Machsupport Forum
General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: Budget Machine Tool on February 16, 2011, 11:35:20 AM
-
You may notice that I have a post going on a Bridgeport series I CNC mill with a 24 position ATC, but I have decided to do my lathe first. This machine will be easy in comparison to the mill and it is intended to take the place of my old lathe. Once it is done I'll sell the old lathe and free up some much needed floor space.
The lathe is a YAM-550 (tag on the back says model 1422) with a Anilam Lathemate II control. The control has 2 bad boards and who knows what else is wrong with it. The iron however is really nice.
Machine specs....
Swing over bed: 15.5"
Swing over slide: 9'
Between centers: 23"
Spindle bore: 1.750"
Spindle speed: (6) 128/238/422/847/1577/2800 RPM
Motor: 7.5 HP on 220VAC 3 Phase
Has a external oil cooler that cools the oil and pumps it back to the head stock.
What I want to control.......
X and Y axis DC servos (planing on using the OEM's)
Spindle CW/CCW
Oil cooler
Flood coolant (OEM 220VAC 3 Phase)
Mist coolant
Spindle brake
Planed machine inputs..........
Encoders X and Y
Encoder Spindle or spindle index pulse?
Limit switches X and Y
Foot brake stop switch
Planed operator inputs......
E-Stop
Cycle start
Cycle pause
Jog axis/spindle speed/feed rate selector
Jog rate 1/10/100 selector
MPG
Flood coolant on/off
Mist coolant on/off
Planed outputs.........
E-Stop Lt.
Tool change required Lt.
Cycle completed Lt.
X and Y axis DC servos
Spindle CW
Spindle CCW
Oil cooler
Mist coolant
Flood coolant
Spindle brake
Did I miss any thing? Is there something you think I should include that I haven't?
The OEM Servos are S.E.M. DC Perm. magnet.
Type: MT 30M4-59
Constant stall torque: 3 NM
Max RPM: 2400
Volts: 142
Pulse amps: 30
Tacho: 9-5/1000 RPM
I will replace these at some point, but hope to use them for now to keep cost under control. The OEM encoders are mounted to the ends of the ball screws and the servos are belt drive to the ball screws. The encoders are from Anilam and seem to be ok, but I plan to replace them any way.
I plan to use mostly equipment from CNC4PC for mt retrofit. I like the products that they have to offer and see that there are lots of people out there using them.
So the hardware that I plan on using for them is.....
1, C32 multifunction board
1, Smooth stepper board
7, C27 RJ45 to screw term. boards
1, C34DG Dugong RJ45 board
2, Dugong DC servo drives
1, C3 Index pulse card
and later add the MPG9 panel with PoKeys to get the rest of the I/O I want.
Mach 3 will run the system.
I haven't bought any thing yet, but plan on ordering stuff in the next week or so. If you have advice, input, do's, don't please let me know. Thanks
-
Pictures of a machine that is the same model as mine. I will add pictures of mine as soon as I get a chance.
-
The axis are X and Z on a lathe, just so you dont get mixed up once you load Mach Turn.
Sounds like a nice lathe, I would probably just keep the servos as SEM DC servos are pretty good from what I have seen and the Dugong drives should work great with them.
One thing I would do is use a PLC for I/O such as switches etc, reason is you can easily make them 24V which will be much more noise resistant than 5v. 5v can work fine but you have to be careful if you want to avoid noise. Just my opinion of course ;)
Hood
-
Ya you would think that should be second nature, but I have had the Bridgeport project on my mind for so long now that my thoughts are clouded. Thanks.
I for sure want to keep the servos to start off. Once I get it up and running I thought that I would see how they preform. My current CNC lathe is a manual that has been converted with ball screws powered by stepper motors and run by a Ah-Ha RC-500 so this should be far better even with the SEM servos. I hope.
How dose Mach 3 interface with the PLC? Is there one that you would use over another?
Thanks for your input. Interested in anything else that you can tell me.
-
The PLC talks over ModBus to Mach, it means you just have one cable from the PLC to the computers serial port and all communication goes via that. I use the DL06 PLC from Automation Direct. I use the D0-06DR model which has relay outputs.
Hood
-
I'll look into it. on a side note is Mod Buss better than PoKeys? I was planing on putting the PoKeys board right in the operators panel for many of the I/O's as it just looked so easy and it is part of the MPG9 panel.
Thank you for the help
-
Pokeys works well in any testing I have done, analogue inputs wavered a bit but not bad, I just prefer the industrial robustness of 24v myself.
Hood
-
What do you think about going with Optp 22's I have tons of the stuff sitting around and it's also easy to work with. I could put the Opto 22 relay rack in the back of the control panel and use the PoKeys 5V to trigger the relays and or vise versa use a button on 24VDC to pull a relay down to the 5VDC . I have a relay rack that has a 24vdc common and relays with 5VDC coils and a rack that I can set up for 5VDC Common and relays with 24VDC coils. Plus I have worked with the stuff quite a bit in the past. I just never thought of using it before.
Whats your thoughts?
Thanks again!
-
No experience at all with opto22's have not seen them much over here although I lead a sheltered life so maybe they are ;D
I know some of motion control boards in the future will support opto22 stuff but never looked into it.
Hood
-
Just got back to the shop tonight and started looking over the machine again. Started to look at things a bit closer as I am days away from ordering parts. Began removing some of the stuff from the control cabinet so I could get a idea of the lay of the land, as I am would like to re use the OEM power supplies. You know, if they work then you know the voltage/amps are what the servos would like kind of thing. Oh ya, and $$$.$$ kind of thing too. As I started to trace things out I started to wonder???????? Should I start off with giving the OEM servo amps a step/direction and see what happens? I cant see looking at them any thing that has had let the smoke let out of.
