Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Yotam Kasam on January 21, 2011, 06:25:47 AM

Title: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 21, 2011, 06:25:47 AM
Just emailed the following to support so why not posting it here:

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I am using a licensed Mach 3 on a fairly strong PC with Win 7 32 bit connected via parallel port to a G540 (in Jeff Birt's box) and a Sherline mill with Sure Step motors. Until a week ago the system worked fine, was very stable and the motors worked smoothly. With no visible reason the system became unstable, the motors started to stutter and resets are initiated with no request.

The problem started right after installing a brand new ShuttlePro and its plugin. Needless to mention, I disconnected and uninstalled it but the problem remains.

Within Mach I can regenerate the problem by simply clicking on the toolpath window and changing the angle of view. As I move the mouse in that window the motor stutter. Outside Mach I simply launch an application such as Internet Explorer and the motor stutter as well.

The computer works very well and smooth and is quite clean from other applications, not even an antivirus. Trying to identify the source of instability I've reinstalled Mach and killed each and every service and process other than those you can't stop while Windows is running. I even rolled back Windows to a version I know was before installing ShuttlePro and disconnected all USB's but nothing helps and the Time in interrupt constantly runs between 3 and 6 mS.

Unfortunately I couldn’t find information on what may cause instability and how to identify it as all popular applications are not real time and couldn’t care less of what is so important for Mach.

Truly appreciate your help.

YK


Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Hood on January 21, 2011, 06:42:37 AM
Rotating the toolpath window is not recommended even when things are running fine as it can cause problems like you have seen. The next revision of Mach will be fine in that respect but it may be a while before its released.

Now your main problem, have a look at the CPU load whilst running some code and see what its like. What message do you get in the ticker window when the reset happens?
Hood
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 21, 2011, 07:44:57 AM
The CPU reads 0% most of the time.
The message is "External EStop Requested".
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Hood on January 21, 2011, 07:53:07 AM
Try increasing the Debounce Interval, start off at 2000 and work your way down if it helps.
You will find it  from Config menu then General Config.

Hood
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 21, 2011, 08:03:50 AM
I went from 2000 to 0 in 200 steps. Still the same.
BTW, the [OK] button on that screen is not the Default so Enter exists but not saving changes.
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Hood on January 21, 2011, 08:07:10 AM
can you attach your xml please and I will see if I can find a problem in your config.
Hood
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 21, 2011, 12:25:56 PM
Profile attached.
Please don't get confused with the file name, this is a parallel setup, not USB.
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Hood on January 21, 2011, 01:58:10 PM
The xml you have attached is for a SmoothStepper and not a parallel port, however it looks fine from first glance.
So to make sure, is your machine running a smoothstepper or is this the wrong xml?

Hood
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 21, 2011, 02:30:27 PM
As mentioned above, this is the right file. I switched from SS to parallel and kept the XML.
So if the setup is OK, what else may cause the problem?
How can I trace the source that causes Time in Int to bounce? Do you know a debuger that can trace what the CPU is busy with during while handling your interupt?
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Hood on January 21, 2011, 02:46:11 PM
The xml you attached was set to load the SS as default, if you have made another xml for the parallel port then please attach that.

Time in Int will bounce about, what are you getting the numbers going between High and Low?

What does the frequency say on Diagnostics page?

What reason was it that you changed from  SS to PP?
Hood
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 21, 2011, 04:32:11 PM
- I don't have another XML. This is the one I am using since switching from SS to PP.
- Time in Int runs from 3 to 6 or 4 7 very rapidly (it changes few times each sec).
- Frequency runs from 27588 to 27988 (not as rapidly as Time in Int but changes constantly).
- SmoothStepper never worked well and kept on crashing M3. Once I moved to Parallel all worked well.
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Hood on January 21, 2011, 04:40:47 PM
Ok well the xml you sent is looking for a SS as default so best thing to do is go to Function Configs menu then Reset Device Select and then restart Mach and choose PP.

Time in int is fine, frequency is not great as it is faster than the kernel and it is moving around, ideally it should be very close to the set kernel and stable.

Run the driver test with Mach shut down and see if the graph looks smooth.
Hood
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 22, 2011, 04:11:00 AM
Strange, yesterday I post a reply from my iPhone but it's not here. Anyways, here are the answers:

- I don't have another XML. When moved from SS to PP I kept the same file and added Parallel settings as required.

