Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: GEMCNC on April 20, 2011, 04:15:17 AM
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Dear General ArtSoft Mach3 Forum !
We have restarted our investigation into using the Mach3 software to run an old Gerber 48 Routing System using DC Stepper Motors !
There seems to be a great deal of breakout boards being sold out in the general cnc market place by a number of suppliers !
Our question is a very simple one, what is the "BEST BREAKOUT BOARD" recommended by most of the ARTSoft Mach3 Forum, that is going to allow us to initially run the above 3 Axes Stepper based Routing System, but will also allow us to easily expand, and perform the following progressive steps as required !
Our overall intentions is to be able to perform the following from the one Breakout Board :
(a) Drive all three motor types : Steppers, DC Servo, and AC Servo configurations.
(b) Have the facilities to drive independently a total of either 3, 4, 5, or 6 Axes.
(c) Have direct control over a 0-24,000rpm Automatic Tool Changing Spindle with dedicated Frequency Inverter.
(d) Perform Automatic Tool Changing of up to 12 Tools.
(e) Automatic Tool Height Sensor.
(f) Be able to turn on Spray Mist, Z-Axis brake relay, Alarm lamp relay- Red/Green Lamps, Lube relay, Coolant relay, External cycle buttons Start/Stop, External feed-rate switch, External spindle speed switch, etc.
(g) MPG Pendants and External User Control Panel.
(h) Touch Probe for standard centre and edge detection, but also for reverse on screen digitizing of components to be engineered.
(i) Allow expansion of Inputs and Outputs etc.
Thank you !
With kindest regards.
Joe c/o GEM CNC Systems.
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Everyone will probably have a different opinion based on their experience, likes and dislikes but my money would be on the CNC4PC type C11 board. http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=161
Tweakie.
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Check out the PMDX-126, but I'm not sure you can do all you want from a single board.
You might want to look at the Centipede board. http://www.ksilabs.com/
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PMDX for me, have never heard of a bad one which is more than can be said for other makes. That may not be important to most but for me it is, especially when it can take 2 weeks and incurr customs charges for replacements to be sent.
Hood
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Thank you !
Has anyone got any feedback or had any dealing with the Digital CNC Control Kits supplied by "MachMotion" such as the following : http://machmotion.com/cnc-products/cnc-controls-1/cnc-control.html as they seem to have done all the hard work for you !
Any comments would be greatly appreciated !
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One of the best combos I have seen/used is the Smooth Stepper hooked to the C32 board from CNC4PC (you can also use the PP feature on the C32 if your not running a SS). Cost is good here, quality is good, customer support is great.
Another option like Hood said is Steve Stallings stuff, His stuff is built to be MORE robust, you pay a little more, but he builds rock solid industrial level stuff!
He has several integrated solutions.
MM, I can't speak to their products I don't use them.
DSPMC, I don't use them. [edited by me].
At the "Money" level, for an industrial machine your making cash with on a daily basis, I would go with a Galil Motion board/plugin. The Galil IS a true Industrial CNC motion control board, you WILL pay for that fact, but........ you do get what you pay for, and if UPTIME is the main factor, go that way.
I am playing with the "Centipede" Motion control board, which so far appears well built, and alot of cool features, PLUS they have OPEN sourced their code, so you can modify it to what you need if you have to. The down side here is it is limited to XP machines.......... Since Mach revision 4 is on the horizon and all of that will be moved to modern compilers and OS's...... I think that will limit the "life time" and access to replacement systems, in the future........ even now it is getting difficult to find XP OS's and machines......
Technics products/boards, I have never used so dont know.
Industrial Controls: This is the "Industrial Mach" version, the MCP-1 and Scorpion boards have good reviews.
"Wolfman" of CNC Strasbourg Germany, has licensed the SS tech from Greg, and he makes an Ethernet (YEA!!!!) driven SS motion control board, that is industrial built. I have not personally used his stuff, but he is a known name for knowledgeable work, and good solutions.
Scott
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It would be really nice if we could find someone to try this board.
(http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=17992.0;attach=25931;image)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-axis-CNC-USB-Card-Mach3-200KHz-windows2000-xp-vista-/260759887366?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3cb6801e06#ht_8263wt_1139
Tweakie.
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It would be really nice if we could find someone to try this board.
(http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=17992.0;attach=25931;image)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-axis-CNC-USB-Card-Mach3-200KHz-windows2000-xp-vista-/260759887366?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3cb6801e06#ht_8263wt_1139
Tweakie.
I own and use this card on my Seig X3 mill. If you have any questions about it, ask and I'll do my best to answer in detail.
