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General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 03:27:48 AM

Title: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 03:27:48 AM
(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/al54b.jpeg)

280mm X 750mm
1hp
12mm tool height
Headstock MT4
Tailstock MT2

So they say the best way to learn is to do. I and suspect most of you learn by puling something to bits and in the process of trying to put it back together add a few things here and there for kicks and giggles.

I managed to pick up this lathe on the cheap because a customer the supplier had puled the motor of it as a replacement for a customer, this suited me great as it was my intention to replace the standard 1hp 1ph (240v) motor with a 3ph motor and a vsd.

I brought this machine mostly because I really needed a lathe for general use in the shop, I love guns so brought it long (they do a 500mm version as well) with the intention of fitting barrels in her.

Picked up the lathe at 10am back home by 1pm had it in bits by 1:05pm
(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/new1.jpg)
(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/new2.jpg)
(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/new3.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 03:36:41 AM
After thinking about it a lot and spending way to much time looking at pictures on the Internet i have decided that it will be a fully enclosed machine, this way i don't have to worry about the coolant or the chips getting out or the dust getting in (I share the floor with a woodworker).

This is a work in progress so don't be surprised if something changes.

Here is the new stand with coolant drain:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/trey1.jpg)
(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/trey2.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 04:11:57 AM
You can see in this next picture that I have the wheel plates welded up and the wheels bolted on, also i have removed the gearing off the old motor system. Originally the machine was set up with 6 different speeds 125rpm to 2000rpm. I managed to find a brand new 2hp 3ph motor for $70NZD ($50US) with a native rpm of 1400, this was the slowest i could find, there were some 3hp motors for around the same price but i was worried about the physical sizing.
So why did i choose 1400rpm, with the vsd ill be able to slow it down to what ever speed I want, I was however worried about the cooling of the motor at low speeds as well as the torque I figure the closer to the native rpm of the motor the better for cooling. If i want to go faster I can gear it up some, ill be running at top speed so cooling wont be a problem and with twice the motor power torque shouldn't be a problem ether.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/ontopsmall.jpg)

For some reason i can edit my first couple of posts, if someone can help me with this i have resized the images.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 04:24:02 AM
For those of you who have not yet worked it out, yes that gaping big hole in the middle is for all of the chips, the plan is to have some kind of bin under the machine that I can empty every so often, i have to work out how to get the coolant out of the bin and into the tank which will also be underneath. I have bought a tank and pump already but have not yet decided if ill keep the tank, its sort of tall and small generally.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 04:36:30 AM
Wheels on machines is essential if you don't have forks especially if you run any woodworking equipment as the dust just goes every ware. i have learned however that you need to have wind down feed to both level the machine properly as well as have more of a stable footprint. I'm not sure where the feet will end up but they will be in there some ware.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 04:56:32 AM
So it seems that I'm going to fully enclose both the top and the bottom of the machine thanks to Bobs blog  (www.cnccookbook.com) staring Dave Decaussin from fadal, both of his machines are oh so sexy!

Pictures with both the back and one of the ends on, you can also see part of the coolant tank.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/backsmall.jpg)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/back2small.jpg)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/sidesmall.jpg)

You'll see that i have also put holes in the sheet metal this was to assist with spot welding the sheet metal to the frame, in hind sight im not sure this was worth the trouble. The idea was that i would have no weld marks when i was done but welding it from the inside out would have achieved the same thing, live an learn.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 04:58:47 AM
Another thing id do different is to build the frame around the sheet rather than the sheet around the frame, the sheet is all cut on a laser so its dead square this would have really helped along the way with the frame assembling.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 05:04:40 AM
So you went to bed last night having a quick look on the forums before bed (like a good addict) and today wham a new machine build and boy is he fast!
Not quite I've been working on this machine for id say 3 months, I run my own business (that has nothing to do with metal anything) and have four children with the oldest being 5 so there is not a lot of time for CNC projects. I didnt want to start the blog until i had a fair bit done that way it wouldn't be another one of those fly by night new machine builds. Anyway enjoy.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 05:27:03 AM
I've made really good progress, I had my brother back over for dinner (can you give me a hand to move something) and so have the lathe re mounted, also have 3 of the 4 sides covered, the front and rear doors cut and folded  and i also got a coolant try folded up for the mill as well (see it there in the back of the pic, a ZAY45 mill was my first cnc project).

The 19" rack system:
I worked as a roadie for 15 years and really came to appreciate having a standardized modular system. Now that I work in computers I appreciate the same 19" rack mounting system that has been scaled out for servers. id have to say the computer guys have an even better way of dealing with the masses of cables than the roadies do.
Anyway I built the cabinet on the same 19" rack mount system, i don't yet know if this was a good or bad thing but time will tell.

Below: the rear rack door folded and positioned ready to figure out if my hinging system is going to work out the way i thought it would. Also shows a good view of the new motor

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/remntsmall.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 05:40:04 AM
Good news the VSDs have arrived, I ordered 2x 3hp single phase to 3ph Hyundai N50 from driveswarehouse.com sesorless vector drives $250 US each (one for the mill one for the lathe) i figured one day i might like to go to a 3hp motor and for the few extra dollars it cost to go to the 3hp driver why not.
I have to say i am very happy with the drivers, they are more like computers than PLC's or at least the ones i worked on in the past. The go up to 400hz the guys recommend a maximum of 80hz for my motor (240v 50hz is NZ standard). I have one all wired up an spinning that little machine silly.

I do have 415v 3 phase power in the workshop but wanted the vsd for spindle control and ordered it in single phase as I am likely to move into a new place soon and will not likely have 3ph power.

Very happy, time to make chips!
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 06:12:46 AM
I have I hope come up with a suitable solution for the chip bin:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/binsmall.jpg)

Now guys a couple of things yes the bin is warped from the heat of welding - its a bin so it don't matter. Yes i would have preferred that it wasn't warped but i have never worked with sheet metal before and i didn't know that it would warp that easy.
I have used slide rails to attach it to the underside of the coolant try so it slides in and out beautifully and comes to a stop right under the coolant try. The rails have catches on the sides so that you can take the bin right out of the machine to empty it, ill bolt on a rear handle to assist with this as well.

Re; coolant extraction, i have simply put a drain hole in the corner and tig'd some mesh which holds a piece of  scotch bright in there the idea being that this will separate the bulk of the chips and other solids from the coolant, the coolant tank will also have a finer screen to get out any of the fines that make it through.

just above the 3 jaw you can see the edge of the coolant tank, i decided to keep the tank i had but extended it to firstly increase the amount of fluid available (i plan on pouring the stuff on) and second i ant never going back there for anything so i may as well use the space up with something.

Colour choice (NZ spelling), i decided to go with an off white inspired by JHChoppers build http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,13365.0.html as well as Dave Decaussins little lathe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UubzocrQ1ew&feature=player_embedded#! found his link through www.cnccookbook.com - your the man Bob!
Obviously its still early days but i absolutely love the colour, im thinking some dark blue pin stripes and logos will really set the thing off.

You may also notice I have the bottom and an internal wall (you can't see it) in the cabinet as well, I'm thinking a set of 4 or 5 draws on the size for the chucks and tooling.
I had the main power switch on my mill towards the back and boy is it a pain to have to reach back there to shut things off this time i got things up close and smack bang in the center if the thing its much better.

I have only used the lathe a few times but I feel like it should have a lot more toque than it does for such a big motor. My tooling is only the standard crappy 12mm stuff (1/2" for the metric impaired) but I am only able to take .5mm cuts before i feel like i will stall the machine i want to be taking 5mm not .5mm passes. 
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 07, 2010, 09:12:25 AM
Looking great and also good to see another lathe user.

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 02:26:54 PM
Thanks hood.

Here is another view from the front, you can see that i have 3 pulley sizes to choose from. That is the new mill stand on the side there, figured i may as well do two of everything to save me a bit of money.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/frontsmall.jpg)

This is the problem with a working machine the project slows down so that you can use it to finnish other projects, "nice pile o crap you got there" .
Note the quick change 200l post on the ply, i am already sick of the dinky litlle 12mm tooling, although im thinking i might have got a little carried away with the new BIGGER tool post.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/side2small.jpg)

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: JHChoppers on November 07, 2010, 03:43:02 PM
Looks great !  (I like the color too)

JH
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 07, 2010, 04:55:31 PM
Thanks JH, your machine is awesome, I cant wait to get one!

So after much consideration I have decided to use steppers, The mill I retro'd uses servos they are fast powerful but expensive, I have never used steppers before and i am keen to have a play, I also have a considerable size restriction on my X axis so the smaller footprint of the steppers should help with this. I guess no self respecting lathe tinkerer could sleep soundly at night with out a tool turret so again step motors due to size would be used, I figure i may as well make em all step motors.

I'm a huge fan of the G100 Grex by Gecko it was a pretty major flop due to as I understand it how hard it is to make the initial connection (its not that hard to be honest), anyways I already own two of them and they run great i came really close to ordering a third for this project but after many sleepless nights finally settled on a C32 (www.cnc4pc.com) and smooth stepper (www.warp9td.com) combo. I hate the idea of using anything with a parallel port as in my professional opinion it should be punishable with death to have manufactured a computer with a parallel port in the last 10 years.
The reason i settled on this combo came down to support, both boards carry excellent support both from the manufacturers as well as users that an people are always finding new ways to make them sing, the Grex as good as it is is just not being used by anyone who's writing online about it.
G201
Drivers: I own a bunch of G320's they work great, the G251's are cheap and if they are half as good as the G201's are then its a no brainer. I have ordered 5 of them again more spare parts for other projects.

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 07, 2010, 05:29:08 PM
Steppers should work fine on a small lathe like that. AC Servos also have a small size for their power but afraid they are, although coming down in price, still expensive.

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 08, 2010, 03:34:21 AM
One really good thing about the AL54b is that it has Tee slots in the slide, this is for the optional milling vice, tool goes in the spindle vice gives you an Y axis and away you go. I've quickly grown tires of using the cruddy 12mm tooling inspite of only having used the lathe 3 or 4 times so i decided to build an adapter plate for my giant sized 20mm quick change tool post.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/toolpostsmall.jpg)

The black block comes with the tool post it has only one hole in the center for the main shaft.
Another shot:
(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/toolpost3small.jpg)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/toolpost2small.jpg)

I figured that now was as good a time as any to begin the process of replacing the lead screw with a ball screw. The one in the machine is 12mm the one I have is 16mm as well as the nut being id say twice the size, its going to take a bit of work but I think if i can mill a little out of the slide as well as grind the nut i should be able to fit it in there.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/nutsmall.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 08, 2010, 04:08:22 AM
I'm far from a machinist but i have more enthusiasm than I know what to do with so had a go at milling a pocket for the nut ad well as the socket I'm going to have to fit the the end of the ball screw. I wouldn't know where to begin to get bobcad to produce the code for the 3D pocket so it just sort of made it up as a went, it is the approximate size of the nut, the only measurement that i made sure was spot in was the width of the nut flange and boy is it tight on the nut. My plan is to hammer the nut in there then some how bot it so that it cant rotate, with no movement from side to side and no way to rotate i should have a zero backlash X axis - well heres hoping!
My fist time using a ball nosed cutter and i quite enjoyed it, to be honest the only reason it was easy was due to my new Gwizard subscription, set the feed rate and the spindle speed and away you go.

The hole in the middle is the original nut mount.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/slidebacksmall.jpg)

So after cutting as deep as i dare and taking some more measurements I am going to have to grind this nut something silly. Sorry the  pic is bad it was moving in the machine.
You'll notice the M6 cap screw in the side this is a grease nipple hole, I figured that if im going to grind the flange off I had better give myself as much chance of seating it as i can by retaining as many of the bolt holes as i can by grinding it on an angle i was able to retain 4 of the six holes instead of keeping 2. I'm starting to also think that i may be able to utilize this grease hole as well by drilling through the slide and attaching some sort of screw to this hole to assist with preventing rotation. The reason i say some sort of screw is that I had to mill so much out of the slide to give the nut clearance that i only have about 1.5mm between the peak of the nut and the top of the slide, the goal is not to clamp it using this screw but to prevent rotation of the nut so maybe all use a grub screw, even better would be a flat grease nipple - ill come up with something.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/nutgrindsmall.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 08, 2010, 06:02:57 PM
I got sick and tired of tripping over everything  and had a clean up, as part of my clean up I cleared a space and made a home for my lathe.
I have added the right hand side panel and the back, its starting to look like a nice machine now.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/onesidesmall.jpg)

You can see that I have also bolted up the new tool post, in previous post I mentioned that it was under powered I have found the reason for this. My inverter only puts out 200 odd volts instead of the standard 415v, thinking I had brought the wrong inverter i madly ran of to a local industrial motor shop and asked them about it, they explained the difference between the star and delta configuration, 20min later i was cutting 2mm passes and grinning from ear to ear.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: budman68 on November 08, 2010, 06:06:53 PM
Absolutely love this thread, especially the chip/coolant tray..... thanks so mjuch for sharing-  8)

Dave
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 08, 2010, 10:52:10 PM
Thanks Dave, i have never seen this on a machine before (hope thats not a bad sign?) I just dreamed it up during the initial sketch up. about the olny bad thing i can say thus far is that when you put tools etc on the try the eventually fall into the bin, this wont be a problem once shes up an running as i wont have pile o crap on the trey.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 08, 2010, 11:01:36 PM
The coolant tank which i painted a few days ago has hardened up nicely so this morning i bolted up the pump, plumbing and wiring and gave it a test for leaks. I have to do a few minor tweaks but overall she worked great.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/tanksmall.jpg)

Back to the X Axis after the tank was sorted, I decided that the previously mentioned plan was worth a crack so i headed off to my mates place and ground the third side of the nut, i popped a hole through the slide and with a few alterations to the saddle i think its might just work.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/nut2small.jpg)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/slide1small.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 08, 2010, 11:47:45 PM
Ok guys need a little help now, the ball screws for both axis are on back order (same as the one i have just sorter) I want to ket started on the bearing block should i use thrust ball bearings or standard bearings?

