Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: kolias on March 03, 2011, 01:39:39 PM
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I want to set up an auto zero plate for my Z axis as per attached doc. which I got it from the web some time ago. My questions:
1. Is the VB script correct (I will change the plate thickness to mine which is Aluminum 0.125””
2. I dont have any more outputs from my BOB to get the +5V. They all are taken for my limit/home switch. Can I use one of them since they will never be working together at the same time?
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5v supply can be used by more than one function, its the input that needs to be seperate.
Hood
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Thank you Hood
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I made the connections for the auto zero of my Z axis but it doesn’t work. When I press the Auto Tool Zero button on Mach I hear a clack clack on the Z axis and nothing moves.
Is the attached VB script good for all machines. The 0.125 on the script is the thickness of my touch plate.
I also enable the probe on the input signals screen with port 1 and pin 10 (where I connected the Red), and clicked the active low.
Is it perhaps because I have these capacitors on my limit / home switches that does not allow the auto zero to work?
What am I doing wrong?
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Try zeroing your Z axis DRO first.
Tweakie.
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Never though about it, I will do it right now and post back
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My machine was off so I turn it on and all axes were at 0
I clicked the Auto Zero Tool and it said
"Auto Zeroing........" and after a few seconds it said
"Probe Ignore, Activated at call for probe"
I moved the Z axis a bit and tried again but got the same message
So now what?
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Just as an experiment please try this code
DoOemButton (1010)
Code "(Setting Tool Zero)"
While IsMoving ()
Wend
If GetOemLED (825) = 0 Then
Code "G90 G31 Z-3 F20" & ProbeFeed
While IsMoving ()
Wend
If GetOemLED (825) = True Then
End If
ProbePos = GetVar (2002)
Code "G0 Z" & ProbePos
While IsMoving ()
Wend
Call SetDRO (2, 0.125)
Code "G0 Z1"
While IsMoving ()
Wend
End If
Tweakie.
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I installed the new code and now it says
"Setting Auto Tool Zero"
Nothing happens but now I dont get that clack...clack noise from the Z axis
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Can you go to the Diagnostics screen and check that Digitize LED is off. Now short touch plate to tool (probe) and check Digitize LED comes on.
Tweakie.
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The Digitize LED is ON
What you want me to do?
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Thats your problem. (it should be off)
You have a short circuit between your pin 10 and ground.
Tweakie,
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ok it will take me some time to fix this; my computer & screen sits on top of my control box and to open the box I have to disconnect / remove the computer.
I will check the connections and when I will try again.
Do I leave the code you provided or use the original code
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I dont see any problem on the connections but between the GND and pin 10 I have this capacitor I was told to put
How about if I change the active low status?
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If you touch the plate and the LED goes out then active state is wrong.
Hood
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If you touch the plate and the LED goes out then active state is wrong.
Hood
I did touch the plate with the alligator clip but the LED stayed ON
Also checking the volts between the plate and alligator clip is 0
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How do you have it wired?
Hood
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One end of the Red wire is connected to the 1/8 aluminum plate and the other end is connected to pin 10 on the BOB
One end of the black wire is connected to the alligator clip and the other end is connected to the GND on the BOB
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Is your Alu plate touching the table?
Hood
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Try connecting one clip directly to the tool and the other to the thickness plate
If your machine is like mine, spindle is electrically isolated (don't know why, depend on the mechanic)
One end of wire to the cutter, the other to the ground from the BOB
The other wire, one end to the thickness plate, other end to input pin of the BOB
Be sure that the input pin is configured in port and pin
Jeff
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Yes the Alu plate is touching the table and the table top is wood and have on top a piece of MDF and the Al plate sits on top of the MDF
Jeff I have it like that but dont know if my spindle (Bosch Colt) is isolated or not
I attach pic of my Alu plate
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Well some good news..........
