Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: BR549 on January 12, 2011, 07:46:39 PM
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This project is for the WIndows gurus on board. WE need to find out how far you can strip down windows and it still operate.
It would leave a bare bones OS with nothing left but what it takes to operate MACH3. AND you need to form a list and proceedure for getting it there.
ANY windows gurus out there interested???
THis has really been needed for a long long time.
Just a thought, (;-) TP
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I would think that the best way to go about this is one of those 3rd party apps that lets you strip down the install.
Don't have any experience myself, though.
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I agree BUT what do you delete/not need ?
I was hoping a Win guru would have a better understanding of what would be needed.
Should be a good research project, (;-) TP
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My question is why (playing devil's advocate)? What you might think is 'needed' might vary drastically from what others think is 'needed'. I would also suspect that you will see no real performance improvement. If you do a fresh install of Windows and turn off the ACPI (Power control) stuff and don't install a lot or garbage then you have a pretty lean system already from Mach's point of view.
I like a lot of other folks have their machines network connected so we can copy files from a network share onto the local machine. This work very well but some people will flip out and think the world will end if you have a network connected CNC machine. Of course I know some guys that almost pee their pants if they can't remove Internet Explorer from Windows too. I also have automatic updates set to notify me if there are updates to download and I'm running an antivirus program, all on XP SP3 on a really old, slow PC. Non of these things cause problems by default.
If you are designing a system to run from a flash drive than it makes a whole lot of sense to strip away everything that is not needed as you need to fit everything on a smaller flash drive, other than that I'm not sure there is a huge need to try and strip away stuff from a standard Windows install.
Just food for thought.
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I have a version of XP installed on a 2gig compact flash drive and I'm assuming that's about as bare as you could make a XP OS go without compromising the stability of it. Mach3 hasn't been tested on it yet though.
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I can tell that stripping all the unused features of XP using the XPlite software made the PC (which is far not the best out there nor a new) boot VERY fast. 23 seconds to fully load Windows! About 20 seconds faster than before I stripped it. Not that it runs Mach3 better this way, I just like it being loading fast.
BTW, Jeff, isn't it with the Smooth Stepper? With the SS I can switch screens and such (but still prefer to avoid doing it) while running a program and nothing wrong happens.
Dan
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I have a version of XP installed on a 2gig compact flash drive and I'm assuming that's about as bare as you could make a XP OS go without compromising the stability of it. Mach3 hasn't been tested on it yet though.
I think learning how to do this sounds like a great idea. Have you done some sort of tutorial on this in another forum that we can look over?
Thanks,
Dave
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I can tell that stripping all the unused features of XP using the XPlite software made the PC (which is far not the best out there nor a new) boot VERY fast. 23 seconds to fully load Windows! About 20 seconds faster than before I stripped it. Not that it runs Mach3 better this way, I just like it being loading fast.
BTW, Jeff, isn't it with the Smooth Stepper? With the SS I can switch screens and such (but still prefer to avoid doing it) while running a program and nothing wrong happens.
Dan
My 1Ghz PIII boots almost as fast with a standard XP install, and only uses 65MB of RAM when running. Pretty lean imo.
My much faster dual core PC with 3 years of programs installed takes well over a minute to boot, and uses over 400MB of RAM.
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Yes Jeff the idea is to get the BLOAT out of the install AND free up resources AND free up CPU time/interuptions.
It certainly does not mean you have to give up networking BUT for those that do not require it why not. If you feel it is not for you then please do not feel obligated to participate.
(;-) TP
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BTW, Jeff, isn't it with the Smooth Stepper?
Isn't what with the SmoothStepper? I do use the SmoothStepper 99.99% of the time. The PC I mentioned also has a parallel port and I have used it, at 25mHz, also. With the SmoothStepper I can have CamBam open and be using it while cutting but not with the parallel port. Removing a bunch of stuff that is not being used, Internet Explorer, etc, etc is not going to make it work any better.
I can tell that stripping all the unused features of XP using the XPlite software made the PC (which is far not the best out there nor a new) boot VERY fast. 23 seconds to fully load Windows! About 20 seconds faster than before I stripped it. Not that it runs Mach3 better this way, I just like it being loading fast.
Right, booting faster does not make any difference in how Mach runs but it is nicer.
Yes Jeff the idea is to get the BLOAT out of the install AND free up resources AND free up CPU time/interuptions.
It certainly does not mean you have to give up networking BUT for those that do not require it why not. If you feel it is not for you then please do not feel obligated to participate.
The point I'm trying to get across is that you need to be sure there is a problem before going to a lot of work to fix it :) You have assumed that a regular Windows install is full of bloat (because everyone says so) and that there is all this stuff you can remove that will make Mach work better. That makes sense when you think about it but there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise so what is the truth?
Judging by all the computers I have set up with Mach and all the conversations I have had with customers the most beneficial thing to do is to start with a fresh install of Windows, turn off the power savings stuff, and don't install a bunch of stuff on the computer. Most 'bloat' comes from installing a bunch of software. Most software nowadays wants to install/run some bloody service to check for updates. So you have all of these programs running all of these services to check and see if there is an update. I-Tunes is a classic example of this, in normal computer use you would never notice this but when running Mach it can make Mach hiccup. There was a thread on the Mach Yahoo group recently about a recent Adobe reader update that caused similar problems.
My much faster dual core PC with 3 years of programs installed takes well over a minute to boot, and uses over 400MB of RAM.
That is exactly what I'm talking about.
I know OEMs that use Mach and have a Windows XP Embedded build that they use. They have gone through and chosen what to include in the build based on what their machine needs. Since XP Embedded has a longer supported life, and the install is vendor specific, and you can possibly control what a user can do / not do to the underlying operating system and screw things up it makes a lot of sense.
For the average Mach user I'm not sure that a 'striped' down version of XP will make any difference. Dedicating a PC for the CNC control and not using it as a general purpose PC is a much more beneficial move for most folks. Another big down side of stripping things out of a standard Windows install is that you may find your missing an important part if you change a piece of hardware. We use a stripped down version of both XP and Win7 at the university that will boot off a CD or small thumbdrive for installation and troubleshooting purposes. To get Windows in that kind of space you have to be very specific about what HW it will run on (all drivers have to be included on the CD.)
In short I'm not saying it is a bad idea, and it is very interesting from the standpoint that it would be a fun exercise, I'm just saying that it may not be a big advantage like you might hope.
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I can have CamBam open and be using it while cutting but not with the parallel port.
This is what I was meaning. That the SS frees up a lot of CPU resources which in turn can allow running other processes along with Mach3. Not the case with the PP, so if you're judging based on a SS system that might not be true for a PP system.
Dan
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I've somewhat stripped down my OS. I have an older P4C800E-Dlx Mobo, with a 2.4C proc and 2 Gig ram.
It runs mach3 on a Win7 OS. I shut off all the windows eye candy, and power saver options.
Over on Black Viper's website, he lists all the widows 'features' you can live without,
and the reprocussions of turning them off. http://www.blackviper.com/
I have Win7 32bit and I've set up Windows to a Safe/Tweaked system, and runs much faster/smoother
then before, I also set Mach3 one level higher on the CPU priority list.
For this older system, it runs pretty good with Windows 7.
I just have to replace my BIOS battery now! LOL ;o)
Check out his site, its full of some great information.
Chris
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so if you're judging based on a SS system that might not be true for a PP system.
As I said I have run this machine both ways and I have installed Mach on many other machines and I have done support on many more than that. I have a pretty good base form which to form my opinions.