Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: ostie01 on March 15, 2011, 05:15:39 AM
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I bought a motherboard on Ebay (ECS 648FX-A 478 Motherboard+2.6G CPU+1 GB RAM)
Radeon 9250 128MB 8XAGP Video Card
I have installed many boards for Mach3 in the past years but I could never make this one work
I have tried every thing that is possible. I have 5 of 6 AGP video card, tried all of them with no luck. Installed drivers for each of them.
Re-install Mach3 5 or 6 times, formatting drive each time.
Done everything on the optimization for XP.
As soon as spindle is on, computer freeze, as soon as I turn off spindle(turn off VFD) computer work again.
If I try with special driver, input like S12000 M3 on MDI line, spindle will not start, but can see output 2 blinking on parameter page.
I had MachStdMill installed and tough that it could be the problem, but I think it is not.
When it was working (a little bit), Computer was shutting down almost at every minute or so.
Power supply is good, had 1.5G or ram
Will try with an old board I have that I know was working before(changed because it only have USB 1.0 and on board graphic)
Nothing have changer on my router, every cable is shielded, nothing more or less than with previous motherboard.
Guess this is one of those mystery.
Jeff
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If its only when the spindle is on then it sounds as if that mobo is particularly susceptible to noise, maybe a PCI port would help if the noise is getting in due to the onboard port..
Hood
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Hi Jeff,
That motherboard sounds good.
I don't suppose it's any help but my initial VFD / PC problems were caused by an earth loop. The machine frame is connected to earth and the heatsink of the VFD is bolted to the machine frame. Disconnecting the incoming earth to the VFD solved the PC problem (it now gets it's earth from the machine frame and the shop radio works again, without any 'wailing' at start up ;D ).
Tweakie.
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Thanks for reply guys.
I did not change anything to my setup except the motherboard.
Same breakout board, same everything.
When I start spindle, it is impossible to change pages in Mach3, mouse can move but does not work, cannot reset either.(mach3, not the computer)
What is so special about the special driver?
This week end, I have tried to do a small job, a lot of weird things happened during the small time I could use the router.
I did try all day to do a 10 minutes job but never finish it.
Maybe you're right, it can be more prone to noises due to VFD.
Every thing is mounted in a big electrical box (28 X 36) VFD is about 10 inches from motherboard.
I've replaced the board with the old one, still have to download display driver and install it, re-install Mach3 + maybe MachStdMill
Not sure about MachStdMill because I do not understand yet how to change Macro because it look like it is not the same functions as standard Mach3.
I have a lot of trouble reading the Manual' I had to build a list of the shortcut word use in this manual, but English is not my primary language, so this is probably my fault.
Jeff
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Jut put another computer board in the control panel.
Well same thing, but now I can have access to keyboard if I do not click button on the mouse first.
Hit F5, spindle stop and mouse work again. ??? ???
Tried another mouse I had but same thing.
The only thing is I'm not sure is if it is the same Windows installation disk that previous time when it was working great.
Maybe I could try to find if I still have some old installation disk available.
Jeff
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Well, did some testing tonight.
I tought I had found the problem, a 50 cents problem, since I was having problems with the mouse, I have tried an small adapter from USB to serial.
This worked since I could have control of the mouse when spindle was working.
Now, there is one problem remaining.
A couple of minutes after the machine start cutting, I could ear the spindle slowing down.
They're 3 or 4 application opening at the same time, Internet wizard, calculator, search windows and some others I don't remember and bang, mach3 close and computer freeze.
One more thing I have to try, is re-format, re-install Windows XP with new CD and re-install Mach3 and every other drivers.
Will keep posting.
Jeff
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Jeff,
Is it possible than in changing motherboards you have made an additional (or broken a previous) ground connection ?
Tweakie.
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They're 3 or 4 application opening at the same time, Internet wizard, calculator, search windows and some others I don't remember and bang, mach3 close and computer freeze.
Not quite sure what you are meaning with the above. Are they opening themselves or are you opening them?
Hood
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When Mach3 is running you really shouldn't be using other programs in the background, especially the internet.
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All those program will open without warning, I do not touch anything, the router is working and then all those program open on their own
I do not have internet installed on the router, no router, no modem no cable.
The only thing that is installed on the computer is Mach3, nothing else, fresh format of C: drive and fresh install of Mach3 V3.043.022
That version was needed in order to install MachStdMill.
This afternoon, I have removed every thing that I could, (in windows safe mode)
Rename Calc.exe oldCal.exe and other programs.