I have in the past used thrust ball bearings with reasonable success, i am however open to ideas?

thanks
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 09, 2010, 03:25:22 AM
Thanks Dave, i have never seen this on a machine before (hope thats not a bad sign?) I just dreamed it up during the initial sketch up. about the olny bad thing i can say thus far is that when you put tools etc on the try the eventually fall into the bin, this wont be a problem once shes up an running as i wont have pile o crap on the trey.

It should work fine, my lathe has a similar kind of set up, see pic. One thing I found on mine was in the chip pan there was the strainer was made of punched sheet with about 8mm square holes and the coolant tank underneath would get chips in it. I fitted some finer stainless mesh over it and its fine now.

Ok guys need a little help now, the ball screws for both axis are on back order (same as the one i have just sorter) I want to ket started on the bearing block should i use thrust ball bearings or standard bearings?

I have in the past used thrust ball bearings with reasonable success, i am however open to ideas?

thanks


A pair of angular contacts at one end are the norm nowadays and if the ballscrew is supported at the other end its  just a normal ball bearing that is used. One of my mills has a pair of taper rollers instead of angular contacts but they have been shimmed to provide the preload.

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 09, 2010, 04:13:42 AM
It should work fine, my lathe has a similar kind of set up, see pic. One thing I found on mine was in the chip pan there was the strainer was made of punched sheet with about 8mm square holes and the coolant tank underneath would get chips in it. I fitted some finer stainless mesh over it and its fine now.

Ive made sort of a basket to keep the bulk of the chips out within (behind in the pic) is a 50x 40mm bit of scotch bright this catches the bulk of the fine stuff. also within the tank there is a settling area for any solids that should make it that far.
(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/scotchbright.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 09, 2010, 04:17:51 AM

A pair of angular contacts at one end are the norm nowadays and if the ballscrew is supported at the other end its  just a normal ball bearing that is used. One of my mills has a pair of taper rollers instead of angular contacts but they have been shimmed to provide the preload.

Hood

For anyone following this thread:
(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/angular_contact.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 09, 2010, 04:37:40 AM
Ive got the left side and internal wall done, looks great don't it! says the proud father.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/leftsidesmall.jpg)

As you may have guessed from the saddle i had this done before I started screwing with the x axis ball screw.

You may notice i have the entire top cabinet attached underneath the coolant trey, I'm not sure why i did this, i think it may just have been easer to attach this way, I'm going to pull it all off tomorrow and have ago at attaching it to the top of the coolant trey instead. this will make it a lot more coolant tight i will however have to re cut the internal wall as all the mounting points would be thrown out by the 25mm lift.
Im not sure why but people seem to mount the Z axis motor on the back end of the lathe, to me the logical place to put it is where the gearbox is, its out of the way close to alot of other wiring and you dont end up with a nob sticking off the lathe, i guess what im saying is that the gear box will come off tomorrow.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 09, 2010, 04:39:09 AM
I don't suppose anyone is interested in buying 3/4 of an AL54b? seems like a real shame to pay good money for a lathe that you just end up reducing to its bones and binning.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 09, 2010, 04:43:12 AM
Another view from the other side.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/leftside2small.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 05:37:45 AM
Today was my first full day in ages working on my Lathe and i got a bunch of pics to prove it.

If you ask me you can never have to much lighting on a CNC machine, while i was shopping the other day i came across some LED strip lighting the street racers use for under there cars, that evolved into this:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/lightingplatesmall.jpg)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/lightingplate2small.jpg)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/lightingplates3small.jpg)

Should do a great job especially with the cabinet being a highly reflective white.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 05:44:25 AM
The next thing as previously mentioned was to get the top cabined mounted on top of the coolant trey, again I'm not sure why i wrapped it around the coolant trey, i think it may have been a cosmetics thing you know trying to hide joins and things. Anyway it was never going to work, I had to re cut the internal wall but to be honest I'm much happier.

I still have to finish bolting everything down but this is how it sits now:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/ontop2small.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 05:50:24 AM
Next came more work on the rack system, as you can see the rails are adjustable depending on the equipment being mounted. I know i have mentioned it already but this type of mounting system really is the only way to go.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/racksmall1.jpg)

Another shot from the front (the black plate is just being used to make sure everything lines up.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/rack2small.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 05:55:34 AM
I had to bribe the guy at the laser cutting place to cut it for me today but it was worth it, i got the front door cut, folded and clamped this afternoon.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/door1small.jpg)

and just because it looks so good heres another view:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/door2small.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 06:06:12 AM
Having had such a productive day I thought id go spend one more hour working on this thing before bed, I have not received a lot of feedback from the three of you (assuming there are still three of you) following this thread so I don't know if I'm doing this build right wrong or otherwise. My thoughts are if Hood and JHChoppers think it looks good then it looks good, for the rest of you out there if this part don't look good then there is something wrong with you.

Wiring and mounting of the LED lighting panel:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/lightwiresmall.jpg)

Yes I did, you know you wana see it working:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/lightonsmall.jpg)

Well what do you think????

the gap above the door is for the rubber seal, the gap below will have the mpg setup - got some great ideas for this.

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on November 10, 2010, 06:29:23 AM
I think there is a lot more than three people following this thread.

I am just amazed at the speed and quality at which you are completing all this work. I guess you guys from the land's down under really know how to get stuck into the job.  ;D

Keep it up, I can't wait for the next installment.

Excellent work my friend.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 10, 2010, 07:16:14 AM
Yes its looking great and these LEDs are the dogs danglers, have them in my lathes control cabinet.

Wish I had a laser cutter guy near me that could be easily bribed as I am crap at sheet metal work ;D

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: JHChoppers on November 10, 2010, 07:22:41 AM
The LEDs are great, I need some for my Mill, great idea.   It all looks great, can't wait for the videos !!!  At the speed your working, you have should a bucket of parts made in about a week :)

JH
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: budman68 on November 10, 2010, 10:12:11 AM
Quote
My thoughts are if Hood and JHChoppers think it looks good then it looks good, for the rest of you out there if this part don't look good then there is something wrong with you.



Actually, with that comment, you just lost me  ;)

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: JHChoppers on November 10, 2010, 12:35:21 PM
To be "considered" in the same class as hood is an honor !  Hood is "da man"

JH
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: budman68 on November 10, 2010, 12:41:21 PM
To be "considered" in the same class as hood is an honor !  Hood is "da man"

JH

Couldn't agree more, my friend-

Dave
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 03:11:02 PM
Quote
My thoughts are if Hood and JHChoppers think it looks good then it looks good, for the rest of you out there if this part don't look good then there is something wrong with you.



Actually, with that comment, you just lost me  ;)



No offense my friend, I only mentioned those two by name because I've been following there work.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: budman68 on November 10, 2010, 03:31:35 PM
Nah, I was just teasing. I love your work as mentioned before, and will continue to follow it for sure as I'm learning quite a bit.

Sometimes my brand of humor isn't best had over the internet  :D

Quick question, I'm guessing those LED's ar indeed waterproof since they're used for under car lighting?

Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 10, 2010, 03:44:15 PM
To be "considered" in the same class as hood is an honor !  Hood is "da man"

JH

Just goes to show how easily the internet can fool people ;D

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 03:47:13 PM
Nah, I was just teasing. I love your work as mentioned before, and will continue to follow it for sure as I'm learning quite a bit.

Sometimes my brand of humor isn't best had over the internet  :D

Quick question, I'm guessing those LED's ar indeed waterproof since they're used for under car lighting?

Thanks,
Dave

You got it, they are submersible.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 03:47:45 PM
To be "considered" in the same class as hood is an honor !  Hood is "da man"

JH

Just goes to show how easily the internet can fool people ;D

Hood

Lol!
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: budman68 on November 10, 2010, 03:54:10 PM
Nah, I was just teasing. I love your work as mentioned before, and will continue to follow it for sure as I'm learning quite a bit.

Sometimes my brand of humor isn't best had over the internet  :D

Quick question, I'm guessing those LED's ar indeed waterproof since they're used for under car lighting?

Thanks,
Dave

You got it, they are submersible.


Thank you sir-  8)

Dave

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 10, 2010, 03:55:25 PM
Any idea the make of the ones you have? Mine are by Tru Opto but no mention of whether they are waterproof or not. Was thinking at the time that they would be good under the cover and was going to test them out to see but just that day  a guy came in with a nice twin tube head off a street sign so I cut a hole in the sliding covers lid and fitted that instead.

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 03:58:09 PM
I think there is a lot more than three people following this thread.

I am just amazed at the speed and quality at which you are completing all this work. I guess you guys from the land's down under really know how to get stuck into the job.  ;D

Keep it up, I can't wait for the next installment.

Excellent work my friend.

Tweakie.

We are moving pretty fast at the moment, this is about to come to an abrupt halt though, I just found out the ball screws are 2 1/2 weeks away and the smooth stepper is on back order so CNC4PC cant ship.

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 04:07:14 PM
Any idea the make of the ones you have? Mine are by Tru Opto but no mention of whether they are waterproof or not. Was thinking at the time that they would be good under the cover and was going to test them out to see but just that day  a guy came in with a nice twin tube head off a street sign so I cut a hole in the sliding covers lid and fitted that instead.

Hood

They are generic from the local electronics supply place so no branding sorry, i can tell you they are a meter long, run on 12v and cost about $40 US a strip - ouch!

If its fluorescents that you are talking about I would probably avoid them, the blasts converts the standard supply to a few thousand volts and they contain Mercury (the manufacture recommends burning your cloths if one smashes and your near it).

But then I read an article the other day that said that you guys (US) are putting Mercury in some of your vaccinations now, so the fluro mill lighting is probably the least of your worries.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 10, 2010, 04:08:43 PM
Not so good, Peter Homann in Oz stocks SS's but not sure if that would be an option for you, certainly wont help with the ballscrew :(
Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Sam on November 10, 2010, 04:09:11 PM
Where are you getting the screws from?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 10, 2010, 04:13:15 PM
Yes its fluorescent but its a head off a street sign so if its good enough to withstand the weather in Scotland I dont think the lathe can do any damage to it :)

Regarding Mercury, thats where the saying Mad as a hatter comes from, seemingly mercury was used in the process of making hats at one time, think it was to do with felt. Anyway the mercury poisoned the hat makers making them a bit loopy ;D

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 04:14:25 PM
Shipping my friend, when you live 5 miles from the arse end of the universe you must consider every thing you buy cost you a whole bunch in freight. CNC4PC wanted another $5 in freight for the SS board. CNC said only a few days on back order (he thinks) but even if he sent it today it would still take a week and a half min via USPS.
If I have not herd from him by week end I may get PH to send one of his (I got to get some couplers off him as well).
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 10, 2010, 04:17:18 PM
Where are you getting the screws from?

A place down the south Island, they are normally in stock but i wanted them cut and machined to a specific profile (included in the standard cost)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 11, 2010, 02:35:25 PM
I ended up having to work yesterday so i didn't get much done, since i was sitting behind a computer(http://) I began the design work for the controller, there sure is a lot on there:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/controlsmall.jpg)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/control1small.jpg)

I'm going to re cut this, I used the measurements off the manufacturers website for the Ethernet plugs  because i was waiting for them to turn up in the post, they arrived and were out by about 2mm, i could make it work still but why bother.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on November 11, 2010, 10:40:42 PM
Hi

Your AL54B looks very similar to my AL from Hare&Forbes. I have had it for a number of years now.

Comments:

* They are both made in China, with the inevitable consequences. However, the consequences are not always as expected. I find the bearings are still pretty good, the headstock alignment is pretty good, but all the fasteners are rubbish. Any cap-heap bolr which is active will have to be replaced with an Unbrako.

* I hope the ball screw has the same pitch as the lead-screw you are replacing, because the back-gearing is designed to work with the lead screw to get all the thread combinations. As this is very unlikely to be the case, you may have an interesting time getting the thread cutting going. Good luck.

* The use of a ball screw may place extra loading on the main lead-screw bearings. Check adequacy.

