Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: jimmyaz on May 28, 2011, 11:25:19 PM
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I have two computers
#1 (very old Dell)
450mhz CPU
500mb ram
64mb delicated graphix card
Frequency Pulse: showing 25001 or so and it stay solid
#2 (IMB think centre, just bought it from craiglist yesterday)
3.00ghz
1gb ram
128 Intel Shared Chip graphic
Frequency Pulse: showing 2000o or so, but fluctuate up and down about 50-100.
I have been using the old computer (Dell) to run test on my new CNC router, which have the Xylotex driver. Pretty much I left everything at Mach3 default and it work just fine. The funny thing is when I tried with the new computer... there's a problem. The setting on Mach3 are the same for both comp. IN the Motor Tuning window, the new one work too... I can jog back and forth at 2000mm/m just fine for all axis. But as soon as I EXIT that window and jog normally... every is mess up, stepper motor stall and run like a jig saw...and barely can travel at all.
To confirm this, I hook the driver back to the old comp (Dell) and as expected, it work just fine. What the hell right? So I change the Frequency to 35,000hz (IBM comp) and does not fix anything. So I took the IBM comp and plug it into my old Hubbard CNC Unipolar driver and... it seem to run it just fine.
WHAT THE HECK?
I have search all day and read somewhere someone said he was having a lot of trouble with his PC with a shared Graphic card?
Do you think this could be my problem?
What I don't understand is, why does it work FINE under the Motor Tune window....??? and why did the IBM work fine with my old cnc/driver... I dont get it...
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Jimmy,
Under motor tuning there are no graphic or DRO updates so your computer doesn't get overloaded. When you return to the main screen your computer cannot keep up, the Mach pulsing suffers and it all goes pear shaped.
Assuming you are running XP then you could try the optimisation routines here http://www.machsupport.com/downloads/XP_Optimization.txt
Failing that it is another PC, without onboard graphics, that is required. :'(
Tweakie.
Addition: ( Using the optimisation and disabling the ACPI enabled my old Dell Inspiron to work OK )
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Hi Tweakie,
I have went into BIOS and increase the amount of shared memory of the graphic card from 128 to 256mb. However this not fix a thing.
I did do all of the Window Optimize (except the ACPI one)... This did not help either. Before the Frequency only fluctuate 50-100... After I did the remove of ACPI and put it in Standard PC... .The frequency now are going from 24,000 to 60, 20, then back to 25,000.
This is now officially getting me go to nut.
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Sorry Buddy, looks like you need a different PC.
Alternately, you could consider using an external motion controller such as Smooth Stepper et al.
Tweakie.
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Darn it... :) Who could believe a system like this isn't capable of running a CNC driver? This is too bad, as it's a fast small desktop that would had fit so nicely to my work shop.
I wish I could confirm it's indeed that it need a dedicated graphic card and it will work... I can buy one for 25.00, I would hate to buy it then it will not work... then this computer is useless + a 25.00 graphic card... :D
Tweakie, are you sure about the Motor Tuning page vs the main Window, the main window require more graphic? You don't think 200mb shared graphic is not enough? I thought it would... since the old Dell only have 64mb dedicated graphic card. Under the TASK window, the system is only showing 200mb of ram being use, and 750mb ram available... .
:((((((((((
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I am a long way from being a computer expert in fact a long way from being an expert on anything but I think the onboard graphics makes the processor multi task with a different priority to what Mach requires so everything gets screwed up.
Here in the UK we have Car Boot Sales every weekend and second user PCI graphics cards cost peanuts so it is cheap to try and if it doesn't work well nothing lost.
A plug-in graphics card usually works as long as the onboard graphics can be disabled in the BIOS and it can be as old as you like (as long as it matches the slot voltage) because it only has to provide an 800 x 600 display as minimum - surely you must be able to borrow one to try ?
Tweakie.
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Well.. I went to Frys Electronics and pick up a PCI paralle adapter just so I can try my home office desktop with a Built in delicated graphic card...
128mb delicated and 326mb shared...
It worked.
So... I am now 95% sure it's the shared graphic card in the IBM that's causing the problem.
errrr... i guess now I need to buy a cheepo graphic card.
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Thanks for the information guys. I got the same problem here.
Can you please let us know what exactly is your problem? your motor run smooth under Motor Tune but not at main window?