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You may want to consider the CSMIO/IP-M - Ethernet, 4 axis, and a load of I/O
http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/galeria-zdjecie-dD-60-CSMIOIPM_4axis_Ethernet_Motion_Controller__instead_of_LPT_solution.html (http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/galeria-zdjecie-dD-60-CSMIOIPM_4axis_Ethernet_Motion_Controller__instead_of_LPT_solution.html)
I have one and so far it's looking nice - Haven't got to the point of making chips yet but testing has been OK.
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dear Tweakie.CNC
good day
I me a new one in the web side and cnc machine but i need to mack small one machine. then i need more the help.
Please how to connecting the board to mach3
thanks
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Tweakie,
That's the board I have in my homebuilt machine. I reported a problem with jogging continuing on it's own sometimes. However others reported the same problem with Mach3 and other boards. I solved it for safety reasons by disabling the arrow keys and using the job controller pop up only. That said it actually works very well. I actually have a smooth stepper and a PMDX-126 to replace it, but it has worked so well I'm thinking I don't want to make the effort.
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Not really impressed with CNC4PC boards however the PMDX-126 is one heck of a nice board.
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Definitely no issues with the PMDX126. If space isnt an issue, it is the standard by which all will be measured in the price range I am in anyway.
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Like to bring our Integra Controller + Breakout into the mix here:
(http://www.vitalsystem.com/portal/motion/hicon/hicon_integra/integra_sm.jpg)
We are working closely with Mach developers to match latest Mach4 releases. We provide feature rich plugin, outstanding support and USA made high reliability hardware systems.
regards,
VSI Sales Team
www.vsys.co/integra (http://www.vsys.co/integra)
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I'm currently looking for a breakout board as well. I bought a kit from longs motor and the Bob arrived defective, and I decided to upgrade instead of go after the warranty. I've seen the zhc mach motion boards. But after reading this thread, a couple of you guys mentioned pmdx and their 126 board, which I'm looking into. I was also considering this board:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/CNC-200KHz-6-Axis-USB-Mach3-Card-Controller-Breakout-Interface-Board-Aluminum-/261719017210?nav=SEARCH (http://m.ebay.com/itm/CNC-200KHz-6-Axis-USB-Mach3-Card-Controller-Breakout-Interface-Board-Aluminum-/261719017210?nav=SEARCH)
But, I think I'm going to end up with the pmdx. First there here in the USA. And Second it looks like they have good documentation on the product, which longs totally lacks. And lastly it has good reviews.
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The Ebay board you linked to is a motion control board, while the PMDX-126 is a breakout board only. Be aware that you're comparing two different types of boards.
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What do you mean? I wouldn't be able to hook these up to my drivers and run?
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In it's native state Mach3 is designed to control the I/O pins of the parallel port. A breakout board normally plugs into the parallel port and acts as both a buffer and a safety barrier via optical isolation (often but not always).
A motion controller card on the other hand, generally seems to need a software plugin written specifically for Mach3, so Mach3 knows how to talk to it. Think of it like all the different pieces of hardware on a PC also need a driver so the operating system knows how to talk to them. It's also possible that you MAY lose some standard Mach functionality that is native with Mach3. Example Torch Height Control or M10/11 laser commands. They are just two off the top of my head.
Keith.
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Oh OK I think I get the difference now. So pretty much anything other than a parallel port board is considered a motion controller because they need to use plugins. So the pmdx 126 board is a breakout board only. But if I also add the smooth stepper card that would make it a motion controller then? Thanks for the input I never thought about this difference. I just knew some had plugins and some didnt.
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A breakout board facilitates connecting your drives and other devices to the parallel port pins. The parallel port is sending the step and direction signals to the drive.
With a motion controller, the motion controller generates the step and direction signals itself, based on commands that Mach3 sends to it.
A Smoothstepper is a motion controller. When you add a Smoothstepper to a PMDX 126, you have a breakout board with a motion controller mounted to it.
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The UC300 is another motion controller board that has a plugin written for Mach3 and connects via USB. The manufacturer says that the board itself has no protection on the outputs (optical isolation) and so a breakout board should be added into the mix. So then you have a breakout board for the motion controller board.
The rabbit hole gets deeper.
Keith.
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I have, and dont use anymore, a USB SS (noise, drivers, bugs ), and a Centipede (no mach4 support), and a PP.
I have, use, and recommend a Pokeys+CNCAddon, and a CSMIO-IPS or CSMIO-anything.
Cheap - very good:
Pokeys+CNC is very good, great drivers/plugins, cheap, 125 kHz, lots of IO.
The best:
CSMIO is 100+ IO (needed for industrial stuff, 4 Mhz, differential, real threading, step/dir spindles, servos well supoprted).
