Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: rickw on February 19, 2011, 07:24:48 AM
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Hello,
I am using AutoCad to design and saving files in DXF format. I have been using it for years and am really proficient with it. I have also been using CamBam to convert the DXF files into code for Mach. This is not working out so well because in many instances, CamBam does not transfer the correct code, or something to that effect. For example, I have designed a piece of material which has slots at various angles. They are correct in AutoCad but when imported into CamBam, they will not allow toolpaths. Then when imported into Mach, they do not fully cut as designed or even cut at all. Can someone suggest an easier way to convert my ACad DXF files to code? I have been evaluating VCarve Pro but it's a bit pricey and all I need, at this point, is some simple conversion tool. Any suggestions?
Thanks
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Rick,
Don't forget about LazyCam - it's free, part of Mach and works extremely well in most instances albeit taking rather a long time with complex files.
It has taken me forever to save up for VCarve Pro. All I can say is that it is worth every penny and well worth waiting for.
Tweakie.
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Tweakie.......Can you give me some reasons to purchase VCarve Pro over some of the other software out there? I have seen some of the projects out there and they are amazing. What do you use it for? Is it easy to use? I downloaded the trial but haven't messed with it much. I am trying to cut out parts for a new machine but I keep getting snagged converting the files in CamBam. I am very new at this but I want to keep learning and progressing.
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Hi Rick,
I worked through most if not all of the Vectric examples some while ago http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,6962.0.html and all the Vectric software is just so easy / quick to learn I was hooked, just needed the money ;D
There is nothing wrong with CamBam, I have used that a lot in the past but had quite a lot of difficulty learning all it's little wrinkles. I used the free version and Danny at CNC4Free.org http://www.cnc4free.org/ was most helpful resolving problems. There is also a lot of other interesting stuff on his website if you have not seen it already.
Tweakie.
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Talking Vectric, I'd be fairly certain that you are familiar with Cut2D. It's pretty cheap but very limited.
Imo, SheetCam is a MUCH better product for a lower end 2D CAM. Les provides great support too !
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I agree on SheetCam. I've tried a lot of them and SheetCam is the best deal going for 2/2.5D CAM.
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I have spent about the same amount on CamBam and really don't want to purchase software that does about the same thing. I may purchase the VCarve program but I have to make sure it works for me. There are so many programs out there. I don't want to make the same mistake again. CamBam might be great for some but like Tweakie said, it's difficult learning all its little wrinkles. I might evaluate sheetcam and see if its worth the price. I should have evaluated CamBam longer.
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All depends on what kind of parts you will be producing I would think as to which CAM would suit your needs best.
Hood
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I am using AutoCad to design and saving files in DXF format. ...I have also been using CamBam to convert the DXF files into code for Mach. This is not working out so well because in many instances, CamBam does not transfer the correct code, or something to that effect.
To answer your specific question, you could have a look at Dolphin Partmaster. Their licensing system stinks but the product is quite good. The US site is way more developed than the UK one where the product originates, and suggests they have a 'hobby' pricing structure.
To start something I may regret, are you sure you know what you doing when you export your DXFs? I am on shaky ground here as I've never used CamBam, but the reviews are good and the forum is helpful. Hence, I can only speak from my experience with Acad to DXF to Partmaster.
The parts need to be on one layer, and a closed (if applicable) 2D polyline of zero thickness. Straight lines and circular arcs only. The order in which you draw stuff affects the order in which contours are machined. This is especially so for stuff that is mirrored and copied. The direction in which you join your individual polylines affects the direction in which they are milled. ASCII DXF better than binary. Don't ask the CAM to cut a slot 5mm wide with a 5mm cutter. If you want to do this, import/draw the cutter centreline not the slot. Similarly, you can't cut a 3mm internal radius with a 5mm cutter.
Not aimed at you but it is a fallacy to think you can draw an all-singing, all-dancing 3D part with shading in CAD and then expect a $200 CAM system to work out what you want to cut. CAM = Computer-Aided, not Computer-ESP. That's why MasterCAM is more than 10x the price.
If you are having trouble, import a simplified version of your part. Post the DXF and a description of what CamBam does 'wrong'.