??? If I use them I wouldn't have to change out the encoders?? They are wired into the amps now, right??? I know, I know, they are not the state of the art drives that I had in mind and when one goes poof that I would never find another. That might happen on the first power up or some time long after I'm gone so I'm asking why not and hope that ya'll can tell why.
Another thing, and I know that this question should be posted in another part of the form. Dose Mach support more than one touch monitor at a time?
I have not used Mach before and just started to play around with the down load yesterday, but I didn't take me long to see why so many people are talking touch screen. I like the idea and see that it can make life much easier. Then I started thinking if it would support a second monitor (split screen kind of thing) why buy all the buttons and make a panel and, and , and. Why not put in a second monitor and set up virtual buttons? If I later decide I missed something I gust add it. No adding holes and trying to figure out how the hell to fit in one more button. No adding another wire, ect. I make them the size and shape I want and put them in a location that seem right. When I figure that I was wrong about the location of the button I just drag it to another location.
Well that sounds great too me, but can it be done?
I will take some pictures of the machine and the control panels and post them at some point on Monday.
Thanks for the help.
-
I would think your drives are liekley analogue, in other words they take +-10v rather than Step/Dir but if you could find a make/model then maybe some info could be found.
Regards the two screens, Yes and No is the answer. Mach does not support two screen setup (maybe it will in Rev4) but you could quite easily make up a screenset that is double the width and use the options in Windows to have both screens as one extended screen.
Hood
-
Hood, I bet that you are right about the drives. I'll have a look later to see if there is any info on them.
The screen thing, could you turn a wide screen sideways? Can the images be rotated?
-
Not sure what ypou are meaning regards the widescreen turning. Usually you can do that in your graphics card software, ie have it so it rotates the screen so that for example word docs tend to fit better as its more the shape of a bit of paper.
If you are meaning rotate things in Mach like toolpath and G Code window then no.
Hood
-
Thats more or less what I meant. Turn the wide screen on its edge and put the Mach GUI on top leaving the bottom part open to run another window containing the virtual buttons. I assume that Mach supports input of that type. As I have just downloaded the software I haven't had a chance to play around with to figure out all that it can do and what it wont.
-
I think you would really need to make a new screen so it fits properly, it would look rather odd if not.
Hood
-
Today was the first day that I have really worked on the machine. So for Ive got all the covers removed and checked out the X/Z axis movements. All seem good so far in the mechanical department. Movement are smooth and tight with no backlash problems. Ran the oil cooler unit and it was fine. Ran the spindle CCW and CW and every looks good and sounds great.
Started gutting the Anilam control cabinet all the way down. Removed every thing from the back plane except the components from the servo power supply and a 24 VDC power supply. The servo supply was set up to run on 220VAC (I will convert it to 220VAC later) so I put power to it and checked the output. It is putting out 110VDC at the cap. Not sure that is what it was supposed to be as the servos are rated at 142VDC, but I know that sometimes they dont run them at there full rated voltage. Any thoughts on this?
Now that every thing is apart and checked out it's time do do some clean up work and chasing down wires in the machine. Mose of the OE wiring will probable be re used as it looks to be pretty nice stuff.
-
Some more.
-
Nice chunky looking lathe :)
I just about bought one of these bolt on kits a while back but my lathe turned up just in time so didnt go for it, still half regret it as it would have been handy to chuck on the Triumph.
The 110v is very common, that and 90V, think its just that they dont need full speed from the motor so they use the lower vooltage than the motors rating. My Beaver mill had 140 or 160v motors but they were fed 90v from the amps.
Hood
-
and more
-
I liked the looks of the machine when I saw it in a auction preview, so I went to look at in person. I took a tool bag along in the off chance that they would let me pull the covers to get a look at the ball screws, ect. They had no problems with that, so I knew it was pretty good before I started biding.
Won the lathe for $301.00 and couldn't have been more pleased with the price. Once I got it out in the day light is when I started to notice just how well it was built. It is a Maniham (spelling?) casting and the YAM iron has a pretty good rep. As far as the Anilam CNC attachment all I can say is I'm impressed. Love they way they put it together and it's more than solid.
Did you notice the 2 speed gear box on the tail stock? The quill has a Std. and a rapid speed. Sure love the thought of that, but don't know how much I will use it on a CNC lathe.
-
My friend has a lovely Ikegai manual lathe with the two speed tailstock, its great for drilling, wind in on low gear and its a breeze, haul out in high.
As you say however, not likely you will use it much for CNC but still you could do drilling by manual means before letting the CNC rip :)
Hood
-
Any idea what kind of rapids I should be able to get out of the proposed setup?
-
With Mach dose the PC have to be booted before powering up the rest of the equipment or can the PC get it's power from the same disconnect?
-
The voltage will determine the RPM of the motors so you should be able to work it out roughly from there. Your 110v DC in may come out of your amps at a bit less than that so it wont be an exact figure but I would think if work on a 90V for the motors you will get a good idea of what you will get. What are the motors ratings?
Not quite sure what you are meaning regards the power, the way I have my machines is they are fed from a single supply, 3 phase 415v in my case, and then all hardware is powered from that. I have my machines so E-Stop kills all drives, motors, hydraulics etc. PC, PLC etc are always live unless main cabinet switch is off.
Hood
-
Hood, OEM Servos are S.E.M. DC Perm. magnet.
Type: MT 30M4-59
Constant stall torque: 3 NM
Max RPM: 2400
Volts: 142
Pulse amps: 30
Tacho: 9-5/1000 RPM
Ya, thats what I was asking about the power. I was thinking of building the PC into the control panel and that would mean the it couldn't get power until the 220VAC 3 Phase power is turned on to the machine.