I did switch the red wire to pin 13 which does not have capacitor connected, changed the pin number on the input pins screen but again no change and so my theory about the capacitor been the culprit is wrong
Then decided something else; on the inputs screen I switch the probe to Active High (removed the green tick) and it works !!! but not properly.
Like when I click the button to auto zero, the Z starts to decent slowly and when it hits the plate I hear a grinding noise and I pressed the E-Stop because I thought she was going to damage the bit.
So at least now I know that the wiring works but don’t know what to do next
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The wiring does NOT work.If you touch the clip to the plate, the LED needs to light up. If it doesn't, the tool will try to go through the plate. You need to get the digitize input to work correctly before you can run the auto zero code, or you could cause some damage.
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Gerry what I meant by the wiring is working I meant that at least I have some voltage there because before I was getting nothing and I thought that perhaps my wiring is broken somewhere
So what I have to do to get the digitze input to work?
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Kolias:
Take Ger21's advice and don't run the VB code any more until you get the input working. You're just asking for a broken tool or machine damage.
Simply put , the light should be normally off and if you touch the clip lead to the plate you should see the light go on. It should be off otherwise.
Did you install the pull-up resistor between pin10 (or whatever your using) and 5v?
Some BOB's need this resistor. The resistor should be something like 1k.
With the resistor in place you have a setup for active LOW to trigger the input. Make the settings in the software to match active LOW. If making and breaking the connection between the clip and the plate has no effect after that then something is not working with the input you are using. Please report your findings.
BTW you can't use the bare aluminum plate on the metal table or piece of work in the milling machine. Usually the plate is a piece of PC board (copper plate insulated from the table or work). The aluminum plate would be ok for a router I guess where you are always placing it on wood.
When you get that working you should get the code from CNC zone forum subject "aussie tool setter" where it was developed. Here is a link to some code. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc_wood_router_project_log/36099-another_aussie_auto_tool_zero-35.html
You'll need to enter the thickness of your plate in inches. The code is metric. It's well described where to make the change.
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Thank you Sage
No, I don’t intend to use the VB code until I find out what is wrong.
My limit switches are connected to the same points where I connect the zero plate and all my limits are working. Here is what the manual of my BOB says:
“The +5VDC logic supply rail connects to the limit switch and e-stop inputs through a jumper connected 1K pull-up resistor network. The pullup resistors are needed in most cases when switching the logic inputs through physical switches. Disconnect JP5 if you do not need the pullups”
So I think the resistor is there since my limits are working
Is it possible that my problem is the 1/8” thick aluminum plate I use?
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Re-read my previouis post for more information. I was editing more into it when you posted.
What could possibly be wrong with an aluminum plate pray-tell?? :-\
Are your limit switches N.O. or Normally closed? It could be they are normally closed and pulling the input low (shorted to ground). Have a look at the activation state of the limit switches in the software. If they are set to active HIGH then they are normally closed switches and are pulling the input to ground. If so you won't be able to use that input (unless you re-wire the limits).
You should also be able to see the light go on and off when you activate the limits.
The VB code in your doc file looks too simple to do the job, but I'm no expert. Try the one Hodd posted and/or the one I linked to.
If the light works on the limit switches then try running the VB code and trigger one of your limits instead of using the plate and clip. This will tell you if the code is reading the input properly.
Sage
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BTW.
I'm not sure using the same inputs as the limits is going to work in any case. I'm not sure if the limits have priority over the Zero setting code. If the tool zero and a limit are triggered at the same time (since they are the same in your wiring) which one wins? Perhaps the limits are not payed any attention while the VB code is running I don't know.
At best this would be a race condition. Sometihng best avoided. Is there another input you could use. Perhaps a home switch input.
Ps> It was Tweakie that posted some VB code for you Not Hood. Sorry.
Sage
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Sage I think now we are getting somewhere
My limit switches are all NC and on the inputs screen I have ticked the the Active Low for all of them (The mark it is Green). The LED on the diagnostic screen is OFF for all of them and when I manually press the switch the light goes ON.