* The back gears do need changing for different threads. I hope you have left enough room/access for this. In addition, those cast iron gears get extremely filthy with iron and carbon dust after a while. Trust me, I KNOW!

* I have the standard small Qwik-change tool-post holder on my machine, and haven't had any problems with its rigidity. But I tend to machine fairly gently most of the time.

* The gibs on the saddle do need regular adjustment in my experience. But, that is not too difficult.

* I still have the 3 and 4 jaw chucks which came with the machine of course, but these days I tend to use an ER32 collet system as much as possible.

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 12, 2010, 12:34:21 AM


* They are both made in China, with the inevitable consequences. However, the consequences are not always as expected. I find the bearings are still pretty good, the headstock alignment is pretty good, but all the fasteners are rubbish. Any cap-heap bolr which is active will have to be replaced with an Unbrako.


All gone only cap screws remain


* I hope the ball screw has the same pitch as the lead-screw you are replacing, because the back-gearing is designed to work with the lead screw to get all the thread combinations. As this is very unlikely to be the case, you may have an interesting time getting the thread cutting going. Good luck.


Not sure why id keep any of that junk, the computer will cut the threads not the bucket of gears and crappy lead screw (only has about 3mm of backlash - I must have got a good one)


* The use of a ball screw may place extra loading on the main lead-screw bearings. Check adequacy.


Bearings are gone too


* The back gears do need changing for different threads. I hope you have left enough room/access for this. In addition, those cast iron gears get extremely filthy with iron and carbon dust after a while. Trust me, I KNOW!


Gearbox is gone as well as the gears - wana buy them?



* I have the standard small Qwik-change tool-post holder on my machine, and haven't had any problems with its rigidity. But I tend to machine fairly gently most of the time.


The machine did not come with a quick change and i didnt want to use the pathetic 12mm tooling, with the 2hp motor with free machining i can take about 2-2.5mm passes.


* The gibs on the saddle do need regular adjustment in my experience. But, that is not too difficult.


Yep i saw that when I had it in the mill the other day.


* I still have the 3 and 4 jaw chucks which came with the machine of course, but these days I tend to use an ER32 collet system as much as possible.


Me too, the MT4 headstock is real easy to get col lets for, works great.


thanks.

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 12, 2010, 12:49:39 AM
I got a decent amount done today, the morning was dedicated to the 19" rack system and making sure everything lined up perfect. After that i spent a few hours pulling all of the top sheet metal off and again lining up all of the holes and edges. Its surprising how much time this sort of stuff takes you really have to do it though it it will fight you the whole time when you reassemble after paint.
While i had the sheet metal off i took some pics of some of the stuff i may have missed, the internal panel comes down and covers the motor to get it to all line up we had to modify some of the housing, im not worried about the cooling of the motor as the internal panel will assist with ducting the air around the motor, I have tested it and i am getting good air flow still.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/motorsmall.jpg)

A good pic showing the penatration for the wiring, i have learned that there is no point in trying to stop the coolant from getting back here with silicon etc the stuff will work its way up there your better off figuring how to drain it away rather than stopping it. 

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/gearingsmall.jpg)

by lunch time the paint had dried on the side panel, it looks good:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/sidepanelsmall.jpg)

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 12, 2010, 01:02:01 AM
The afternoon was dedicated to I spent some time on the keyboard set up and how its going to work, this is what i have come up with for the keyboard:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/keyslidesmall.jpg)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/keyslide2small.jpg)

The monitor idea is a simple one, pulling it off though was a pain the 1mm sheet metal roof is rust not strong enough, I cut this plate out of 2mm SS to help:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/mplatesmall.jpg)

and the top:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/mpolesmall.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 12, 2010, 01:07:47 AM
And all that equals this:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/mbacksmall.jpg)

The bracket give me pan, tilt, swing and hight adjustment

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/mside1small.jpg)

Like I said not a bad way to spend a Friday, have a good weekend guys I'm going dirt bike riding.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on November 12, 2010, 02:28:30 AM
Quote
* I hope the ball screw has the same pitch as the lead-screw you are replacing, because the back-gearing is designed to work with the lead screw to get all the thread combination's. As this is very unlikely to be the case, you may have an interesting time getting the thread cutting going. Good luck.

Not sure why id keep any of that junk, the computer will cut the threads not the bucket of gears and crappy lead screw (only has about 3mm of backlash - I must have got a good one)

I must admit that I don't know much about lathes but I will be extremely interested to see just how this pans out.   ;)

Tweakie.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on November 12, 2010, 02:49:57 AM
I must admit that I don't know much about lathes but I will be extremely interested to see just how this pans out.   ;)
Tweakie.

Oh, with a decent servo drive on both the headstock and the ball screw, with the right sort of sync pulses, it should go just fine. (Plus the new bearings on the ball screw of course.) I hadn't thought it through when I made my comment!

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 12, 2010, 02:52:35 AM
Only if you wish to use the lathe manually for thread cutting would you have to keep gearboxes and leadsrew pitch the same. I think however once you have done  threading  on a CNC lathe you will never do it manually again, its just so easy and quick :)


Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on November 12, 2010, 04:43:21 AM
Sorry, my mistake.  :-[
I thought you were using that blue coloured ac motor with belt drive for your headstock (as shown in the earlier pictures).

Tweakie.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 12, 2010, 04:51:21 AM
Sorry, my mistake.  :-[
I thought you were using that blue coloured ac motor with belt drive for your headstock (as shown in the earlier pictures).

Tweakie.

I think he is but that is not a problem for threading as Mach only needs to see an index pulse to do threading. Spindle doesnt even have to be under Mach control.

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 12, 2010, 05:22:12 AM
Only if you wish to use the lathe manually for thread cutting would you have to keep gearboxes and leadsrew pitch the same. I think however once you have done  threading  on a CNC lathe you will never do it manually again, its just so easy and quick :)


Hood

Correct
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 12, 2010, 05:24:22 AM
Sorry, my mistake.  :-[
I thought you were using that blue coloured ac motor with belt drive for your headstock (as shown in the earlier pictures).

Tweakie.

I think he is but that is not a problem for threading as Mach only needs to see an index pulse to do threading. Spindle doesnt even have to be under Mach control.

Hood

Correct, C3 board from CNC4PC.

Although there is JHChoppers mill thread where he has a stepper that is connected to the spindle for indexing the ATC when i read how he'd done this I thought that would be a great why to run a C axis on a lathe, time will tell.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on November 12, 2010, 05:56:35 AM
Sorry to be a pain, I said I didn't know much about lathes.
Thanks guys.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 12, 2010, 06:00:06 AM
Not a pain at all, good to have questions and thoughts on subjects you are not sure of.

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 12, 2010, 06:18:43 AM

Although there is JHChoppers mill thread where he has a stepper that is connected to the spindle for indexing the ATC when i read how he'd done this I thought that would be a great why to run a C axis on a lathe, time will tell.

 Personally as its not a massive lathe I would be looking out for an AC servo and drive on eBay. Not sure how the market for these are in the antipodes? Having a servo instead of the induction motor would mean perfect spindle control and no need for pulley ranges as torque is constant from zero to rated speed and there is usually at least double available for short periods.
Only issue at the moment is the SmoothStepper does not support the SwapAxis feature of Mach and dont know if it will but if it happens then rigid tapping and spindle indexing would be a piece of cake.

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 12, 2010, 06:19:37 AM
Not a pain at all, good to have questions and thoughts on subjects you are not sure of.

Hood

What he said
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 12, 2010, 06:38:23 AM
Due to the shipping cost id say this would not be an option, there no market for used servos etc, new will cost a fortune, ill save the C Axis for the new lathe build i think. KISS

thanks for the feed back.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 12, 2010, 11:47:39 PM
No feedback on the monitor and keyboard set up.......interesting.

Anyone?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on November 13, 2010, 12:28:26 AM
No feedback on the monitor and keyboard set up.......interesting. Anyone?

Well, I was not going to comment, but since you ask ...

Both are VERY close to where the chips fly. I have mine a little further away, and that is still too close for comfort. It gets showered at times.

You do have the advantage that yours is higher than mine - especially the monitor (the mount is cute), but i would give some thought to protecting the keyboard a bit. I did think about wrapping mine in Glad Wrap ... keep the keys clean that way too ... :-)

Where does the mouse go?

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 13, 2010, 02:21:27 AM
The mouse is an integrated touch pad (into the keyboard)

The keyboard will stow away inside the machine during normal operation protected from chips, the door will also be brought down to contain the chips, keep in mind also that the keyboard sits out and behind the work chips will naturally fly out but i don't expect to have then fly back as well - time will tell.
During manual operation the machine will be controlled from the pendant, in automatic once the program has been loaded the keyboard will be stoad inside the machine, the run command will be issued from the pendant or other control panel - haven't decided which.

thanks very much for taking the time to give me some more feedback i appreciated having to come up with sound answers.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on November 13, 2010, 02:51:30 AM
The keyboard will stow away inside the machine during normal operation
Hum, yeah, but during development work I do tend to use the keyboard a LOT. Not, mind you, that there are any bugs in my hand-written programs ...
The idea of stowing it is fine once the programs have been truly debugged.

Quote
During manual operation the machine will be controlled from the pendant,
Haven't tried a pendant (yet). I have a front panel touch pad going through a Smooth Stepper, but its responses are too slow for me. The arrow keys on the keyboard seem much faster.
Be interested n your experiences with the pendant.

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 13, 2010, 03:46:37 AM
The keyboard will stow away inside the machine during normal operation
Hum, yeah, but during development work I do tend to use the keyboard a LOT. Not, mind you, that there are any bugs in my hand-written programs ...
The idea of stowing it is fine once the programs have been truly debugged.

Quote
During manual operation the machine will be controlled from the pendant,
Haven't tried a pendant (yet). I have a front panel touch pad going through a Smooth Stepper, but its responses are too slow for me. The arrow keys on the keyboard seem much faster.
Be interested n your experiences with the pendant.

Cheers



Yes  agree, there is no reason to keep he door open during programming.

My pendant will have 1x 10x 100x and rapids on both axis, manual control is ery important to me.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 13, 2010, 06:43:21 AM
When you say pendant do you mean a hand held one? I made one up for the mill and was thinking I would then make one up for the lathe but after a few days using it on the mill I decided it didnt suit me and that the control panel pendant was much better suited. Having said that lots of people seem to like hand held ones, but I think it is more the router and plasma guys with huge table areas.

Your 1x 10x 100x etc, are you meaning via jog keys or MPG? I never use Jog Keys and always use MPG but I only ever use the MPG for positioning and never for manual machining. For quick jobs that dont require much thought or code I just MDI and that is why I am now making a screenset up with all the functions I use day to day on the one page, including the MDI line. I first did this on my Beaver Mill and it worked out great so I have adapted it to suit my lathe and its almost done, just have a bit of rearranging and tidying to do.


When I made up the control panel I had it on a telescopic arm so I could pull it out and round to where the work was but I have found I never use this and kind of wished I hadnt bothered now. Suppose though everyone is different and we all work in different ways :)
Another thing I prefer, even though I have a touch screens on all my machines,  is physical buttons, but again I suppose thats down to personal preference. I am at the moment making up a new button panel as I want FRO and SRO pots there, did it on the Beaver Mill and they are great.

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 13, 2010, 04:05:01 PM
What a terrific looking screen set hood, i love the LED's in the corners of the buttons.

i was thinking something like this as a pendant:

(http://ocw.mit.edu/ans7870/2/2.670/projects/images/CNC_lathe.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 13, 2010, 04:09:18 PM
I also have a touch screen on my mill but almost never use it, its a shame to because its a dirty big 23", i just find my fingers are always so filthy from great coolant and swarf that i don't bother.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: angel tech on November 13, 2010, 04:38:25 PM
I have touch screens on my mill and lathe, so i keep a bath towel near the machines to wipe my hands. A quick grab of the towel is all is needed and you're good to go, touch screens are the way.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 13, 2010, 04:42:11 PM
You may like the feel of the wheels but afraid I dont, great as I said for positioning and sneaking up to touch off but for machining I dont like them. One thing though is mine have detents and I had thought of removing them and fitting some sort of friction device, I think that would make a big difference to the feel so might be worth you considering.

Regards the touch screens, I have to clean mine every so often  because of coolant smudges etc but doesnt seem to do them any harm.

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on November 15, 2010, 01:22:47 AM
Good project and very interesting thread to follow.

I must say that you're making progress faster than I am able to read ;) Keep it up!

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 15, 2010, 02:58:44 AM
Good project and very interesting thread to follow.

I must say that you're making progress faster than I am able to read ;) Keep it up!

Dan

Thanks Dan.

Didn't get a heap done today, I made a set of hinges for the doors (a couple of hours) nothing significant enough to photograph.

more tomorrow.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 17, 2010, 01:53:17 PM
Ive been sick for a couple of days, i managed to climb out of bed for a few hours to get some more work sent to the laser cutters, so im hoping that it will be ready by the time I'm feeling better.