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If it were me, and I was hard set on keeping my $, I'd take full advantage of the $ already spent and focus on learning all of the ins and outs of CamBam. I heard some pros recommend it in the past so I feel sure that it is good SW.
They got your money, time to knuckle down and follow their rules.
But, that's just what I'd do.
Like djc said, and RICH said regards to LCam, the Cam works nicely if you give it what it is expecting from your CAD.
RC
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Rick,
I'm with Hood. There is a fair amount of software out there and one needs to really try them out before purchase. I thought CamBam was rather good
and without some of the common quirks, but, i only tried it out a long time ago. You never know what you will get into with CNC. I use LazyCam a lot and for the most part it satisfies my needs, but, i also wrote the manual for it , so have a rather good flavor of when something is screwy and can work around the problem without too much grief.
Since like you, I have rather good CAD capability and can generate 3D out of Autocad i went with MeshCAM for 3D machining and so far I am happy with it.
So think about what you may end up doing as in the long run what is pricey now may turn out to be more economical in learning time and money spent in the lung run.
The problem with trying things out is that you spend so much time learning different programs and after a while it's just a PITA.
Gerry has a program that generates code directly form Autocad ( free ) so you may want to try that out. Did i just say that after a while
trying programs becomes a pain. ???
LOL,
RICH
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As Rich says, I have a macro that exports g-code directly from AutoCAD. If you know what you're doing in AutoCAD, it's pretty simple.
http://home.comcast.net/~cncwoodworker/AC2GC.html
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It sounds to me more like a case of starting with a bad DXF. Can you post what you are having problems with? Typically every CAM program will fail creating a pocket or profile type toolpaths if the geometry is not closed. If your sloppy with your drawing in AutoCAD you'll wind up open loops, crossed lines, etc. Every CAM program is going to have the same problems if your DXF artwork is not clean. If you can post a sample file you may get some good feedback on the DXF file itself.
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I've got both Sheetcam and Vcarve pro, I use Vcarve for signs due to the Vcarving but sometimes use it for 2 1/2D stuff and find it very good, easy to use and I like the preview you get.
Sheetcam is also very good and Les is very responsive to problems, he sometimes has a fix out in hours of being told about a problem and will try very hard to help.
For 3D I use Meshcam and for the money this is the best 3D CAM I've used (not used that many though)
However as others have said, if you've spent money on cambam then find out what your doing wrong as I've also heard good reports about it.
Steve
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The problem was exactly as Jeff mentioned. I had some open loops and didn't know it. I failed to see if the display was a "true" closure when using CamBam. I do have to ask, since many are mentioning 3D applications, how much 3D effect can you cut with just a 3 axis machine? I would like to progress into some of awesome works shown on the forums. Of course this will be as I learn more and progress.
I looked at the link to the AutoCad macro and it is cool. I am going to download and play with it on some scrap material.
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This is 2.5D really but quite a few of us made these with 3 axis machines last year.
Tweakie.
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I would like to progress into some of awesome works shown on the forums.
To do that you will need the right software. So will repeat that it depends on what you want to do not only now but maybe in the future. ;)
RICH
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This is 2.5D really but quite a few of us made these with 3 axis machines last year.
Tweakie.
That would be considered a 3D part, imo.
I just got some 1/32" router bits, so I may need to cut another one. :)
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I just got some 1/32" router bits, so I may need to cut another one. Smiley
You still wont get as much detail as I got ;D ;D
Tweakie.
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rick,
Go to the Vectric site and you will find a comparison sheet of the different Vectric programs. Think about what you want to do and relate to required software. The comparison comes in handy when looking at other software for functionality. They all have the breakup of software down to a science and one can't win the game. :)
RICH
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Hey Tweakie,
HMM.........But Gerry can still afford to go out and buy router bits and you can't because you spent your yearly allowance on software.