FYI... i tried the new pci adapter paralle card on the IBM computer just for the heck of it... same problem...
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Hello
I did lost of research and asked many Mach 3 users what their choice of computer was and Dell was the winner. If a Dell is good enough for Art then it was going to be the computer I wanted. I got a nice used Dell Optiplex GX270 off ebay. I'm using shared video and system hasn't been Mach 3 optimized. Everything runs like a champ. One thing I did find out the hard way is the more drivers and updates you do after initial operating system install the more problems I had. When Mach3 started computer would freeze up. Reinstalled bare bones operating system with on board sound, serial port, and network disabled. No windows updates allowed. No internet. No networking. I did install the windows .net framework 2.0 so i could use Norton Ghost for backup. I have second computer for internet and CAD CAM software. The Dell is only for CNC controller.
Eric
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Hi Eric,
The Dell you're using, is it the Small Compact one or the standard size PC? I first was looking at the Dell Optiplex... found one on craiglist for a good price. But when I call the owner he no longer have it... and he said he have a IBM with better specification and for only 10.00 more... So I went a head and bought it... but didn't know it give me this much of headache.
What's the specs for your Dell Optiplex?
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Hello
Mine is the small one not the big tower. It is an Intel P4 2.4Ghz. It has the on board Intel graphics controller. You can add your own AGP graphics card and opt out of the onboard graphics.
You can put up to 4G of memory in the GX270 but I've heard that going over 2G can create boot problems. Here is the link for the Dell sepcs sheet www.dell.com/downloads/us/products/optix/gx270_spec.pdf. I got mine off ebay for $15. S&H was around $20. CD drive installed but no hard drive installed. There are a couple of PCI slots so you could add a PCI parallel port card for LPT2. I didn't want to spend a lot if it was a bust but I'm very happy. I don't know why the new PCs are have such a hard time running Mach3. All I know is I wanted an all Intel system. My old computer was an AMD system and I had nothing but problems trying to run Mach3. Now it is just for CAD CAM.
Eric
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Well... my friend let me borrow a PCIe 256mb graphic card and try it out.... it wouldn't turn on display... So I went out and bought a new 1gb geforce today... wouldn't work either... So I spend hours searching online finally modify some pin on the card and got it to work perfect.
Guess what? Didn't help one bit... son of aaaaaa..... gez. Anyway. I am going nut. Here's the funny part... NOW even in Motor Tunning, it jitter and studder just as much? What the fffff???
Only think I can think of is the 225watts power supply... Anyone think this could be a issue? More powerful graphic card pull more power and made it worse?
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I assume you are on XP?
I use Windows 7, tried it on my notebook(Dell Precision M6500, 1.6Ghz) and on the controller (which is hardware I put together, so no brand name, ATOM 1.8Ghz D425 on Windows 7 Embedded). Both have Solid state SATA drives and onboard graphics, the notebook ATI and the controller intel, both run 100Khz without a problem, on the notebook it runs at max speed without losing a blip on the driver test with all 8 cores busy rendering at 100% CPU load. The difference between the two is that when I open and close something on the notebook it stays steady, when I do it on the controller it takes a blip which doesn't matter though since I'm using a kflop anyway.
I've been wondering if these machines having problems are using IDE or SATA as the hard drive interface and if there is a difference?
What mainboard chipsets are they using, this is most likely the problem more-so than the onboard video card, a lot of system boards with onboard video are cheap low throughput boards.
Try and get an old server or workstation and NOT a desktop, I doubt you will ever see a problem on the high IO boards, which is more important than high CPU speed.
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I have used just about every make of computer out there to run mach 3, and i see more problems with the compact desktops than any other type of computer. One advent compact desktop did have a similar problem to your computer, poor running, grumbling drives, in the end i binned it. You could try a seperate ground from the machines drive electronics to the breakout board, it has helped in the past.
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No help at all but this type of problem is occurring more and more frequently as the old technology PC's with parallel ports and WinXP are starting to become scarce. The future of Mach will perhaps lie in 'external motion controllers' but which one is best to use is anybody's guess.
I have one machine running with the Smooth Stepper and that works just great but from reading other threads I see it would not be suitable for all machine situations.
Anyone else have any views on the future for Mach (except that version 4 will solve everything) ??