Any idea how the PC would do in there with all the high voltage flying around? I'm kind of worried about about that part, but it sure would make it nice to have it built in and the CD and floppy drive excess on the front of the control panel.
Let me know what you think.
-
Well at a conservative estimate you should get around 1500 rpm but probably more, just depends what your drives will actually output.
I have the PC in the cabinets on my machines, see pic of the mills cabinet, PC is up top in the pic.
Hood
-
Looks good Hood. Got a pic looking down at your J1 breakout arrangement ?
It looks very space conscious but difficult to get at. ? ?
Nice !
-
Its a bugger to get a pic of the cabinet as it is close to the wall, that pic was before I had finished wiring. Will have a look see if I can find a pic of the connections, but they are easy to get to.
Hood
-
Ok, didnt realize. Dont bother, just curious. Are they just term strips, or pcb's with terms?
-
Heres an out of focus pic.
The Bridgeport will have these ;) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200576246680&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
Hood
-
Heres a slightly clearer pic of it before it went into the cabinet.
Hood
-
SWEET !
The eBay Zip Links will be nice. I have 3 but decided not to use them because of their size. Wish I had used them now because I made the cables with ONLY the I/O that I thought I'd need. Would rather have had every pin available at the terminal block ... wether I was using it or not.
Also, I see Automation Direct has Zip Links and cables that will work withthe DSD"s .. reasonable $ too.
Thanks Hood,
Russ
-
Holy Crap, Hood that is a piece of art. Do you take it to galleries?
You really do nice work. I saved the pictures of the panel that you made for your lathe project thinking that it would be nice to do something that nice for mine. Then I checked back with the real world and remembered that I just need mine up and running so that I can get the other one out of the shop. Typical small home shop with limited floor space. Not saying that I wont take the time on the Bridgeport CNC, but now.
Thanks again for all your help. Makes me wish I lived next door so I could pop over to lend a hand when you needed it or a cold beer from time to time.
-
Russ
I always tend to have more connections than I think I will need and a lot of the time they get used. I just got the interface boards and they are nice, only half the width of the others I have here, sadly I only got 3 from eBay so will have to use one of the bigger ones I have :(
All of the inteface boards I have seen for sale in the UK are £30 upwards for 37pin, I did get a deal a while back from a place that was clearing stock and I bought two 37 pin ones for £15 each and I am kicking myself that I didnt buy a few more.
Budget Machine Tool
Thanks for the comments but as I do each machine things get neater so hopefully the Bridgeports electric panel will be neater :)
My workshop is small as well, I now have 2 units so length is about 70ft overall but width is only 14ft, lathe is 7-8ft front to back, I only have a passage down the middle of about 2ft, I need to go on a diet ;D
Try and make the best control panel you can, you will be glad you did as it is in my opinion it makes working the machine so much easier.
Hood
-
Correction for previous post:
Appears the Auto Direct ZipLinks will work for the DDM drives with that God forsaken 50 pin connector, not the cool DSD's.
Dang near worth the $90 as they are a royal pina to make up, especially if using all available pins.
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Motion_Control/Servo_Systems/I-z-O_Interface_-a-_Communications_-a-_Software/ASD-BM-50A
Russ
-
You dont really need them all, for example you will be unlikely to need the analogue voltage inputs (+-10v) unless you will be using it with DSPMC etc, then if you are you wont be needing Step/Dir.
This is the ones I use and of them the encoder outs are not needed, well at the moment ;)
Hood
-
Sure, you wouldn't need all 50, I should have said "all available pins for your application".
Still, them little buggers are a P I T A !
-
Hood, sounds like you are pretty tight on space too. I don't know how you manage in a space that is 14' wide. My building is 63'X42', but I only heat 2 rooms in a part that is 26'X42'. However the room that has the machinery in it is 26'X21' and includes...
Lathes:
18"x120" Southbend
10ee Monarch
12"x36" CNC conversion lathe plus it's 2'x2' control cabinet
the YAM is an the place that normally has all the welding equipment in it.
Mills:
Bridgeport manual machine
Hurco CNC mill
Brideport ceries I CNC
Saws:
36" DoAll Vertical
18"x16" Johnson model J Horz.
a Reid 618 surface grinder
and tool boxes, carts, tooling cabinets, ect.
all in the one room. Now thats tight. Ill post a few pictures one of these days.
Thats why the YAM is a get er done project. At the moment I am having to do all welding/fab work in the un heated part and in Michigan its cold as he** at the moment. only 7 F yesterday morning and 23F for a high.
-
Good Lord ! ! !
All of that in 21 x 26 ? ? ? ?
Wow, that must be tight for sure.
You won't have to worry about a mouse problem, there's no room for one. ha
Anxious to see a pic, then I might be bold enough to post my rats nest. (only room for one rat ... ME )
-
Ya, the disaster that remains after re arranging to Jam one more machine in is the reason I don't post any now. Good lord what a mess. Trying to find new homes for things that had been in place for so long is proving to be difficult at best. I need to buy bigger shoe horn, but I dont know ware I would put that eater. The guy that helps me out when I get slammed call it the war zone.
-
;D
Hey, about the YAM, is that x,z assy clamped semi-perm to the original ways ?
Can you easily reposition it anywher you wish along the z axis ?
It is not powered is it ?
Might do something similar here with an older Hardinge.
Thanks
-
You are right on the money. It is a clamp on Assy. It can be moved if needed, but it has 2 taper pins holding it in it's current position. I have not checked to see if it is tram or not as I havnt leveled the machine yet. To move it all that would be needed is to pull the pins, loosen the clamping bolts and slide it down the ways.
