The only thing that I noticed is that all axis freeze up and once it finishes getting to the point it starts back up again out of location.  It depends on how much damage being out of location does decides if my part is scrap.

Thanks guys,
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Hood on December 03, 2006, 02:02:34 PM
Try it with enhanced pulse enabled, there are a lot of benefits to enabling it and from what I understand very few if any against.
 CV is constant velocity so have a look and see if Backlash compensation is turned on, if it is turn it off and see if it helps. Backlash comp can cause problems with some setups, especially stepper setups. The fuse question cant really be answered without knowing what power your steppers etc require but if the K2 guys say its OK at what you have I am sure it must be.
Hood
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Brian Barker on December 03, 2006, 06:27:10 PM
What is the Accel and Max Vel for each axis?
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 03, 2006, 11:59:25 PM
Hi,
I will give it a try with enhanced pulse enabled, CV is constant velocity is on, but I can't find Backlash compensation so I'm not sure if it's turned on, I am using Mach2 do you know where to find it.  You want me to run it with exact stop on? I will run the machine tomorrow and will post and tell you what happened.

Brian, My Accel and Vel for my machine are the following:
          Accel          Vel
X axis   7.2225      1.8675
Y axis   7.74         1.838
Z axis   7.47         1.944

What do these numbers mean to you?
Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Hood on December 04, 2006, 02:21:23 AM
Backlash and CV/Exact stop modes are found under Config tab then down to state. If you do have Backlash enabled then I would disable it first and try using CV. If you put it in Exact Stop mode it mayl seem very jerky especially if you are doing code with a lot of very small moves. You can also change to Exact Stop mode by having a G61 in your code, to change to CV you have G64
Do you have ballscrews in this router, if yes then really you shouldnt need backlash comp.
 I also suggest you try one thing at a time so that  you find out what your problem has been, then if it happens again you will know right away ;)
 Hood
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: cjmerlin on December 04, 2006, 12:04:23 PM
Hi, I noticed in the above pic you are using Gecko drivers, Are the drivers mounted on heatsinks with heat transfer paste.
The drivers should not be very hot if your steppers are not. There is something wrong there. Find out what amps per phase the steppers are and check the limit resistors for the geckos.

Regards
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Chaoticone on December 04, 2006, 12:22:47 PM
I agree, I got my drives hot once, I forgot the fan, and it went insane. Cooled them off, problem solved. I say this hesitantly because you have defiantly been talking to some of the gurus allready. I'm not so sure you aren't dealing with a noise issue. You certainly would not be the first. Can you post some more pics. of your cabinet and wiring? Even on the machine.
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Hood on December 04, 2006, 03:27:53 PM
I may have misread the first post but I think when he said things were hot he was meaning the complete control box rather than the Geckos, this would be expected if no fan was present and a large transformer was in such an enclosed space. The right thing was done putting a fan in, but care should be taken if its in a dusty environment, filters might be in order ;)
Hood
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 04, 2006, 03:53:24 PM
Hi,
This is the link to some  pictures of  my controller box:
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=1396.0

I have posted about this issue before, I would change things and they would seem to get better then after awhile it would mess up again and loose steps.

What do you mean "noise"?  I have heard that having too many things plugged into the same outlet/powerbar can cause problems, is that true?

Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Chaoticone on December 04, 2006, 04:11:28 PM
Yes, that is true.  I'm no expert so I will try to explain the best I can. Imagine you are at a water park with all of the half pipe slides that cross each other, run parallel at times, over, under. One has a dedicated pool of yellow water, the other has a pool of blue water. With all of the traffic and splashing eventually they would both end up with green water. Now, shielded cable, proper arrangement and layout would equal putting the other half of the pipe on top, sealing them off from one another. Yellow stays yellow and blue stays blue now. Different power sources, frequencies,AC, DC they are all different color slides. I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 04, 2006, 09:17:39 PM
Hi,
When I bought the machine the whole box was so hot I wasn't able to touch it, I'm not sure where the heat came from but I suspect that it came from the big round thing in the box not the drivers but I could be wrong. (sorry I'm not sure of the name of all the parts yet)  I added the fans and the box is very cool, but your were talking about dust I don't have filters so I am getting alitte bit of dust in the box, mostly wood dust.

What did you think of the pictures of the wiring for my machine? Does any thing look out of order?
How do you shield the wires? or what is a shielded cable?

I have my power cord for my router with my z axis wire and then my y axis comes together as well, my x axis is separate and I have had the machine mess up in that axis too???

