Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Kai on February 09, 2011, 05:38:45 AM
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I have a starturn running on mach3 no problem at all but it has a 8 tool rotary tool post at the monent this is just set to the coolant button.
I was told the man to speek to is Hood hope thats ok Hood.
I was going to send a pm but if I get any advice I thought it would be better to be in the forum for others.
Just a general at the moment but if anyone can shed light on getting it to work with a code call to change that would be great.
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All depends how your turret works as to how you will do it.
Hood
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WOW that was quick ;)
Ok stupid question but what are you meaning.
At the moment i press the coolant button and hold it untill the tool turns to the one I want then le go it moves back a little and locks in that position.
Is this what you ment
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Have a nose here.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,1882.0.html
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here's the electrical diagrams for it.
http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=585
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I think I got it but it sort of came across as way over my head. If it is wired to mach3 now on the button I have can this just be told to rotate untill it is at the tool post I want?
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Not looked at the info in the posts properly, will have a look in a bit but likely if its a normal motor then you will need some feedback to Mach to let it know if its indexed and to shut off the motor. If it was a stepper it could be done without feedback but still best to have some just in case.
Will look later on, probably this evening as have a load of work to do today as the boats are not at sea due to bad weather.
Hood
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I think I got it but it sort of came across as way over my head. If it is wired to mach3 now on the button I have can this just be told to rotate untill it is at the tool post I want?
Yes, just call the coolant on and use a pause for the time it needs to be on, then call coolant off. So it would be
M8
g04p?
M9
Set the time in place of the ?
M8 starts the toolchange, g04p? sets the time it has to rotate to get past the ratchet, and M9 cancels the toolchange.
When the toolchange is cancelled by the M9 command the toolpost reverses and locks in position, then use multiple commands to move the changer more than one position, or work out the time it takes to move to 2,3 or more changes and enter that time.
There are people working on the code/vb script needed to use the denford control of the toolpost but i don't think anything has appeared yet.
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Do you reverse the motor to lock it against a pawl like is in the links above?
Relying on a G4 would definitely not be my choice unless I was standing at the machine all the time I was using it as there are no safeguards at all doing it that way but everyone to their own.
I have had a quick look at the docs and it seems like there are optical switcches there to show position so thats the way I would go, it would however require at least 3 spare inputs and 2 outputs.
Hood
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using the denford logic is the better way to guarantee the movement of the toolpost.
The motor is automatically reversed to lock.
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Does the motor stay powered when locked or does the power get switched off after it has locked?
What do the optical switches look like physically? are they slotted type?
Hood
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the motor stays powered but at a lower voltage, holding it on the pawl. The optical switches look like they are reflective and are OPB 704 and there are three of them.
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I am afraid I am not an electronics guy so cant really say how things would connect to the parallel port, would imagine they are outputting 12v at the moment.
Not great at VB but it looks like it should be straightforward as well.
Any idea which optos are for each tool, eg top and middle on and lower off may be tool 1
Does the motor just work via a relay? In other words when the relay is closed the motor is supplied the low voltage to hold it one way, when the relay is powered then the direction is changed and the voltage is 24v?
Hood
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yes the motor is powered forward by 24v, and when the relay is off the motor is reversed and supplied with 12v. I believe this 12v may have been lowered on newer models.
The logic side is called greycode, and i'll try to find a better link for info.
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this may help
http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=1464&p=10777&hilit=starturn+5#p10777
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Well I reckon similar to I use in my macro would work fine if you could get the inputs to Mach and have the relay worked via an output. Here is what the first two tools would look like according to that pdf.
If GetSelectedTool=1 Then
Do
ActivateSignal(OutPut1)
If IsActive(Input1) And IsActive(Input2) And IsActive(Input3) Then Exit Do
Loop
DeActivateSignal(OutPut1)
End If
If GetSelectedTool=2 Then
Do
ActivateSignal(OutPut1)
If IsActive(Input1) And IsActive(Input2) And Not IsActive(Input3) Then Exit Do
Loop
DeActivateSignal(OutPut1)
End If
Hood
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Just to clarify, you wouldnt need to use these specific inputs and outputs if you already use them, its just the first ones I chose when I wrote it.
My turrets work via a PLC over modbus but my macros are similar with the exception of each tool just has a single input to Mach as the PLC will put out a signal depending on the switch sequence. My front turret works a bit differently but sort of the same idea ::)
Hood
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Hi, I think my toolchanger is the same. I have a Denford Orac. You will need 3 inputs for the opto sensors, be careful with connections as the voltage going to the turret is 24v so you will need some electronics to get down to TTL levels.
I have attached my toolchanger macro that operates my toolchanger, have a look and perhaps Hood could help you make it better as it was my first attempt at macros, it does work I have been using the lathe pretty much every day for the last 6 years but now and again during a toolchange Mach seems to forget which tool it needs and the changer just spins aimlessly until I intervene. I have never sorted that and as it happens only once in a blue moon it is more bothersome than annoying but I would like to know why.
Hope this is of some help
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could it be done with two inputs to mach, with a microswitch for tool position one, and eight positions on another micrswitch for the tool positions. You call tool position one first then it knows where it is and can go from there.
is that possible to control
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Wow I have had to go out for the day so sorry for not being here but many thanks for getting as far as we have.
I am not a wiz with electronics but very good at following instructions and don't mind being a guinipig for this as I would love to get it sorted out and working.
Then when the next chap asks we will have an answer for him.
If you want me to do anything or need to get somthing like parts please give me chance as I got made redundent and have been forced on sick when Ireally want to go back to work so right now they are not giving me nothing so I have to find little jobs to cover the cost of bit for the workshop.
But hey if you can tell me what to do I will give it a go and see what gives
many thanks from the dim whitted owner
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Electronics is not a problem for me so I'll try to help the best I can. It is also a bit difficult as my Orac has a home made breakout board so the setup will be different.
I'm assuming that you have bought the machine as it is with Mach running it and not done any mods yourself.
The motor forward and reverse is already setup in Mach as you have said which is a good start.
The next thing to check is the wires coming from the toolchanger coloured mauve,white and blue. Do these wires go to a circuit board (breakout board). I'm hoping that they may already be connected for use. These 3 wires are for the opto sensors to detect tool positions.
Perhaps a few photos will help to see what you have. It would be helpful to know what breakout board is used to interface with Mach.
Sorry to hear you got made redundant, I'm sure we can sort this with a small budget. Once I got my lathe up and running it has been making me money ever since so I hope yours will do the same for you.
cheers
John
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Thanks for the help I will have a look tomorrow for the wires, angel tech on here did the machine for me so I will ask him what board was used as he did it and will take pics of what ever you want lol also thanks for the help with this to everyone that has pitched in