What I can do is to disconnect all the limits and connect only the plate to see if the light works as you say. Then if it works I can switch the wiring on limits to NO and change the input on the screen (remove the Green tick and it will be Red)
Does the above sound good? Would the limits work ok after I do that work?
I can aslo change the VB code to the one provided earlier by Tweakie
I dont think there will be a case where the limits and zero touch plate will work at the same time. I mean I only set the zero plate at the begining of a cut and thats it. There are no other inputs on my BOB
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Can you trace and describe the wiring of your limit switches. I can't see how you can have NC switches AND have active LOW.
Usually you would have NO switches, the input would be pulled high by the resistor and the switch when activated would close and pull the input LOW (to ground).
Are you using an input for each limit? (because you can hook them all together on one input and free up at least 2 inputs).
You are not understanding what I mean about the limts and the zero setter being used at the same time.
The two are in conflict. The way you plan to use them they are ONE IN THE SAME. If you are using the zero setter and the clip touches the plate then you are triggering LIMIT and ZERO at the same time. Mach may pay attention to the LIMIT condition and shut down any further movement of the Z-axis and cancel or at best screw up your zero setting.
Get the idea??
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Give me 5 minutes to get your answers
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Take the rest of the night. Not sure where you are but I'm going to bed.
While your at it make a drawing of what you have for the limits. Where the wire starts, check the status of the switch (NO or NC) and where it goes to and any other details.
If you have a meter measure the voltage to ground on the limit switch wire when it's sitting idle (switches NOT activated).
Later
Sage
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All my limits have contacts for NO, NC & COM and I have wire them between NC and COM. As you can see on the attached BOB, the lowest terminal is the GND and I have connected there all the black wires from the limits. Then on terminal 10 I have the red for the Y axis home & limit switches, on the 11 I have the red from the A axis, on the 12 I have the red from the Z axis and on the 13 I have the red from the X axis. The attached drawing shows how my limits are wired but on this drawing the terminal numbers for each axis are wrong, for some reason I wired them as I describe above
My Inputs screen is as per attached picture. Just to show you the Active Low status
I can put the X axis together with the Z to terminal 12 and thus free up the terminal 13 for the touch plate.
I now get what you mean about the limits and zero setter being used at the same time and I agree.
Sorry but I cant grasp what the active low / high means but if you agree with the above I can put the zero plate on terminal 13 ALONE.
Does it matter if the ground (Black wire) will be together with all black wires from the limits?
I measured the volts between ground and each limit while limits not active and it is 0 volts in all.
Thanks for your time
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I'll think about it some more in my sleep.
Active LOW means that the LIMIT condition will be triggered when Mach sees a LOW (ground) on the input (i.e. the condition is ACTIVE when the signal goes LOW)
It baffles me how this is working now if ,as you say, you have NC switches. If this is ture then all the inputs are LOW already and that should be triggering all the limits. The lights would be on for them in the diagnostics screen.
Are you sure these are not NO switches. You can test this by pulling the wires off of one of the switches and use an ohmmeter across the connection on the switch from where the wires came. If you measure a short (0 ohms) then you are correct. If there is an open circuit (no meter reaction) then they are in fact NO.
Let me think on it. There is no need to use more than one input for all of the limits and even the home switches, freeing up a lot of inputs. What you do is wire them all in series.
From the BOB input to a switch, from that switch, to the next switch, from that switch to the next etc. etc and finally back to ground on the BOB. The switches have to be all N.C. so the signal can be activated by any one of the switches going open. The setting would be set for ACTIVE HIGH. (the SIGNAL is normally low and is ACTIVATED when it goes HIGH). The high comes from the pull up resistor when the line is no longer pulled low by the switch string.
Sage
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Nicolas,
For your probe to work you need a pin that is not being used for anything else.