Is the current resistor on the Geckos correct? Can you see it in the pic, I think Hood said it was the right one.

In Windows BIOS my com port 1 is set to EPP, is that right? There is two other settings ECP and Bi-directional.

My baud rate is at 9600, should that be set higher?

I have leadscrews with .1 pitch also with plastic anti-vibration nut just so you know, you asked earlier.

The Gecko drivers  are not mounted on heatsinks or with heat transfer paste, just mounted to aluminum plates.

How do I find out what amps per phase for the steppers? and the limit resistors for the geckos?

It seems like the whole machine screws up all axis freeze up and the motors moan and then they release and the machine is out of location in at least two axis depends on what type of program I'm running.

I know that's alot of questions and statements please spend your time and answer them I would really appreciate it.
Thanks for your time,
Greg



Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Hood on December 05, 2006, 02:23:00 AM
Hi,
When I bought the machine the whole box was so hot I wasn't able to touch it, I'm not sure where the heat came from but I suspect that it came from the big round thing in the box not the drivers but I could be wrong. (sorry I'm not sure of the name of all the parts yet)  I added the fans and the box is very cool, but your were talking about dust I don't have filters so I am getting alitte bit of dust in the box, mostly wood dust.

The round thing is the transformer, its what is called a toroidal transformer. Transformers produce a lot of heat and it is the most likely source of your heat. Wood dust wont harm in small quantities but let it build up and it will start to insulate things and hold the heat into the components inside the box so filters or a regular blast with air to clean is in order

What did you think of the pictures of the wiring for my machine? Does any thing look out of order?
How do you shield the wires? or what is a shielded cable?
Hard to tell from the pic but it does look OK. Shileding is like a metal braid that surrounds all the wires inside a cable, it can also be a foil wrap. The wires that should really be shielded are limits wire, motor wires and possibly step direction wires. The shielding should really only be connected to ground at one end, usually the control box end.

I have my power cord for my router with my z axis wire and then my y axis comes together as well, my x axis is separate and I have had the machine mess up in that axis too???
I dont think noise is your problem really but thats just my gut feeling.
Is the current resistor on the Geckos correct? Can you see it in the pic, I think Hood said it was the right one.

Need to know the motors Amps before I can say.

In Windows BIOS my com port 1 is set to EPP, is that right? There is two other settings ECP and Bi-directional.
Should be OK but if you feel the need no harm in trying a different setting ;)

My baud rate is at 9600, should that be set higher?
Nope, should be ok at that

I have leadscrews with .1 pitch also with plastic anti-vibration nut just so you know, you asked earlier.

The Gecko drivers  are not mounted on heatsinks or with heat transfer paste, just mounted to aluminum plates.
Should be OK, the Alu will act as a heat sink and unless you are running full current (your not BTW) the integrated heatsinks in the geckos will do a decent job.

How do I find out what amps per phase for the steppers? and the limit resistors for the geckos?
You will need to either find a plate on the motors, or ask the builders what the motor specs are. The resistors are colour coded, once you find out the Amps you can then check the resistor is correct, I suspect it will be .

It seems like the whole machine screws up all axis freeze up and the motors moan and then they release and the machine is out of location in at least two axis depends on what type of program I'm running.

Sounds like typical steppers when they loose steps by being pushed too far.

I know that's alot of questions and statements please spend your time and answer them I would really appreciate it.
Thanks for your time,
Greg
I have tried ;)

My turn for the questions ;)
Have you got Enhanced pulse enabled? if not please do it.
 Also have you turned off Backlash comp if it wass turned on?

Hood




Quote
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 05, 2006, 11:02:29 AM
Hi,
Enhanced pluse was not enabled, CV is on and backlash comp is turned to off.  I ran a simple program last night it was plunging a 1/2 endmill, instead of running a can cycle I wrote it in g-code. There was alot of switching from G0 to G1 in it. It losts it's location 3 times in that program all in the z this time. I had to slow the feeds down and take out the G0 to get it to work. I was using M98 with a sub program and I would repeat to get the desired amount of holes.  For that program I had Enhanced pulse enabled.  I don't think the cables are shielded. I have to go talk to you tonight.
Thanks for your time.
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: cjmerlin on December 05, 2006, 12:39:00 PM
Hi,  Hood is right. Although a power supply of 75v would be better, It seems by your explanation in the email this will not sort your problem immediately. You said that when the axis miss steps the steppers moan.

