Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: jasminder on February 23, 2011, 01:18:49 AM
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hi,
i am jasminder singh from india. i just built a cnc lathe running mach3 with a pci parallel port. here is build log on cncnzone:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mini_lathe/107017-10x7_home_made_cnc_finish.html
i am getting a strange problem.The spindle dro is not working in mach3 turn. the index led blinks in the diagnosis screen when moved with hand slowly it means that mach is receiving the index pulse. but why no rpms are show (just 1 is displayed)
The spindle speed is chaning when jogging the z and x of my lathe. Spindle slow downs when axis moves towards the chuck ( same is with both x and z axis). Please suggest. I have tried reinstalling mach3 (2.0somthing version) and changing the debounce and index delay too.
many thanks,
jasminder singh
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That would seem to be a very old version you are using, have you tried upgrading to the latest?
Can you attach your xml in case you have a config issue.
Hood
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thanks hood for your help.
here are the two xml files one from the older version 2.0 and the new one 3.0. \
the problem still exists. the spindle index is being sensed but no rpms in the dro.
the changing speed while jogging is gone now. i don't know how.
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You do not have the Index Input enabled, you have the port and pin set but not enabled.
Hood
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Oh also meant to say if you are planning on threading or using feed per rev (G95) you will need to enable "Use Spindle Feedback in Sync mode" Its on Ports and Pins, Turn Options.
Hood
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dear hood,
i saved the xml file when i was trying different settings for mach3 but when i was trying to get my dro work, the index was enabled. ( the index led in diag. screen does not blink if the index is not enabled in the settings) shortly, it wasnt the problem but just a mistake by me.
any other cause or possibility for mach not to show rpms?
i installed the newest version but still the problem is same. before yesterday, the dro was working correctly. i replaced one of my stepper driver and the problem begins.
i am failed to find out where is the problem. The index sensor is giving active low pulse from 4.2V to 0.80V. Mach3 is sensing it but where the problem begins?
i will trying feeding the index pulse directly to my parallel port and see if the bob or something else is coming in the way.
any suggestions are welcomed,
jasminder singh
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Go to General Config and set Index Debounce to zero and see if that helps.
What are you using for an index pulse?
How are you starting the spindle?
Hood
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I am managing to replicate your problem here but I have not been able to work out why. You had the Turn Diagnostics plugin enabled and it shouldnt be, but that didnt help. You also had Timing enabled which is no longer used in Turn, but again that didnt help. Might just be best to start with a fresh xml and see if that cures it.
Hood
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Ok just found your problem, you have Spindle pulley 1 set up with a 0 ratio :)
Other things to do
Disable the Turn Diagnostics plugin and restart Mach
Enable feedback in sync mode )ports and Pins Spindle Setup page)
Disable Timing input
Possibly set the Index Denounce to sero.
Hood
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many thanks hood. you are awsome.
i have doubt now when people call me intelligent.
it is working now. But i don't know why the m30 rewind program command is not working. may be there is something new in latest version. i will google it.
can you help me setting up the pulley ratio?
the motor is having a 5 inch pulley and the spindle is having 4 inch. max rpm of motor 1370.
what wud be the ratio and max rpm at spindle?
i don't have techometer but my cal says spindle will have max of 1500 rpms. but not sure.
thanks again,
jasminder singh
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Do you see the M30 in the code window? If not then you will need to make sure you have ended the block in your code by pressing the Enter key after the M30, either that or put a % on the line after the M30.
Motor pulley is 1.25 times larger than spindle pulley so spindle should go 1.25 times faster than the motor, so I make that 1712.5rpm.
Hood
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ooops , no enter after m30
i got it. thanks.
i just felt that i am missing steps. any good diy servo controller built out there you may know? i want to start with atmega16 and an hbridge circuit that i have on my hands. i have a quad encoder with 400 ppr. sorry but no uhu based controller. any atmega16 code may help to get a good start.
thanks again,
jasminder singh
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Afraid I dont know of any DIY servo drives :(
Hood
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cool,
one more thing if you can tell about.
its about writing a macro in mach.
i want to write a macro in mach3 that will get input from a encoder attached to the stepper motor. No matter which direction, this macro will see if a pulse was given to a stepper driver (or a parallel port pin assume 2) but there was no output from the encoder and will then reset mach3 and display a message saying that motor is missing steps.