More soon.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 17, 2010, 04:54:43 PM
Hopefully you will get back on your feet and the ballscrews and SS etc will turn up :)
Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 20, 2010, 06:01:10 PM
Its Sunday here and Ive been out of auction for almost a week >:(, i am feeling a little better and have taken the opportunity to
1. Draw up some of the laser cutting parts and send them off so that they will be ready for folding this week.
2. Milled the other half of the hinges for the rack doors. (will post a pic later)
3. Ordered and received a Smooth stepper from Peter Homann (took 3 days from send me...to delivery - you the man Peter!)
4. Chased up cnc4pc with the controller stuff, he must have some major inventory issues (hasn't even shipped yet, it happens).
5. Made up the Z motor mount (will post pics later)

Experts wanted:
1. I have 2x 269oz 2x 387oz 2x 425oz step motors from PH http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=25 my plan was to use a 269 for my X axiz and the 387 for the Z axis is this the best option?
2. I brought some Gecko G251 for the drivers assuming they would work fine - will they?
3. Is it possible to have a third axis that when enabled (with a switch) homes itself, then goes to the current z axis position, then mirrors  the z axis?


Other points I've been thinking about:
1. My pendant controller is going to have two MPGs one each for Z & X i assume i can do this with mach.
2. The door should really be on gas struts which are expensive, what are your thoughts on having a air ram open the door? I have plenty of air rams and fittings so it wouldn't cost hardly anything.
3. I would like to use the old mounts from the old z axis leadscrew if I do so ill have hardly any clearance (the center of the leadscrew is only 25mm away from the bed) if i do use this mounting position ill have to use belts as the motor center is 30mm to center. The X is belt driven anyway so its not a huge deal, if I do use a belt then i can gear the axis should I change motors and take advantage of the gearing?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on November 20, 2010, 06:46:47 PM
1. I have 2x 269oz 2x 387oz 2x 425oz step motors from PH http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=25 my plan was to use a 269 for my X axiz and the 387 for the Z axis is this the best option?

I would think so, but maybe the heaviest axis would be best with the biggest motor.


Quote
2. I brought some Gecko G251 for the drivers assuming they would work fine - will they?
As long as the currrent of your motors are compatible they should work fine.


Quote
3. Is it possible to have a third axis that when enabled (with a switch) homes itself, then goes to the current z axis position, then mirrors  the z axis?
Not sure about this, would need more explanation of what its actually for and when its going to be used.



Quote
1. My pendant controller is going to have two MPGs one each for Z & X i assume i can do this with mach.

No probs there as long as you have the Inputs Mach can handle 3 MPGs

Quote
2. The door should really be on gas struts which are expensive, what are your thoughts on having a air ram open the door? I have plenty of air rams and fittings so it wouldn't cost hardly anything.
No car scrappies in NZ? You should get a cheap gas strut there.
Air would work fine but adds complexity I suppose, just make sure you dont have too much air flow or you might get a Glasgow Kiss from the door ;D

Quote
3. I would like to use the old mounts from the old z axis leadscrew if I do so ill have hardly any clearance (the center of the leadscrew is only 25mm away from the bed) if i do use this mounting position ill have to use belts as the motor center is 30mm to center. The X is belt driven anyway so its not a huge deal, if I do use a belt then i can gear the axis should I change motors and take advantage of the gearing?
I prefer belt drives rather than direct, much easier to set up as direct needs precise alignment. Both my mills and my lathe have belt drives even though one of the mills and the lathe are driven 1:1 and thats the way they were built by the commercial machine tool builders.

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: budman68 on November 20, 2010, 07:00:28 PM
Quote
2. The door should really be on gas struts which are expensive, what are your thoughts on having a air ram open the door? I have plenty of air rams and fittings so it wouldn't cost hardly anything.

I have the gas struts on my door of my little Taig, and love them. They were $12.00 each. After seeing how much you've put into this already, is $12 struts expensive?

Dave
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 20, 2010, 07:13:23 PM
Quote
2. The door should really be on gas struts which are expensive, what are your thoughts on having a air ram open the door? I have plenty of air rams and fittings so it wouldn't cost hardly anything.

I have the gas struts on my door of my little Taig, and love them. They were $12.00 each. After seeing how much you've put into this already, is $12 struts expensive?

Dave

What a great looking machine! well done.
the only ones I have seen are like $180 each! you are quite right though  why to 99%
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 20, 2010, 07:18:49 PM
1. I have 2x 269oz 2x 387oz 2x 425oz step motors from PH http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=25 my plan was to use a 269 for my X axiz and the 387 for the Z axis is this the best option?

I would think so, but maybe the heaviest axis would be best with the biggest motor.

The 425oz are slower, ill try it and post the results.


Quote
3. Is it possible to have a third axis that when enabled (with a switch) homes itself, then goes to the current z axis position, then mirrors  the z axis?
Not sure about this, would need more explanation of what its actually for and when its going to be used.


More on this coming soon, ill get it all straight in my head frist.

thx
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Sam on November 20, 2010, 09:41:57 PM
"Gas springs" are the technical name for them. Searching for this term instead, may lead you to better, cheaper sources.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on November 21, 2010, 01:44:59 AM
I will second what Hood said - belt drives are easier to setup and in my opinion are the correct way to build a good machine. I think a 2:1 reduction will work great with the motor you chose. Another thing to consider when choosing the drives is the motor voltage. The G251 are 50V, so motors should be rated not more than some 3-4V if you want to get the max speed out of them.

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 21, 2010, 02:54:54 AM
Thanks for the reply Dan, I don't see how motor voltage makes a difference as long as the PSU is also 50v can you please explain.
2:1 is the motor the 2 or the 1?

thanks.

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: angel tech on November 21, 2010, 04:20:07 AM
motor would be the 2
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on November 21, 2010, 07:06:33 AM
Thanks for the reply Dan, I don't see how motor voltage makes a difference as long as the PSU is also 50v can you please explain.
2:1 is the motor the 2 or the 1?

thanks.

Hi,

Read this guide on stepper motors: http://geckodrive.com/upload/Step%20Motor%20Basics%20Guide.pdf

A very informative one.

And yes, the motor does 2 revolutions for each revolution of the screw.

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Sam on November 21, 2010, 02:13:46 PM
Quote
I don't see how motor voltage makes a difference as long as the PSU is also 50v can you please explain.

High speed torque increases as the ratio of the motor power supply to coil voltage increases. Typically, voltage to the motors are between 4-10 times the motors stated value. If your motors are 5V, then 10x5=50, and then your drives are at their maximum rated voltage. If your motors are something like 20v, then 10X20= 200V, which is way more than the drive will handle. If it were me, I would look for something under 5v, and stay away from maxing out the drive.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Sam on November 21, 2010, 02:33:07 PM
http://www.gasspringstruts.co.uk
http://www.strutsdirect.co.uk
seems pretty reasonable from the small amount of browsing I done.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 21, 2010, 03:24:51 PM
Quote
I don't see how motor voltage makes a difference as long as the PSU is also 50v can you please explain.

High speed torque increases as the ratio of the motor power supply to coil voltage increases. Typically, voltage to the motors are between 4-10 times the motors stated value. If your motors are 5V, then 10x5=50, and then your drives are at their maximum rated voltage. If your motors are something like 20v, then 10X20= 200V, which is way more than the drive will handle. If it were me, I would look for something under 5v, and stay away from maxing out the drive.

Can i make what i have work? what will be the downside if i do use what i have?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 21, 2010, 03:58:37 PM
http://www.gasspringstruts.co.uk
http://www.strutsdirect.co.uk
seems pretty reasonable from the small amount of browsing I done.

Gas strut $15, Shipping to NZ $65 Nice.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Sam on November 21, 2010, 04:04:28 PM
If you have the motors from Homann, you should be good to go.
Quote
Shipping to NZ $65 Nice.
Ouch  :(
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 22, 2010, 04:56:10 AM
It was a nice day to get out of bed and out of the house, I'm still quite sick but enough is enough.

Progress: the keyboard shelf well the first part of it anyway:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/keyshelfsmall.jpg)

The control panel, i have most of the buttons worked out, I'm thinking I'm going to need more though:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/controlsmall2.jpg)

Im staring to wish i had have thought of the keyboard back in the design process (not that there was much of one) i would have loved to put a little touch screen above the buttons there.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 23, 2010, 03:15:02 AM
I spent a few hours today working on the lower set of draws, this stuff is really fiddly but has to be done:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/drawsmall.jpg)

Ive got big problems, i had picked up on this throughout the build but knew i wouldn't be able to get a good idea of how far out things were until i had four sides together:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/probsmall.jpg)

There is huge variation in the in the gap along the top of the door id say there is around a 15mm height difference. This probibly happened during the welding up of the coolant trey, from what i can work out one end is way lower than the other. this is going to be a major to fix, I really don't know what I'm going to do.

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on November 23, 2010, 03:56:41 AM
There is huge variation in the in the gap along the top of the door id say there is around a 15mm height difference. This probibly happened during the welding up of the coolant tray, from what i can work out one end is way lower than the other. this is going to be a major to fix, I really don't know what I'm going to do.

It's wonderful what a decorative trim strip can do to cover up such small problems! Get creative.

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 23, 2010, 04:52:37 AM
I hadn't thought of that, a great way to avoid cutting the coolant tray from the base and re welding it.

thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 24, 2010, 02:32:39 AM
Got a few hours today, spent them on the MPG tunnel:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/mpg2.jpg)

After that i spent some time trying to realign the door, i think im going to be able to get away without cutting the coolant tray off and reattaching it. i can see it now clear as day that it is warped in two opposing corners. lathe is looking good yes?

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/mpg3.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 24, 2010, 02:33:24 AM
Oh btw good shipping conformation from cnc4pc parts are on there way yeeha!
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on November 24, 2010, 02:41:00 AM
The lathe is starting to shape up really nice. I like it a lot!

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 27, 2010, 04:05:05 AM
Slow progress at the moment as all of this stuff is really fiddly and takes a lot of time to get right.

slide rails are all in ready for the draws:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/slidessmall.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 30, 2010, 03:10:10 AM
Anyone who is wondering what is going on? I'm waiting for the:

Nine9 engraving tool - late next week
CNC4PC control gear - any day now
Ball screws - Hoping next week
Laserpro - Draws, struts etc - early next week


What has turned up:
Angular contacts
Peter Hamann - Smooth stepper, Steppers, PSU
Gecko - Drivers

Ive been working on tidying up the mill so she's ready to work as soon as the other stuff shows up.

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 03, 2010, 02:31:03 AM
Good news:

CNC4PC - customs called for their cut, should be at my place by Tuesday
Ball screws have arrived at the distributor and have been shipped, might turn up tomorrow.
Picked up the struts for the door from laserpro today

Engraving tool is on back order and is expected in anther week. - mill is out of action at the moment anyway.

It will be real nice to get back int this project, I need a lathe!
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 05, 2010, 02:41:52 PM
More fiddly stuff this weekend, works perfectly, i haven't decided if ill go with air struts or air rams, i am leaning towards rams as it has the added bonus of closing with force.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/strutssmall.jpg)

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 07, 2010, 02:30:04 AM
finnaly got all the stuff in from all of the diffrent places throughout the world to get some motors turning. Here is the PSU (PH), G251's (gecko), C32 & C36 (CNC4PC) and Smooth Stepper (CNC4PC & PH i have two)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/controllersmall.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on December 07, 2010, 02:39:19 AM
Very clean and tidy!

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 07, 2010, 05:58:55 AM
Ive been thinking about how to control the VSD, the C32 has 0-10v and M3 M4 relays specifically for this which is cool and all but JHChopers got me thinking long and hard about using the RS485 port and how cool his machine is.

Anyone care to chime in on pros and cons of using analogue out vs RS485?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: JHChoppers on December 07, 2010, 09:47:01 AM
The analog 0-10V can be hard to calibrate to match your target speed and can be jerky depending on your hardware setup.  The cost is only 30 - 40 USD for the control board and takes 3 or 4 I/O lines to control it.

I do like the RS485 modbus, as you can use it for both commands to the VFD (set target Hz/RPM, ON, OFF) this saves I/O, as well as monitor stats from the VFD (AMPS, Temperature, Diagnostics)  The RS484 card might cost you 50 - 100 USD (might find cheap one on eBay for less)  They put modbus on the VFDs for a reason: signal to noise ratio

Just my thoughts,
JH

BTW:  Your lathe has is looking nice !

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 07, 2010, 02:46:07 PM
I was hoping you were still following the tread.

The RS484 cardyour talking about, what is it? can i not just use a USB to RS484 box, i guess the RS232 port on the PC is no good?

Thanks.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: JHChoppers on December 07, 2010, 03:43:05 PM
You can use PCI to RS484 card or a USB to RS485 box.  I used a box from sealevel, but after looking on eBay, there are some cheaper ones that might work also.