Are you saying that when the problem occurs, all the axises stop at the same time (for how long) and then start working again normally? This is the big question because if that is so we can eliminate some of the things it might be.

Your port and baud settings are OK. As are the current resistors. The mounting of the Gecko units should be OK for steppers under 3amps although heat transfer paste between the Gecko unit and the mounting would be better in the long term if you are using the machine all day every day. But don't worry about this for now.

Shielded cable has the earth/ground wire on the outside of all the other wires made like a lattice (similar to TV aerial cable or audio cable)
It acts like a Faraday cage and keeps stray signals from getting in or out of the cable long it's length. All of your signal wires should be shielded ( wires to the computer and the step and direction on the gecko's)

I hope I've answered most of you questions but to get back to the problem I need a better explanation of this moan from the steppers or perhaps a video of this problem happening.

Does the moan sound like a low vigorous hum?

Regards
John
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 05, 2006, 02:56:41 PM
Hi John,
I will make a video of the problem and have it posted tonight.

The moan is not loud but just loud enough to get your attention. I would say it happens for a few seconds. For example I will be contouring something and its moving in the X+ direction, it will lock up and the numbers on the screen will keep moving, and until it switches directions and goes in the X- direction. Then it will start moving again and will be out of location what ever the distance it was from the location it locked up at to the location it switched directions. Like I said before it will freeze in all axis, when it freezes in the X the Z doesn't keep going up and down, it stops too. If I am cutting with all three axis contouring on a 45 they all stop moving and the numbers keep going on the screen. It doesn't happen too often when cutting with all three.

This will happen on any axis at any given time, I was running a make shift drilling program and it messed up there to, so not only when I'm contouring. Which is what I do most of the time.

Back to the moan noise, its not very loud and it doesn't sound like it has a load on it, caused from binding. I'll get it on video so you can see it.

I am going to test the voltage and let you know.

Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: cjmerlin on December 05, 2006, 06:35:42 PM
Hi, The numbers on Mach will still run because you don't have a closed loop system and Mach doesn't know there is a problem. Lets assume that the pulses coming from Mach are reaching the drivers OK. If you could test for this it would eliminate one possibility.

I believe your problem could be one of these things...

1) If all the drivers have a common enable signal (terminal 7 on Gecko's) then an intermittant on/off signal on this will mess things up as you have described.

2) The power supply to the gecko's could have a fault, a dodgy wire or perhaps the rectifier is on the verge of failing.
I have never had one with an intermittant fault. they usually fail totally but you said the box got very hot and this is one of the components that would get hot (maybe the case it is mounted on is not dissipating the heat.

With this in mind could you substitute the power supply, like using a 24v battery charger or batteries  just to test.

Look forward to the video.

Kind Regards
John
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 05, 2006, 11:01:01 PM
Hi,
This is not a video of the machine freezing up while contouring, it's of me manual jogging the machine in the Z axis.  I just finished a program and was bringing the machine over for me to change tools, and I moved it up in the Z and it locked up. This is not the same as when it locks up while contouring, this one made a whole lot more noise and sounds like it binding or under some sort of load, while contouring it doesn't.

Notice when I take the camera over to the computer to show the feeds and I have it at 240% is because in the program my default feed rate was 50 ipm but I wanted to run it how I feel it should run and not baby it because it screws up, besides that's why I am making the video in the first place.  ;)     I forgot that half way through the program that there is a feed rate so it slowed down so I just cranked the override to 240% to run it how I want.  I don't normally do that I usually have the feed I want in the program and might adjust 10-20%.

I will make another video to catch it messing up while contouring, figure when I want it to mess up it wont :P

This is the link to the video:

http://s117.photobucket.com/albums/o50/greg_boo/?action=view&current=LockupintheZaxis.flv

Thanks
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: chad on December 06, 2006, 03:59:47 AM
A couple of things. First usually you want to start out high in the g code and then slow down the feed, not crank it up. The override will try to makes things faster than your motor tuning.

Second your acceleration and velocity sounds too fast back them down 25% and try that for a while.
also just for fun in the step and dir pulse width try setting it to 5ms.

It sounds to me like you are just trying to run things right on the edge. These are steppers not servos, steppers loose power the faster they go.


Chad

 
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: cjmerlin on December 06, 2006, 06:29:09 AM
Hi, The video say's it all. The sound is the stepper not keeping up with the amount of steps being sent from Mach. If you go to Motor tuning and select the drive, Let's say Z and decrease the Accel value then click on save settings. This will allow the pulses to ramp up from a slow start to the feed rate you set.

