Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: kolias on March 07, 2011, 10:39:10 AM
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I’m going step by step to resolve the problem I have with my limit switches
On the diagnostic screen there are four columns of LED’s representing the X, Y, Z, and A axes. I have connected all my limits as before when all was working normal and all limits / home working well and when I trigger manually any limit, the corresponding LED lights up and I get the “limit switch triggered” message.
However no LED lights up under the X column when I trigger the X axis limits although I get the “limit switch triggered” message. When I do that the LED’s light up under the other columns
Even when the CNC is turned OFF I can see on the computer screen all LED’s ON but non under the X axis. Is this normal ????
Also when I trigger the A axis single limit switch, the LED lights up but I get no message “limit switch triggered” neither I have to press the reset button. Is this normal ?????
BTW, A & Y are slaved together
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Attach your xml please.
Hood
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I have verified all limits and home switches and they all working fine
I just like to know if it is normal to have on the diagnostic screen no LED's ON under the X axis
Here is my XML
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Ok first you dont have A axis limits enabled so you will not get any limits working for the A, you have it set as a Home only, so you will only get the home LED working and because it is a Home Switch only you will not get a limit trip..
And yes as you have the X enabled and set to pin 13 you should see the limits for X (m1+, m1-) lighting when you press them. If they are not then it would seem you dont actually have them connected to pin 13 but another pin.
Hood
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Thank you Hood, that provides some light to my puzzle and I will work on that
Would you know why when I press to home the Z axis it did home nicely despite that I dont see any LED's for X on the diagnostic screen?
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Yes, because you would see a LED for the Z and not the X, you have the Z set as pin 11 and X pin 13 so if you home the Z the switch on pin 11 will be hit and the LED for Z will light.
Hood
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Very sorry Hood, I meant the X axis. I can home the X axis nicely and when she goes to the other end (+) she hits the limit and stops
To me it seems that pin 13 is correct but why I dont see the LED on the diagnostic screen I dont understand.
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Might not be, if you press the X switch do you see any of the other LEDs on the diagnostic screen light up?
Hood
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Yes the LED's on the Y, Z and A light up and that is confusing to me
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That to me would suggest that you have all of your limit switches wired into either pin 10, pin 11 or pin 12 and none on pin 13 :)
Press the A and see what lights
Press the Z and see what lights
Press a the Y and see what lights
Hood
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I made a list before for what you are asking and here it is:
Manually triggering any limit on X, the M1 LED lights on Y, Z, A
Manually triggering any limit on Z, the M3 LED lights on Y, Z, A
Manually triggering the limit on A, the M4 Home LED lights on A
Manually triggering any limit on Y, the M2 LED lights on Y, and A
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Can you show me how you have them wired as they are obviously not wired as you have the pins set in Mach.
Hood
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It is difficult to see in the pictures because on the top side of the picture is where I have the cover of the control box and cant take a close up picture from there. Cant remove the cover because a lot of wiring is attached to it.
However I noticed that the X axis is the only one which does not have this 0.1 capacitor, dont know if that makes a difference
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That doest really tel me anything othe than you have wires going into 10,11,12 and 13.
Can you draw out how they are connected?
Hood
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Dont really know how much details you need but here is a simple schematic
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Thats how you have the pins set in Mach but afraid to say I cant see that as being how you have them wired, would seem to me you maybe have them mixed up.
Hood
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Thank you for your time Hood, let me see how I can fix that
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Easy way to test is remove the wires and put an Ohm meter between each red and Gnd in turn and press the switches in turn and see which ones are on the same wires, I suspect you will find they are a bit mixed up.
In reality you can have all X Y and Z Home and Limits wired in series and going into a single pin, you only need the A on a seperate input.
Hood
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I did the wiring verification as you suggested and all is ok, I mean by triggering each limit switch I could see on my meter that this switch belongs to the respective axis and so there is mo mix-up. Also we should not forget that the machine was working before perfectly and I never changed the limit switches since the beginning.
In addition, I used afterwards the “Automated Setup of Inputs” function on the Inputs Signal screen and by pressing each limit the software confirmed that all limits are correct and working for each axis
Furthermore, I just can’t see how the machine would work ok now if the limits were mixed up. I mean I homed the machine ok and took all axes to the end of + and when they hit the limit each axis stopped.
Now why I see no LED’s on the diagnostic screen under the X axis column that’s a mystery and beyond my experience. Perhaps I should re install Mach?