I want to know that-
1. is this possible?
2. can mach3 take ttl level inputs at the intervals of 5 us?
3. can mach3 run both the program and the macro all the time along with it to monitor the input.
i am pretty sure that you will have good knowlegde about it.
buying a servo isn't a good option this time for me. may be i can save my workpiece from being scraped this way.
thanks,
jasminder singh
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You can do it if you use one of the encoder inputs. How effective it will be I am not sure, there is a board that does exactly what you are wanting, here is a link http://rogersmachine.net/encoderinterface.html
I think it uses a plugin rather than macropump now but it originally had a macropump.
Hood
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Following on to the previous answers I have tried all the actions suggested and still cannot get the speed read out to indicate.
If I rotate the spindle by hand with the diagnostic screen on I get a green light each time the magnet passes the hall effect chip
When I first got it going all worked ok and I even cut my first screw. However without any speed indication I am stuck
The installation is on a Myford ML7 lathe and all other things seem 100%
Wiring and routing of it are unchanged
I get 5 v out of the hall device as it passes the spindle magnet. I do not know how to post an .xml file either.
I 'm a bit desperate for help and hope someone can do
Geoff Ford Cape Town
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Following on to the previous answers I have tried all the actions suggested and still cannot get the speed read out to indicate.
If I rotate the spindle by hand with the diagnostic screen on I get a green light each time the magnet passes the hall effect chip
When I first got it going all worked ok and I even cut my first screw. However without any speed indication I am stuck
The installation is on a Myford ML7 lathe and all other things seem 100%
Wiring and routing of it are unchanged
I get 5 v out of the hall device as it passes the spindle magnet. I do not know how to post an .xml file either.
I 'm a bit desperate for help and hope someone can do
Geoff Ford Cape Town
dear geoff,
there will be a mch3turn.xml file in your system folders where mach is installed (it is where the macros are saved on you c drive)
have you set up pulley ratio?
it should not be set to 0
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Thanks a lot
Yes the pulley ratio is set to 1.
Is this the file that is needed to look at my set up mach3 turn.xb74
If it is how do I send it to the thread.
I tried to cut and paste but no joy. I can e mail as an attachment but to get it on here is beating me
Geff Ford Cape Town
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That is one of the backups that Mach makes, you are looking in the backup folder but the one you really want (current one) is in the main Mach3 folder, not the backup folder.
You can attach by using the additional options button on the reply page, yo will need to rename the xml first though as the forum only accepts a file name once, so copy to your desktop, rename to GeoffFord.xml and attach.
Hood
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iHope this is ok Thanks for your patience
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If that is the correct xml then you do not have the Index (in Ports and Pins, Inputs) enabled and set up, also you have an Index Debounce (on General config page) of 100, that will likely need reduced to zero or near.
Hood
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Thanks Hood,
I am not sure if the file was the correct one as I cannot find out where the file produced in CONFIG - Save is located.
I have saved several times but nothing appears in the mach set up folder area .I
checked that index was enabled and it was. Also set debounce to zero but speed still not registering.
In diagnostics the index led is flashing at rates which differs with speed alterations.At 40 rpm it is a strong pulse at about second intervals.
I did the auto check in inputs and it correctly found index enabled and port
I am going to reload mach 3 rdo the set up and see if that does anything
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Dear Hood
reloaded and reset up did nothing to solve my problem.
Could the signal shape or width or something be my trouble.
Getting to the limit of my expertise, not too high in any case
Geoff Ford cape Town
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Ok the xml you want is for the profile you are using. If you use the standard Mach3Turn profile it will be found in C:\Mach3 folder and be called Mach3Turn.xml, If you use a custom profile it will have the name of thecustom profile.