Be carefull now, rumor has it that your better half monitors this site. ;) :D ;D
RICH
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But Gerry can still afford to go out and buy router bit
I have to buy the $5 ones on Ebay, though. Saving for a bigger, faster router. :)
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Spot on Guys, right on all counts, money's all gone, be lucky if I can affort the wood to make another tiger anyway :'(
I think Hood summed it up when he said that the software depends on the type of parts you wish to produce. I think VCarve is great for a router making wood or plastic parts but I don't think it would be my first choice for a milling machine making metal parts. It is perhaps all a matter of personal choice and making the best from what you have.
Tweakie.
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Tweakie,
Vectric makes:
CUT2D-2d machining
VCARVE PRO-2d machining / provides CAD/ carving/engraving but not 3d machining
ASPIRE- has it all
CUT3D-3d machining
PHOTOVCARVE-doing machining from photos
As shown above you just can't win the game unless you buy separate packages or Aspire. You may want to comment as i assume you tried
them all. I kow i looked at CUT3D and found MeshCam to be better but that's just my opinion.
RICH
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Thanks Rich.
If CNC was the only thing I had to spend money on it would be great but my responsibilities have increased with age and my family now takes priority. So, somewhile ago, I set a limit on my annual software expenditure (just managed to squeeze in Art's Gearotic Motion last year - really glad I did that) but Vectric Aspire at $2000 is just too steep for me at the moment.
Not sure if Cut3D is any better than DeskProto (which I already have) or Meshcam, perhaps Gerry has tried a comparison on this one.
PhotoVCarve has many rivals and once you get the hang of it Art's Mach1filter makes a pretty good job for free.
I may just buy Cut2D as this seems useful and easy to use and at a price I can afford. I tried the SheetCam trial version and the jury is still out on this one at the moment.
Incidentally, a buddy of mine has more money than he can count and he said to me the other day "don't you ever get bored" ? he was genuinly supprised when I said "no, don't haye the time to get bored". Perhaps the moral here is to have almost just enough money but never too much.
Tweakie.
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I've never even installed Cut3D. I've used the DeskProto demo a few years ago, and it's really good. But it's hard to beat the simplicity of MeshCAM. But it's not without it's faults. I'd like some things added or changed. A lot of my requests usually find there way into the program, but sometimes they take a while to get in there.
I'm very fortunate in that I'm a beta tester for Aspire.
And I was one of the very first MeshCAM users, and had a lot of input in the early development of it, and the author won't take my money.
As for CAD, my day job is using AutoCAD.
If not for the above, I wouldn't be able to afford anything either, as my wife has been a full time student for the last few years.
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I may just buy Cut2D as this seems useful and easy to use and at a price I can afford. I tried the SheetCam trial version and the jury is still out on this one at the moment.
Tweakie.
Being you already have VCP, C2D might be best for you as the interface of the two is so similar. But, if the choice was solely between C2D and SheetCam, that's an easy one imo.
penny for penny, SheetCam is hands down the better choice.
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I may just buy Cut2D as this seems useful and easy to use and at a price I can afford. I tried the SheetCam trial version and the jury is still out on this one at the moment.
Tweakie.
I may just buy Cut2D as this seems useful and easy to use and at a price I can afford. I tried the SheetCam trial version and the jury is still out on this one at the moment.
Tweakie.
Being you already have VCP, C2D might be best for you as the interface of the two is so similar. But, if the choice was solely between C2D and SheetCam, that's an easy one imo.
penny for penny, SheetCam is hands down the better choice.
Being you already have VCP, C2D might be best for you as the interface of the two is so similar. But, if the choice was solely between C2D and SheetCam, that's an easy one imo.
penny for penny, SheetCam is hands down the better choice.
Cut2D doesn't do lead in/out. That was a deal breaker for me.
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Being you already have VCP, C2D might be best for you as the interface of the two is so similar. But, if the choice was solely between C2D and SheetCam, that's an easy one imo.
penny for penny, SheetCam is hands down the better choice.
Did you mis-type that? V Carve Pro does everything that Cut2D does, plus a LOT more.
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Hi Gerry, I assumed Tweak hadVCP from reply #1.
Why he mentione buying C2d in #24, I'm not sure.
I was just comparing C2D to SC, thats all.
Lead in/out is one like rrc mentioned.