If you can think of anything else you would like me to test, please let me know
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Kolias:
I see you successfully ditched Tweakie and me by starting a new thread. Didn't like our help? ;) :D
Do you have a link to the documentation for the BOB you have all the limit wiring connected to. In particualr the information THEY supplied on how to connect the limit switches to the terminal strip. I'd like to read it.
The only thing I can think of at the moment is you are using the input connections incorrectly.
Sage
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Sage I really appreciated your help and Tweakie but now this became a different subject since the machine works but I just don’t see the LED’s on the diagnostic screen under the X axis
Anyway here is the document and again much appreciated
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Was there any more documentation like a suggested connection diagram? The schematic does not show the terminal strips only little circles showing the signals go to some other point (which is not on the schematic as far as I can see).
Are you saying that everything works ok and the lights all light correctly EXCEPT the only problem is the light does not come on for X on the dianostic screen.
Also please confirm that X is connected to 13 like your scanned diagram.
BTW you can remove those capacitors. Since you are using the inputs with normally closed switches to ground they won't be of much use anyway. I can't tell from your picture. Maybe sometihng is wrong there.
Make sure JP5 is jumpered. That will supply the 5v pullups to all of the inputs.
The simplest way to troubleshoot this would be to remove ALL the wiring from the input connections. And I mean all of it from all of the terminal strips that have anything to do with the inputs and limits.
Then take a single short piece of test wire from ground to ONE of the inputs only and connect it. See if the light comes on for that input and test it on and off and see if it triggers mach properly.
Do this for each input one at a time. See what you get.
I also notice pin 10 is labelled as an E-stop input . Do you have an E-Stop connected somewhere else and is E-stop programmed into Mach?
Sage
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No more documentation came with the BOB, actually the schematic means nothing to me since I cant read it LOL (sorry Sage).
Yes I’m only saying that the ONLY problem I can see is that the LED’s for the X axis on the diagnostic screen do not light up like the X axis does not exist
Yes the X axis is connected to 13 and it is confirmed by the inputs signals screen with the “Automated Setup of Inputs”.
Good idea, I will remove the capacitors (tomorrow) and see if anything changes
I never removed any jumpers from the board since I didn’t have to
ok I can do this test as you say with a piece of test wire but since the power will be on, is it possible to damage the BOB?
That pin 10 is Wrong in the manual. I spent a heck of a time to get the Estop working until I was told by the manufacturer that the Estop should be connected between pin 15 and the GND which is located on the input terminals closest to the parallel port. If you look on the picture of the BOB (magnified to 150%) you will see pin 15, then next to it is a terminal +5V and next to it is GND. That is where I have the Estop and is programmed in Mack and works very well.
off to bed now, we had a big snow storm here today (hopefully the last of the season), spent 2 hrs in traffic just to go 2 blocks away and all this wiring problems I have didn’t help either LOL
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Well afraid I dont read every single post on the forum and memorise it so I did not know your inputs worked fine before and that you had not made any changes. I do remember a post in another thread where you were rewiring limits and probes and all sorts and were having a lot of issues ;)
Do the test as sage says and if that makes all the wrong LEDs light then it would seem your BOB or cable are screwed. I have tested here with your xml in simulation and it checks out fine, simulate X and X Leds work, Simulate Y and....... well you get the idea ;)
Hood
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I dont understand the test Sage wants me to do.
If I remove all the wiring from the input terminals there is nothing connecting the BOB to Mach and with a piece of test wire from GND to each terminal will show nothing on the screen
Do I miss something?
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He is saying disconnect your limits wiring and then look in Mach, you should see all the limits LEDs on diagnostics page lit (or the ones you have set), that is because Mach thinks the switches are triggered. You can then ground 10, 11, 12 and 13 in turn with a piece of wire and each of the groups of LEDs on diagnostics should go out.
Hood
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I didn't know Mach can do this, now I get it
Thanks Hood
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ok ALL the inputs wiring is out.
The power into the control box is OFF
The Mach screen is as before but now the Emergency LED (the last under the X axis column) is ON and blinking
There are no other LED's on the X axis column. The LED's in the Y,Z,A are ON as before
To me there is something wrong with Mach
Should I continue the test with the power to the control box OFF?
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Unplug your parallel port cable from the computer and look at the LEDs again.
Hood
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I unplugged the parallel cable and the screen remained the same as before. I even switched screens but the diagnostic screen remained the same as before (LED's on Y,Z,A and Emergency but non on X)
Then I reboot Mach and when I try to click the flashing reset button a window came up and said ........ would you like to fix this, and I said yes and then went to the diagnostic screen and now there are no LED's there at all
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That is because you let Mach fix it and it set the active state of the limits and E-Stop to active Low, change them back to the way they were.
