Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: rickw on January 29, 2011, 11:11:33 AM
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I have just built a new machine and I am trying to get it to move. I am starting at the beginning with the video tutorials and hit a snag already. The drivertest file will not run to indicate other issues. I have tried installing the latest version of Mach3 but it still will not run. I am running Windows 7 (32bit) on a desktop. I think the driver might be the culprit because the motors are energized but will not move. Any advice would be welcomed as I have been trying to get the motors to turn for two days.
Thank you in advance!
Rick
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If you close Mach and go to the Mach3 directory on your drive and double click on Mach3Test.exe does nothing happen or does it open and just show nothing?
Hood
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There is no Mach3test.exe file just the DriverTest file. However, when I click on the DriverTest file, nothing happens. I just registered the program today but it didn't work before registration either. I also have the latest version as of today.
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Sorry yes thats what I meant ::)
You may need to install Mach with Administrator privileges in W7, I have never used it so not sure but check to see if you have done that.
Hood
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I'm not sure what that means or how to do that. I am the administrator in W7 on this system. How do I install Mac with Admin privileges?
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I would imagine if you installed it when you were logged in as Admin then thats all that would be required.
Have a look in device manager and see if the pulsing engine is installed.
Hood
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It is installed and according to Device Manager, working properly. I can't believe how difficult it is to get this to run.
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Dont know what to suggest, afraid I have never used W7 32 but a lot do and it seems fine for them.
Hood
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I have removed all wire ties and verified every connection and it is wired correctly. However, I did find a discrepancy with the EStop and possibly the limit switch connections. I do not have an EStop wired yet but I do have limit switch wiring connected according to the Keling schematic which indicated to land connections to #13 and 5v on the input side of the BOB, next to the power connections. The schematic also shows the eStop connections landing at #10 and 5v pins on an input connector, next to the output motor/driver connections as shown in the BYO CNC book, page 213 fig 19-4. However, according to fig 19-4, it looks as if the connections are landed on #10 and #11 with the 5v skipped. I thought this might be an issue with the limit switch connections so I disconnected the wires from those terminals to see if this was a problem and still no motor movement. I would like to know the correct connection assignment for both the EStop and limit switching. On page 212, fig 19-3, the book states to land one connection on #10 but does not specify the second connection. Is it 5v or #11.
Just to clarify and limit redundancy, I have the following set up:
Mach3 set up on W7, 32bit, licensed user
New motherboard/CPU on desktop computer
New parallel cable
LPT1 driver installed and working properly
Device Manager shows Mach X pulsing engines and driver installed and working properly
X,Y,Z, and A axis with A set as a slave to X due to two X axis drive screws
Motor input pins set to x-2/3, y-4/5, z-6/7, a-8/9, all set to port 1/1
Port 1 is enabled with the same address as W7, 0x378
Kernel set to 25000Hz, no other items enabled
EStop input enabled, port 0, pin 15, active low (no limit switch yet)
5.5v to the EN side of the BOB
BOB C10 jumpers all set to 1/2
BOB/motors/drivers wired exactly like the BYO CNC book example
All motors engaged but no movement, will not turn once engaged
Mach3 will indicate spindle movement but no actual movement
Software will not run DriverTest within Mach3 directory in W7 to resolve further issues
I am not sure what to do next...........
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Are you able to stop Reset flashing? If not then change the active state of the E-Stop until you get one fitted.
Do you have the correct port address set in Mach.
If you attach your xml I will have a look to see if there are problems with it.
Hood
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Are you able to stop Reset flashing? If not then change the active state of the E-Stop until you get one fitted.
Do you have the correct port address set in Mach.
If you attach your xml I will have a look to see if there are problems with it.
Hood
The reset works and I can input code and get the axis to move on the screen but no actual movement. I'm not sure which port you referring to but the axis ports are all set to 1 and the LPT port is set to 1 and a value of 378. I'm not sure what you mean by attaching the xml. I know its a file but not sure how to get it or what it does yet. I am new at this and trying to get movement before I proceed in the learning process.
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I tried to attach the xml file but this forum would not allow that type of file extension to be attached. I can email it to you if you like.