Hood
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Ok I have reloaded and set up and this is the setup xml I
hope
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Still no Index set up in that xml, see screenshot.
Hood
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This should be the latest xml. I checked that the index was enabled in the set up pins &ports
Does the save settings in config produce another xml each time you press it ?
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should be here an xml
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Ok, Ports and Pins, Spindle Setup, take the tick out of the disable spindle relays box. I see you are using Outputs 1 and 2 so if that is not meant for the spindle put 3 and 4 in the M3 and M4 box on the spindle setup page.
Hood
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Hi Hood
I have done all the suggested without any joy and have rebuilt the hall effect sensor with a new chipand still do not register any speed indication.
I have had a scope on the output to the opto isolator and then after it and before the pc parallel port. Both show the pulse is apparently ok. A meter on the output shows +5v when the thing triggers
I have set the config up exactly as recommended by Tony Jeffree in his article which I used to build up the system to convert my ML7 to CNC and everything is working well save for the speed read out
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You still have the relays disabled.
Hood
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I am not using any relays other than the estop contacts on the external relay energised by the motor starter.
I will enable the relays as you suggest
Thnaks Geoff
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Yes I know but as I said earlier you need to have the relays enabled even if they are set to outputs you are not using and also you need to tell Mach the spindle has started by either commanding a M3, M4 or pressing the Spindle button. If you dont have either of these then you will not see the spindle speed displayed. This is just when using the parallel port though, if using an external device such as the SmoothStepper then these steps are not needed.
Hood
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Hi Hood Hope you are not losing hope with me
Done as you say and attach the latest .XML file . Can you see anything wrong ?
when I go to turn should the spindle revs appear without further key strokes ?
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You still have the tick in disable spindle relays as in the last pic posted, you need to enable them.
Load this xml, switch on spindle (button in Mach) and see if it works.
Hood
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Dear Hood
You are so good to have stuck with me and I cannot thank you enough. The pressing of the mach spindle button did the trick.
I had wrongly assumed that this only applied when the spindle was under a speed control or via the program and since I only have the on/off lathe motor switch I never pressed it.
thanks now I can get on with some screwcutting
Cheers Geoff Ford Cape Town
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Glad you got it :)
Hood
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Hi All,
Sorry if I am "highjacking" this thread but can a NPN proximity switch work as a spindle RPM counter? and if so are there any available suitable for 5V supply from the BOB? or, do I have to use an optointerrupter? and if so how do I connect the cathode/anode wiring? I am converting an Orac, mine had reflective strips on the disc rather than the segmented one. I have looked at OPB917B on the RS website, I'm not a "spark" so excuse me for the lack of ability I undoubtedly show! ;D
Regards,
Wayne
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I have used both the OPB 916B and 917B and they work well, all you need apart from them is a 220ohm resistor to limit the current to the switches LED (and of course a slotted disc).
To wire you connect the Green and Black wires together then connect them to your 0V (Gnd) on your breakout the Red wire connects to 5v on your BOB but with a resistor in series so that you limit the current to the LED. The White wire connects direct to the 5V and lastly the blue connects to a spare input on your BOB.
Some people use prox switches but I have never so cant suggest which one would be suitable.
Hood
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Thanks for the info Hood, one on order from RS as I type!
Regards,
Wayne
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Hood,
OPB917B arrived, bracket fabricated, installed and everything up and running perfectly! Thank you very much for your help and advice!
Regards,
Wayne
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No probs :) It was advice I got from John Prentice about 7 years ago that put me onto the OPB 917B so glad I could pass it on :)
Hood
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Hi
I have read this topic few times but I cant solve problem with spindle speed DRO on my lathe.
Index LED works on the diagnostic screen. Spindle relays are enabled, spindle feedback in Sync. modes enabled,
tried different settings of Index debounce (0- 300), M3 command to run spindle....NOTHING :-[
Spindle true speed starts at S-command value and goes slowly to 0 and stay there...