I really like the way it is designed. It is a totally bolt on item. There is a junction box on the back with all connections done in one place. Motors, encodes, auto oiler, every thing. It all connects to the control cabinet with 1 section of seal tight with a 60 pin canon plug on each end. I'll try to spin the machine around and take a few photos.
It even has covers that bolt on to the unit. the front one is hinged with a large window and a water proof florescent machine light inside. Now how could you not like that?
-
Great, I dig it !
Didn't see it mentioned, do you have a turret for it ?
Most of the slants I've seen use one, or just a tool post.
The flat x axis type allow longer travel and better accommodate gang type tooling.
Not sure which I'll go with yet.
The more pics, the better, especially with the covers off !
Anxious to see the progression on this one.
Nice machine, just my size. :)
Thanks,
Russ
% (it's become a habit ;) )
-
Sounds like you are in a tight sport as well,and at least our temprature is on the rise now, dont have heat in the workshop at all and its been a cool winter, was down to -16degC around about Christmas/New year.
In my workshop the main storage space is the floor as there is no where else ;D
Heres a couple of pics before I did some rearranging, took me 3 weeks to get the place moved around and tidied but afraid its almost as bad again :(
Hood
-
This was it after 3 weeks, built a partition to split the welding part in half so that the Beaver was not getting covered in grinding dust and my desk is also now in the middle part opposite the Beaver mill.
Hood
-
Really proud of ya Hood on the clean up as the way it was before could never pass our shop inspection.
HMM......but now the poor puppy dosen't know where his laydown spot is any more. :D
RICH
-
Afraid it wont pass now then, its almost as bad, just been too bloody cold to get any enthuseasm to stay late to try and get a start on tidying.
Dogs never happy unless he has a pile of swarf to lie down in, and yes I am being serious he prefers swarf to soft materials ::)
Hood
-
Ho Hood, you sure know how to make a guy feel better. I would be so at home in your shop. I thought that my shop was the only one to look this way. Just to prove it I'll be brave and post some pictures of the damage latter tonight. I wouldn't want you to be all alone on this one as I did start the post. That just wouldn't be fair.
One of my biggest problems is time. The economy in Michigan has gone in the tank so I decided to move. Well, sort of any way. I rented my house (but not the building that houses the shop) and moved the family to Kentucky (6 hour drive) ware the economy is better. So now I come back to the shop for about 1 week a month. Problem with that is I work 40 hours or more of my week for my former employer. That just leaves me with the nights and 2 or 3 full days to do every thing that needs to be done in the shop.
The last trip to the shop I moved every thing around to get the Bridgeport moved in. The rest of the week I worked 9am to 5pm, plus 1 hour drive each way. Then when I got the the shop I ate and started cranking out parts some nights until 1am. I got all the jobs out in the one week, but had no time to do any thing but that.
Now how many guys do you know that spend a week a month sleeping on a CMM? For that matter how many CMM's do you know of that are that big? I'll post a picture of it as that is one machine that I am real proud of. I wish I had the money for something newer and about half the size as space is tight, but it sure is impressive when you walk in and see it.
-
Looking forward to the pics :)
I am an untidy person by nature I am afraid, think about tidying then pick up something and quickly forget, anything rather than tidy ;D It gets to a stage however that its getting dangerous so I have to bite the bullet and shut off the brain (what there is of it) and get stuck into the tidying.
Hood
-
Ok hear we go. Looking down on isle on the right is a 1927 Southbend 18x120. Has the tool post grinder on it right now ( How about the size of that thing). On the left is the DoAll 36" vert. band saw. On the end is the 10ee Monarch.
-
Almost forgot, that is a tool cart (crap catcher) blocking the isle in the other pictures.
The next isle. Roll away tool box on the right looking at the back of the DoAll with the Southbend on the end. Left side Lathe tooling in the tall cabinet 10ee on the end. Looking the other way down the same isle on the right is the CW lathe (CNC AhHa conversion). Parked in front of that with crap leaning against it is the Dust Cop dust collector. On the end is cabinets with all the drills, taps, e-mills, reamers, plug gages, ect. To the left of that is the Bridgeport manual mill (note the Tree head on it). Left of that is the milling tool cabinet and through the door is the office/inspection area. You know the CMM I call a bed.
Looking down that isle you see the Johnson model J horz band saw and the Hurco CNC on the left. Note the crap catcher cart in the way. on the end is the grinding/ band saw cabinet.
The other side of the same isle from the same end. the Hurco and Bridgeport CNC's and the Reid 618H on the end.
-
I forgot to attach the one that is the middle picture.
-
Looking in from the welding area.
-
Last ones tonight. Looking into the welding area. The YAM is sitting in the place that would normally have the welding table and 2 welders in it. The Fridge is on it's way out and behind that is the blast cabinet. To the right side is the oven (powder coating and curing glue for brake pads that I make) the oven is sitting on the 6000# cap. platform shipping scale. In front of that is the welding table and sheet metal brake. There is a double door that you cant see on the right and left. One set goes out side and the other set to the office area. The top above the door is removable all the way to the ceiling to allow the fork lifts room to come in and out. Then there is drawers and cabinets with hardware ect.
I still get work out of the shop even with the disaster, but it takes 10 times longer when I have to move things to use a machine. I'm workin on the clean up, it's just gona take some time.
I'll post the office and inspection area latter. Bet you don't feel bad at all now Hood.
-
JEESH ..... I now feel as though I have a Boley lathe in the middle of Ford Field ! ;D
I respectfully bow out of the competition.
I believe I have room for more machinery now.
Regards,
Russ :)
-
Great, I dig it !
Didn't see it mentioned, do you have a turret for it ?
Most of the slants I've seen use one, or just a tool post.