Connect your X limit switches and Z limit switches in series to pin 11 this will leave pin 10 free.
Now connect your probe to pin 10.
Try that and check if it then works as you would expect it to (I think you will need to slow your probing feedrate as F20 seems a bit fast to me) it would also be a good idea to replace the cutting tool with a piece of metal rod (saves damaging the expensive tool if it does not work correctly).
Tweakie.
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Kolias:
Tweakie is correct. I got onto a bit of a tangent trying to figure out what you have there. As I also mentioned I don't think it's going to work having the plate and your limits on the same input anyway, so while you're playing with wiring you might as well start now to re-wire things to free up an input.
Having said that you still need to understand the way the switches are actually wired and the mach settings to fully undestand the ACTIVE LOW or ACTIVE HIGH logic.
It may be that the BOB is inverting the sense of the actual switch action making it necessary to set the reverse logic in the software. (is that possible ??) This will make it doubly confusing.
Sage
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First I checked my limit switches with my meter and in the NC position that they all are wired I get continuity and when I press the switch lever I get no continuity.
The I switch the zero plate to terminal 13 and I removed the Z axis wire from there and put it together with the X axis wire to terminal 12
Now the digitize LED on the diagnostic screen is OFF and when I touch the plate with the alligator clip the LED comes on.
So far looks ok BUT...... on the inputs screen all active low ticks are red except for the probe which is green. The EStop and the Y /A axis limits when I press the lever on the limit switch are working, I mean I get the message that limit is triggered. But the X / Z limits are not working, when I press the lever on them I get no message like nothing happened.
On the diagnostic screen all LED’s are off.
Another strange thing is that the desktop I use for the CNC is not connected to the web and so I copy the XML file and transfer it to my office laptop to send it to you but when I replaced the existing XML with the one from the desktop Mack changed all the active low red ticks with green ticks. Dont know why
I liked the idea from Tweakie and I removed the bit I had and replaced with some 12 & 10 gauge copper wires I had after I cut them to length as per attached photo.
So now it looks like the zero plate will work but why the X & Z limits dont work. Maybe they dont like been together, maybe the 0.1uF capacitor doesn’t like to have to limits on the same terminal?
I’m waiting for some instructions
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You have incorrectly connected the two sets of limit switches in parallel.
Connect them in series.
GND-----switch----switch----switch----switch----PIN 11
Tweakie.
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Thank you Tweakie, I'm going to do that now and post back
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Tweakie:
Boy I,m glad you seem to have a clue what he's doing. He's digging into too many things at once for me to keep track.
Kolias:
They key to good troubleshooting is to NOT introduce too many changes at once. I'm not sure what happened with the XML thing but you need to start over, think about what you need, for each input idividually and together an make it so. One small step at a time.
Im thoroughly confused now.
I'll try to digest what you've done and see if I can help further.
Sage
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Sage I'm not confused and I do one thing at a time. Lets forget about the XML, I was only trying to send you this file in case you need it but perhaps my 2 computers perhaps did whatever they did, forget about this
Tweakie re wiring the X & Z limits is kind confusing for me, is the attached file about re wiring the limits ok?
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Tweakie:
It might be expediant to draw a complete connection drawing like you just did for ALL the inputs along with the settings for mach. Where you have the word "Switch" insert "X-limit" "Y-limit" etc. etc.
Sage
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Unfortunalty the XML is key to the signals getting to mach properly. If it changed then you'll need to put it back the way it NEEDS to be to work for each input.
Sage
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No, good try but not right. See diagram.
Tweakie.
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Thanks Tweakie I will do that, lots of work, perhaps 1/2 hour
Sage, the XML in my CNC computer did not change
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Good: Continue on. Perhaps it would save you some time if you made a diagram FIRST and post it here on what you plan to do. Basically like Tweakie's diagram but label the switches (blue boxes.) for ALL your switches AND the touch plate. No sense doing it all over later.