Only 1 tool allowed per file generation is another (work arounds possible here tho)
50% max. stepover is another
Russ
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Sorry Guys, the confusion is all my fault.
You are both quite right, i don't have a use for Cut2D so I can delete this from my list. ;D
Tweakie.
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Thanks Russ for the comments as that is the kind of things that someone may not realize until after they purchased the software.
Just goes to show that you really need to explore software and compare before it's purchased.
Hey Tweakie, how can we ever get bored as we are to busy learning.
RICH
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So it looks as if there are two, VCarve and Meshcam, that I should evaluate. I have looked at the meshcam web site and the meshcam art looks promising.
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Since there are some very savvy CNC operators here I have another question relating to Mach. I asked the same question in another post but I can't seem to get into to read it. When I click on the link, nothing happens. I have never been able to line up a project when importing code into Mach. I always make sure I have plenty of material and cut so that it cuts correctly but I know this is not the proper way. For example, if I was making a book shelf and wanted to drill all of the holes for adjustable shelving, how would I start? When I import the code, the image is showing with all the information but I don't get how you line up the material and get the exact cut one's trying to achieve. Can someone offer some clarity please?
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So it looks as if there are two, VCarve and Meshcam, that I should evaluate. I have looked at the meshcam web site and the meshcam art looks promising.
V-Carve Pro and MeshCAM are two very different programs, for very different applications. For just about anything that they are both capable of, V-Carve Pro would be the better choice.
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Since there are some very savvy CNC operators here I have another question relating to Mach. I asked the same question in another post but I can't seem to get into to read it. When I click on the link, nothing happens. I have never been able to line up a project when importing code into Mach. I always make sure I have plenty of material and cut so that it cuts correctly but I know this is not the proper way. For example, if I was making a book shelf and wanted to drill all of the holes for adjustable shelving, how would I start? When I import the code, the image is showing with all the information but I don't get how you line up the material and get the exact cut one's trying to achieve. Can someone offer some clarity please?
It starts when you draw the part in your CAD program. Both the CAD program and your machine have a 0,0 position. So draw your part in the same relation to the origin that you want to place it on your machine. That's really all there is too it.
Some CAM programs allow you to move the origin before creating g-code.
You need to understand where the 0,0 position of your part is throughout the entire process, from CAD to CAM to g-code.
On my machine, I have positive stops to locate the lower left corner of my part at the 0,0 position. When I draw the part, I place the lower left corner of the part at 0,0 in the drawing. After I create the code, I simply place the part against the stops, and cut it.
I DO need to home the machine so it knows where my fixed 0,0 position is.
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That's what I have been doing but what if you have a piece of wood that is not normal or oval and you want to cut something in the middle. How would you locate the 0,0 on an application like this? The reason I ask this is I wanted to finish a cut that I had started previously. I had to change the DXF and import it back in CamBam. When I imported the changed code, the coordinates were not at the same location. I was about .065 off when started cutting. I let it go because there were other parts to be cut on the same piece of material. I just had to cut the one that was messed up. Also, I have seen the zeroing tools that some have made and wonder what they use them for. I can get pretty accurate with placing the cutter on the lower corner of a piece of material and zeroing all axis'. I thought they used these to locate a certain spot in the middle of a piece of material instead of a corner. Of course, I am not saying it is not good for finding the corner, I just thought they were used for other things besides this.
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Rick,
I think all the software I use allows the 0,0 position to be set in the centre of the work as an alternative to the corners. On some jobs, such as your oval, it may be easier to mark the centre of the work and then set tool zero to this position.
Tweakie.
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If I've got a long job that may have to be restarted for some reason, time or broken cutter perhaps, then I'll start with a hole somewere on the stock.
That way I can re centre the cutter in the hole and know it's relatively close, of course this doesn't work for very accurate parts.
If your machine has accurate homing switches then you can take a note of the machine coordinates for the work zero, then you just re home the machine then send it to these coordinates and zero the axis's.
Steve
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I think I get it now! What I have been doing is importing to the upper right of 0,0 so the lower left corner is 0,0. Instead, have the cross hairs of the x,y coordinates dissect a hole or specific location on the drawing, before importing into Mach, correct?