The flat x axis type allow longer travel and better accommodate gang type tooling.
Not sure which I'll go with yet.
The more pics, the better, especially with the covers off !
Anxious to see the progression on this one.
Nice machine, just my size. :)
Thanks,
Russ
% (it's become a habit ;) )
No I don't have a turret for it. I plan to try to fit one to it at some point, but I'm just going with the tool post for now. It will be a week or so before I can get it spun around to take some pictures of the back side, but I'll post them as soon as I can.
-
Well I am afraid you are too tidy, your lack of room is obvious but your tidyness is as well :)
My last workshop was a 12 x 19 fibreglass hut and the shape was much better for things as you could have storage in the centre, or even small machines, the long narrow workshop I have now is great but the shape is a PITA. Having said that my last workshop was a mess as well so it goes to prove I am just untidy ;D
Hood
-
I am about to retrofit a similar sized manual lathe, a 14x40 gear head import. I retrofitted a bridgeport factory cnc, a V2E3 a while back using the original SEM servos and dugong drives. That machine has worked flawlessly. Your sem servo's are the smaller brother to the ones I have. I believe you will be extremely happy with their performance. On the bridgeport, the servo voltage rating is the same and the factory voltage was 125V, I used the original supply. With 5 pitch ballscrews, 2:1 belt drive the mill does 250 ipm. I upgraded the encoders to the AMD capacitive units (cheap and high res) which may not be a bad idea for you also.
-
Sparky, thanks for joining in. I plan to upgrade the encoders to Digi-Key P/N: 102-1308-ND at a cost of $24.00 each I thought they looked like a good choice.
To all that are following along, I just finished ordering the parts from Arturo @CNC4PC. He has been great to work with through the planning stages. I get prompt responses to my emails and believe that indicates good customer service even after the sale. I originally chose CNC4PC because I liked the product options that they offered and I wanted to keep as many of the components with one supplier as possible. I felt that this would make tec. support simpler as well as replacement parts in the future.
I'll let ever one know when I have goodies in my hand. I can hardly wait.
-
You are right about Arturo at cnc4pc, he gets very high marks. I will be ordering goodies from him again soon.
-
He had every thing that I thought I wanted to use and is well thought of so I couldn't think of a better guy to but from. You'll notice my other post on the Bridgeport CNC and again he has all the goodies that I think I want for that machine too. I plan on keeping them as similar as possible, so that I could rob Peter to make parts with Paul if it ever came down to it. Can't wait to get the goods in my hands. I have been thinking about this for so long it will be nice to touch some new hardware.
-
The PLC talks over ModBus to Mach, it means you just have one cable from the PLC to the computers serial port and all communication goes via that. I use the DL06 PLC from Automation Direct. I use the D0-06DR model which has relay outputs.
Hood
Hey hood, if I were to go this direction would you be willing to work with me on it? I have worked with PLC's lots in the past, but as stand alone units running on there one ladder logic programs. This PLC linked to get give info and get info from Mach would be totally new to me. I'm sure that it's the better way to go, but I'm shying away from it as I have no experience with it.
-
Yes no probs. I dont really know much about ModBUS but I know about the serial version in Mach and how to set that up with a DL06 PLC, so if you have that no probs :)
The Modbus plugin I know nothing about, I never used it as to me its not so handy as you cant use VB with it as far as I know and no one has been able to say what benefits it has over using the old interface,I can only see its actually not as handy.
Hood
-
Well Iv'e been in and out of the shop lately, but I got the parts from CNC4PC and have started working on mounting boards and drives. It's hard to figure out how to cram all the crap in the original space. I'm starting to think about redoing the control cabinet. The OEM cabinet is in good condition, but it will be really packed when every thing is in it and it takes up floor space. If I mount a panel an the back of the lathe I could put all the power supplies and such back there. Then put all the other stuff in another panel and mount it on a arm that would swing out for ease of use and back out of the way when not. All good ideas, but I wasn't planing on putting that kind of time into this machine.
Also, I have been working on some of the basic wiring and have found the RJ45 connectors to be really annoying. I only went that way because the drives I planed to use had them for the Step/dir. and encoder input. Now I'm thinking of going with the C23 board instead. It probably wouldn't be so annoying to me if I wasn't so use to industrial wiring. I keep trying to do things the way I normally would and then go, oh ya that thing.
I will try to update with some pictures latter today or on Sat. as well as the pictures of the CMM that I keep forgetting to post.
The CMM specs.
Machine overall size: 120"w x 78"d x 132" t
Capacity: X=97" Y=48" Z=60"
Wait until you see the ceiling in the room. I'm sure you will get a laugh out of it. Picts. soon.
-
I think we have waited long enough, get your arse in gear and post these pics ;D
Not keen on RJ connectors myself.
Hood
-
Hay, quit checking out my arse. I know, I know, I'm running a little behind. I got caught up in other things. Sorry. With out further delay hear they are. The CMM First. I had packed up most of my stuff already, but that is a twin size mattress sitting on it. Remember, thats my bed when I'm at the shop.
-
I' trying to up load them, but the site won't let me do it at the moment.
-
I' trying to up load them, but the site won't let me do it at the moment.
Yeh yeh, whats the next excuse going to be ;D
Hood
-
cmm
-
cmm2
-
cmm3
-
The progress on the Yam back plane.
-
Took forever, but I finally got them to go. Worked out much better after I gave in and resized them.
I decided to play around with the Opto 22 option first. I had all the stuff sitting in front of me and thought what the hell. May wind up saving some money that way or maybe not. At least they are something I have worked with a lot in the in the past.
