Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: flyingpickles on March 02, 2011, 10:42:02 AM
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I wonder if there is no basic beginner's guide on how to troubleshoot Mach3 when you try to get five stepper motors to function. I have read all Mach3Mill Install and Config Guide, and the data sheet that came with stepper motor control board. If I pull out the 25-pin cable to the card and control the motors with 15-pin remote control the engines behaves as they should. If I put in 25-pin cable goes axis X in the same direction regardless of whether I press the x + or x- and Z do not want to move at all. If I try to jog the motors in Mach3 so all stand still until you press X + then A is able to rotate until you press X- then all motors are dead again. It all seems weird but I have set all the ports and pins as the manual says. I do not know where to begin to troubleshoot please help me!
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Sounds like you have the wrong pin numbers set for your motors, have you got any documentation on your drives that you can link to?
Hood
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Hello this is a link to the place I bought it from: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/201108/210082157-424425585/EMS-FreeShip-Complete-CNC-Kit-5-axis-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Power-Supply-Stepper-Motor-5-Digital.html
and below is some info about the pins but in the manual there is a screen dump which pin number you shall enter in ports and pins and it says: X: step:2 dir 14 y: 1 , 4 Z 3, 7 A 5, 8 B 6,9
P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 P8 P9 P10 P11 P12 P13 P14 P15 P16 P17 P18 P19 P20 P21 P22 P23 P24 P25
正 地 DA+ DA- DB+ DB- CA+ CA- CB+ CB- ZA+ ZA- ZB+ ZB- YA+ YA- YB+ YB- XA+ XA- XB+ XB- MO
- GND MO
+
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If you attach your xml I can check your config and see if it ties in with the documents.
Hood
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And I have also filmed how the motors are acting check this link out if you want to see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hUGnM-NUB0
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I didn't get any xml-file with the board and I have search for .xml-files in the mach3 directory and I have checkt if I can export xml-settings but I didn't find anything. So I guess I wonder what I shall do :)
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Sorry I find the.xml file, I attach it...
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Ok when you open Mach at the lower right of the screen you will see the name of the profile you are using. Look in the Mach3 folder for a xml file with that name, you may have to change windows file options to show the xml extension as it may be hidden if its a known windows file type.
Hood
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Ok use the additional options button on the reply page to attach. You may have to copy it to your desktop first and rename it so that the forum will accept it.
Hood
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Ok here I hope it comes...
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Now when I know how to atach stuff I can try to atach the doc with info about the card and so
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Ok your xml is totally different from that document, I am heading home now but will be online again in an hour or two and will see if I can set up a xml for you to try.
Hood
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Thanks, thats very kind of you!
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OK give this a try, just save it to your Mach3 folder and then start Mach via the loader and choose the 5Axis profile.
Hood
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Hello thanks for the try but I am afraid the motors and mach3 act exactly like it did before. I see that the new xml-file is like tree times bigger than the first one but I don't see any changes in the settings, what did you change?
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I changed the pin asignments for the X, Y Z A and B axis for bothe Step and Dir.
When you load that xml do you see the name 5Axis down in the lower right of the screen/
Hood
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Yes
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That is strange that it acts exactly the same, will look at the doc again and see if I can find anything.
Hood
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Did you change the settings in port and pins / motor outputs?
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Because this settings are the same as in the xml-file I send to you, so maybe thats the reason.
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Hang on, maybe I attached the wrong xml, will check again and see.
Hood
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Ok the xml you attached had the pins set as in the first pic, I changed them to what is in the second pic.
Hood
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Yes thats right, in the hurry I took the wrong xml-file when I send it to you the first time, however when I load the one I sended to you the motors are completely dead but the one I got from you is the same as the one I used when I described how the motors act.
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Can it be something with the switches on the board? The blue with six switches on?
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I am not sure what these switches are for, I am thinking they are for possibly setting the microstepping of the drives and if thats the case then no it wouldnt have such an effect. If however they change mode from CW/CCW to Step/Dir then yes it could.