(Don't worry, I been watching this thread.... keep up the great work)

JH
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 07, 2010, 11:25:57 PM
Wow, is it just me or do steppers get hot? I have double checked the current set resistor on my X axis (smaller motor) my Z is the max 3.5a for the drive so no need for a current set resistor. both motors are hot.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on December 07, 2010, 11:40:01 PM
Wow, is it just me or do steppers get hot?

You should not let them get too hot. It isn't necessary. Look into current limiting resistors or current limiting by active means, and see just how much grunt you really need.

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 08, 2010, 12:04:20 AM
How hot is to hot is the question, or i guess an even better question is what is the typical operating temperature of steppers?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 08, 2010, 12:06:29 AM
A quick google search reveals http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=35389
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on December 08, 2010, 02:38:32 AM
It is normal for steppers to get hot. Their operating temperatures are fairly high. Up to 70 degrees Celsius is absolutely normal. If you can't hold your hand on it for more than one second then it's about 65 degrees.

The G251 has a current reduction feature while motor is idle, but to enable it you must use a current limiting resistor, even if it is the top 3.5A of the drive.

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 08, 2010, 02:49:46 AM
I have the resistors in place thanks Dan, its my first time using steppers, my servo machine doesn't get hot at all.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 08, 2010, 03:26:55 AM
I spent another day working on the control box, i have been resisting writing this post however as it is a blog if my opinion changes i will just post again.

The C32 Board from CNC4PC $186
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=255
combined with Smooth Stepper $165
http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=51&products_id=185

Don't forget there was a lot of contemplation over this choice versus the Gecko G100 Grex (dont even bother looking for it on Geckos site it is a discontinued model only available to people who already own em).

G100:
Ethernet connection
full 6 axis control
16 digital inputs
4 analogue inputs
16 digital outputs
4 analogue outputs
Built in watch dog/charge pump
Price $399

Pros: Very clear layout, IP addressable
Cons: No longer supported, difficult to firmware flash (for most) 

C32
USB (via the SS board)
Full 4 axis control with partial 6 axis control
1 analogue output with scalable voltage control (spindle)
3 on board relays
16 inputs
10 outputs (plus an additional 8 used for axis control in 4 axis mode 2 per axis)
smart circut for Geckos
Pendant connection
Built in watch dog/charge pump
Thorough opto isolation
Price $351 (inc SS)

Pros: Simple on board RJ45 connectors, plug and play pendant,
Cons: Complex to wire for power but thorough, no analogue inputs

Would i buy one again......well thats the $25M question, I would have to say that if the G100 was still being developed there would be no question about it i would buy the Grex, however it is not.........the Jury is still out, ill let you know once i have wired all of the I/O's

Finally i can say that Arturo (CNC4PC) provides excellent email support and that for me is a good reason to continue to buy his other products.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 10, 2010, 04:09:59 AM
Spent the day folding and welding my draws up, this sort of thing is really easy to get wrong, 2mm to wide and the draw wont fit, 2mm to small and it wont roll on the slides nicely, time will tell if I have it right.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/draws1small.jpg)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/draws2small.jpg)

I dont want to cut, fold and attach the fronts untill i know exactly what size to make them. Its Saturday tomorrow (here) my goal is to get all six draws on the rails and rolling ready to measure up the fronts.

Update:
Electronics, almost all done.
Motor mounts, not happy with them, am going to redo them.
Ball screws, have not turned up yet :(

I'm trying to think up a good name / model number or something for the machine as i'm going to get some blue pin stripes and logos cut from vinyl, any suggestions are welcome. i was thinking something like HMC-2000 (horizontal machining center) and the 2000 comes from the world famous ginsu knives that can cut through a lead pipe and a shoe!

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on December 10, 2010, 04:52:17 AM
Quote
I'm trying to think up a good name / model number or something for the machine

THING!

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: angel tech on December 10, 2010, 05:13:40 AM
how about AL54B 2011
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 10, 2010, 05:30:21 AM
You know ginsu's knives were crap, How about something with Vortex in it?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 10, 2010, 10:54:01 PM
Progress, this is a cover just to hide the chip bin and Vector drive etc, shes a real tight fit:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/chipcoversmall.jpg)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/chipcover2small.jpg)

The rest of the day was spent fitting the draws:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/drawsfit.jpg)

I love the way the sliders extend the draws way out:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/drawsfit2.jpg)

I still have the top two to fit, i will have to order 2 more sliders though as i added one extra draw.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: JHChoppers on December 11, 2010, 09:09:59 AM
Nice fab work as always.

JH
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 14, 2010, 12:22:01 AM
My ball screws turned up :) the short one 350mm is only 15.2mm not the described 16mm so the nut that i ground for the x slide don't fit :(

Nothing quite like waiting 4 weeks for a part that don't fit.

Ive had a hard couple of days at work so haven't had time to work on the lathe, hoping to get more time on Thursday.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: NuttyforNissan on December 14, 2010, 01:41:58 AM
That's bad news, maybe a smaller nut will fit better in the confined space you're working with.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 14, 2010, 06:38:57 AM
I got my Nine9 Engraving tool in the mail about a week back, my mill has been out of auction so i havnt had the change to have a play.

Here is the tool:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/nine9small.jpg)

My first time engraving so ran it real slow and easy:

F100 X&Y F50 Z

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/eng3small.jpg)

got sick of waiting for it, F200 X&Y F100 Z

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/eng2small.jpg)

lessons learned:
Work must be perfectly flat, not easy on super thin material, any lifting causes the cutter to got a little to deep and the lines get thick fast.
Must use lube! i just gave this a blast with CRC it really helped.

Problems:
The carbide has chipped (red arrows) ( :( $50US per insert) and i don't know why, there are wear marks on the shaft (white) and i dont know why. i watched the entire job and the shaft and cutter never cam in contact with anything, its got me puzzled.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/nine9brokesmall.jpg)







Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: NuttyforNissan on December 14, 2010, 06:22:10 PM
Double sided tape works well to keep it flat.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on December 15, 2010, 05:35:15 AM
I have one of the nine9 engraving cutters, mine is the 45 degree one, yours looks like the 60.
I havent had any problems with it chipping up the side like yours so not sure whats happening there, presume you are spinning it fast enough for the feed?
Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 15, 2010, 02:28:40 PM
4000RPM is max for my machine, according to the documentation 0.02-0.08 (mm/rev) is does suggest a S speed of between 5000-20000 RPM, what do you run yours at?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on December 15, 2010, 02:40:17 PM
My max spindle is 3800 and I think 200mm/min is what I usually run at, so just a bit over 0.05mm/rev

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 16, 2010, 02:09:08 AM
Got the draw fronts folded up today, isnt this project really starting to come along?
Why is the middle one missing, was just to tight, need to spend a bit more time making it fit.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/drawfrontssmall.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on December 16, 2010, 03:16:59 AM
Coming along nicely! Time to get it painted...

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 16, 2010, 06:04:03 AM
Still got a long way to go before she will be ready for paint.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: JHChoppers on December 16, 2010, 09:58:53 AM
Your sheet metal skills are awesome, we just use a hammer on sheet metal, glaze it, then paint it.  Your stuff looks great, to bad we are 12 times zones apart :)

JH
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 16, 2010, 01:53:33 PM
It must be the camera!

Here is what i've learned:
I get everything laser cut, even the small bits because i know they will be perfectly sized and square.
When folding its easy to add a little more its hard to take a little back.
If it ant right then do it again even if it means starting again, the quickest way is not always the fastest way!

All my sheet is Eg 1mm (electronically galvanized) any thicker is to hard to work with.
Rivnuts are a savior with sheet metal, if you don't have a tool get one and don't be cheap you'll regret it.

Thanks JH, your machine is awesome, ive got to keep you interested as im going to need help with some of the programing (just got my usb to 485 converter).

cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on December 16, 2010, 02:04:23 PM
The sheet metal shop we work with would cut it and CNC fold it to the drawing and the prices are so low (most of the price is the laser cutting) it makes it not worth messing with folding it manually, even if it's a simple bend. Ask your laser shop if they can bend it. Only adds up something like 2 bucks for a bend.

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 22, 2010, 02:19:27 AM
Got my Z axis ball screw dialed up and bolted down today:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/zmnt2.jpg)

Closer view of the free floating end, is the original mount bored with a bearing:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/zmntfree.jpg)

I got this block with the ball screw, it had a crappy chinese bearing in it, agin bored out to take the bigger Japanese bearing:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/zmnt1.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on December 22, 2010, 04:29:01 AM
Looking good! What a pleasant surprise that the new bearings block and the original one align on same plane.

What accuracy grade are the ball screws?

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 22, 2010, 02:35:41 PM
They are the cheap kind, Chinese made. I just didnt have the money for anything of significant quality, however they are a "Zero backlash ball screw" and they are hardened all the way through not just on the outside.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 22, 2010, 02:36:26 PM
I sure am getting sick of seeing this:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/error.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on December 23, 2010, 01:06:02 AM
Had this happen several times over the last few days. I am sure it is being worked on though.

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 23, 2010, 01:30:37 AM
So today it was time to work on the X axis motor mount, here is the test piece i cut, its about .5mm to high in one spot, all the hole line up fine and thats what mattered most:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/testsmall.jpg)

There is just no clearance for the slide to clear the bearings, I'm hesitant to take any more off the slide so this is what i came up with, once the top is on no swarf will make it into the bearing:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/bottomsmall.jpg)

here is the middle section, you can see how it will clamp down on the bearings:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/middlesmall.jpg)

The mark on the right face is were i forgot to use offsets.

And finally the reason i like to put everything together before i paint it:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/handlesmall.jpg)

Notice the bottom draw front got welded on upside down, I'll drill new holes and weld up the others rather than re mount the front - it took ages to get right.

Cheers guys (and girls) and have a great Christmas.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on December 23, 2010, 02:39:47 PM
Why didn't you use the original X screw mount extension concept? Not the most rigid setup to have the bearings exposed like this and in an aluminium block. It does look creative though :)

Dan

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 23, 2010, 02:55:18 PM
1. my slide comes all the way out over the motor so unless i mount the motor backwards ill never have the room.
2. the original mount is way to small for the new bearings.

I disagree as long as you have good bulk on ether side of the bearing your just not going to apply enough pressure to the bearing collar to get it to deflect, the inside has 200mm of cast iron slide and the outside had 30mm of Ali, im exposing probably less that 1/3 of the bearing which is hardened steel, the motors will give out or the belts will break before there is any significant deflection.

comments anyone with more experience?

cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on December 23, 2010, 03:18:12 PM
Hi,

1. my slide comes all the way out over the motor so unless i mount the motor backwards ill never have the room.

I know. I think it is worth considering.

2. the original mount is way to small for the new bearings.

Was suggesting to use the concept. Not the same mount.

I disagree as long as you have good bulk on ether side of the bearing your just not going to apply enough pressure to the bearing collar to get it to deflect, the inside has 200mm of cast iron slide and the outside had 30mm of Ali, im exposing probably less that 1/3 of the bearing which is hardened steel, the motors will give out or the belts will break before there is any significant deflection.

comments anyone with more experience?

cheers

It all comes down to the final rigidity of the machine. Motors and belts don't give you rigidity. Frame construction, mounts, bearings, slides and screws do. Your setup may and probably will work fine, but will be far less rigid than a proper steel mounting blocks. Depends on what you intend to be using the lathe for I guess.

Dan

 
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 23, 2010, 03:46:03 PM
Not the most rigid setup to have the bearings exposed like this and in an aluminium block.

It seemed like you were saying that by enclosing the bearing the machine will be more ridged, yes i guess in theory by adding 100 grams of extra metal it will be more rigid, practically though if rigidity is a problem ill add 100kgs of epoxy granite.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on December 23, 2010, 03:53:51 PM
1. my slide comes all the way out over the motor so unless i mount the motor backwards ill never have the room.
2. the original mount is way to small for the new bearings.
I disagree as long as you have good bulk on ether side of the bearing your just not going to apply enough pressure to the bearing collar to get it to deflect, the inside has 200mm of cast iron slide and the outside had 30mm of Ali, im exposing probably less that 1/3 of the bearing which is hardened steel, the motors will give out or the belts will break before there is any significant deflection.

I admit I was a bit startled at first when I saw the way the bearing housing was cut away, but ...

First of all, the driving/cutting forces will be along the axis of the leadscrew, and the amount of metal used seems adequate for the size of the lathe. The inner aluminium support is not fat, but it is backed up by the steel body. The outer aluminium plate is quite fat enough. The holding bolts are large (bigger than the originals?). This is not a production machine for car axles after all.

Second, the forces due to the drive belt are all downwards, not upwards. The bearing is well supported underneath.

Third, the bearing itself is quite a solid unit and does not look as though it would flex very much :-)

So while it is hardly conventional, I can't see too many reasons why the arrangement would not work.

My 2c
Cheers and Merry Xmas



Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: angel tech on December 23, 2010, 04:32:35 PM
Watching this thread develope has got me thinking of converting a Harrison M300 to cnc. I have a 3hp Boxford 240 cnc lathe at the moment, but now and again i need a bit more z movement than the slant bed boxford will allow, and the harrison M300 sat in the back of my storage would make a lovely straight bed cnc.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 23, 2010, 05:07:01 PM

I admit I was a bit startled at first when I saw the way the bearing housing was cut away, but ...