Sage
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Nicolas,
Just to be sure I have altered your diagram to reflect the same series connection of the switches although I am sure that you know what to do now anyway.
Tweakie.
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Thats better because I had problem figuring how to do the wiring on the last switch of each axis
Let me see if that makes sense to me physically
Sage I will make a schematic as soon as I know how to do the wiring
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Nicolas,
I am sure you will figure out the way to do it.
I'm off home now, I will check on your progress on Monday.
Tweakie.
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Nicolas:
See if this makes sense to you. There is more than one way to do this. I think I understand what inputs you have available.
This should work for you. It's not much different that what you started with. All the switches a NORALLY CLOSED.
It just re-organizes it a bit to free up input 13.
The A-home signal could also be put in the series string with the rest of them freeing up input 12 as well.
But it's a bit more logical to have it separate.
All the grounds can be from thesame terminal. I just show them separate so the diagram doesn't get too messy.
You'll need to do the programming in MAch to have all the limts set up for pin 13and A-home on 12. Set them all for ACTIVE HIGH.
test them all on the diagnostics screen. The lights should be normally OFF and come on when you activate any switch.
Got to go out for a while. Hope you can figre this out.
Sage
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Thank you Sage for your time to prepare the schematic but you guys are working from the control box to the limits which is easy if I was starting my wiring from scratch. But this is not the case.....
It took me some time but had to figure out a way to do minimum wiring changes because all wiring is permanent attached to the machine. Finally I did it as per attached schematic and I’m happy now.
All limits are working fine and the touch plate also works fine. I test it and she went down and soon she touched the plate she went up 1”, wonderful
The only thing I don’t understand is that on the inputs screen, all limit switches are active high (I mean the box is NOT ticked and remains red) but the Probe and the ESTOP are active low (the box is ticked and is green). Don’t know the meaning of that but I assume it is ok because everything is working.
Also on the diagnostic screen there are no LED’s on and when I touch the alligator clip to the touch plate the Digitize LED comes on. The same for all limits when I manually close the switch the LED comes on and the reset button bibs on.
Thank you all for your help. if I knew that I would have gone thru all this trouble perhaps I wouldn’t have bother with the touch plate LOL, but in the end I’m very happy thanks to all of you.
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Well I thought I was all done but I was wrong
In order to have the gantry squared with the home switches, I need to have the Y and A switches on separate terminals in the BOB.
Based on the schematic I provided just before this post, is there any way I can do that within the control box or by switching the wires on each limit switch?
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Very sorry, forget about my last post.
I think I got it and I will do the change tomorrow
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Good. I hope it all works out.
I'm curious what VB script (program) you finally used. The one in your instructions, the One Tweakie posted or the one I linked to.??
If you haven't already, you might want to use the one I linked to (it's halfway down the page). A lot of issues were found and corrected with some of the simpler programs. I found a bug the hard way in that if you happened to be in G91 mode (incremental mode) when you run one of the early tool zero programs the tool would jam itself into the table. That problem was corrected and so were quite a few others. Just remember the one I linked to has it's plate thickness and return measurement in millimeters. Tha't easily changed. All of the development on the auto zero system was done by the gentleman on CNC zone. He frequents that forum and answers questions for people regularly.
Sage
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Also. If it's working that's good. TO explaing whay the settings need to be apparently reversed - It may be that your BOB has some logic in the line which reverses the level of the signals. Perhaps an optical isolator or a transistor switch or something. That's not very nice of the manufacturer to throw that curve at you but I guess it's something you'll just have to remember. Keep good notes and diagrams. Trust me, in a couple of months when you forget everything and you have problems, a good record of how it's all supposed to be is priceless.
Sage
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Glad to hear that you got it sorted Nicolas.
What are you going to make with this machine ? Don't forget to post some pictures of your work.
Tweakie.