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The forum only allows a file name once so you will need to copy it to a different location on your drive and rename to something like rickw.xml
Is the port you are using one on the motherboard or is it a PCI port?
Hood
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It is connected to the motherboard and is new, not that that means much. I wanted to hook up another computer to it but the only other one I have is a laptop with W7/64 bit installed.
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I tried renaming it and still will not work. I copied it to the desktop and renamed it rickw.xml but when the file shows attached, it shows rickw.xml.xb30 and still get the error message that can't attach this type of file.
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How can I troubleshoot the BOB and cable? Will it work if I run code and check DC current as the axis is supposed to be moving? If I probe from GND to 2, 3, or 4, whichever is supposed to be energized?
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Ok the address will likely be fine as thats the normal for an onboard port.
That is one of the backup xmls you are trying to attach, you want to attach the one thats in the main mach3 folder and not in the xmlbackup folder.
You could put a voltmeter between the Dir pin and Gnd of the port and jog that axis, the voltage should change between 5v and 0v as you change directions, you can do that for all axis.
One thing however, have a look on the diagnostics page and see if you get a frequency there, also a time in int. The frequency should be steady and close to what you have the kernel on Ports and Pins main page set to, the Time in int will jump about though, thats normal.
If you dont get these readings then the driver is not working.
Hood
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Here is the xml file, I think....
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XML looks fine, so important thing is what does Time in Int and Frequency show on Diagnostics page?
Hood
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The time in Int is jumping all over, 5, 6, 7....When I type in code and the axis shows movement, the pulse freq remains at 25003 (set for 25000). blended spd also w/buffer load. What is this telling me?
The frequency is 25003 now with nothing in movement. Is this correct?
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Blended Spd was about 10 and buffer load was 14%
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Ok thats good and it means driver is working fine.
Test with a meter at the port like I mentioned and see if you get the voltage. You can also test the Step pin to Gnd with the voltmeter, depending on the active low setting you will either see 5v and go slightly lower as you jog or 0v and maybe 200mV (depends on frequency) as you jog. If you are seeing that then test at the far end of the cable.
Hood
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can you be more specific? Dir + or -? And not sure what you mean by step pin. I am trying to follow but remember I am new at this. If you can be more specific I can follow and do everything you ask.
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Ok on your parallel port you have a pin which is set up in Mach for the Dir pin of each axis. I cant remember what it is but if you look in Ports and Pins Motor Setup you will see which one you have set for each axis. Remove the cable from the port and put the voltmeter between the Dir pin for X and the other lead of the meter to a Gnd pin (18 to 25) or the metal case of the port. Next jog X one way then back. Do the same for all axis but obviously changing the lead on the meter to the appropriate pin. Step is just the same except it is the step pin which you have set in Mach for each axis that you need to test.
If you still are not sure I will try and explain a bit better, often I dont explain things very well :(
Hood
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I'm so lost....On the ports and pins, X is set to step 2, dir 3 and I'm not sure how that corresponds with the cable and cable pins.
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Before we go any farther, is the BOB numbers corresponding to pin numbers?
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The Dir pin is 3 and that is the pin on the port that you need to connect to.
Heres a pic out of the manual showing the port on the back of your computer with the pin numbers.
Hood
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Before we go any farther, is the BOB numbers corresponding to pin numbers?
Normally they do.
Hood
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ok, hold tight, I have to change the pin numbers in Mach to match the pins on the BOB.
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fingers crossed :)
Hood
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What screwed me up was having four motors instead of three when referring to the set up in the book. I get no voltage at the correct pin when the machine is in motion. The cable is good, just checked every pin for continuity. Now I will rig up a mall wire to test the port, my meter probe is to large for the LPT port holes. I cant tell you how much I appreciate the help. I am going to test them now.
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No voltage coming from the correct pin from the port. Its a new motherboard and CPU. There is constant voltage at pins 10, 11,12, and 13 but none on the correct ones when in motion.
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I'm not sure what to do now because it could be the port that is bad but W7 says the port is functioning properly. I'm not sure why the DriverTest file will not work. But that could give me some indication why things are not working.
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I am not sure if the driver test actually works in W7 but if the frequency on the Diagnostics page is showing and the Time in Int is there as well then it would seem to be fine.