You got to do what you got to do to make it work, the bearings are still sealed and well supported (32x10mm each)

Quote

So while it is hardly conventional, I can't see too many reasons why the arrangement would not work.


Were going to find out pretty soon eh!
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on December 24, 2010, 09:40:48 AM
Never said it was not going to work ;) It's just not the common way to do this - press fitting a bearing in a sectioned housing...

Yes, we'll know soon how it works out. I guess no one has done this before, so your experience may help others. If anything, the biggest problem is going to be when using a 3mm part-off tool in alloy steel 30mm in diameter.

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: RICH on December 24, 2010, 10:32:37 AM
I think it will be just fine all considering. Post adjustment and preload of the bearings just a few drops of crazy glue will make that bearing an intregal part of the mounting.
Retrofits require trade offs and in this case not reducing the depth section of the above cross slide is probably to the better.
Rich
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: JHChoppers on December 24, 2010, 10:45:06 AM
Retrofits require trade offs and in this case not reducing the depth section of the above cross slide is probably to the better.

Agreed, its not like this is a production machine running 8 hours a day... 

Its looking great and I know it will work great too.  Yours skills are good, so if you need to make additional modifications you can, this is the first pass, you my need to do a second pass as you learn how it works.  Just because you make something, doesn't mean its final.

JH
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: RICH on December 24, 2010, 11:24:25 AM
JH,
The x axis is a tough one since it is short travel. So every thing needs to be able to float some to make the initial adjustments and then it gets locked in.
You may want to consider drilling  small holes ( tap also so you can plug the holes ) so you can adjust the ball nut mounting screws since they are hidden when everthing is put together.
They would be located when the axis is nearest and farthest from the bearing. A little thought now on how you will adjust everything will save a lot of fooling around later.

From a design point of view, one could go in and analyze the axis and use calculations to guide ones decision on what to do or being done. 
Not as easy as one would think since the calc's are subjective. Sometimes just easier to make and modify as needed.

BTW, you want to preload the two bearings as that may be a greater source of backlash than the nut. I just assume you'll do that with a nut on the shaft. Would be nice to be able to measure the torque
differences due to preloading. I am lucky as i have a good torque gauge.

Just a few thoughts,
RICH
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Overloaded on December 24, 2010, 11:47:50 AM
I'm with Rich on the preloading.
On my 2nd lathe, I used 2 Premium motor bearings, not the super expensive matched set.
I adjusted the preload by inserting shims between the outer races until I had a bit of torque interference with the nut fully torqued to spec.
No gauge (Rich has all the cool toys).
Think I ended up with 0.004" shim.
Backlash ended up in the neighborhood of 0.00015".

The X screw on my SuperMax has dual tapered roller bearings back to back and shimmed. I was surprised, very tuneable.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: RICH on December 24, 2010, 12:13:09 PM
Hey Russ, when i bought that $600 gauge for $40  and my friend asked what in the world i wanted it for.
I told him it was part of my "collection" of stuff to gather dust from the air. It has  really come in handy.
It can give you definitive info on binding that would otherwise be very hard to pinpoint.
Keep the eyes open for that useless stuff if one can rationalize buying it. Sure does beat a stick with a rock on the end.

Another one is the small adjustable torque screw drivers ( they allow nice adjustment of set screws so you tighten the gibs just so ).
The set i have is from Utica, are calibrated, and cover 1 to 100 in oz. Like new for the cost of a can of beer.......

Sorry JH, but hopefully the tools used here relate to the retrofit adjustment,

RICH

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on December 24, 2010, 02:18:23 PM
A lot of good advice here guys, clearance is the biggest issue with this part of the build, the lathe is really small to begin with so that really impacts a lot on my decisions. I want to beef up what ever parts i can along the way ie. the x ball screw was 12mm it is now 16mm, the bearings were 8mm id 20mm od hey are now 12 x 32.

I think the point of failure on this part of the build is going to be the way I have mounted the nut, I forget how small the clearance was but from memory the nut could be no bigger than 28x28mm and for a 16mm ball screw thats tough.

I'm having a good time in the mean time and i can always do it again if im not happy, I really just need my lathe up an running again.
 
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on January 20, 2011, 04:02:45 AM
Yes im still alive, i've been called out of town for work till the end of the month so have not been able to work on my machine.

Cheers.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on January 20, 2011, 04:56:17 AM
the nut could be no bigger than 28x28mm and for a 16mm ball screw thats tough.
Have a look at
http://www.linearbearings.com.au/Portals/0/BNT%20Platform%20Nut.pdf
It might fit; it might not.

Some other good stuff at that web site. I have used the THK stuff before - not cheap, but very nice and probably worth the money imho.

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on February 19, 2011, 01:05:40 AM
I took the day off today (from my normal job) to do more work! good news is i have made progress on the machine.

The 4th draw did not fit, it was just to tight i got a new front cut and got all of the draws to fit and got em all sliding without hitting each other.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/draws%20done.jpg)

I was never happy with the way the control panel fit on the machine so i decided to make I new one I thought id add a few more buttons as well.
Also in this picture you can see one of the air rams that will open the door once the job is done, wont know if this was a good or bad idea until ive run the machine for a few months, in the mean time i get to play with pneumatics.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/control%20new.jpg)

Finally I have finished the bearing block and motor mount, I need one more part cut for the inside and still have to size and order the belt but the milling is all done!

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/ram%20side.jpg)

Another shot from the front:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/bearing%20block.jpg)

I pleased with how everything fits, not a bad days work.

Cheers.


Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on February 19, 2011, 01:51:37 AM
Pressurised oil on the bed of an AL54B?
I'll bet that has never been done before!

Hum ... doesn't look quite like the original any more, does it?

Are you going to cover the main axis leadscrew?

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on February 19, 2011, 03:49:32 AM
Are you going to cover the main axis leadscrew?

I would like to but I'm out of ideas as to how.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on February 19, 2011, 04:01:12 AM
Bellows:
http://www.kellysearch.com/qz-product-7917.html

Closer to home:
http://www.linearbearings.com.au/Products/BellowsDustBoots/tabid/138/Default.aspx

http://www.oreca.com.au/

Alternately, buy some suitable fabric, cut out disks, and either sew together (tricky) or just STAPLE together.
PVC-coated fabric will do fine, and is cheap.

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: RICH on February 19, 2011, 04:57:47 AM
JRSLICK22,
May want to consider what i did for covering the screw on my converted Atlas lathe.
Works great and was better than usiing a shower curtain rod cover.  ;)
RICH
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on February 19, 2011, 05:45:28 AM
Neat idea.
Aluminium? That tends to scuff and wear a bit normally.
Some shim SS or brass would look awful neat though ...

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: JHChoppers on February 19, 2011, 10:21:43 AM
Nice days work.  Sometimes when you step back for a couple days, you redo things ....  Evolution of the lathe, can't wait to see the chips flying.

JH
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on February 25, 2011, 12:18:31 AM
I got the belt today and mounted the motor, all indicators seem good, sprocket is just for hand cranking the axis for testing.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/motor%20mounted.jpg)

Spent a little time getting her plumbed up also:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/tubing.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on February 25, 2011, 05:24:37 AM
Looking good :)
Only comment I would make is copper pipe may be better if its anywhere near where hot swarf may be.
Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 11, 2011, 05:11:59 PM
Z Motor mount is all done, i haven't had a lot of time as of late but i am still trying to make progress on this project.

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/z-motor.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: joeblow on April 14, 2011, 06:43:07 AM
WOW!


What a fantastic job. I am halfway through a CNC conversion on this same lathe, but my enclosure is no where near as great as that one. I'm a total nube when it comes to this stuff and I am glad I have found this thread. Keep up the great work.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 14, 2011, 06:57:51 AM
Please start a threat id love to see your machine.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 14, 2011, 05:06:36 PM
I got the Z axiz nut mount cut out and mounted tonight.
from the front:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/z%20nut%20mnt.jpg)

and the back:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/z%20nut%20mnt%20back.jpg)

I even went as far as hooking the step motors up to my mills 4th axis (mill runs servos on the other axis), so i guess......its alive!

cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on April 14, 2011, 05:38:25 PM
I got the Z axiz nut mount cut out and mounted tonight.

Looks very neat.
I have a tiny concern about the rigidity of that mount though. The ball screw is a long way (so to speak) from the friction on the bed. The original had a rack attached much closer to the bed.  I would think about adding a little bit of reinforcing to the plate but parallel to the bed myself, but I may be fretting too much.

Unless, of course, you could move the ball screw a lot closer to the surface of the bed?

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 14, 2011, 05:57:52 PM
Oh sorry dude, the machine is not finished yet.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 16, 2011, 05:38:53 AM
I got a bit more done on the housing today:

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/house-fr.jpg)

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/house-bk.jpg)

I'm not sure if you've see the control panel with the buttons mounted?

(http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/control.jpg)

Thanks for looking.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on May 30, 2011, 07:22:02 AM
Call me daft but can someone help me figure out where to change the spindle number in mach3 turn, it seems to be fixed at  pulley number 1?
Also I'm after an OEM code for Spindle CW toggle? (the equivalent of 173) im trying to rig up a manual forward and reverse switch.

thx
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Peter Homann on May 30, 2011, 08:22:12 AM
It's under the top menu Config->Spindle Pulleys  :)

Cheers,

Peter
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on May 30, 2011, 08:53:38 AM
Yeah thats to configure them,but how to select during operation?
In mill you just punch in what gear your in on that page, turn wont let me do that, i, running silver/blue screen set.

thx
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Peter Homann on May 30, 2011, 09:14:37 AM
You can select which one you want to use from that config dialog box, or if you go to the Diagnotics page in turn you can just select the fully dro on the bottom left with the mouse, then type the new pulley number in there.

Cheers,

Peter.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Peter Homann on May 30, 2011, 09:21:34 AM
OK, just looked at the silver blue screen set and the spindle pulley DRO is not displayed anywhere. :(

So I guess you will need to set it through the config dialog box.

Cheers,

Peter.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Hood on June 06, 2011, 08:40:20 AM
Or make up custom macros to write to the spindle DRO to change it to whatever gear you want. For example a macro named something like
m101 for pulley 1
m102 for pulley 2
etc etc

The macro for m101 would simply  have the following in it.

SetOemDRO(56,1)

m102 would have

SetOemDRO(56,2)

etc etc


Then when you called m101 from MDI or code the pulley would be set to 1, m102 it would be set to 2 etc etc

Hood
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on June 09, 2011, 07:03:43 PM
its alive:

http://<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HhZ3m7R_h4E?hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HhZ3m7R_h4E?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Yes i know i should have screw covers and way covers bla bla..... I needed the part.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on June 09, 2011, 07:10:56 PM
how to embed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhZ3m7R_h4E
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on June 09, 2011, 07:47:53 PM
how to embed?

I'll bet the feeling of satisfaction is only surpassed by the feeling of relief!
Congrats.

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on June 10, 2011, 01:58:41 AM
Isn't it so much rewarding to finally see it in action :)

I like the G251 - it almost makes steppers sound like servos. Still not on all speeds though.

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Katoh on June 13, 2011, 07:42:30 PM
jrslick22
I have to say that's a top job! looks mighty professional indeed.
I've been following this post with interest, I have the same lathe that I will convert once I get some more time. I have to ask, Why didn't  you use the existing lead screws on the lathe?
We all know bath ball screws are better but when you have the lead screws there already , why not utilise them?
Well Done
Katoh
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on June 14, 2011, 07:54:51 AM
Simple, accuracy. I have put this on the dial and get about .03 - .02 mm accuracy, you have no hope of getting those sort of results with the standard screws in fact i would be surprised if you could get it within .2.

I sill have a lot to do on this machine before its finished, if i was doing it again i would do a lot different. most of the things I'd do different wold be the enclosure not the machine.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on June 14, 2011, 08:28:47 AM
Not quite so. Lead screws can be very accurate. Not sure what are the numbers you measured. It is common to speak of a ball screw in terms of accuracy over a given length. Thus, for instance, a C5 accuracy grade would mean about 0.03mm acceptable error in travel over 300mm. Accuracy grade definition varies from one manufacturer to another, so the above example is not dictated by a standard.

Lead screws can easily hold those accuracies. So, when using ball screws it's not really an accuracy demand. Ball screws allow you to have minimal backlash (practical zero), which is often desired in a CNC application. Also, ball screws run quieter and higher speeds can be achieved without the risk of heating the nut and wearing it. Of course they wear slower. Theoretically you can have a lead screw set up to have zero backlash, but it will hardly last.