Which end of the cable did you disconnect? If the computer end then it would seem your parallel port is bad. To test change the port number for port 1 to 0278 and port 2 to 0378 and see what happens
Hood
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I change the active low back (red X for all except the Estop) and now I have LED’s ON in the diagnostic screen for Y,Z,A but non on X
I unplugged the parallel port from the BOB and therefore I did not change the ports as you suggested. Let me know if you want me to do that
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Unplug from the computer and see if the LEDs now light up on X.
If they dont then change the addresses and see what happens.
Hood
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Unplugging the parallel cable from the computer did not change anything
The parallel cable is unplugged now from both the control box and computer
Changed the ports as you said and reboot Mach, now I have no LED's on X and Z. The LED's remained on Y and A
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Can you attach your new xml and I will see if I can find an issue.
Hood
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Sorry wasting your time Hood
Here is the XML
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Ok it seems fine here. This is a pic of what I see when I load to this computer and as yo can see the LEDs match up exactly as you have the switches set in Ports and Pins, Inputs. If you are not seeing that then it would seem your computer is playing up, why I have no idea. Do you have a spare computer you can load Mach and then your xml and see if it looks like my screenshots.
Hood
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Why you say it looks fine Hood? I have the same screens as you have with no LED on X and Z axes and I thought that we were trying to find out why I get no LED under the X axis
I have a laptop and another desktop in my office both with no parallel port. I can load Mach in either of them but I dont see what this will prove.
Another thing came to my mind is that I know when there are no LED ON in the diagnostic screen after you load Mach, all supposed to be fine and that is what I had when all inputs to the BOB were connected.
Anyway tell me what you want me to do and what we are looking for and no problem I will do it
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M1++ is X++ limit, that is shown on LED and in your ports and pins so why do you say you dont have it and at the same time say the screen is the same?
Hood
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Does this make more sense?
Hood
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You are right on Z though, no LEDS and they should all be there but X Y and A are correct.
Will look in a bit and see why no Z.
Hood
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If you put the address back to 378 you should see all the LEDs lit that you have enabled.
Hood
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Koilas:
I'm not sure but you may have gone off the rails again a few posts back.
You said
>> ok ALL the inputs wiring is out.
>>> The power into the control box is OFF
The wiring tests I mentioned and Hood clarified for you must be done WITH THE CONTROL BOX ON.
Basically what you are doing is eliminating the wiring going out to the limit switches and simulating them one at a time right there in the control box.
Obviously the BOB needs to be powered since it's what going to detect the signals for you.
If you get nowhere with your current line of attack, please step back and do the tests I mentioned. You'll have to put all your Mach configuration back the way it was and remove the wiring out to the limit switches first. Then go back to my (and Hood's) previous posts and do those test witht he control box ON !!
(I'm lost now)
Sage
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Could not get to the forum since this morning, too much traffic.....anyway
Hood I didn’t know that M1 is X++
Also on the diagnostic screen there are 4 columns of LED’s (EJogX++, EJogY+, EJogZ+, EJogA+)
I never got any LED under EJogX++ column and I thought that is where all the X axis LED’s are
So what for is the column EJogX++ ???
Hood that last screen you posted looks much better and less confusing than the one I have, I mean is better to see X,Y,Z etc than Motor1 etc.
Since the forum was down this morning I went ahead and connected back all inputs wiring. Then I used the “Automated Inputs Setup” from the inputs screen and it recognized and set up ALL my limits / home switches. Therefore I will say that all my wiring is correct and to confirm that when I reboot Mach, there are no LED’s on in the diagnostic screen.
And as Hood suggested on post #40 the LED’s should be there for the X axis.
Therefore I would say that there is something else wrong and not the wiring. The wiring was all along correct
Sorry Sage but as you can see we had a long session this morning with Hood
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Yes, I see that and if you are still moving forward then that's good. Keep at it.
Sage
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LOL I am confused, do you see the X LED light up when you press the X switch? Y same etc?
Hood
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Oh and to answer your question regarding the Jog, it is if you have External Jog buttons, when you press them the LEDs will light. Now note I say external Jog Buttons. This is not the Keybopard buttons, this is real buttons coming in on Inputs in a similar fashion to your other Inputs (Limits etc) You dont have any external jog buttons so you wont see the LEDs light.
Hood
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Here is one more description of the LED's with changed labels.
Hope it helps,
Russ
:)
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Russ I like that screen, easier to remember. Anyway I can get that for my Mack?
