Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Hood on January 04, 2011, 06:28:36 AM

Title: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 04, 2011, 06:28:36 AM
Below is a list of the things I can think of that are needing sorted in Turn, would appreciate any others you know of.
Hood

Front/Rear Turrets

CSS

G83 (works in Mill but not Turn)

Current Tool DRO should show offset as well as tool number or another DRO should be made for Tool Offset.

Wear and Offset DROs should look at offset number to get which offset to update rather than Tool number

Tool Description label needs to look at offset number rather than tool number

Soft Limits need fixed
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: RICH on January 04, 2011, 06:53:12 AM
Until the G83 gets fixed for the lathe you can use the lathe drilling Macro done by Melee.
Here is the link and the file contains a description for using it. Can also drill multiple offset holes with it. 

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,15205.msg101682.html#msg101682

RICH
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 04, 2011, 07:45:36 AM
Rich,
 Dolphin will do it for me but the good thing about canned cycles is they are easy and quick to edit.

Another thing that needs sorted is Spindle Override.

Also would be good if FRO actually went to zero (Mill as well)

Hood
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Dan13 on January 04, 2011, 02:07:10 PM
Also the G73 High Speed Peck Drill Canned Cycle.

Tool Path display.

Spindle Override..? What's wrong with it? Seems to work here...

Dan
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Dan13 on January 04, 2011, 02:10:21 PM
Actually, none of the G81 to G89 canned cycles are implemented.

Also, G77 and G78 are not implemented, although appear in the manual.

Dan
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 04, 2011, 02:46:10 PM

Spindle Override..? What's wrong with it? Seems to work here...
OEM DRO 74 is switched off in Turn, its an easy fix for Brian to do as he has already done it for me but just wanting it in the list so it gets done in the next revision.

Tool Path display.

The toolpath should be getting updated in Rev4 but is there anything specific that is broken?



Hood
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: poppabear on January 04, 2011, 06:15:48 PM
Get Threading fixed
it would be neat to have an easy way to "Pick up" a thread(s).

scott
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 04, 2011, 06:22:36 PM
Threading, as far as I am aware, is fixed, do you know otherwise?.

Thread pickup would be a good addition but maybe  its best to hope that one day the broken things will get fixed before asking for new ;D

Hood
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: poppabear on January 04, 2011, 06:45:32 PM
Hey would you mind doing a how to use/get threading in mach3?
I am not having happy day time here. got the index 1/rev, got it being seen in mach3....
it just seems on longer threads of 3-4 inches or longer that, the threads start not being uniform,
start to spread out so to speak.  I checked the Z, and it moves accurate (shop task), it keeps around 0.001"
per foot of travel.  I did look and try that other guys (in the member docs), for the lathe (Rich I think??), but,
my issue still exist. So, since it works for you, and works for Rich, then I am doing something wrong....

scott
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 04, 2011, 06:52:18 PM
Are you using a recent revision of Mach?

Afraid threading always worked for me even when I was using the PP, I now use the SS and again it works great.

Only setting you need to make sure you have checked is use spindle feedback in sync moves, or something like that, its on the spindle setup page of ports and pins.

One other thing that I think I remember is if you use a VFD and it is compensating for spindle slowdown it may actually adversely affect threading as it may actually make the spindle go faster than the speed it started at. Dont think the driver can handle faster, slower yes but faster no.


Hood
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 04, 2011, 07:10:01 PM
Scott heres a pic I posted a year or so ago, two done with PP and two with SS.
2mm pitch 140mm long and as you can see there is no variance in pitch as I have them reversed alternately. This was with a 17HP induction motor being driven via an electromagnetic clutched  gearbox so no VFD.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8040.0;attach=6447;image

Hood
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: RICH on January 04, 2011, 09:37:41 PM
Scott,
Quote
an easy way to "Pick up" a thread
I have a how to pick up a thread in the Threading writeup. Guess one could write a macro or wizard to
guide one through the steps. Problem may be  how manny times will one ever pick up a thread.
I only had to do it probably two  times in the last 10 years. Not being negative on the request, just a comment.

Quote
Hey would you mind doing a how to use/get threading in mach3?
Something like a "quick and dirty" how to thread...not sure that would do since the big picture includes so manny things
 ( i struggled to keep the write up size to 60 pages or so ). Maybe start a new thread and post what your interested in seeing.

Quote
So, since it works for you, and works for Rich, then I am doing something wrong

You can move this reply later  to a  new thread so we don't clutter up what Hood is requesting.
 
Only set rpm manualy if VFD. The more stable your rpm the better ( Mach is reading the rpm to like 3  decimal places and is
more accurate than any device i had to read the rpm ). Make sure you have the configuration correct see the writeup.
All the testing done was mostly 2" thread lengths and had to satisfy a lead tolerance as defined in the writeup.
I did 4 and 6 inch scribes and they didn't have any lead problems. Accurately measuring  the scribed line will tell you a lot as that eliminates
say x axis influence.

More in a new thread when you start it..
RICH
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: DaOne on January 04, 2011, 11:02:07 PM
Feed per rev is also broken. Has anyone talked to Brian and got any answers on fixes?
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 05, 2011, 02:19:05 AM
Feed per rev is also broken. Has anyone talked to Brian and got any answers on fixes?