Dan

EDIT:

Forgot your lathe was Chinese, so the original screws may have been poor quality and not as accurate ;)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Katoh on June 14, 2011, 08:47:16 AM
Thanks for the reply, yes I can see you have put a heap work in the enclosure, was it planned or a do it as it comes job?
I haven't even opened my lathe up yet its still sitting in the crate wrapped in plastic, so not really sure where or when to start.
I will probably sort all the mechanical out first, drives, motors screws, ect and get it to a fully working unit before thinking about enclosures.
If you dont mind, save me going through all the post again what size steppers did you use? and how did you go changing the x lead-screw to ball screw?
One thing that I dont know if anyone has look into is the Igus lead screw nuts to replace the existing, they are polymer, have zero backlash, and are dust and dirt resistant. I use Igus liner's (polymer type) on my router and they are extremely impressive, very accurate and still operate under a ton of dust. Mind you you need a lot more grunt to push the gantry, but still it cruises at 3m/min and rapids at 5m/min.
not bad for a 150kg gantry on polymers.
Backlash can also be controlled in Mach.
Many thanks for the Info and again you have done well!
Cheers
Katoh
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on June 14, 2011, 05:17:36 PM
Yeah plastic nuts might work, I've got a set of them but have not yet used em.
X axis was very very hard as the clearances are really tight, I think if I were doing it again i would make a whole new slide that was say 50mm thick as apposed to the standard 20mm I think it is, but then again I think if I were doing it again I would build the whole thing from scratch.
I sort of had an idea that i wanted a fully enclosed lathe, they look way cool and for me keeping the mess in and out was a must apart from that I just maid it up as I went along. tip: Next time i would get the sheet metal cut and folded first then build the frame inside the sheet metal, this way you can use the sheet to keep everything square. mine is square but it took a hell of a lot to get her there.
I got my steppers from http://www.homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=25 i used the 269 for the X and the 287 for the Z with 1:1 timing pulleys, it does 3.5mps on rapids (speed was important)


Hope this helps
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Katoh on June 14, 2011, 07:35:03 PM
Again thanks for the info. With the X axis ball screw would a smaller screw worked better? say a 12 or even a 10mm.
for the z I see there's plenty of room to use the 16 or 20mm screws.
Have you got a set of the Igus polymer nuts? Do you think they would work if you just used the original screws? I still haven't found time to even unpack the lathe, its not at the top of the to-do list, if I can get enough information now I could good things ordered and here ready to go instead of start- stopping waiting on parts.
Cheers
Katoh
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on June 14, 2011, 08:20:35 PM
For the money I would just replace the screws, why bother spending the time.
Yes i think a 12mm one would work, mines 16mm. i would go 20mm for the Z, mines 16mm.
I got mine from Chai in hong kong her ebay contact is: http://myworld.ebay.com.au/linearmotionbearings2008/

cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Katoh on June 15, 2011, 10:10:57 AM
I was looking at the same people for the screws but there's a bloke here in Aus as well that's pretty competitive, I'm definitely going to look at putting a 12mm BS in the X, Do you think 20mm in Z could be overkill?
Finely unravelled some of the plastic wrapping tonight, trying to get some specs of the motor, well mine doesn't even have a motor! The original motor was it 2 pole 2880rpm or 4 pole 1440rpm. I have found 1hp 4pole 3phase motor on ebay for $10.00 with a small footprint, could be absolutely perfect. The other thing is what sort of drive pulley was on the motor, that's missing as well.
Thanks
Katoh
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on June 15, 2011, 03:01:51 PM
Katoh,

If you ask me, 20mm is definitely overkill for this machine. Keep in mind that the ball nut will be huge - the mounting flange being some 50mm in diameter. A 16mm diameter will have plenty strength for this machine. Even a 10mm one will cope well with those loads, but a 16mm one will not even "feel" the them ;)

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on June 16, 2011, 04:54:50 PM
Hey guys i need to buy 2x 7204 angular contact bearings from the US (they want $50 US each here wow!) my friend lives in Carolina and will send them to me with a few other things i need. does anyone have any recommendations on a on line supplier?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Katoh on June 17, 2011, 01:37:52 AM
Last time I bought Double row angular bearings cost me a fortune well $270 for 4 but they were 3202 2r/s. I got those through M&G in Fyswick ACT. Have you tried CTC bearings, Personally I would just keep looking on Ebay.
You could try http://www.surpluscenter.com or even Try Mcmaster-Carr in the US, If there pricing is OK contact me and Ill show you how to get it shipped as they dont do international, surpluscenter will do international and there shipping is very cheap.
Good luck
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on June 17, 2011, 02:05:53 AM
Super precision angular bearings are very expensive. If you say $50 each that doesn't sound like a super precision bearing. So here you go:

http://bearingsdirect.com/

http://www.vxb.com/

http://arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Bearings/Angular-Contact-Ball-Bearings   (in the UK and doesn't have your size, but otherwise good pricing)

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Katoh on April 09, 2012, 10:29:47 PM
Hi jrslick22
Its being quite a while, how's your lathe going?
I have mine nearly there, I would say around 90% done. But I'm really interested in how yours has turned out and how well it works.
Let us Know.
Cheers
Katoh
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 10, 2012, 05:18:16 PM
Its basically were i left off in the blog, I got the parts cut with it in the state it was so the pressure is off. I also ended up buying a Taiwanese tool room lathe as I always figured I would so that has again taken a lot of pressure off, then i built a new work shop, had to move, had to rebuild the mill and the list goes on.
I'm about 3/4 through the mill rebuild so imagine ill be getting to the lathe by about May/June.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Katoh on April 11, 2012, 01:47:59 AM
Good to see your still going with it, time is my biggest killer at the moment, too many projects at once. I ended up buying a Bridgport Mill also, its just sitting at present. Have to finish all the others before I convert that one.
Keep in touch with progress on the lathe, I may have mine running by the end of May/June also.
Love to see also what your turning out with the lathe.
Cheers
Katoh
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 11, 2012, 03:30:10 AM
I'm way more excited about my mill than i am my lathe, the manual is real nice and i have all the nice bits an bobs to make it easy to use. I just find the mills more fun to program etc, lathes tend to turn parts out quickly but the parts are pretty simple, the mill will take a massive lump of material and turn it into some fantastic part.

Ether way ill get there, ill start a mill blog once i have it pretty much done anyway, its the same look and color as the lathe, i'm pretty happy with how its all going so far.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Katoh on April 11, 2012, 08:31:21 AM
Good luck with your mill! They are good fun, Once I get some pics of my lathe, not that I want to take any now as its a bit of a mess, but once tidied up, Ill post them too, If you don't mind Ill post them on the same thread, it will be a nice comparison what you can do with the same lathe base.
What mill did you buy? After the mill all you need is a router, I'm working the other way, built the router now the lathe, and then the mill. If I had any brains would of done it in reverse.
Cheers
Katoh
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 11, 2012, 05:13:17 PM
RF45, to many machines not enough space!
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jonny quest on April 12, 2012, 05:08:22 PM
Are you building an enclosure for the rf45?

I'm building one for mine right now, and would love to see other designs
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 12, 2012, 06:19:53 PM
Yes i am, im a few days away from having the bulk of it together too, i'm supposed to pick up some parts from the laser cutter today, ill post a couple of teasers when i get a sec.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jonny quest on April 12, 2012, 07:23:53 PM
Please do! I bought all the metal, but haven't started yet...
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jonny quest on April 12, 2012, 07:26:48 PM
The Industrial hobbies forum is great over at CNC zone. It's basically a rf45 style mill.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 12, 2012, 07:31:25 PM
Yeah i follow it but prefer the smaller community over here for posting, GD marsh has been a big source for inspiration.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jonny quest on April 13, 2012, 10:21:42 PM
Get any pics uploaded yet of rf45 enclosure?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 14, 2012, 02:11:35 AM
there is a hell of a lot of work in this, i finally got it painted (today), im really happy with how it has turned out, same paint as the lathe, more soon.

(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o482/jrslick22/millstand1.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on April 14, 2012, 06:01:50 AM
Looks good so far.

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 14, 2012, 06:15:40 AM
thx

A bit of an expination:
The pedistals are cut to the same site as the foot on the base of the mill, these were first bolted to the mill then welded in place (1" bar), I assume by doing this I am not loosing any rigidity (minimal) my tests confirm this. This allows all of the chips and coolant to exit under the mill, i was originally going to have a chip bin simalar to the lathe but am rethinking this (think GDmarsh), the feet on the base are more for peace of mind, my vice weigh in at just under 90lbs an i normally keep my 4th axit bolted up as well, i figured if i ever got a good size part way out on the X+ the center of gravity hight and the wheels on the bottom may allow her to topple. I will have adjustable feet on the tips for leveling the machine also.

hope this makes sense.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Dan13 on April 14, 2012, 06:25:23 AM
I like your chip bin solution on the lathe and I have considered it for my 9x20 lathe, but I was afraid of losing rigidity so will have to manually remove the chip each time :(

Dan
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jonny quest on April 14, 2012, 01:45:58 PM
Are you putting on sliding doors?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: gd.marsh on April 17, 2012, 02:01:07 AM
Wow,

I'm humbled to read that I've been an inspiration to others with my 'over-the-top' mill conversion! 
I'm just a guy who can't leave things alone once I get started tinkering with them.
Anyway, very nice looking work on the lathe & I really like your take on the chip pan for the mill ..
I've discovered that once wet, chips do tend to stick so I've plumbed a wash down hose to clean up after I finish a job.
Your chip pan would be absolutely PERFECT for that kind of application .. keep up the good work!

gd.marsh
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Wallerawang on April 17, 2012, 02:22:25 AM
Hi GD.
Please post a link to your project on the zone - it sounds like it would be a good read- I have done a search but the place is so big and hard to find articles on.
Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: gd.marsh on April 17, 2012, 02:27:00 AM
OK, here you go!

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/101638-bolton_zx45_conversion.html
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 23, 2012, 06:12:00 PM
I got a bit more done on my mill

(http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o482/jrslick22/2012-04-21220948.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jonny quest on April 24, 2012, 02:35:35 AM
I just finished mine.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/williamsmotowerx/utf-8BSU1BRzAyMDQuanBn.jpg)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 24, 2012, 03:58:29 AM
Man Stainless is flash bro, my sheet metal skills are not good enough for SS, i need paint to hide all my cock ups.
Is the hole in the middle for servicing or chips?
Im about 1/2 way done with my chip auger, i don't know if it will work but im going to try it all the same

Looking good dude.

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 24, 2012, 04:03:03 AM
Oh btw in case your wondering, the 4th was being key'd when the Y axis broke, hence the big vice, 4th and missing Y axis, shes all back together now. There is also a cameo appearance by the lathe in the bottom right corner of the image.

thanks for looking
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jonny quest on April 24, 2012, 04:10:42 AM
hole is for chips/coolant. removeable tray will be underneath.

It's 5053 aluminum. SS welds like crap... I like aluminum way better. corrosion resistant, plus reflects light for easy viewing.

I should have it installed in a few days. I'll post some finished pics. I still have to design some type of window for the front, maybe sides.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 24, 2012, 04:37:54 AM
Cool, hold off on the chip bin until ive tested my auger, its been cheap to make and i think it will work really well, ill post a pic in a day or so to give you an idea of what im up to.
Ive got a bunch of SS to mill so i need my coolant system up and running, once ive done that ill be looking to redo my ball screws and mounting, then ill be looking to finish the power draw bar i have started and then a tormach ATC, if i get sick of it at any stage ill switch back to the lathe.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on May 05, 2012, 01:43:08 AM
Wow,

I'm humbled to read that I've been an inspiration to others with my 'over-the-top' mill conversion! 
I'm just a guy who can't leave things alone once I get started tinkering with them.
Anyway, very nice looking work on the lathe & I really like your take on the chip pan for the mill ..
I've discovered that once wet, chips do tend to stick so I've plumbed a wash down hose to clean up after I finish a job.
Your chip pan would be absolutely PERFECT for that kind of application .. keep up the good work!

gd.marsh

Yeah dude your machine build really lit a fire in me to get my machine finished, jhchoppers the same, what set all of this off was your belt drive conversion, so easy to do!
My machine used to max out at 1200rpm now I get about 7500rpm and she loves Ali.
I have also followed suit with your auger idea, I have it all bolted up just need to mount the motor and try it, I sure hope it works.
So yeah thaks GD, your machine is awesome!
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: kooka on November 10, 2012, 11:56:10 PM
gday jrslick,  really enjoyed and been inspired by reading your builds especially as i have the same lathe already fitted with vsd and about to tackle cnc conversion. very interested to know how your builds/machines are going?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 11, 2012, 03:15:27 PM
The machine has been in bits waiting for paint for months and months, i have been doing little bits and pieces as i have had the time but nothing significant.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on November 11, 2012, 03:22:40 PM
Quote
My machine used to max out at 1200rpm now I get about 7500rpm and she loves Ali.
Wonder what RPM the bearings are rated for?