Double check that the port addrress is correct by looking at the port in device manager and seeing its resources tab.
Hood
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Both are set to 0378. I downloaded a parallel port monitor but cant run it due to W7 permission issues. It says I have total control but I still get error messages.
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Both are set to 0378.
I am meaning what is the address in Windows, whatever the address is in windows you need to set that as Port 1 in Mach. 0376 is the norm for an onboard parallel port but it may not be so you will have to check in device manager in Windows.
Hood
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I checked in device manager, under resources states I/O range 0x378. I have even went into the bios and changed the type of port to EPP (enhanced parallel port) and ECP (Extended capabilities port) but no difference. I also changed the addresses and matched them in Mach but nothing is working. I have a hard time believing the port is bad. It is out of my realm of expertise to troubleshoot now. I'm not sure if its the hardware or software communicating with the hardware. As I said earlier, the board is new and how often does the parallel port go bad on a board? I need an old style printer to test it. Not sure how else to test it, short of taking it to a computer repair shop. I'm not sure how they would test it there either.
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Ok simple test, go to Ports and Pins Inputs and set up X++ limit switch to Port 1 Pin 11 and then save and take Mach out of reset. Next change to diagnostics page and then touch a wire between Pin 11 and Gnd on the port and see if the LED for X++ changes state when you do that.
Hood
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Ok simple test, go to Ports and Pins Inputs and set up X++ limit switch to Port 1 Pin 11 and then save and take Mach out of reset. Next change to diagnostics page and then touch a wire between Pin 11 and Gnd on the port and see if the LED for X++ changes state when you do that.
Hood
You lost me after resetting Mach. I have set the limit and pin but what pin 11 and ground? What port and LED are you referring? I have no idea what you are talking about.
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Ok, Config menu then Ports and Pins then Inputs, set X++ to Port 1 Pin 11, apply and exit. Press the Reset button so that its not flashing then go to the diagnostics page. Next take a piece of wire and touch it between Pin 11 and the metal case of the port on the back of your computer. As you touch it you should see the LED on diagnostis page for X++ change state.
Hood
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If you meant to unplug the cable and check the pins for current, all pins from 1-13 have 4.56 v to ground on the cable plug.
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I am wanting you to short Pin 11 to Gnd so that if Mach is seeing the port you will see the LED for the X++ Limit switch on the diagnostics page change from Off to On or vice versa depending on the active state you have set in ports and pins. If the LED does not change state and you are positive that you are touching the wire to the correct pin then Mach is not seeing your port or the port is not functioning properly.
Hood
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The program will not let me reset the switch and it does indicate limit switch triggered. I will try and plug in the cable to reset the red button. When unplugged the cable, the computer sounded as it knew the cable was attached. This lead me to believe the port is functional.
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Ok either change the active state of the limit as in my pic or connect the wire like you are going to do.
Hood
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The problem I am having is that when I unplug the cable, the limit triggers again and must be reset. I can only reset it with the cable plugged in. When I unplug, the limit triggers.
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Ok look at the pic I posted, it has a green tick in the active low for the X++ limit setting, do that and you should be able to reset, if not then check that your E-Stop input further down that page also has the green tick.
Hood
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I set to active low and it reset without plugging in and grounding pin 11 made no change to the diagnostic screen, as far as I could tell.
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Ok if you are 100% sure its pin 11 you connected the wire to then Mach is not seeing your port or the port is not working.
Hood
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I checked a few more times and no change on the screen.
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Wait! I touched a few other pins and there was a change on the screen and I tripped a limit by accidentally hitting another pin.
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Pin 2 changes the current state and pin 3 trips as a limit switch. This tell me the software is communicating with the cable.
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You are probably looking at the port backwards, look at the drawing I posted way back in the post, it represents what you see on the back of the computer, ie the correct orientation.
Hood
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I was at the end of the cable instead of the computer. This made it easier to contact the pins.
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ok so at least you now know which is pin 11, its what you were thinking was pin 3, so you can now go and check the Step and Dir pins as mentioned previously.
Hood
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Pin 1 is on the long side far right. I have many pins causing changes on the diag screen. Scratch that, I am looking at it backward.