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Today I will put back the wiring for the Y & A as it was and install them on separate terminals so I can have my gantry squared when I want and then I will revise the wiring on X & Z the same way I did for the Y & A. Hopefully no more wiring changes are needed.
Sage I used the original script I posted here at the beginning of this thread. Sorry I’m an old timer and millimetres are like Chinese to me LOL. However I kept the one Tweakie posted here and one day I may try that one. I try to keep good records of all the work I’m doing.
I’m only doing hobby work Tweakie and I plant to make the bearings housing for this machine out of a 3ft long aluminum bar I got 1" thick by 2" wide (now they are plywood) and then make the NEMA 23 motor supports out of a 4ft long aluminum bar I got 1/2" thick by 3" wide. After that some engraving or mechanical parts for my next machine. This is my 2nd CNC I built in the last two years and my next one I would like to do it with 8020 aluminum members.
I have posted a video for my present CNC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJvCtoMv814
On the video she runs the “break in code” I got from this forum and she runs at about 100 IPM. This is the first run of the machine and you will notice a clicking sound in the background which now is fixed (misaligned anti backlash nut on the X axis)
Thanks again
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Very nice video Nicolas - I like to tool store on the rear of the X Axis :D
The Probing script I posted was only for trial use as it operates in a different way to the one you were already using and was intended just to try and identify the problem.
As Sage mentioned, the auto tool probing scripts have advanced as Mach revisions have occurred so the one you currently have may not be the most reliable - you may want to update this at a later stage.
Good fortune with machining aluminium - a router is not really a suitable tool compared with a mill when it comes to metals (it's a rigidity issue as well as coolant and chip clearance) but nonetheless it still has to be tried.
Tweakie.
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If the code you have works for you that's good. I'm not familiar with the VB code programming too much.
Just be aware that if it's like some of the earlier codes, If you should ever use G91 mode somewhere in your milling operation and leave it there, when you do a tool zero setting it might try to put the tool through the table. Can't say for sure.
The newer programs save current settings, do the tool setting with the correct parameters and then put the old ones back.
Sage
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If you use more than one tool a lot, then you might want to consider using the two plate zeroing system, where one plate is fixed, to give you a reference position. This allows zeroing after a tool change to be fully automatic. I've incorporated it into my 2010 Screen. It works in both inches and mm's, and has a ton of safety checks built in to try to prevent the user from doing any damage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7np99wSr9c8
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My wiring problems came back LOL, had not a good luck this morning.......
First I think that is an easy one; I put the wiring on the Y & A axes as before and the Y limits (Home & +) works fine – when I trigger the lever the LED comes on on the diagnostic screen and I hear a bib but on the A axis the LED comes on but I hear no bib. Perhaps because A is slaved to Y ?
Now the big problem is the X & Z axes, cant get the limits to work. First I did the same canges as I did yesterday on the Y & A and it did not work ( I connected inside the control box the red from X to black from Z)
Then I connected the red from Z to black from X and again did not work. What puzzles me more is that on the diagnostic screen I see the following LED ON.
First I see no LED under the X axis no matter what and I find this strange
When I manually activate any limit on X or Z I see the following LED all together
Under Y axis M1++Limit, M3++Limit
Under Z axis M1--Limit, M3—Limit
Under A axis M1 Home, M3 Home
When I turn off the power to the control box I see on the diagnostic screen the following LED
X No LED
Y M1++Limit, M2++Limit, M3++Limit
Z M1—Limit, M3—Limit
A M1 Home, M2 Home, M3 Home, M4 Home
I know about your 2010 screen Gerry and I will investigate about the VB script when I finish my wiring problems
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Are your Y, Z, and A all on the same pin?
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No
A=Pin 10
Y=Pin 11
X & Z=Pin12
Zero Touch Plate=Pin 13
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It sounds like you have some serious wiring issues then. Or, your pin assignments are wrong.
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Pin assignments are correct, so I got to work on the wiring to find out what I did wrong