Still not sure about the OEM panel or this other one I have. The OEM is like the one in the pictures of the lathe that is like mine (white one). I'll post pictures of the other one that I'm considering in a day or so. Also had the question, is there any harm putting the power supplies and transformers in a remote location? Like a second panel just or them or the tail foot of the lathe? Or, is it a good idea to keep the servo amps as close as you can to the transformer?
-
Thats a beast, like the positioning of it too ;D
Hood
-
Just came across a Yam 550 CNC myself. I would like to know how this retrofit came out. I need to change out the encoders on my machine and would like to know how the Digi-Key P/N: 102-1308-ND encoders you used are working and what did you use for a spindle encoder?
Maybe you have some suggestions for me before I make a bad purchase.
-
What kind of state are the electronics in on the lathe? If the drives and motors are good you may want to look at some of the controllers that can output +/- 10v control signal.
The 3 main ones are
CSMIO/IP-A
DSPMC
Kflop with Kanalog.
Hood
-
The drives and servos are working. I was looking at using DSPMC because I have used it before but I think the encoders are single ended so I will have to get some differential encoders for the DSPMC to work.
Does Kflop with Kanalog use single ended encoders? If it will and I went with Kflop with Kanalog I would need to find out the wiring on the encoders.
-
Unless you are good at C ((or whatever language the Kflop uses) then I would say you should not bother with it. I have never used one but looked at them quite a few times and to set up anything more than a very basic machine you would need to do a lot of the coding yourself, or get someone to do it. Probably not that hard to learn if determined but its not for me.
I went with the CSMIO/IP-A and its the best controller I have used with Mach.
If you are comfortable with the DSPMC then maybe that should be your choice.
Regarding differential signals, just get ( or make) line drivers, cheap enough either way.
Hood
-
KFlop will work with single ended encoders, however I'm pretty sure the Kanalog requires a differential input as it has differential receivers which are then routed through to the KFlop single ended inputs.
If you've got some experience of programming, the amount needed for a KFlop isn't that much, as there are plenty examples included which you can cut and paste/adjust to suit.
-
I've been working on the control cabinets and a new paint job on the YAM 550 but I am almost finished and it's time for me to start thinking about the control to purchase.
I have been reading up on KFLOP and I think I could manage getting it to work for me but I'm also looking at the ethernet smooth stepper and some new drives DG4S-16035 for the SEM motors. If anyone has an opinion on which would be the better setup I would like to hear it.
-
ESS is fairly good but has drawbacks for me, main ones are it is just a basic board, no spindle control (Unless Step/Dir) so you will need some other board, the I/O is all 5v, so if wanting 24v (best for noise immunity) then you will need some means of converting and you really need breakout boards. The Step/Dir is just single ended, no Index Homing unless your servo drives support it. If using Step/Dir spindle then there are some issues with the ESS (seems to occasionally drop pulses for split second) Spindle Override makes things screw up, so I have mine disabled, also pressing Stop (after feedhold) will just suddenly stop the spindle pulses which is not good on a spindle with a heavy chuck.
The spindle issues may have been addressed in the latest plugins but I have not tried them, so cant say for sure but I would say probably not.
Threading works well with ESS , or has done for me.
Hood
-
I know that it will be hard to believe, but after much time away (from the forum, my shop, and machining in general) I have relocated and have been working on putting the shop back together. I have reduced the size of the shop, but have kept some of the machines and the YAM lathe is one of them I kept. While out in the shop on Saturday I started digging out all the components that I had bought to do the rework. After looking it over it came to me that I had most of the items that I would need to get it up and going. Then I went to see what it was going to take to get to the lathe as it was in the storage side of the new building. It was going to require quite a bit of work, but Sunday was going to be warm and looked like a great opportunity.
Sunday came and I enlisted the help of my wife to help me dig. By the end of the day we had the machine setting in a area that we were able to clear out. Plenty of room on all sides of it to get in to all the panels for wiring and updating components. We also managed to get to all of the other items that I had set aside for this project. The only thing that we didn't dig out was the front guard/cover. It is in the back most corner of the building on the floor in the actual corner. It would have taken hours to get it out and put all the other stuff back so I decided that it was going to have to wait until spring.
Today was spent cleaning up the AH-HA lathe that I have been using for years in an attempt to get it ready to sell. I am going to put a new spindle motor on it in the morning as it has been making lots of noise for some time now and I don't want to sell it as a running machine and have that looming. That should be the last thing to do to have it ready to go. Then it's on to working on the YAM for the first time in years. It's only been 5 years since I last worked on it. I even enlisted the help of a friend to ensure that drags on as long as possible.
Well I will do my best to post an update in a few days as to how the epic push for new CNC power goes.
-
Glad to see you back. I was watching this YAM intensely hoping to find one for myself, but have not seen one since.
Thanks for the update,
Russ
-
I can't believe you were still watching. Thanks for not giving up on me.
Today we got the motor mostly done on the AH-HA lathe. Still some work to do on the wiring for reversing to rotation. I had forgotten how much reversing single phase motors sucked to wire up. I also decided to wire it 110 volts rather than the 220 volts that it has been. The thought is that anyone would be able to take it home and plug it in and be up making chips in no time. At 220 volts some may shy away due to the need to run power before they could use the machine.
As for the YAM... we got the controls all but removed from the machine along with all the old wire. The spindle motor that was in it was 7.5 HP and I couldn't see ever needing that much power now that I am not running a shop for $$$$ and didn't see the need to pay the cost of running it when I don't need it. I had a 3 HP motor setting on the shelf so in it went. That part is done, belts on and all lined up.