I would really need index - true spindle speed for threading...
Could someone help with some new suggestion?
Thanks
Andrej
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What do you have for the index pulse?
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Inductive PNP switch
Connection between PC and hardware is through NVUM V2
I have found few posts about this board and unfortunately the information are not good - it seems this board is a sh*t.
In the next days I will try with standard LPT breakout board.
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The NVUM is not a good option. You will have much better results with a standard LPT board.
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Unfortunately LPT is not an option... my laptop doesnt have this port :(
Is there any option to get index working on NVUM-V2?
Did anybody succeed to get threading with NVUM-V2?
Thanks
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Finally succeeded to replace NOVOSUN with traditional LPT breakout board and find older computer with LPT.
Now index works OK and rpm in MACH3 are stable.
So, I have used threading wizard and try to cut threads.
Threading starts, but only few mm moving is smooth and then starts to vibrate. Also return is not smooth.
Next pass starts also smooth, but starts to vibrate after few mm.
It's strange that speed- feed rate in MACH3 shows 0,75mm but programmed pitch is 1,5 mm
Also this feed rate varies from 0,72 - 0,78 - it's not stable - rpm in MACH 3 is stable and doesn’t change during threading.
Also cut thread has ~0,75 pitch.
Pulley ratio is set to 1.
What could be the problem? Any idea?
Thanks
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Miha, A few things to check:
1. While in the threading wizard, and after all info was input, tick the box in the left top corner and the wizard
will check you system for acceleration / feedrate at rpm noted. should not get a warning.
2. Your system axes should be able to move at whatever feedrate smoothly and if it doesn't may need to tune you
drive.
3. Are you manually controlling you rpm ? this refers to Pulley ratio? Confirm you spindle rpm is running correctly
for what you input in the wizard.
4. There is a manual on threading that I wrote long time ago and you can find it in Members Docs also check where
Mach3 is installed since it is distributed along with the software.
RICH
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Thanks for a help, Rich.
1. There is no warning - only information about threading - I'm attaching print screen...
2. Both axis are moving smoothly at any feedrate -when jogging, turning,... Also first few mm while treading but then starts to vibrate and
feed/turn starts to varry (even constant spindre rpm)
3. Rpm is controlled manually - by gearbox. Before threading I start and check rpm in Mach3. Then input this rpm in wizard...
During threading rpm is stable - motor, and gearbox are quite oversized and therefore very stable.
I will try to find threading manual and try to find reason for not stable feedrate and wrong pitch.
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Despite several hours of effort and various attempts, I was unable to find a solution.
The turns of the workpiece are constant, and the pitch of the thread changes ... I am also attaching a photo.
I am also attaching XML if anyone could help in any way.
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It looks like spindle stalling under initial load.
If you run the code so it just scratches the surface of the diameter, can you see the pitch change.
Also 0.25mm depth for the first cut could be too much depending on the spindle power at 250 rpm.
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Hello
The spindle is driven by a 7.5 kw motor via a gear transmission. Speed is stable, also rpm in Mach3 are stable during threading.
Thread in the pictures was made with multiple passes.
I also can't figure it out why feedrate in Mach3 showes 0,75 mm/turn if programmed pitch is 1,5mm
This feedrate is also not stable despite the fact that the spindle speed is constant.
I’m slowly getting desperate already, as I’ve invested a lot in reworking the machine, and now I can’t cut the thread.
Any advice is welcome ...
Thanks
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Run a scratch pass so we can see what it looks like.
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On my opinion there is something wrong in MACH3 settings.
Mach does not follow the programmed thread pitch.
If programmed pitch is 2mm, treading starts with F= 2mm/rew, but after ~ 2mm of moving this changes to F= 1mm/rew.
Spindle speed is stable and does not change. Feedrate/moving is not smooth but vibrating.
Index signal is one/turn - I tried with short time signal, longer signal, different index debounce settings... nothing change.
I have noticed under Spindle calibration menu one window for index signal "zero if one/rew". There is "1" but I can't change this value.
