Machsupport Forum
General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: diygranite on March 14, 2011, 01:30:29 AM
-
I have a big 3 axis 7,000 lb circa 1985 bed mill (wish I knew the manufacturer--if you know-tell me) with a Dynapath 10 (the one you cant drip feed long programs to), 10hp 3000rpm spindle, brushed servo dynamic servos with servo dynamic drives and a 12 tool umbrella/arm atc (not working because missing some kind of sensor to detect tool position). I just purchased a galil 1740 for the retrofit project. I assume i need a galil 1900 and scsi100 cable next. I assume i can use a modio to talk to the omron plc of the toolchanger and add another modio for a pendant. I could use the 4th axis for the spindle but wanted to reserve it for future rotary table. Is ther another way to operate the spindle?
The tool changer is missing some kind of sensor above the slitted encoder disk. There is a 8 conducter wire with nowhere to plug it in. Can someone recognise this changer or what might be missing. Tool changer brand is Boston Motion. It has a pneumatic arm and movement. See pictures below (Ill have better ones tomorrow). Also any comments are welcome as I am all new to this.
-
Here is a picture of the mystery machine. With the description above, anybody recognize the manufacturer? Any comments on first post?
Morris
-
Afraid I dont know what it is but looks like a nice mill. What spindle taper does it have?
What command type does the spindle take? I would imagine you could run it fine from the galil as a spindle but dont know too much about the galils I am afraid.
Does the Omron PLC have ModBUS?
Hood
-
Cat40 tooling on 5hp AC spindle using ARNI-889 Toshiba spindle drive 50-4000 rpm (info on board:http://www.redrive.net/product/ARNI-889/ARNI-889-Toshiba-PCB-board.html). The PLC is a SYSMAC S6 (MODEL# 3G2A3-MP523). I dont know if it is modbus (how can you tell? Did they have it in 1985?). Also, x axis is 28" y axis is 13" and z axis is 17". It has limit switches on the z but none on x or y axis (soft limits are used on the dynapath 10).
-
Oh ok, thought maybe it was a newer PLC that had been added. If your Galil has plenty I/O you could probably just work the PLC from it and a macro, if not I think I would go the new PLC route myself.
Dont fancy not having hardware limits, softlimits are OK until something screws up in software and in that situation its nice to have hardware limits that will trip your drives.
Cant really see from the pic of the spindle board what command input it needs.
Hood
-
I guess its an inverter control board. I will research that.
Morris
-
Here is more information from about the same year using the same board.
I guess it is 0-10v inverter with forward/reverse and on/off.
Morris
-
As I said I am not familiar with the Galil but normally you can use a 0 to 10v output for a spindle which does not have to mean you use up an axis.
Hood
-
It is pretty much the same as mine. Mine has a factory 14" riser and doesn't have the full enclosure, but they are the same machine. They were sold here as a Vulcan, but it is Kasahara iron from Japan. NC Electronic Services imported them and probably added the control and tool changer. I think Compumill had some dealings with Kasahara and may have eventually bought them out.
The part you are missing on the tool changer is a four channel photo diode or photo transistor board that provides binary logic for the tool changer. The PLC takes transistor level signals, so it is a very simple circuit. On mine, there was a separate cabinet with some extended IO modules for the PLC. These are all for the tool changer.
I am using a Galil 2280 and use one axis for the spindle. I am using a Siemens PLC and have enough IO between the two to communicate with simple logic. I have two of the Omron PLC's and the programming terminal if you are interested. I originally bought a backup, but then decided to upgrade. The new PLC is programmed for the tool changer, but I haven't tested it yet. If you want to keep the Omron, you should at least pull the program so that you have a backup or the logic if you need to upgrade. There are something like 20 steps to a tool change, so its really not something you want to do from scratch.
-
Also, regarding the inverter, I believe that the ARNI-889A is just the control board. The inverter should be a VT130G1 series, probably a 2055. It was most likely using a 0-10V signal from the Dynapath and the FWD REV lines. I am running my machine on 240 single phase using an oversized Yaskawa inverter. The Toshiba was gone before I got the machine, but I do have the manual.
-
Wow, glad to see there is another one of these. I do have another cabinet with the extra io too. Could you send me a picture of the photo diode part and where it is supposed to be located. Did you download your ladder logic and do you have a copy of it? I guess the only way to get it off the omron plc is with a pro16 programmer. Is that what you have? How far along are you in the retrofit? Did you continue using the servodynamic drives? The servos? Anyways thanks for the response. Hope to hear more.