We ended the day working on laying out the components in the new panel. Feels like 50 Lbs. of crap that needs to fit into a 5 Lbs. sack. Working in industrial electrical panels for so long now I can tell that I don't have the space to do the installation the way I would like. As much as I don't want to I can see that I will be cramming it in the panel. As far as I san tell I am only needing a few items. A relay board from CNC4PC, 5VDC, 12VDC, and a 24VDC power supply. I have power supplies, but feel that I need to buy smaller units and size them properly.
Nothing worth posting any pictures of happened today.
-
When you get to taking pictures, I'm interested in any/all detail that you could show pertaining to the dual slide assembly.
I'd like to copy that to put on a Wade lathe I have here.
Thanks again, will be watching.
Russ
-
Today went pretty well. Finished mounting most of the components in the enclosure and powered up with some temporary power supplies on the 5VDC and 12VDC. Made the connections from the lathe to the panel for the servos, encoders, and limit switch's. All of it ran in a single seal tight with cannon plugs on each end so it was a matter of installing the plug on the new panel. Then it was traced out from the OEM print and hooked up to the new pin outs in the new panel.
Work was started on retrofitting the encoders. I wanted to keep the body/enclosure from the old Analam encoders because they look like they will be tough and liquid tight. The other benefit is reusing the factory brackets, wiring, and couplings. When we took one apart it proved to be more work than I had thought it would be, but that didn't stop us. Once we had one completely apart I was able to come up with what we would need to do in order to make it work and it was off to the lathe to get started. In the morning we need to make new 1/4" shafts for them. Then drill and tap the mounting holes and put it back together.
Started to configure Mach 3 also. Looks like the Smooth Stepper is working good. I'm not sure we have the C32 BOB configured properly just yet. We did have movement on the X, but it would fault out. That's what I expected without the encoder providing feedback. However the Z was always in a fault state. Never took the time to look into it as there was lots of other stuff to work on and I am not sure of the BOB configuration.
The limit switches are configured and working. I think that was it so far.
-
I haven't given up I have just been busy working on it. One thing I didn't mention is that I just had back surgery 8 weeks ago so I am moving really slow at the moment. I have had a helper some days as I can't lift anything over 10 Lbs. and I can't bend over at all as of yet.
That aside, I have had the CNC attachment running and performing pretty good. The Dugong drives have proven to be somewhat of a pain to tune. I have them close, but they still need some fine tuning to perform to the best of there ability. On Sunday we got the panel mounted on the machine and the transformers put back in. Now I need to rewire every thing and hook up the stuff that I have not gotten to yet. So Up till now the panel was laying on it's back on a bench next to the lathe so I was a good work height for someone that can't bend over. Now that it is mounted working in it is more difficult for me, but I plan to keep chipping away at it.
I decided to buy some used touch screen monitors. One for this project and one for my Bridgeport that I plan to do next. I hope to see them by next week along with 2 new PC's.
-
Made chips for the first time today. Still have some quirks to work out, but it seems like I am getting close.
Question to anyone that may be able to help....
For some reason I get a limit switch fault in Mach 80% of the time when I try to energize the spindle. I am using the CNC4PC C32 BOB and a smooth stepper. I am using the 2 on board relays to pull in the motor contactors with 110VAC. One for M03 and the other for M04.The contactors will always pull in, but sometimes it is only momentarily and I will get the limit switch fault in Mach. Same result using Mach manual control or with M03/M04 programing. Nothing else is any place close to a limit switch. Could this be a shielding thing? It is the only 110VAC control that I have Mach doing at this point. Other times it works just as I think it should????
Russ,
How detailed would you like the pictures of the CNC attachment to be? I don't have all the covers buttoned back up yet so if you are interested in close up's of all the components I would be willing to take whatever you would like. Would you like them posted hear, emailed direct, or a link to photo bucket post? Let me know what you would like and I will get them to you.
Hood,
You still around?
-
Sounds like a noise issue, which is always a risk when using 5VDC for controls.
Have you wired everything with shielded cables, and making sure all the earths come back to a single central point with no earth loops?
You could try increasing the limit switch debounce setting, however that is really just a sticking plaster solution.
-
Just a few pics of the axis' motor / screw mountings.
Several if you will, don't have to be over 1 meg each.
Enough detail to aid ind duplicating .. maybe to a slightly smaller scale.
Check your PM's for address.
Thanks a bunch,
Russ
-
I did get the yam running with the Kflop if anyone needs any info I can dig up my paper work.
-
I did get the yam running with the Kflop if anyone needs any info I can dig up my paper work.
Hey Tr_G
i emailed you about your YAM lathe
i have an old warner swasey and a set of these anilam slides
i am close to getting material to make the cariiage plate but Tr_G's YAM does not have it
and im wondering how it is suspended behind the ways like it is
here is a crappy pic of my lathe:
as you can see ive got the slides hoisted and floating in midair waiting for the next step lol
if anyone else has any suggestions as to how to do this id love to hear them
please help :)
-
Sorry for the delay. I did get it running. I used the SEM DC servos and Dugong DC servo drives as planned the first go around. It ran well and had good power and I was pretty happy with it. However as it sat it was not really finished. The wiring needed to be cleaned up and the electrical enclosure mounting location was not something I liked very well. So I decided to take on the project of redoing it all to get it to be what I knew it should be.
After I got the Yam going I took on a NASA III mill retrofit and I was super happy with all aspects of the build. I used that as my inspiration for what the Yam should be when it was finished this time. That also lead me to changing the DC servos and drives out. On the mill I used the hybrid stepper motor and drive combination from Automation Technologies and have been nothing but happy with them in every way so I decided I wanted to use the same in the Yam. This will give me a drive and motor on hand that I could rob in the event that I ever had a failure and needed to run.
I'll get some pictures of the Rev 2 build up.