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on November 11, 2012, 03:44:34 PM
Ive replaced em already see the G.D.Marsh thread
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: A.Davis on June 25, 2013, 12:02:09 AM
I got my steppers from http://www.homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=25 i used the 269 for the X and the 287 for the Z with 1:1 timing pulleys, it does 3.5mps on rapids (speed was important)


Hope this helps

just a quick question , I too am looking at a pulley set up for a mill I am building, my question is your pulley ratio is quoted at 1:1 whats the advantage? (other than space)

Thanks
Adrian
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on July 02, 2013, 05:54:15 PM
It allows you to offset the motor for clearance, if possible i prefer the direct couple option.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 04, 2015, 02:56:24 AM
The server i kept all of my images on has been moved/shutdown, I have uploaded them all to photobucket instead, does anyone know how I can edit the posts with the new image addresses?

cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on April 04, 2015, 03:25:13 AM
Can't be done after this sort of delay. Contact the mods instead.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on April 04, 2015, 03:47:26 AM
The server i kept all of my images on has been moved/shutdown, I have uploaded them all to photobucket instead, does anyone know how I can edit the posts with the new image addresses?

cheers

Hi JR,

If you do all the hard work of detailing which post and which image address and the order of those new images I will drop them in for you.  ;)

(you could PM or e-mail me with the details).

Tweakie.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 04, 2015, 03:56:58 AM
The file names will be the same just not the location, I was just going to match up file name for file name with the new location.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on April 04, 2015, 04:33:27 AM
The file names will be the same just not the location, I was just going to match up file name for file name with the new location.


If you are going to keep exactly the same file names then that makes it a lot easier.

The first image in this thread is currently defined as being   http://www.skynetnz.com/blog/lathe/al54b.jpeg

How do you want the address for this image to read??

(presumably I can then modify all the following images in the same manner)

Tweakie.


Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 04, 2015, 08:29:08 PM
Nah I don't think this is going to work, some of the files have modified names others don't.

Is there someway I can get temporary access to try and match them up, it will take a long time but for the sake of the blog I think it is worth the effort.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on April 05, 2015, 01:43:26 AM
Looks like you are back to my original suggestion  :'(

Tweakie.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 11, 2015, 06:14:01 AM
Might just chuck it back in the to hard basket for now then.

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 22, 2015, 06:25:58 PM
Need help please.

I have been mucking around trying to get this thing to thread, I have a C3 for my pulse and the bob is a C32 as stated, the C3 shows the pulses via LED (looks good) the C32 shows the same pulses on the input pin (looks good also), the True spindle reading looks good.
I am using "use spindle feedback in sync mode".
Within the plugin (smoothstepper) monitoring the input is only coming up active every now and then, it certainly is not pulsing the way the input indicator on the C32 is.
when the tool hits the stock there is an immediate decrees in True RPM as you would expect.

Threads are all over the show, ideas?
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on April 22, 2015, 06:50:34 PM
First of all, threading IS possible. I do lots of it.

Yes, you need "use spindle feedback in sync mode". I also use 'spindle averaging', although I am not sure whether that is needed or not.

At one stage, after rebuilding the entire electronics, i found I could not thread any more. That was a puzzle. Eventually I found that the software filter inside Mach was set far too long, so the sync pulses were being filtered out. I killed the filter down to zero and all was well.

To explain: with a typical encoder on the spindle motor the Index pulse is very narrow, and easy to lose. If you make your own Index pulse using an optical interruptor and a small disk with a slot, you can make the slot much wider.

At another stage I found that the Index pulse line was being loaded too much and the pulse was dropping in amplitude. That meant the ESS did not register it all the time. Fixing that might require a bit of electronics and a CRO.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 22, 2015, 07:23:46 PM
Where is said software filter found?

thx

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 22, 2015, 08:17:06 PM
After mucking around with it some more, I can here the z axis steppers adjusting its feed rate based on I assume spindle speed.
I cut a 2mm pitch thread repeatedly and it follows the thread perfectly even with cycle (and spindle) stopping and starting - so this tells me that it as at least partially working (or it wouldn't start at the same place each stop start).

I put a thread gauge on it and it is almost a perfect .9mm pitch thread.
There was no G20 generated by the wizard but just in case I have manually put a G21 in the code, run it again follows the previously cut path perfectly.
I have enabled pulse averaging and I believe it has helped.

I originally worked out my spindle speeds etc with an el-chepo laser tacho, when I put the C3 on the Spindle true readings were way off so I assumed the el-chepo was wrong and corrected my pulley ratios to refect the S true.

I'm starting to wonder if that is why my thread pitch is off?

thx
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on April 22, 2015, 08:26:47 PM
In Config /Ports&Pins you will need to use the settings in Spindle / motor control and special functions. I think you have dealt with these already.

In General Config at top right hand corner you have Input Signal debouncing. For Index Debounce you may need a value of 0. I do.

Under Pulleys you need to set the RIGHT ratio, and you need to calibrate the Z axis (lathe) correctly as well.

OK, you seem to be threading OK; you just need to get the pitch right.

Um - just checking: you have only ONE index pulse per rev, yes?

Cheers
Roger

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 23, 2015, 01:02:35 AM
In Config /Ports&Pins you will need to use the settings in Spindle / motor control and special functions. I think you have dealt with these already.

Done

In General Config at top right hand corner you have Input Signal debouncing. For Index Debounce you may need a value of 0. I do.

Done (default is 0)

Under Pulleys you need to set the RIGHT ratio, and you need to calibrate the Z axis (lathe) correctly as well.

Done

OK, you seem to be threading OK; you just need to get the pitch right.

Correct

Um - just checking: you have only ONE index pulse per rev, yes?

Correct

Cheers
Roger


Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on April 23, 2015, 02:34:05 AM
Hum ....
What feed and speed are you using?

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 23, 2015, 04:41:22 AM
200-400 rpm .2 per pass, threads look good, the pitch is wrong
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on April 23, 2015, 06:41:32 PM
> 200-400 rpm .2 per pass, threads look good, the pitch is wrong
Steel, brass, aluminium?

Belabouring the obvious, but perhaps you could run a quick check over the Z feed calibration and the RPM once more. There has got to be an error somewhere, as I routinely thread accurately with Mach3 myself.

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 23, 2015, 09:23:08 PM
Ali 20mm stock 1.5mm pitch been playing with 2mm as well.

Z axis is accurate, am thinking about how to check the RPM still, ideas are welcome
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on April 24, 2015, 01:24:57 AM
I have noticed on my machine that even with my best efforts, commanded RPM and actual RPM, as displayed by Mach, are not always exactly the same... The (Mach) displayed speed should be fairly accurate.

I did eventually use the Mach spindle linearisation routine in one of the menus to improve that.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 25, 2015, 02:25:48 AM
I just cut the best 1.75mm tread I have ever cut in my life! I rand the same Gcode over and over again, after the first run I never saw chips again, it is perfect.
Same problem, had to set the pitch to 4mm to get the 1.75mm thread.

Can anyone tell me:
1. are you using the default mach3 wizard?
2. are you using imperial or metric as your default setting?
3. are you able to cut metric threads with the wizard?

I'm off to the Marshal Islands for a couple of weeks so wont be able to test anything but would appreciate the help all the same.

cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on April 25, 2015, 02:27:26 AM
I have noticed on my machine that even with my best efforts, commanded RPM and actual RPM, as displayed by Mach, are not always exactly the same... The (Mach) displayed speed should be fairly accurate.

I did eventually use the Mach spindle linearisation routine in one of the menus to improve that.

Cheers
Roger


I don't think this matters so much, from what Ive read mach will adjust the Z feed based on what it is picking up from the spindle true pulses anyhow.

Cheers
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on April 25, 2015, 02:34:25 AM
Quote
I don't think this matters so much, from what Ive read mach will adjust the Z feed based on what it is picking up from the spindle true pulses anyhow.
True, quite true.
I just wanted my machine to be a bit more 'linear'.

> 1. are you using the default mach3 wizard?
I have used the wizard; the rest of the time I hand code. Both work for me.

2. are you using imperial or metric as your default setting?
METRIC

3. are you able to cut metric threads with the wizard?
Yes.
In general I don't use imperial at all.

A ratio of 4:1.75 (or 16:7) is really wierd!

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on May 10, 2015, 05:39:44 PM
baring figuring out what thread pitch to put in with a ratio to cut it right I am officially out of ideas.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on May 10, 2015, 06:15:22 PM
OK, so you have threading working in principle. Good.
Now to get the pitch right. This can be done.

I will assume you have have checked the calibration on your Z axis, so we will ignore that.
In that case, your chuck RPM is WRONG. It just has to be.

Possibility:
First of all, I am guessing that the index pluses are coming from the motor, not the chuck. If this is correct, and the pulley ratio is not 1:1, then the pulley ration in Mach could be actually the reverse of what it should be. Any joy here?

If the index pulses are coming from the chuck itself ... blimey. I dunno!

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on May 10, 2015, 10:33:28 PM
Yep Z axis is good, but will double check it as not to look like an ass later.

Index pulses is mounted on spindle NOT motor - Sorry.
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on May 10, 2015, 11:03:14 PM
> Index pulses is mounted on spindle NOT motor - Sorry.
Mind-boggling.

And the pulley ratio in Mach is set to 1:1? Just checking.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: BR549 on May 10, 2015, 11:04:44 PM
IF Z is accurate that ONLY leaves the RPM to be wrong. You said you checked it with a tach and the 2 were not together on rpm ? I would suspect the index signal card is bad. Could be missing signals OR getting noise.

Pulley RATIO should be at 1:1

NO debounce on the signal. If it needs the debounce then FIX the noise problem with a cap

Try setting the RPM with the Hand tach then cut a thread.

(;-) TP
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on May 10, 2015, 11:33:44 PM
If it was noise then I would have expected it to cut a different thread each time, I am able to shut the machine down rerun the code and have it perfectly ghost cut the original thread, I wouldnt have thought noise would have allowed this to happen.

As stated already, the LED on the C3 board is pulsing with each rotation, the LED on the input pin of the C32 is also pulsing, based on these two indicators I am not seeing any false triggers or intermittent pulsing, HOWEVER on the diagnostics screen of SS I am not seeing consistent pulsing of the input.

Can someone confirm that on there SS diagnostics screen they are seeing consistent pulsing? perhaps debouncing?

thx
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on May 11, 2015, 12:13:56 AM
Mine all works fine, although I did have problems when the SW debounce was switched on after a rebuild. At high speed (rpm) the pulses were too short to go through the SW filter in a consistent manner.

There has GOT to be an explanation somewhere!

Um - what happens when you try to cut a 1.0 mm pitch? Or a 2.0 mm pitch?

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: BR549 on May 11, 2015, 09:53:23 AM
I would simply turn OFF the use rpm for speed setting and do everything manually. Check the RPM with the Tach and set the program to run at that speed. THEN check the cut  thread pitch.

I would not trust the blinky led for anything important other than the switch comes on and off. At speed you will never see all the blinks.  Also your on period for the  signal may be too short and it misses signals at speed. The USE of debounce only makes this worse. IF your signal was clean you should never have to use debounce.


There are only 2 things that effect the outcome of your threads  Z axis moving the correct amount and true spindle rpm. Double check the Z calibration of steps per. Double check the calibration of your spindle RPM.

AND don't ASSUME anything.

Just some thoughts , (;-) TP

Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on May 11, 2015, 06:08:21 PM
Hi Terry

I don't think Mach3 can use the RPM to control the speed when interfaced through a Smooth Stepper?

Otherwise, +1

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: BR549 on May 12, 2015, 09:42:10 PM
SS ?? AUURRG I did not see that Sorry.

But to be sure have you tried it ??  I do  know that mach3 LPT if you do not use Spindle sync it will assume the speed that you programmed it for and base the feedrate on that value.

At least it USED TOO long ago on a planet far far away (;-) ,

OK another thought, when you program an S speed and you check it with the TACH is it the same RPM +/- a few ??



 (;-) TP
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on May 12, 2015, 11:19:49 PM
Hi Terry

Yes, I tried to use Mach to servo the spindle speed. That didn't work, and one of the other gurus explained that the SS update rate is too variable to allow it to be done - so it isn't. I think Greg may have it on his to-do list for 'someday', as a feature to go into the SS, but not so far.

However, it seems that Mach3 is able to sync the Z axis with the spindle index pulse if it does do some averaging. There is a noticeable pause at the start of every cutting cycle when threading. But the threads it makes are good.

On the other hand, if you use spindle speed averaging, then the displayed RPM is very usable. So I went through the spindle speed calibration cycle (which is quite slow) and told Mach eventually to use the calibration curve for linearisation. That was quite successful - with averaging.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: jrslick22 on May 14, 2015, 02:50:58 AM
SOLVED!

but I have a good excuse! the section on spindle pulley ratios was missing from my manual.
I though that you had to tell mach what the pulley ratio was between your spindle motor and your spindle in my case for pulley1 2.3,during the process of follow the suggestions and cutting threads I realized that both Rodger and T.P had stated that this should be 1, wham fixed.

thanks for the help guys, sorry for being so thick with this one, :-)
Title: Re: AL54b (lathe) project from New Zealand
Post by: rcaffin on May 14, 2015, 05:22:43 AM
Another dead dragon!
Good.
Cheers
Roger