I've been able to work with the router for about 3 or 4 minutes and Mach3 shut down and computer freeze.
Spindle stay on when Mach3 close without warning.
Will do more testing to see what can cause this problem.
I have a brand new 2.2kw VFD still in the box, maybe I could swap with the other? ???
Jeff
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I would say its either a virus or dodgy hardware such as keyboard or mouse.
Hood
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Did some more testing tonight.
Did another fresh format of C drive and a fresh install of Windows XP from an original CD.
Removed a relay board and use the remaining relay of the C6 spindle board and re-wire.
Same thing happen, one more test I did is check CPU usage under Mach3.
Only to drive spindle, about 20%
X axis + Spindle = 70%
X + Y + Spindle = 90% and more, not suppose to be like this.
I don't know what CPU usage should be but much too high to get a stable system.
And again, calculator, internet explorer wizard and some others process will open without warning.
And now, I really don't know what I should try.
My hard disk has 3 partitions, C: D: and E: I only formatted the partition C.
One desperate guy.
Jeff
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COU useage is way to high but you realise that already. On my Pico mobos the CPU (1Gig ) rarely gets above 10%, having said that I use the SS so that takes some overhead away from the computer.
Have a look at the processes and see what is using the memory.
If its an Intel CPU look in the BIOS and disable any of Intels power saving features.
Hood
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It is an old 1.4Ghz, I f I remember well, K7SOM v5.2C
I have downloaded all the latest driver, including on board video
This board was working great before I remove it.
Could it be possible that, if partition D: and E: have not been formatted, something like a virus or malware keep Fu... my C drive.
When jogging with the spindle running, it slow down a bit, probably due to CPU being too busy.
They're maybe a dozen of process running, only one I could not recognize, will verify that tomorrow, I have stopped it to see and it makes no difference.
Thanks to keep posting, really appreciated.
Jeff
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try switching to a different keyboard. maybe a key is stuck or a chip is lodged under a key. are you using a pokeys or keyboard emulator? i had a problem with pokeys doing strange things.
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try switching to a different keyboard. maybe a key is stuck or a chip is lodged under a key. are you using a pokeys or keyboard emulator? i had a problem with pokeys doing strange things.
I could try it, did not think about it.
No Pokeys
Jeff
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After many, many, many hours, I been able to get what I could call a more steady system.
I could keep the CPU usage between 10 and 13 %
But when moving the mouse, they're still spindle speed variation between 100 and 150 RPM
CPU usage rise to 35% when moving mouse but only when Mach3 is running.
No variation of CPU load on the desktop
Mach3 clock is rock steady at 25000.
Have replaced motherboard and put another HHD, format (with no partition) then New Mach3 download and installation.
Jeff
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Still have problem with windows program loading without warning.
Tried another keyboard and another mouse (serial) with no change.
When spindle is running, the start menu is blinking very fast, sometime stays on desktop, loose mouse and keyboard.
I think, I will re-design every thing from the beginning.
Re-wire everything because I don't know what to do and since no body have ever experienced this, (I think) will try to resolve by myself.
This system was working great before, absolutely no flaw and then...
Jeff
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Jeff,
All the probs. you have described could be attributed to severe electrical noise.
Have you perhaps left off an earth connection that was previously there ?
Have you added another connection which could be causing a loop ?
If it was working OK and now it isn't working then you must have done something additional to just changing the motherboard.
Have you checked the bonding of your computer earth and machine earth to your incoming supply earth ?
Have you checked the polarity of your Live / Neutral (or whatever you call the AC supply) is correct ?
(it is not unknown for power company's to rip out earth stakes or earth wires to become disconnected).
Tweakie.
This system was working great before, absolutely no flaw and then...
No help but it reminds me "If it ain't broke...."
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Still have trouble with CPU usage.
Took some instant picture of running process when Mach3 is running and when it is not.
1st picture = with
2nd picture = without
When running a program, CPU is at the top 100%
Done another fresh install with another computer (desktop with case) outside the control box.
Interrupt process is taking more than 50 to 60% of CPU usage.
Jeff
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Just downloaded the same programme you are using to monitor and mine is in line with windows task manager, CPU sits under 1% normally and with mach running and code running its about 3.88% max. The Inteerupts with or without Mach running are <0.01 with the occasional spike to 0.77.
Not sure what is going on in your system and whether its even Mach related but if you uninstall the driver from Device Manager that should let you know if Mach is having an effect.
Hood
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Thanks Hood.