Hood
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In this doc you can read what the dip-switches do
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Well that document seems to show totally different pins for step and dir,try this xml and see if your X Y and Z work correctly, if they do then we can try and get the others moving.
The dip switches will not have any real affect for the moment, they will alter things but will not stop your motors turning.
Hood
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This xml was a lot better, this is the status right now: X= perfect, Y= works in both direction while jogging it but very slow, Z = perfect, 4 or A is rotating nice but just cv independent if I press 4+ or 4- on the jogging panel, B is dead (in motor tuning) but as I sad its a lot better :D
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Ok we just have to figure out which pins are for A and B axis.
Try this XML and see if A also works, if not describe what it does.
Hood
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It was exactly the same, but I wonder way the B axis is "redcrossed" in motor outputs" I have tried to make it green but B is still dead
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I am trying to get one working at a time so I have disabled it.
So what does A do?
Hood
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OK, A rotates ccv when I press up and down in motor tuning.
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Ok go into Ports and Pins Motor page and change the A Dir pin to 6.
Hood
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Great now that one works also!
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Ok so you have two choices now for B axis, either 8 step, 9 Dir or the other way round, so enable the B and try. You will have to command from the MDI line unless you have set up hot keys for moving the B axis.
Hood
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Can I try it in motor tuning (click B and press up and down) because I don't know the MDI, however if I try it in motor tuning the axis moves like one step and then stops when I press up and its stock untill I press down and than up again even if nothing happens when I press down
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Yes, you can use motor tuning, I forgot about that as I have not used it in a long time due to using the SmoothStepper.
Ok so what happens if you swap 8 and 9 round the opposite way to what you have now?
Hood
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Yes my wrong I didnt notice that you write that I shall switch this two, well it works perfectly, now it's just the Y-axis that is very slow and jumpy
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Ok thats good.
Check that dip switch 5 and 6 are set the same on Y as on other axis.
Hood
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Yes all the dip-switches are the same for all axis
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And motor tuning the same?
Try swapping the X and Y motors around and see if the problem follows the motor.
Hood
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Well the problem didnt follow the motor
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And the motor tuning are the same
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Ok next go into Ports and Pins Motor setup and change the Step and Dir for X axis to 1 and 17 and then change Y to 16 and 14 and see if when you press the X jog keys if the motor is good, same for other motor when you press Y jog
Hood
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Yes now the problem moved from the Y axis to the X axis
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Ok so if you unplug the parallel cable and attach your remote control does the Y axis move smooth?
Hood
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Yes than it works moths
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I mean it works smooth with the remoter
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Ok it would seem its a parallel port or Mach problem. I dont see anything wrong in your config so I would guess at a bad port or bad cable, most likely the cable.
Hood
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OK, can I try the port with the test software and see if that gives me any information?
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I dont know, what test software? Really the only way I can think of is if you have an osciliscope, then you could see what the pulse out of the port is like.
You could try increasing the Step and Dir pulse on motor tuning to 5 just in case that is an issue but not likely.
Hood
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I mean the driver test that comes with mach3, Well when I change it to 4 and 4 Y axis works realy nice but the Z axis starts to jump little now and than, is there a way to change it for just one axis instead of all?
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If you should be honest is Nema 23 good or not so good stepper motors?
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It all depends on what you will be fitting them to, if its a small light machine it should be fine. My preference is servos but steppers do have there uses.
Hood
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Ok good to here that, I have tried around in the tuning now and the dir pulse doesent seem to make any changes on any axis. The step pulse 1-3= Y bad and the other god. Step pulse 4-5 = Y good and Z a little jumpy.
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That would seem to suggest that the driver is a bit flakey but why they all work fine from the remote I dont know as that would seem to suggest they are all fine at the same setting.
Hood
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Yes it might be the 25-pin cable or the port of the computer I will check that tomorrow. But thanks a lot for the help. I saved a lot of time for me. I am really glad this works so fine now. But now I must sleep in other wise I will turn in to a zombie. Bye bye
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I mean you saved a lot of time for me...