-
Some pictures of the current condition of the Yam. It was running on 12/13/17 with the DC setup and back up and running with the hybrid drives and motors an 12/24/17 and made parts. I still need to do some cleanup work in the electrical enclosure. The swing arm that the monitor is mounted an is a mach up to insure I like the geometry before making up the final arm. It will be 3.5" ID tubing and all of the wiring will run through it to the drive enclosure. The PC then mounts to the back side of the arm behind the touch screen monitor monitor. Another part of the delay in getting finished up is waiting on the new touch screen monitor as the old one bit the dust just a few weeks before I started the Rev 2 rebuild.
Another big advantage of the Rev 2 build is that the lathe is now fully 220 VAC single phase. The Hybrid drives are 120 VAC single phase and the spindle and oil cooler unit were taken from contractor control to VFD control. The ABB VFD drives are 220 VAC single phase in and give you 220 VAC 3 phase power output. Along with that you get the ability for constant surface feet per minute speed control instead of being locked into one RPM.
I will take pictures of the mounting arrangement on the back side and get them posted as well.
-
Lets try this again
-
2 more
-
I hope this helps with what the components are and what they do. Power flows in the cabinet like this....
220 VAC in to Manual Disconnect. (Top left hand corner), (latter I will install the through the door handle.)
From disconnect to Main line fuses (Just to the Right of the disconnect)
From Main line fuses to top side of contractor (Just to the right of the main line fuses). One leg (110 VAC) is tapped and sent to a switch. When the switch is turned on the 110 VAC is applied to the contractors coil pulling it in.
When the contractor is pulled in power is applied to the 2 FVD drive inputs as well as the small fuse holders that power the 2 Hybrid Stepper drives, 5 VDC power supply, and power to the relays on the Quad Relay board and the system is ready for work.
I finally remembered to take pictures of the way Anilam attached the thing to the machine.
-
More views of it
-
Yet more views.
The top plate is cast iron and has T slots in the bottom of it. It is laid over the bed and shimmed up (one piece front and back). T nuts are placed in the slots with studs, the plate is put in place over the studs. They have placed some kind of shims between the plate and the bottom side and face of the lathe ways that looks to be hardened steel. Then the plates are tightened with nuts and SHCS to hold the plates to the bottom side of the top plate.
The plates have holes drilled and tapped into them and they used set screws in these holes to tighten the hole works to the machine as well as the ones in the spacer plate for tramming the attachment to the lathe center line. 2 holes in the front plate and 2 in the bottom plate have 3/8" dowel pins in them both front and back side of the machine. I would assume that these are drilled into the lathe after everything is in place and verified good to go, then pinned to insure everything stays in place. With the pins I can see in mind I assume that the all of the parts that are bolted together are pinned some place even though I don't see the pins. Looks as if it was pretty well thought out out.
I will say that it has proven to be a very ridged combination between the Analam attachment and the YAM lathe. With the new drives and motors I am as happy as ever with this lathe. I do still need to finish a lot of the clean up details and get a new touch screen for it, but it is already more machine than it was before. The swing arm monitor has proven to be a really user friendly way to go. I did it on the Mill conversion and used the same idea on the YAM with the idea of it being off to my right side along with the MPG for setup and over the machine for running parts. It's also nice and out of the way like that.
-
Had a problem with the attachments
-
Thanks for the pics and detailed description of the mounting.
Looks to be very well designed .... plenty rigid.
Russ
-
I have liked this lathe from day 1. Not sure if I ever mentioned it in a post in the past, but I found this lathe listed in an online auction. When I saw the pictures I decided to make the drive to see it in person before bidding on it. After inspection I had found it to be in hardly used great condition. Slightly rusty and covered in years of dust, but no wear. It did not run, but I intended to do the conversion so it didn't matter. I bought it in Detroit in 2008 when the auto industries were suffering and all the shops that did work for them were going under. Paid a whopping $301.00 for it plus the $50.00 to get it loaded on my trailer. With what I paid for it and have invested in it over the years it may as well be making silver dollars when it runs. I have had better looking equipment over the years, but seldom has a machine had such a good return on investment.
-
Yes, I remember when you first posted it. Been watching for one similar ever since. I did find an older Clausing 15" with a similar slide assy on it but it was a it big for what I'm wanting. Could have bought the entire rig for $500 but a 4 hr drive each way was the other reason to pass on it.
I have everything now to build one for my Wade, your pics and descriptions will definitely help ...... if/when I get started on it.
Thanks again,
Russ
-
The PLC talks over ModBus to Mach, it means you just have one cable from the PLC to the computers serial port and all communication goes via that. I use the DL06 PLC from Automation Direct. I use the D0-06DR model which has relay outputs.
Hood
I just sold off the DL06 that was in my machine. Replaced it with an Automation Direct DoMore BRX plc. Programming software is free. The BRX models go up to 36 digital I/O, and 4 analog inputs, 2 analog outputs and 8 of the inputs are highspeed to 250Khz, 8 of the outputs are highspeed to 250Khz, Built in Ethernet and serial, plus a POM module that can add another ethernet port, or serial, or Profibus. Add on expansion modules up the wazoo, no rack limitations. Has an SD card slot for backup or data storage, and can send emails and text messages. Way better programming techniques and software, and the Autotune PID loops will blow your socks off!
We are so impressed that we are switching our whole product line over from another AD PLC and it is saving us $1200 in hardware costs alone!
-
I have been in love with the Automation Direct PLC's for some time. The newer Productivity series is what I have been using in 90% of my work related projects and I have been super happy with them in every way. DL05 & DL06 still have a place, but these things are fantastic at everything I have used them on. When I get done with my next round of upgrades I will have 23 of my 26 at PLC's at work converted to AD. No thoughts of going back.