- Time in Int bounce from 3 to 6 mS or from 4 to 7 mS. It changes quite rapidly, few times per second.

- Frequency runs between ~27.5K and ~28K but not as rabidly as Time in Int.

- SmoothStepper was unstable and kept on crashing M3. We invested more than a month trying to find the reason while replacing every component including SS, PC, cables, motors, drivers, plugin... nothing solved the problem. Once moved to Parallel port all problems gone and M3 became very stable.
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 22, 2011, 04:57:13 AM
Oops, please ignore my previous duplicated post (I just saw my initial post and your reply).

- For some reason Reset Device Select do not show device selection on subsequent M3 start. I did see that working before but now all I am getting is the legal notice. I even created a new test XML and worked only with that multiple times but it didn't bring up the device selection dialog box.

- Please see attached Device Test in action. It shows Pulsing Too Fast until it takes over and then System Excellent. While running Pulses Per Second keep on changing.
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Hood on January 22, 2011, 05:06:43 AM
There is something weird with the driver test, if you look at the Pulse per sec at the top its 40K ish but your frequency is set to 25K in the lower right so the pulse per sec should be near the frequency you select.

Regards the reset device selection, it could be because you dont have any plugins in the plugins folder that it just starts as PP.

Hood
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 22, 2011, 07:56:05 AM
It looks like the problem has nothing to do with the PC or O/S because Time in Int is very stable as long as there are no motors settings. Once these are set and M3 takes control over the hardware Time in Int starts bouncing.

Apart from the obvious, what are the settings that may affect frequency / timing?
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Hood on January 22, 2011, 08:28:28 AM
I would imagine the driver is not active when you do not have any motors set so that would be why you see what you see.

Try re-downloading Mach and install again.

Also have a look on the downloads page at the optimisation steps.

Hood
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 22, 2011, 04:49:40 PM
Hood,

I have just finished reinstalling a clean copy of Windows 7 Professional 32 bit and Mach 3. The problem remains.

The optimization page you mentioned is outdated and intended for low performance hardware and not for a 2011 brand new multiple processors PC with top notch video card and full of memory. Nevertheless, stopping ALL services and processes except those required for minimum OS functionality didn't solve the problem either.

What am I supposed to do now? Read each and every post on the forum that describes an installation issue? Sorry, no way.

As a paying customer and with the installed base you have I am quite disappointed you guys don't have a methodical way of handling abnormalities and infrastructure issues. I am not even sure what type of Win 7 you support and couldn't find any document discussing that. I would expect some sort of debug utility that produce a log you can analyze or an application that runs on a machine and grade it for use with real time application such as Mach, highlighting problematic areas etc.

I am quite sure what I see is not unique and I am not the first client who runs Mach and get timing issues. Please collect all relevant information and return to me with relevant directions.

Thanks in advance for your support.
YK
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Hood on January 22, 2011, 04:58:04 PM
Very polite of you.
This is a user support forum and is manned by users of Mach who try and help others out. I  suggest you go email Mach support and tell them what your issues are.
Hood
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 22, 2011, 05:07:39 PM
I am very sorry Hood.
I was taking you as an Art Soft support person not realizing you are a user.
My apology and of course I emailed Mach support and expect them to solve the problem.
Again, so sorry, didn't mean it personal of course and thanks for your help.
YK

Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: ger21 on January 22, 2011, 05:13:27 PM
Go into the Bios and disable EIST and/or C1E, and turn off ACPI if you can.
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: Yotam Kasam on January 24, 2011, 03:02:04 PM
Thanks Garry, but no luck yet.
Title: Re: NEED HELP - Stability issue
Post by: FCFD Tiny on February 14, 2011, 10:58:37 AM
YK, we are having the same issues with Mach.  We are running a brand new dual core pc with Windows 7 32 bit.  I wiped the hard drive and reloaded the OS.  There is nothing on the installation besides Mach.  When we run drivertest, it acts very erratic, almost random.  There is nothing running at system start-up, network connections are disabled, and options in the BIOS have been changed.  We are running Mach3 R3.043.022.  We have tried the SpecialDriver as well as the Vista Patch, to see if it would make any difference.  No such luck yet.