+ Support threading and SERVO SPINDLES !
-Drawback. A full lathe system is 1500€+.
Otoh .. So is anything else as this level.
500+ bootlace ferrules, wiring, din rails, 2 x DC24V PSU, connectors, wires, 100 hours to connect everything.
All motion-control boards do stuff differently.
Most plugins dont work well, and wont support some stuff.
Most USB stuff works so-so, with all sorts of drawbacks and or problems.
Ethernet is a better connection medium (ethernet is galvanically isolated by default)
Ethernet has much less latency, and much less issues
Typical problems:
Noise
Speed (500 kHz is what you really, really want, or more)
How many axes are supported
How does slaving work. Racking ? Is slaving reliable *always* ?
Homing
Probing
Threading *properly*
CSS on lathe
Multiple spindle support, C-axis support (lathe), swapaxis() support
Rear toolpost on lathe
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To hell with the longs motor bob. I replaced and upgraded it with pmdx's 126 bob. I want to thank everyone that posted to this topic which helped me find pmdx. I have the manual printed out already, I just ordered the board and can't wait for it to arrive. Any tips or pointers, possibly wiring diagrams from successful setups? Thanks again everyone.
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Just thought Id drop in and say I got my pmdx board yesterday got it in and got the x and a axis working right off the bat. Im really liking this board so far. It has a lot of additional features that the other boards do not have. Ill probably be adding the pwm spindle board. I think their model is the pmdx 107 as well as a smooth stepper board. The documentation is well written and thorough as well.
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For one and a half years I worked with home-made milling machines with 4 servomotor drive.
it is controlled by USB MotionCard AKZ250
I attach Move block diagram
For me it works very well without mistakes
Of course all connections are shielded me.
Indulis
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PMDX makes some wonderfully robust boards.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hi Tweaking. I will send you the sml file tonight. If my computer was hit by lightning could it have fried something in the bob? If so could I get you to suggest a good bob for a 4 axis machine with ss. Hopefully I can get the file to you early enough so you can look 5it thanks again Kevin
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I can easily recommend boards made by cnc4youstore.com (english) Otherwise cncmania.co.kr
I have an older version CMC101 breakoutboard, with built in PWM signal to control speed of Spindle, relays, and a bunch of I/O's.
Their bigger boards have from 4-6 axis control, and a bunch of I/O's, all have spindle speed controller built into the boards. And they run on 24VDC rather than 5VDC which is sensitive to EM noise.
The boards them selves are not that expensive, The CM106 board which is a 6 axis breakout board is not a bad choice for multi axis controls.
I have added a few links for the boards they deliver.
http://www.cnc4youstore.com/cnc-mach3-board-7-relay-cm-126.html
http://www.cnc4youstore.com/cnc-mach3-multifunctional-breakout-board-cm-106.html
This one is the closest I can come to the model I have.
http://www.cnc4youstore.com/new-cnc-breakout-board-mach3-cm-201-parallel-connection-interface-board..html
And I gotta tell you, running LPT still gives great results.
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The MB2 breakout board from CNCRoom is a good alternative also.
http://www.cncroom.com/break-out-board/smooth-stepper (http://www.cncroom.com/break-out-board/smooth-stepper)
MachBob2 (MB2) is designed for industrial application and specifically to work with the Ethernet
Smooth Stepper (ESS) which is an excellent motion control board designed to be used with Mach3
and Mach4
Here are some of the good features.
- New! Utilizes all three ports from the ESS.
- New! Accept frequency up to 4 MHz.
- New! Differential line driver for motion signals enables longer wiring with more resistance to
interference when compared to TTL open end.
- New! A single 24Vdc Power Supply is needed. There is a 5Vdc isolated and non‐isolated dc2dc
converter on board, thus saving installation space and wiring.
- New! OSSD (Output Signal Switching Device) outputs and safety circuit are implemented when a
peripheral device such as a servo motor drive or a spindle VFD trigger an alarm condition, which
causes the Safety Circuit to disengage the OSSD output. This method is used in large CNC machines
to cut power from the drives.
- New! LED status for all inputs and outputs including motion control signals. This makes it much
easier to diagnose and trouble shoot.
- New! Polarity and over voltage protection (in conjunction with a fuse) for the 24Vdc power supply.
- An “AnaSpeed” circuit has been implemented. This circuit is totally isolated from the MB2 and forms
a part of the VFD inverter, acting as a digital VR. High voltage noise from the inverter
cannot cause interfere through this connection.
- A Charge‐Pump signal is provided. This helps the user to form a safety interlock condition among
controller and devices.
- 22 isolated input terminals, consisting of 17 terminals of NPN and 5 terminals of PNP type.