Could this be a reason for wrong pitch - wrong F/rew?
Thanks
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OK, you know better. Good luck.
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Dear Graham
I don't know what your answer is supposed to mean
I just wrote my opinion. If the programmed step (feed rate) is 2mm / rew, and Mach works 1mm / rew, then there are probably some other settings ...
This is the same also without workpiece.
And a scratch test.... the same as pictures in my previous post .... its cut in a piece of plastic, so no (or near zero) cutting force.
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MojsterMiha,
I just downloaded your xml file today and had a quick look at it nothing seemed out of place.
Scratch test is not what you did in the previous post. Get the write up I did on threading as it has lots of
info that i am not going to repeat because that is the reason I wrote it.
From your pic of the cut thread seems that your depth of cut was too deep, slow down took place or you lost control, the controller can only slow down and not speed up, it tries to save the thread and modifies the feed rate on the following pathing.
Just do as Graham said doing scratch tests. Slow spindle speed down, try 50, 100, 150 instead of 250. When you use the Wizard it will say if you are exceeding axis capability ( not some pop up error) in the right hand corner of the screen.
What happens when you do a G1 Z********* Fx move at the threaging feed rates you are going to use and just scribing a cut into the material. Should be constant movement , not vibrating!
Also do you have backlash in the X axis, noticed that in the xml but also that compensation was not active. Backlash is a real PITA if you are trying to do threading.
RICH
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Dear Graham, RICH
Thank you for your patience
In my previous post I sent the picture of thread cut in multiple passes in a plastic work piece - each pass not more than 0,1mm
I read all the thread cutting instructions, but unfortunately I didn't find the answer to the unusual doing of the machine / Mach3 in my case.
I have tried also with 50 rpm, 100,... it is the same. Spindle is driven by 7,5 kW motor and gearbox. Spindle speed is constant - I have measured it (out of Mach3) also with encoder and digital tachometer. It could not be a reason to slow down feed rate.
Z axis moves smoothly also by 5 times higher feedrate - when not threading. By all other work both axis moves with no problem at much higher feedrate.
I am attaching a picture of the thread - just one pass. Threading in this pictures was started 5mm before workpiece and thread pitch is quite constant, because it was already reduced to 1/2 (before touching workpiece)
If I start treading close to workpiece, thread looks like in my previous photo - pitch is reduced from programmed to 1/2 of programmed.
It is hard to explaine...I have made a short video...but is too big to upload it.
From my previous post: "I have noticed under Spindle calibration menu one window for index signal "zero if one/rew". There is "1" but I can't change this value."
Could this creates an issue?
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even i have no experience in threading, had als o look to your Profile.
two questions:
-have you tryed to run Diameter mode instead of radius mode?
-witch Version of mach3 are you running?
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Hello
Please, could you explain to me what difference you mean Diameter mode vs radius mode?
Where/how I can set this modes?
I'm running R3.043.022
Thanks
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Config -> Port's&Pin's -> Turn Options -> X- Mode
do i realy have to explain the difference between Diameter and radius for a lathe user?
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Thanks
Sorry, I'm not real lathe user... I deal more with milling and, above all, with the retrofitting of machines.
I assume there is a difference in moving along the X axis.
I have a problem with the Z-axis ...
To this day, I have not encountered such problems ...
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try to run .062
if i have a look to the Mach3 Changelog
https://www.machsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Changelist90.txt
a lot of changes for threading have been made after .022
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Thanks
I will try and report the result ..
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MojsterMiha,
I'm running R3.043.022
No wonder your having problems as threading was broke in that era of versions. Install / upgrade to
.062 and the problem should go away.
RICH
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Thanks
I will do it.
I have used an old computer with already installed and licensed MACH3 - removed from old milling machine.
On milling machine it was all OK and I did not upgrade MACH3 - my bad..
Thanks again
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Finally succeeded to upgrade MACH3 to .063 version.
It works great :)
The threads are as they actually should be.
Thank you all for your patience and all your help.