I did notice that during the quick ramp up to speed there is a low resonance vibration that occurred before losing steps. If you have the driver with microstepping there is a small adjustment screw on the back of the Gecko driver

ADJUST: This trimpot adjusts the motor for the smoothest possible low-speed operation. Set the motor speed to
about 1/4 revolution per second, then turn the trimpot until a distinct null is noted in the motor’s vibration. This will
result in the most even microstep placement for a given motor and power supply voltage.

Failing all the above, Your power supply Voltage is too low for your needs. I would suggest upgrading the power supply to a higher Voltage.

If you eventually decide to do this we are all here to help.


Kind Regards
John
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: cjmerlin on December 06, 2006, 06:32:13 AM
Hi, The video say's it all. The sound is the stepper not keeping up with the amount of steps being sent from Mach. If you go to Motor tuning and select the drive, Let's say Z and decrease the Accel value then click on save settings. This will allow the pulses to ramp up from a slow start to the feed rate you set.

I did notice that during the quick ramp up to speed there is a low resonance vibration that occurred before losing steps. If you have the driver with microstepping there is a small adjustment screw on the back of the Gecko driver

ADJUST: This trimpot adjusts the motor for the smoothest possible low-speed operation. Set the motor speed to
about 1/4 revolution per second, then turn the trimpot until a distinct null is noted in the motor’s vibration. This will
result in the most even microstep placement for a given motor and power supply voltage.

Failing all the above, Your power supply Voltage is too low for your needs. I would suggest upgrading the power supply to a higher Voltage.

If you eventually decide to do this we are all here to help.


Kind Regards
John
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: wvancura on December 07, 2006, 01:10:47 PM
After looking at the video, I feel you could have a second problem. Yes, it is possible that the steppers are running too fast, but it is also likely that the drive screw is binding with the drive nut. It is interesting that it binds mostly in the direction of easiest motion, down (The motor is being assisted by the weight of the carriage assembly). This can come from misalignment if either the screw and/or the nut. Make absolutely sure that there is no binding. Turn off the power and turn the screw by hand and make sure that it turns freely the entire length of the screw, especially near the limits of travel.
If the screw is out of alignment, it will bind, or Get noticeably harder to turn, near the limits of travel. You may want to take some of the weight off the carriage to make it easier to feel.

If the nut is binding, it may happen near the screw center where shaft whipping can come into play. To test the nut for alignment (it may bind anywhere on the screw), loosen the nut, in its mount) so that it can freely follow the screw, and run your up/down test. You may notice that the jamming has stopped. If this is the case, you will need to make sure it stays aligned when you tighten it down again.

It is surprising how critical these adjustments are for smooth operation. I would first Align the screw at both ends several times to make sure it runs true with the nut, then make sure the nut is straight. Then do it one more time. The Z axis us usually more forgiving than X and Y.

If the unit has been in service a long time, the nut can be filled with debris (especially cutting plastic). If this is the case, the screw will be hard to turn anywhere on the shaft. Cleaning the nut threads will fix it.

Thanks.
Bill
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: DAlgie on December 07, 2006, 04:42:58 PM
I read all the posts in here and not once did I see the voltage mentioned you are running. Amps is one thing, but voltage is what a stepper needs. Measure what voltage is actually at the Geckos, I'm betting it's under 30V. You really need over 50V if you want any real speed, and your machine has sticky ways and does not have ballscrews. The buzzing sound is the steppers stalling for sure.
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 08, 2006, 07:42:29 PM
Hi,
I have been busy so I didn't have time to post earlier, thanks for the help. 

I when the power is off I can move all three leadscrews by hand.

The way the machine is designed is the stepper motor is connected to the lead screw with a coupling that has a plastic piece that is sandwiched between two aluminum pieces they have key shape in it. They are fastend with set screws to the lead screw, then there is a bearing that fits into a aluminum piece that has four screws holding it in place. Travelling on the lead screw is the antivibration nut it is mounted in aluminum plate that has three screws holding that in. Then the leadscrew ends with  another bearing held in another aluminum block and has a threaded end with a lock nut on it.

That was a description of the X axis it is my length of the table, the Y axis is the same but the Z is a bit different it has no thread on the end or lock nut it just has a stop.

The other thing is that the voltage on my stepper drivers are all the same at 35.2v so what does that mean? What is the max feed that I should run machine at?

Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Chip on December 08, 2006, 10:00:07 PM
Hi, Greg

Would you Post the G-code that goes with the video, ether your velocity, acceleration are set to high or some kind of binding is occurring.

Thanks, Chip
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 08, 2006, 11:44:52 PM
Hi,
I wasn't running a program I was just manually jogging the machine up and down in the Z. 
I got some good advice about acceleration and velocity and it seems to be working. I will run some more programs and see what happens.  I was told that the machine could handle what I was trying to run it at so I backed it off a bit and we will see if that helps the problem.
Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Chip on December 09, 2006, 10:57:34 AM
Hi, Greg

You stated the Z axis screw i sent supported at one end, is it whipping around at times, this would cause extra drag.

Its probably just to high Vel., Accl. though.

Just a Thought, Chip
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 12, 2006, 12:59:37 AM
Hi guys,
I happend again, it lost it's location after I brought down the acceleration and velocity. It ran two programs fine and the last more detailed program it messed up on, the cutter path that I was running was very large I don't know if that has anything to do with it, it took about 3 minutes to load into Mach. 

Also my computer has been acting weird lately, I had it crash twice using while using Mach, it just froze up it only made the beep sound when I clicked on things but nothing responded.  The only way that I could do anything was to hit the reset button on the computer, Cltr+Alt+Del didn't even work.  Also when I started Mach and cleared the reset button the machine took off with out me moving it or commanding it to do so, I hit ESC and it stopped and ran normal after. :-\

I also notice that the machine did another weird thing, I moved the machine manually and it sounded normal and then the motor slowed down and the tone of the motor dropped to a low rumble and didn't move any more even while I held the jog feed button down.

Here is a question for you Mach guru's ;). 
In the Mach manual chapter 4.4.2 Logic signals part way through it says:
"For an output signal to do anything, some current will have to flow in the circuit connected to it.  When it is "hi" current will flow out of the computer.  When it is "lo" current will flow into the computer.  The more current you have flowing in, the harder it is to keep the voltage near zero so the nearer to the permitted limit of 0.8 volts "lo" will become.  Similarly, current flowing out of a "hi" will make the voltages be lower and nearer to the 2.4 volts lower limit.  So with too much current the difference between "lo" and "hi" will be even less than 1.6 volts and things will become unreliable.  Finally, it's worth noting you are allowed roughly 20 times more current flowing into a ""lo" than you are allowed flowing out of a "hi".  So this means that it is best to assign logic 1 to be a "lo" signal.  Fairly obviously this is a active lo logic. The main practical disavantage of it is that the device connected to the parallel port has to have a 5 volt supply to it. this sometimes  take from the PC game port socket or from a power supply device that is connected."

Is it possible that this could have something to do with my problem? What if my USB that gives my machine it's 5 volts is not giving it 5 volts could that cause my machine to loose steps?

Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Chaoticone on December 12, 2006, 04:51:49 PM
Hi Greg,
    This could, make sure you have 5 volts on all of your pins. Some Pcs have a 3.5 volt power supply. What was your accel and vel set at in motor tuning before and now?
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: carlcnc on December 12, 2006, 04:57:12 PM
Just a thought,
Greg are you using the on-board video output??  This can cause interrupts in Mach3's pulse outputs,,even an old 8meg  will operate for MAch3.
 
have you "optimised" XP for Mach3 ?? I am surprised no one asked these questions yet
  good luck
Carl

 
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 12, 2006, 08:18:55 PM
Hi,
No I haven't optimised XP for Mach3. How do you do that?
I have a Rage 128 Pro Ultra GL AGP on my computer.
I will let you know about the 5 volts on the USB in a bit when I check it, I just got home.
Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 12, 2006, 09:26:42 PM
Hi,
When I put my multimeter on the USB connection it gets 1.28 volts, it should get 5 volts what should I do? It's AC right? If I wanted to buy a 5 volt power supply what should I buy? What would be the value of the Amps or Milliamps?
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: wvancura on December 12, 2006, 11:39:40 PM
Greg,
The USB power is 5 volts DC.
Thanks.
Bill
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Chip on December 12, 2006, 11:49:17 PM
Hi, Greg

USB has very limited current though, probably your problem I Hope. 

A 5 Volt 500 Ma, Wall plug-in type should work fine, install a 5 volt Regulator ( RadioShack has them looks like a Transistor 3 pin + - 5 volt).

Should be pretty straight forward install.