- 14 NPN isolated output terminals capable of sinking current up to 100mA for each channel and up to
500mA per group.
- New! MB2v1.5, 2 onboard relays with both NO / NC contacts and “Off Delay Time”, which can be
used for “Z Drop Protection” application. (MB2v1.3 does not have this feature)
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It would be really nice if we could find someone to try this board.
(http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=17992.0;attach=25931;image)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-axis-CNC-USB-Card-Mach3-200KHz-windows2000-xp-vista-/260759887366?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item3cb6801e06#ht_8263wt_1139
Tweakie.
I own and use this card on my Seig X3 mill. If you have any questions about it, ask and I'll do my best to answer in detail.
This is an old thread, but have to comment on this board. I use 3 of them, one on a Taig mill and two more on two different laser systems. Been using them for about 2-3 years. These are super easy to set up, just copy a plugin, BUT and a big BUT, there are two glitches with all three and it involves the Shift Key. It seems the Shift Key doesn't disengage sometimes, causing the board to act as if the Shift Key was still pressed. So, if you do a full speed jog with the Shift and Arrow key. Let go, then press the arrow key to slowly jog (say jog set at 10%) then sometimes it will jog again at full speed and CRASH. Or if you jog with the Shift and Arrow key, then let go. Then start the spindle with F5, the relay will chatter, causing the spindle (or Laser) to chudder or flash. You then have to tap the shift key a couple times and the spindle or laser will operate fine. I have ruined several parts because of this glitch, and am looking for a replacement board, but am afraid of some other damn glitch. Same thing, different flavor. I like the USB, no messing around with a parallel (dinosaur) port. No issues with noise, just the "Shift Key."
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The MB2 breakout board from CNCRoom is a good alternative also.
http://www.cncroom.com/break-out-board/smooth-stepper (http://www.cncroom.com/break-out-board/smooth-stepper)
MachBob2 (MB2) is designed for industrial application and specifically to work with the Ethernet
Smooth Stepper (ESS) which is an excellent motion control board designed to be used with Mach3
and Mach4
Here are some of the good features.
- New! Utilizes all three ports from the ESS.
- New! Accept frequency up to 4 MHz.
- New! Differential line driver for motion signals enables longer wiring with more resistance to
interference when compared to TTL open end.
- New! A single 24Vdc Power Supply is needed. There is a 5Vdc isolated and non‐isolated dc2dc
converter on board, thus saving installation space and wiring.
- New! OSSD (Output Signal Switching Device) outputs and safety circuit are implemented when a
peripheral device such as a servo motor drive or a spindle VFD trigger an alarm condition, which
causes the Safety Circuit to disengage the OSSD output. This method is used in large CNC machines
to cut power from the drives.
- New! LED status for all inputs and outputs including motion control signals. This makes it much
easier to diagnose and trouble shoot.
- New! Polarity and over voltage protection (in conjunction with a fuse) for the 24Vdc power supply.
- An “AnaSpeed” circuit has been implemented. This circuit is totally isolated from the MB2 and forms
a part of the VFD inverter, acting as a digital VR. High voltage noise from the inverter
cannot cause interfere through this connection.
- A Charge‐Pump signal is provided. This helps the user to form a safety interlock condition among
controller and devices.
- 22 isolated input terminals, consisting of 17 terminals of NPN and 5 terminals of PNP type.
- 14 NPN isolated output terminals capable of sinking current up to 100mA for each channel and up to
500mA per group.
- New! MB2v1.5, 2 onboard relays with both NO / NC contacts and “Off Delay Time”, which can be
used for “Z Drop Protection” application. (MB2v1.3 does not have this feature)
I ordered an MB2 a few weeks ago, and it's hands down the most professional looking breakout board I've ever seen. It's also the cheapest way to get 3 ports of I/O in a single board solution.
While it's designed to be used with an ESS, I'm using it with a UC300ETH with a minor mod, removing the wire to pin26 in the ribbon cables.
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Everyone will probably have a different opinion based on their experience, likes and dislikes but my money would be on the CNC4PC type C11 board. http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=161
Tweakie.
Hi Tweekie,
I'm back after a long spell away, hopefully you will not objectto my direct question.
I have ESS Smooth stepper with CM106 BOB.
When wiring the stepper drives I have connected Pulse - and Dir - to the Axis output on the CM106. I'm confused with the Pulse + and Dir + because on my previous board I hooked these up to 5Vdc. Do I do the same for the CM106 ??
Regards
George
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Hi George,
The CM106 has connections for Pul+, Dir+, Pul-, Dir- and that’s where they should be connected.
Tweakie.