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Hopefully you will get it sorted with a cable.
Where are you from? Somewhere in Europe?
Hood
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I am from Sweden
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I have now tried two different 25-pin cables and another computer but the problem is still there, but after I have tried some different settings the problem has moved from axis Y to Z. So now All axis works perfect except Z Which just shakes sometimes and works nice sometimes.
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I now tried to load the roadrunner g-code and the Z axis worked until the speed was to high than axis locked and started to shake. If I shift the motor output pins from Z to A the problem moves to A. So I guess it something with step pin 7 and dir pin 3.
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Another observation is that axis Z only works in Velocity 1-45 in the motor tuning but the other motors works from velocity 1- about 150 and if I drive the Z axis in velocity 15 I can stop the axis by hand that is impossible with the other axis.
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More or less the same time zone as me then, maybe an hour out :)
Hood
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So any tip on what I shall do to make my Z axis work like the other axis?
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Sorry didnt notice your previous replies.
What settings did you change?
Hood
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No problem, Well I just goof around with different pins and settings in motor tuning but everything is almost like it was yesterday.
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Dont change pins as that will not help, the pins are dedicated to the particular motor drive so if you change them then the wrong pins will be assigned and the motors wont work.
Motor tuning, yes you can mess with that but really you can work out roughly what you will have there as you know the motor has 200 steps per rev and then multiply by the microstepping setting you have set via the dip switches and that will be the amount of steps per rev which as you are not hooked up to a machine will be a unit. Once you do connect things to a machine then you will have to factor gearing (if any) and pitch of screws to get the correct steps per unit. For Velocity you will likely get around 1000rpm, maybe more if the motors are unloaded, acceleration is just trial and error. However once you do connect up to a machine you will have to reset things as the load will make the motor tuning different.
You also have A and B as rotary axis, that means the steps are per degree so set them to linear at the moment so that you can easily calulate steps per unit and Velocity.
Hood
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I think it might be something in mach3 that interfere with pin 7 and 3 because I have tried it on two computers and with three different cables. Is this possible?
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It is always possible that a setting in Mach is the problem but your xml looked ok.
Have a look in the BIOS and see what mode your port is in, set to ECP if its not and try again.
The xml you sent the last day seemed to be from an old version of Mach, might be worth trying the latest lockdown if you have not done so already.
Noise can also play a part in making things go weird, so maybe try and seperate your motors wiring out a bit neater and if possible use shielded cables.
Hood
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The BIOS says parallel port mode ECP so I gues its not that but there are some other settings for the serial port in other menus like OnBoard Serial Port A: Auto/Disable/Enable. And in another sub menu I can chose Auto/Disable/378/278/3BC can it be something with this settings?
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Serial port has nothing to do with Mach, or at least with your setup, it is the parallel port that is used.
Hood
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Ok, well than it is just Auto/Disable/378/278/3BC. I dont think it is the wiring of the cables because now I have switched the pins in motor outputs so Axis B got pin 7 and 3 and than that motor got the problems that the axis locks so the problem always follows the pins 3 and 7
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No I think it is the stepper motor which is corrupt. I switched position on Z and Bs connection on the board and the problem did follow the motor
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You need to set the pins to the way it was last night, the pins are hard wired to each axis on the driver board and you can not change them, you can only tell Mach which pin does what.
When you set them back then disable all but the X axis and try that. If it works then disable X and enable Y and test, do the same for each axis making sure the one you are testing is the only one enabled.
Hood
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Well I did change the settings back like it was and then I unplugged the wire plug on the Z motor and try it on every cable and it was always the same and when I try another motor on pin 7 and 3 it works just fine so it must be the motor I think.
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Ok that does sound like a bad motor. Make sure you have it wired correctly, sometimes the colours on these motors are different from normal, it could be you have the coils wired wrong. If you have an ohm meter you should be able to work out which coil corresponds to which wires.
Hood