If I split screen and hover the mouse on the desktop, only small variation on the CPU.
If I go to the left part of the screen where Mach3 is open, They're huge pick in the CPU usage.
Man, I did setup 3 motherboards in the control panel and a fourth one as a desktop and can't get a stable system.
Maybe it's related to something I did in a previous life ;D ;D ;D
Jeff
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are you using the same xp installation cd? did you purchase it or download it ? some of the downloades versions install all sorts of crap without you realizing it. i use 1 called microxp. stripped down version is only 80meg.as long as you have a legal lic code i dont see why you could not run it. just dao a search on google.
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I have tried with at least 3 CD of Windows XP, at least one was a downloaded version and 2 was original CD that needed to be activated, which I did with success and all the same result.
Jeff
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Are you using common components in these builds? Such as the same HDD or the same DDR or CPU?
Hood
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No, it was all different board, maybe some memory stick were the same, I don't remember, I have try so many thing.
two different HDD.
I have tried install has a standard PC (F5) but could not boot, computer freeze and had to re-format.
Jeff
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What is your mains electricity like? Something very weird going on and there must be a common denominator , but what is the hard thing to work out :(
Hood
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The computer I use to program the router and other things, is connected to the main circuit and runs great
Jeff
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Ok so lets recap, you have used different HDD, mobo and possibly DDR. You have used different XP discs and it doesnt matter if Mach is running or not. Is that correct?
Did you delete the driver to see if that made a difference?
What about the other hardware in the computer, are you using anything on all of them such as same PSU, same Graphics, same PCI card?
Hood
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I have two different PCI parallel port don't remember brand but they are different. (all drivers have been download from the manufacturer website)
I have remove different driver, one by one to see if it's make any difference but just a bit.
Tried PS2 mouse and USB mouse. PS2 mouse still running even if I turn on spindle, but lost the USB mouse when doing the same thing.
Does not makes a big difference when Mach3 is running or not like pictures posted in a previous post.
Did get another board today, ECS K7S5A pro Rev 5.0, 1Gig or ram and 2600 processor, have downloaded drivers from ECS website and will try to install Windows XP tonight(for me)
That's what I did for all previous motherboard.
But this time, will not install any driver for the moment and test Mach that way, if it work, will not make any change.
Could try to buy a new mouse to get a driver, maybe from logitech, they're no driver for a standard optical mouse, just the windows driver.
I have tried a bunch of graphics card but no change (some ATI )
Still trying but thanks for the help.
Jeff
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Jeff I was meaning the Mach driver, see if uninstalling it from device manager makes a difference.
Hood
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I know you would say that.
Just saw your post and I was in the shop and I did un-install the driver or disabled it and it did not make any difference.
The only thing I could think of is all motherboard are from ECS , all K7 model with different CPU and Graphic card and memory stick and HDD.
I did put another HDD I had with the mobo I received today, format and install Mach3 without any other driver.
CPU get as high as 30 to 40% when running the mouse over the Mach3 windows, tried installing Mach3 V3.042.040 and nothing changed, returned to Mach4 v 3.043.022
Still trying on the system that is hooked up to the router.
When moving the mouse on the desktop, CPU is at 2 to 3%, when moving mouse over mach3 windows, get to 60% CPU usage.
When running to router without the spindle, keep mouse and keyboard, if I turn on the spindle, instantly loose the mouse.
I tried to disable LPT1, PCI parallel port, video driver, USB driver, Sound driver, LAN driver, Modem driver and no change, Enable them all again.
Will remove the VFD from the control box and place it on the back of the Z axis, I have place for that and will hook up low power cable from control box to the VFD instead of High
power cable from control box to the Motor, another test on the go.
Jeff
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Perhaps now would be a good time to replace the computers ATX power supply and check all the connections.
Tweakie.
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I did place another VFD I had on hand on the back of the Z axis rather than in the control panel
Now they're no more interference to the computer.
Been able to do a couple of jobs without loosing the mouse and RPM is steady.
Still get a high CPU usage but if I do not play with the mouse during machining, I will accept that and make some more testing later.
Will remove the other VFD from the control box and verify inside if they're something wrong.
About power supply, I have 3 computer board running right now, each with it's own HHD, power supply, video card, memory and they all have high CPU usage when running mach3.
What version do you use right now, mine is 3.043.022
Jeff
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I did place another VFD I had on hand on the back of the Z axis rather than in the control panel
Now they're no more interference to the computer.
Looks like you have solved the problem then.
Tweakie.