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It all depends on how you work. I always use the lower left corner as 0,0. My machine has fixed stops to locate the part at 0,0, and the machine has home switches. So it's very easy to find the exact same position.
If you're not removing the work from the table when you re-cut, then home switches should be all you need.
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The coordinates get off when you change the original drawing and reload into Mach. But what Steve said also makes sense because I tried it today. I completely changed a drawing and the coordinates. Then I zeroed on a hole location both times and it lined up perfectly without having to move the stock material. The actual drawing coordinates were not the same until I moved the entire drawing to the 0,0 in Bamcam.
I am in the process of building a new machine and have it almost finished. I am going to evaluate the VCarve program for the next few weeks. Tony (from Vcarve) said that the evaluation copy will not save tool path codes for your own DXF files. But this should still allow a good evaluation. from what I have seen of it, it is a quality program. It's still somewhat pricey. However, I am not against paying for quality. I am a firm believer of you get what you pay for.
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If you're moving the drawing, then that's the problem. You really should learn to edit the drawing without moving it. That would be a lot easier than referencing to a hole in the the part. Just my opinion.
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That's true for sure. I don't think CamBam has the flexibility like AutoCad. I tried to correct the drawing in CamBam but I couldn't get it to do what I wanted. I probably don't know it well enough yet.
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Hi
Has anyone using ucancam?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ucancam-V9-CNC-Waveboard-Engraving-Software-CAS-G-Code-/160498151859
For its price, looking very promising...
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Hi
Has anyone using ucancam?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ucancam-V9-CNC-Waveboard-Engraving-Software-CAS-G-Code-/160498151859
For its price, looking very promising...
It ships from China, so I wouldn't set my expectations too high....or expect any coherent tech support. Considering those two points, I think it's priced a bit high.
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I emailed them before a while.. They said they fix any issue with program. Their forum is not so fancy, however they answer for questions.
Actually i was looking for a program, generate waves... I just lazy to draw lines, if a program generate automatically..
As I looked for other programs, they dont makes it automatically. You have to spend tremendous time to draw lines out..
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Most CAD programs have a helix function. The attached is from Rhino3D. Is this what you mean by waves?
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Thank you, to answering me. Not only a sin wave i was thinking. Ive got this picture, and i knew some program makes it, because draw out hundred of squarefeets, can be boring.
Already i found some replies on cnczone. Thank you again to answer me. I
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I think Vcarve pro does that, it definately has a function to do random cuts and you can alter the settings so you may be able to get that effect.
Steve
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The VCP textures are nice and extremely easy to set-up but nowhere as deep as the earlier picture.
Tweakie.
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Thank you, to answering me. Not only a sin wave i was thinking. Ive got this picture, and i knew some program makes it, because draw out hundred of squarefeets, can be boring.
Already i found some replies on cnczone. Thank you again to answer me. I
ArtCAM generated this directly from the photo you posted using the "Create relief from image" function. It's not bad considering the photo is low resolution and I didn't do anything as far as smoothing or cleaning up the relief. I'd also say that either Vectric VCarve Pro or Cut3D had this feature as well.
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Thank you for all help. I converted the photo first. A small program does it. Also some free program generate gcode from stl.
the photoconverter is here..
http://www.ransen.com/PhotoToMesh/Default.htm
Actually more program fund on the web. Most of them $30-40. My concern with 3d toolpathing, very timeconsuming. Assuming 1/4
balllnose, with 0.025 stepover. Can be compared to a larger ballnose about 2-2.5 dia, and average passwidth is 0.75-1 inch.
Counting on a shopbot, and 300 ipm for finish, the different can be seen of comparing the 0.025 stepover in case finish, with 0.75 stepover in case a vcarving method.
What i fund interesting, the method as ucancam generate the conturlines.
Thank you again to taking time.
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I choosed a program, you can download here
http://www.mecsoft.com/Mec/Products/FreeMill.shtml
Loaded the picture, converted to stl..Done.
Hopefully a 2 weeks later I be smarter, after ucancam be on my computer.
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Hi Woodcarver,
Thx for posting the info