Tweakie.
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I try to use pentium 4 pc's and have very little trouble with them, whether they have dedicated graphics or shared graphics cards.
The most important thing to remember is the computer is there to run a cnc machine, and only a cnc machine, no frills or internet or virus protectors or ultrasonic keyboards or mice, or anything else.
Keep it simple and it will work.
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The difference between the two is that when I open and close something on the notebook it stays steady, when I do it on the controller it takes a blip which doesn't matter though since I'm using a kflop anyway.
Since you're using the KFLOP, the drivertest is meaningless, as the KFLOP handles all the step and direction signals. With an external motion controller like the KFLOP or Smoothstepper, virtually ANY PC should run Mach3 just fine.
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Well, I guess I have to give up... I pull a Power Supply from my old CPU which is a ATX... thought it would work... all the plug fit. but the damn IBM power supply is unique or something... when I plug my other PS in... it will not power on.
I guess I can go back to my other old comp and have to use that for now. I am afraid of buying another computer and it freaken don't work. However, I have start to notice a problem running it with the old comp yesterday. For some weird reason, running 2500mm-3000mm in the Motor Tune window and main window it's fine. But when running a Gcode file... It loses position.... I believe I did not hear the stepper stall or losing step. But Mach3 totally lost it and the cut miss like 10-30mm of gap.
If I run at about 1000-1500mm/m, then it seem fine.
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If I run at about 1000-1500mm/m, then it seem fine.
I think you have answered your own question here. ;D
You could do as Gerry did (at least I think it was Gerry) and find a local computer supply store, take a copy of Mach on CD and explain that this is the program you want to be able to run and if the Driver Test works OK on their recommended computer then you will buy it. If they don't want to play ball find another store.
Tweakie.
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The difference between the two is that when I open and close something on the notebook it stays steady, when I do it on the controller it takes a blip which doesn't matter though since I'm using a kflop anyway.
Since you're using the KFLOP, the drivertest is meaningless, as the KFLOP handles all the step and direction signals. With an external motion controller like the KFLOP or Smoothstepper, virtually ANY PC should run Mach3 just fine.
I did the test just to see how it runs.
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Tweakie, running the machine slower than it can is avoiding the problem.. not solving it... :)
As for the driver test... I don't quite understand how to ready the result? What's consider good and what's consider bad, what are you suppose to look for in the test?
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Anyone else have any views on the future for Mach (except that version 4 will solve everything) ??
Tweakie.
Mach will just get better as time goes on. Any software as complicated and multi-faceted as Mach, takes a long time to sort out. As I understand, Brian is a re-organizing the entire program into a better structured format, with fewer inherent problems. I am sure he has a few new goodies as well! ::)
However, v.4 will not resolve hardware problems.
The parallel port is really old technology in this fast changing world of computers. Ethernet is the new fast communication link, and is on every new computer today, and should be a consideration when building a new system.
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As for the driver test... I don't quite understand how to ready the result? What's consider good and what's consider bad, what are you suppose to look for in the test?
A flat line with no spikes is preferable.
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Hi
Give this a shot...
http://www.keyshot.com/
Download the trial of keyshot, install it and run it while you do the drivertest / mach, see if it solves the problem. You don't actually have to do anything in keyshot, as long as it is running.
If I have Keyshot running the drivertest flatlines at 100Khz, when I close it it is all over the place... maybe it works for you? It would be interesting if it does, it would point to a software solution.
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EDIT: Post removed.
Try keyshot even on a single cpu/core system.
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I gave up!
I fixed my other PC, full size tower. 2.4ghz, 1.3gb ram, 128mb graphic... and it work great. I was able to run 35,000hz or even higher.... Was able to run maximum speed without losing position.
I am now positive it's the power supply, as adding more hardware made the problem worse.
:)
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Hi jimmyaz
Glad you got back up and running again. Some computers are just junk for running Mach 3. I thought about a new computer to run Mach 3. Then saw the prices and still there was no guarantee that Mach 3 would work. That's why I went with old technology and a proven brand of computer used by many Mach 3 users. Happy chips.
Eric
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Well, with the working comp... I was able to do this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndHjIDd15Gg
I am hoping the new Spindle would fix the noise issue of the router, as you can hear in the video... :)