Hope this is enough Info if you need more Holler.

Hope this is It Hu, Chip 
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 13, 2006, 11:49:13 PM
Hi,
I couldn't find a 5volt power supply with the proper Ma, but I did find a 4.5 volt 500 Ma adapter. Is that good enough? I find the hot wire and run it to the same place that the USB wire ran to and then run the other wire to ground?
Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: wvancura on December 14, 2006, 09:35:58 AM
Greg, Measure the no-load voltage of the converter (not connected to anything) You will see that it is probably around 6 volts. If this is The case then it should work just fine
Thanks.
Bill
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Hood on December 14, 2006, 12:04:31 PM
If your computer is near to your control box you can take a 5V direct from the computers power supply,eg from a spare floppy drive connector. It is the red wire that is 5V, the yellow is 12V. Some of the better power supplies actually have a connector on the outside of them for taking power for things like external fans.
Hood
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 18, 2006, 02:48:18 PM
Hi,
I hooked up the 5 volt wire from the computers power supply, and I ran the program and it messed up.  So that wasn't the problem.  The problem with slowing down the Acceleration and Velocity is that it will take forever to run a program, and that's not an option.  Will increasing the power supply fix the problem. Also I have a weird looking breakout board, what do you think of it? Do I need to replace it?  You can see it on a another topic started by me. Can you send me some links for a good place to buy a power supply and breakout boards? I just want to get this machine fixed I don't care if I have to replace parts.
Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Hood on December 18, 2006, 03:06:27 PM
So slowing down your velocity/acceleration cures it? If yes then there is a good chance that increasing your PSU voltage will help but nothing is guaranteed.
 You can make a PSU up fairly easily, have a look at this pdf from Bob Campbell  http://www.campbelldesigns.com/how-to-build-a-power-supply.php
Hood
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: wvancura on December 18, 2006, 03:12:00 PM
Greg,
what speeds are you trying to run at?
1) What top speed and
2) acceleration and what
3) cut speed

4) And what speeds if any have you been able to run at successfully?
5) Does it mess up during cutting or during high speed travel (non cutting)

Thanks.
Bill
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on December 18, 2006, 10:19:53 PM
Hi,
Slowing down my acceleration/velocity helps the problem or at least it doesn't happen as often. I slowed down my rates so much that when I put my feed at 80ipm the max my machine would do is 30ipm.

My top speed is around 130ipm but I am running my Velocity at 3.5, my acceleration rate is .7 that puts my top feed at 60ipm and my average speed that I was trying to cut at is 80-100ipm.

I have run some programs at 80-100ipm but only a few of them made it all the way through, I seem to have sucess around 60ipm but eventually it will screw up too.  Also it seems the larger the program the more often it will screw up.

The video I have posted in another post shows it screwing up just when I am moving my machine in handle, it always messes up if I run a drill program. It doesn't like to switch between G0 and G1.

I have a time when the machine didn't screw up even from the first day I had it. They told me that I could cut around 100-120 ipm when I bought it.
Thanks,
Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: chad on December 19, 2006, 11:09:32 PM
Are you running any other programs with mach? Perhapse something that is looking for a dongle on the parallel port? Like maybe visual mill?

I have seen this pop up on the yahoo forum.

Chad

Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: method13 on January 21, 2007, 10:53:24 PM
Hey!!!
I am back, and I think I figured this problem out.  I think I am setting the cutterpath tolerance too high, so the machine is trying to hit all those points at a high feed rate and the motors can't keep it up and looses it's position.

The way I figured it out (at least I think I figured it out) is that I tried another CAM software and the default tolerance was .002 and I made a bunch of parts at a decent feed rate with out it screwing up.  The default for my original CAM software was .00001 way to tight for my machine and I don't even need it to be that tight.  I feel like a bone head that I didn't see it earlier, but I guess when you take a break and come back with a clear head you can end up seeing things you didn't see before.

Just as a survey who ever reads this post please tell me what you set your tolerance for contouring.  I am not 100% sure that this is the whole problem I still might need a larger power supply for the feeds that I would like to see the machine run at.

Please let me know what you think,

Greg
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Chaoticone on January 21, 2007, 10:56:41 PM
Hey Greg,
   Glad to see you are still around. The tolerance setting is totaly up to you, but I set my at .004".


Brett
Title: Re: Help! Please! this Chaos has to stop!
Post by: Brian Barker on January 22, 2007, 11:23:28 PM
Is this Artcam?