Morris
-
I kept the Servo Dynamics drives and SEM servos, but I have replaced all of the encoders. Right now, I have the machine about 80% done. The spindle control works fine, I have axis movement under Galil control, and all of the additional functions (coolant, tool release, master control relay, etc) are under control of the Galil + PLC.
There is quite a bit left to do. I have written the new PLC code for the tool changer but not tested it. I bought a touchscreen panel that is working, but needs to be mounted and I also have a pendant to integrate. I am also in the process of mounting limit switches for X & Y for safety and to reference the machine (limit + encoder index homing). Will try to get a picture of the photo transistor boards today. As I recall, it is just 2 pc boards mounted in a housing. Like I said, very simple circuit, but it will be some work to make.
I do have the PLC logic off of mine. Yours is probably very close if not identical. The main reason I changed the PLC is that it would take major programming changes to interface with the Galil as opposed to the Dynapath. I decided that my time was better spent on a more modern, more servicable PLC. The new PLC is a Siemens S7 series, cheap hardware and software off of ebay. The Galil communicates things like spindle direction, coolant requests, and tool numbers to the plc which then drives relays to actually control the machine.
-
I was going to leave the encoders. What are the advantages of changing the encoders? Is it index homing? Which encoders did you settle on?
The omron plc uses parallel bus to communicate with the controller (i can see that would be complicated). What does the siemans use that is easier? is it serial modbus? or is it directly from the galil board? I dont know this stuff very well. Maybe you could share this if you get it working. Need any granite countertops?
I found some pictures of similar machines last night without toolchangers. One has a picture of the original Kasahara logo which probably is difficult to find. The oter is a Vulcan. These come up so rarely so I attached pictures.
-
I replaced the encoders because two failed. I found some with the same mounting pattern so they were a drop-in. My originals were 500 line and I replaced them with 1000 line units. My mill has .200" pitch ball screws, so this puts me at 20000 counts/inch in quadrature.
Attached are a couple of pictures of the opto sensor off of the tool changer. The top board has the IR LEDs and the bottom board is the phototransistors. The top and bottom housings are machined to clear the PC boards and hold everything at the right spacing. Sorry for the poor quality on the pictures, my camera did not seem to be focusing properly. The resistors are 390 ohm, which would be limit diode current to 60ma with 24V supply. It has five pairs of detectors, but the far left one is not used and wasn't even connected on the PC board.
Mike
-
Second pic.
Mike
-
Thanks, I will attempt making one of these and test the system the way it is. I'll measure the slots to get the spacing right. I thought it would be something like this or switches, but could never see one. Could you say where this was mounted over the slotted disk? If facing the machine is 12:00, was it at 3:00 or 6:00? Also, do you remember the m command in the dynapath for the toolchange in case it is different than the manual (I have the dynapath manual)? Since this toolchanger wasnt used by the last owner, he didnt have other information. Thanks
Morris
-
If you draw a line from the center of the carousel to the Z axis screw, the sensor is pretty much on that line. There should be a couple of #8 or 10 threaded holes in the rectangular tubing where it mounted. With the carousel locked, the sensor lines up with the notch in the wheel and will not be over any slots. The sensor tells the next position coming around, which switches on the motor braking and the lock cylinder. The tool number is binary with the outer most slots being the least significant digit. With the carousel locked at position 1, the sensor will be between 1 & 2 on the wheel. The inner slots (5th row) were not used on my machine. I have no idea why they put them in.
I did pull out my wiring diagram and there is another 100 ohm resistor in the supply to the LED. I have attached it in case you don't have it.
I know I have one bad channel on mine, so I'm just going to replace everything. Photosensors don't do well after 25 years and I will use the matching LEDs for whatever phototransistor I pick.
-
That wiring diagram will make it a lot easier. I have no wiring diagrams for the machine at all and some of the (written in) labels are faded as well. Thanks.
Morris
-
We also have one of these machines. We need pictures of the top of the tool changer because ours is not much more than a plate with pins. We are trying to find out what the missing components might be. We would like it to be able to hold a cat 40 tool. Does anyone have any pictures that they could post for us? Thanks
-
There are earlier posts in this topic with pictures. can you post pictures of what you have?
Morris
-
I have taken four pictures. I have attached them. Hopefully they will show you our problem.