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Can you repeat what I should check now please? I am not sure what we are looking for now. I have spent so much time on this I can't remember what I have tried this time.
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Ok look at what pin you have X Dir set to, put your volt meter between that pin and gnd on the port then jog the X one way then the other, you should see the voltage change. Do the same for Y and Z.
Hood
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There is only .050v showing when the axis is moving but there is 4.42v on pins on 10, 11, 12, and 13 which is always constant, never a change on those pins. What is this telling me? The port is functional but the software is not regulating the correct current? X, Y and Z show no current while moving.
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It looks more like a software issue at this point.
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I am going to have to take a break and try something different tomorrow morning. I have too many hours on this now. Thank for your help. I'm not sure what to try next.
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This is a message I received from Scott at Mach Support:
The only time you should see a voltage change for the axes is on the direction pints when they change direction - unless you are looking at the pulse train with an O-scope, you will not see any voltage change on the step pins. If you are seeing inputs activate when you ground pins, though, I do not think you are having a problem with Mach outputting signals - the driver either works or it does not, if you can see inputs it is sending outputs. My question to you would be does that breakout board need or expect a Charge Pump signal, and if so do you have it configured? The motors are getting power, but do they need any sort of an Enable signal before they will run? Also, you may need to adjust the pulse width of your step and direction signals (which you can do in Motor Tuning), depending upon how sensitive your drives are...
I am not sure if the C10 board requires a charge pump signal to run.
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Scott is actually not quite correct there ;) You will see a voltage on the Step pin but as I said way back in this thread it will depend on the active state you have the Step pin set. You will either see 5v and it dropping slightly when you jog or you will see 0v and it increasing possibly a few hundred mV. The reason you will not see the full 5V increase or drop is because it is a pulse so your meter will only pick up the average increase/drop. Of course a scope is the ideal thing to use to view this but I suspect you dont have such a thing ;)
Regards the charge pump it could well be that you need that as I know nothing of the CNC4PC boards but the documentation will tell you I am sure. At least we now know your port is functioning properly now you have tested at the correct pins.
Hood
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I have a C10 board, identical to the one used in the book, so we should be able to find the problem since there are so many similar applications out there. Can anyone reading this thread off some advice?
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Look at page 6 of the manual, you need a 5v feed and you will also see there is an enable, you either need to use it with a switch as in the drawing or you could have a permanent enable by jumpering a wire between the +5v terminal and the enable. Do you have that?
Hood
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I will check.....what manual are you referring? All I have is the book.
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If you are talking about the EN, yes I have a jumper, which is the same as the C10 in the book. I have 5v there at the EN switch. That is one of the first things I checked. Nothing has changed about the lack of voltage from the pins. I would like to do some more troubleshooting if possible. I just dont know what to do next.
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Please be sure you are checking the correct pins on the port as we discovered you were on the ports Pin 3 when it should have been 11 when testing the Limit switch. Next is check at the port , I know its more awkward but it will rule out cable issues.
Hood
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Okay, I am testing the port itself now for voltage as I move the axis'. I will do all three.
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It is very strange. I typed in g00x10 to give me plenty of time to test and I actually showed 5v at the pin but after doing it again to verify a repeat, now nothing. All three are nothing now. This is so frustrating.
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When I say nothing, I mean .025v, it does go from 0 to .025v during movement.
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I was very suprised to get 5v! but then get nothing after........I don't know what to do now.
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I actually get the .025v all the time, it doesn't matter if the axis shows movement. I wonder if there is a way to check the parallel port if I take it to the computer shop? Although I am not convinced it is the motherboard/port.
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I wanted to offer a view of my setup.
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And this.......
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Is that the direction pin for the axis you are measuring at? If it is have you jogged both ways as you will see 5v one way and 0V the other.
If it is the step pin then you will probably be seeing correctly as it will be 0v at rest and because it is a pulse coming out your motor will read the average voltage of the pulse which will just be mV which is what you are seeing.
Hood
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You are so right!! I read 4.45v on all three axis' in one direction when jogging. So now we know we are getting voltage but I want to do it with the cable plugged in to rule out the cable.
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At the end of the cable there is 4.45v on all Dir pins. Now what?