Thanks Hood for the info on the Jog column. And me I thought I had problems because there was no LED on in this column LOL
So here are the latest on limits (The way the inputs are wired now=X+Z on terminal 13, Y on terminal 12, A on terminal 10, zero touch probe on terminal 11, EStop on terminal 15)
When I trigger the X+, M1&M3 LED on Y and A are on
When I trigger the X-, M1&M3 LED on Y and A are on
When I trigger the Z+, M1&M3 LED on Y and A are on
When I trigger the Z-, M1&M3 LED on Y and A are on
When I trigger the Y+, M2 LED on Y and A is on
When I trigger the Y-, M2 LED on Y and A is on
When I trigger the A-, M4 LED on A is on
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Kolias, I think I must speak a different language than you, just cant seem to figure out what you are meaning ;D
If all is working fine for you I think I will bow out gracefully, well as gracefully as an old bald fat bas%$rd can ;)
Hood
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Kolias:
Not sure why you didn't report your findings with the updated LED list it would have saved me some time flipping back and forth between two diagrams on two diferent pages BUT:
It looks to me like everything is working ok with X Y and Z = correct?
That's assuming the LED's go out when you are NOT pushing the switches.
The only thing that seems odd now is that whatever you call "A" is always on - correct?
What is "A" for you anyway? For me it's a rotory table.
Sage
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Don’t bow out gracefully yet Hood, When I say all is fine that doesn’t mean all is fine because I don’t really know what fine is. Yes the machine SEEMS to work fine but there could be things which I’m not aware.
On your previous post you asked: “LOL I am confused, do you see the X LED light up when you press the X switch? Y same etc?”
And my answer was (I will put it a bit differently)
I have changed the inputs just to make wiring easier. X+Z on terminal 13, Y on terminal 12, A on terminal 10, zero touch probe on terminal 11, EStop on terminal 15. So now when I trigger each limit switch I get the following LED light up
Trigger the X+, M1&M3 LED lights up on Y and A columns
Trigger the X-, M1&M3 LED lights up on Y and A columns
Trigger the Z+, M1&M3 LED lights up Y and A columns
Trigger the Z-, M1&M3 LED lights up on Y and A columns
Trigger the Y+, M2 LED lights up on Y and A columns
Trigger the Y-, M2 LED lights up on Y and A columns
Trigger the A-, M4 LED lights up on A column
Is this better?
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Ok there is no such thing as M1 and M3 on Y and A columns
M1 is X axis switches and there are three M1's.
M1++ is X+ Limit
M1-- is X- Limit
M1 Home is X Home
Same for the rest, ie M2 is Y, M3 is Z, M4 is A
I think I half know what you are meaning but to make sure attach the latest xml, I will simulate your switches and post screenshots of what you should see.
Hood
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This is just the stock standard Mach screen, all I changed is the labels seen in the other post.
Put it in your Mach3 folder.
Open Mach, go to View/Load Screens and find it, then load it.
It has a different name so you can always go back to your original if necessary.
Good luck,
Russ
Look at the LED diagram very closely ... the columns are not labeled, those are just the other inputs for external jogging, but I'm guessing that's what you mean.
When you say "Trigger the X+, M1&M3 LED lights up on Y and A columns" there are 3 M1 led's and 3 M3 led's ...6 total.
You might just list the individual LED"s that light when you hit a switch. Each one has it's own label and this would probably be more understandable.
Russ
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Ok I see now where you are getting confused, it is because the Jog button LEDs are above the Limit and home switch LEDs and you are thinking the columns are all X and Y and Z etc. That is not the case, all LEDs relate to their individual function and are not in columns of X Y Z etc.
Hood
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LOL I see Russ has also worked out what you are thinking ;D
Hood
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Here is the Last XML
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Kolias:
I think I know what your problem is.
This diagnostic screen is not a series COLUMNS.
Every LED on the screen is unique and correlates to a limit switch. Don't try to interpret the LED's based on what might be at the top of the column.
Each and every switch has an LED. If you activate the switch the corresponding LED (ONLY ONE) will light.
It has it's own name it's not sometihng youhave to go across a column and down a row to figure out
Look athe updated diagram Hood and Overloaded posted for you. It shows you which leds's are for what switch.
X+ has a LED and Z+ has a LED. You have them connected together on the same input so they will BOTH light up when you press the switch.
It looks to me like everything is ok except the A which I asked you a question about.