In what way? I use FPR exclusively on the lathe and it seems fine here.
Hood
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: DaOne on January 05, 2011, 03:23:12 AM
Well I have had it freak out twice on me when using it. Might have been a CSS issue. I will have to try it again and see.
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 05, 2011, 03:31:31 AM
CSS doesnt work as it should, thats for sure, it seems to keep a constant feed per min rather than a constant feed per rev. If I recall the start feed when doing CSS is based on what the FPR would be for the spindle speed at the time but the FPR doesnt stay constant as the spindle speeds or slows. This means moving out to in will take a lot longer than a feed from in to out as the former is starting and maintaining a slow feed per min and the latter a faster feed pe min. . FPR in constant spindle mode works well, for me at least, as its the only type of feed I use on the lathe and never had an issue with it.
Hood
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: M250cnc on January 05, 2011, 06:00:54 AM
Graham pointed out the freakishly high speeds needed to maintain true CSS as X moves to Zero

So as most peeps cannot reach those speeds can it be made to work as follows

When it starts it uses the minimum speed available and when it reaches the X Zero it will have reached the maximum speed available

This assumes you are feeding towards Zero so though not true CSS it will allow everyone to get the best available speed out of their machine from starting slow to finishing fast

The same applies when turning the OD

Phil
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 05, 2011, 06:10:08 AM
What do you mean by min speed available?
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 05, 2011, 06:17:55 AM
I am not following what you are meaning now I read again ;D
CSS is constant surface speed so you are trying to maintain a set amount of material that passes the tool in meters per min or feet per min, so just plucking figures out and saying it will start at whatever revs and finish at max if it goes to zero kind of defeats the point of it.

Max spindle speed should be observed by Mach whether  its because you specify a G48 (max) or it is  simply the max you have the spindle tuned to .
Hood
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: M250cnc on January 05, 2011, 09:22:55 AM
OK real world scenario on my machine

VFD controlled spindle i can have a max speed of 1500 RPM the slowest is 375 RPM controlled by Mach3

I want to face a 150mm dia billet at a CSS of 70 SMM

I start at 150mm X the min speed i can run is 375 RPM (176) gives a feed rate of 176 SMM

When i get to 3mm on X i am only cutting at 14 SMM (7430) in brackets is the desired RPM to maintain 70 SMM

So i have a very small window where i am truly cutting at 70 SMM (60mm dia to 15mm dia)

I agree about still conforming to the Max speed set in G48

So at 375 RPM i would be cutting at 70 SMM at 60mm dia my target and i would stay on target to 15 mm dia when i will be running at 1500 RPM

I hope this makes more sense now as i haven't had the opportunity to use CSS as its broken but if it was working i wouldn't be able to use it as my spindle cannot reach those speeds

But doing it my suggested way, everyone could get the best out of their available spindle speed. The SMM is blended between Min and Max. It may be worth asking Brian if this is an easier way of doing it

Or am i talking gonads as usual.  ;D

Phil
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Dan13 on January 05, 2011, 09:36:26 AM
The way it works now (OK, should work...) you will utilize your whole available speed range in the above example. Do you want to restrict it?? Don't follow you.

Dan
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 05, 2011, 09:38:46 AM
You need a better spindle motor ;)

I will have to read that a few times more  later on when I get some time but from first read is that not exactly what it should do if you have a min and max spindle?

Hood
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: M250cnc on January 05, 2011, 09:51:22 AM
You need a better spindle motor ;)

I will have to read that a few times more  later on when I get some time but from first read is that not exactly what it should do if you have a min and max spindle?

Hood


I wondered how long before you started bragging about your spindle motor.  ;D

But the point is i do not know how it should react.  :(

Phil
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 05, 2011, 10:02:53 AM
I never bragged, just simply pointed out that yours is a bit of a sub standard spare part  ;D

Hood
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: poppabear on January 05, 2011, 10:48:51 AM
AH HA!! found my issue Hood, and Rich........

  I was Using CSS G code generated by my CAM, I swithced to the F/rev and POOF problem when away......

So, I must revise my threading request:

1). Fix CSS?

Rich:  I sent you a PM take a peek.

scott
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Hood on January 05, 2011, 10:52:33 AM
Great news Scott :)

Hood
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: RICH on January 05, 2011, 05:34:05 PM
I'm  happy you found the culprit Scott.   :) Another red note placed in the writeup for future update. ;)
You just can't image how much checking went into getting the thread lead right.
RICH
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: DAlgie on January 06, 2011, 11:32:47 PM
A nice improvement for Turn would be on the Tool page. I use slow feed to move close to the stock or an electronic edgefinder, then switch with jog mode to a 0.001" resolution incremental jog and bump it to touch that way. There is no button on the Tool page so you can switch between continuous jog and incremental jog, so I have to keep switching back and forth between the two pages to set multiple tools. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Making a list of things that need fixed in Turn
Post by: Dan13 on January 07, 2011, 01:40:45 AM
Holding down the Ctrl key while using the jog buttons will switch you to incremental mode.

Dan