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Here is a question. If I jog x axis both ways, I also get 5v on the BOB corresponding pin screw. So the motor drivers are seeing the correct voltage. This is working for all three axis' including the slave which reads the same as its host which is X. Now what?
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Ca you explain the dip switch settings?
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You will need to look in the manual I dont know what drives you have. If you attach the manual I will look. Also these Chinese drives require an enable, you can have a permanent enable like on your BOB but check out the wiring diags in the manual. The other thing about these drives is they can be set for CW/CCW or Step/Dir, you need them set for Step/Dir
Hood
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You keep mentioning the manual. I do not have a manual or any documentation, just the book and they are set the same as the example in the book. This is why I am having such a hard time with this. I have nothing to refer to except the book. I purchased the drives from keling. How do you check the setting or set to step/dir?
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I am not happy about purchasing $500.00 worth of electronics and receiving no documentation with it what so ever. I have been trying to contact him (keling) and he will not respond. Does anyone know where I can find the documentation for this stuff?
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What model are the drives?
Hood
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I have no idea, purchased as a kit. I attached a picture a few posts back. They are like the DIY CNC book, purchased from keling. They say KL-4030 on the side and its a C10 BOB.
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http://www.kelinginc.net/KL-4030.pdf
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Thanks, i also made sure that it was set step/dir and it is. Still no movement. According to the Mach tutorials, I have it set up right and the motors should move. I just spoke with Keling and he said the BOB is preset so it should run as is. He said the Mach software is not set right to run it. I don't know where to go from here.
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According to everything I read it should jog but it doesn't.
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attach your xml again please now you have it reconfigured.
Hood
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I just received your email as well and I followed your directions to the letter.
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I never sent an email.
Hood
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That is not the xml you have attached, it seems to be the Mach exe
Hood
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So sorry, I thought you were the same Hood that has the DIY CNC website. No wonder we have been miscommunicating. I took it for granted that your examples were in the book and you were aware of my set-up. Now it makes sense.
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Ah ok that clears up a few of the weird answers you were giving ;D
Will go and look at your xml and see if I can find an issue.
Hood
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Your xml looks fine an as you have confirmed that the drive is getting at least the Dir signals it means your wiring is good at least to the BOB so that really only leaves the drives wiring and setup of its dip switches. Are they the same now as in the pics you posted earlier?
Hood (from Mach forum ;D )
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LOL, you have a great sense of humor! Everything is set the same as the pictures. I have changed nothing. The person who has the site is named Patrick Hood Daniel so assumed you were one in the same. My bad.........
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Nope he is from the USA I am Scotland, see flag and location to the left :)
Ok it all seems fine in the pics although I cant be sure about the wiring where are you taking the red wires from in the attached pic? Do you have the jumper set on the C10 for common to be 5v?
Hood
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Possible prob ?
The jumper on the bob should be for 5v com., not ground. (?) According to the driver schematic. (?)
There is no connection to the 2-9 pin commons at the bob. Should be 5v. (?)
Just guessing.
Russ
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Good timimh Hood !
Yes, looks like the red wire should go to to bob com (5v)
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Now Russ, is it a case of great minds think alike or Fools seldom differ, think in my case it would be the latter ;)
Hood
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I finally got it to move! Under ports/pins/port setup, i checked sherline 1/2 pulse mode and now everything moves as its supposed to. Finally, but the limit keeps tripping from stray voltage, I think. I will have to run them separate from the power wires. Thanks Hood!!!
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;D
Even though it's moving, I'd still check the wiring and jumper settings. Could cause problems later if it does not agree with the drive specs.
Good one Hood :)
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I will, thanks.
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I fixed the wiring and it is correct according to the schematic.
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rick, I am attempting to run Mach in W7 32-bit, and have had to use DriverTest, and can confirm that it does work. I only skimmed over your thread, so forgive me if you already have it running, but if you navigate to C:\Mach 3 and then right click on DriverTest it will bring up a menu. In that menu select "Run As Administrator". This is the only way that it will work for me. Let me know how that works for you.
-Tiny
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I did finally get it to work and that is what I had to do. Windows is so crazy! Al my other computers are Apple products but I have to use W7 to run my router. Thanks to everyone who has responded.