I can see someone is posting while I type so you may be answering my question
Sage
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Too FUNNY :D
We all figured out what his problem was at the same time (and all posted at the same time)
Now all we can hope is that Kolias can figure it out.
:D :D :D :D :D
Sage
BTW Hood and Overloaded. What do you think of "A" input. I think there is still a problem there.
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When you press any or all of the switches on X axis or Z Axis you will see the first screenshot.
When you press any of the switches on the Y you will see the second screenshot
When you press the A switch you will see the last screenshot.
Hood
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Sorry second screenshot is wrong, I forgot to change the active state on the Z Home, so second screenshot should not have the M3 Home lit.
Hood
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That is correct Hood,
Thank you all
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It seems to me you have indicated that A is on all the time. Is there still a problem there?
What is A for you anyway?
It's a rotory table for me. What do you do with it?
Sage
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:)
Hood
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Ahhh - forget my last post . If it works leave it alone I always say. 8)
Sage
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It seems to me you have indicated that A is on all the time. Is there still a problem there?
What is A for you anyway?
It's a rotory table for me. What do you do with it?
Sage
Sorry Sage I thought I did reply
No, A is not all the time
A is my second motor on the Y axis. The gantry is driven by two motors, one per side (Y motor on one side, A motor on the other side)
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So everything is good then?
Now go an cut wood.
;D
Sage
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This is just the stock standard Mach screen, all I changed is the labels seen in the other post.
Put it in your Mach3 folder.
Open Mach, go to View/Load Screens and find it, then load it.
It has a different name so you can always go back to your original if necessary.
Good luck,
Russ
I would love to change my labels on the diagnostic screen like you did Russ in your previous post. I find mine (M1, M2 etc.) confusing
When I go to my View / Load Screens, there is only a 1024.set file available which brings the same screen I have on Mach
When you get some time, pls let me know in more details how you changed the labels
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Download the screenset Russ attached and place it in the main Mach 3 folder. Open Mach then View menu then Load screens and choose the 1024Modified.set
Hood
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I didn't see the file Russ attached on post 53
Now I just did it AND LIFE WILL BE LESS CONFUSING
Hood you are a life saver, thanks
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Thing is when you start using the machine you will probably never even look at the LEDs, if you hit a limit a look at the table will tell you as much ;)
Oh well I better get back to trying to weld alu in the gale :(
Hood
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You are right......
Working on Aluminum, did you know about this?
http://www.alumiweld.com/
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Yes, have seen that stuff before, never used it but it should be fine for small DIY repairs but cant see how it is really welding if the parent metal doesnt get melted, more brazing I would say.
Regardless it would get kind of expensive and extremely slow, to weld the stuff I do, with that method, imagine how much of it and how long it would take to join all this stuff together ;D
Hood
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Ooooooooooo ..... :o
I'd tie that "swarf napping" dog to that pile !
Probably close to the cost of platinum there. :)
Are you doing railings and such .... or plumbing ?
Miggin' in the wind. Been there, what a PITA that is. Especially with aluminum.
Russ
:)
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Ha ha well its £5000 plus ($8000 approx) for that lot, thankfully I got paid for it a few days after it arrived.
Making up wash beds and drums for bag nets for a Salmon Fisheries. www.usansalmon.com The nets need cleaned regularly so get brought ashore and they will pull them across these beds and power wash then gradually roll them onto drums, once finished the full drum will be taken up to the drying green and hung up to dry. You will see pics in the above link of the nets in the gallery and think the vid has the beds they use at the moment. The drums will be hydraulic driven now they just haul them into big bins manually.
Pic attached of what I have managed so far but the wind is killing me :( Notice the dog looking at the stone expecting me to throw it for him.
Hood
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I think he's a herding dog. Get him a few more rocks and he'll keep himself busy rounding them up ;D
Poor dog. He'd probably wait all day just like that waiting for you to throw it too right ?
Sage
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LOL, well he used to chase them all day long and still be ready for more but now he is 14, a few times and he needs to lie down :D
Hood
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That's a lot of Aluminum Hood, thought you only had a couple of pieces.........
Lovely dog and good dogs, I have a Shih-Tzu 7 years old
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Got the makings of an 8 x 4 woodworking router table there Hood, any going spare ? ;D
Tweakie.
btw. looks like man and dog will be working inside for a bit, heavy snow forecast for tonight.
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Ha ha think it would be a bit sloppy for a router and no, none going spare, think I will have to get more :D
Thanks for cheering me up, just back from the welding supplies and the wind is screaming and rain blowing through :(
Should manage to do some of it inside though as I will start on the drums frame.
Hood