Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: BxBx on October 31, 2010, 02:03:44 AM

Title: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on October 31, 2010, 02:03:44 AM
I just tried to install latest version of Mach 3 on my WinXP SP2 computer.  When I run the installation with parallel port drivers, it crashes and reboots my system.  After the reboot the system finds new hardware ("New hardware class") a tries to install a driver for it but is unable to find it.  Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on October 31, 2010, 04:13:51 AM
You may have to try the optimisation steps detailed on the downloads page but to try and install the driver first just go to the Mach folder and double click on the drivertest.exe.

Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on October 31, 2010, 05:57:04 AM
You may have to try the optimisation steps detailed on the downloads page but to try and install the driver first just go to the Mach folder and double click on the drivertest.exe.

Hood

Thanks.  Running that drivertest.exe acts like an instant reboot.  I will try that optimization but giving it a brief look it seems like I may as well do another XP partition for nothing but Mach 3.  Pain in the ...
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on October 31, 2010, 06:03:36 AM
I know a lot of people use their computer for controlling a machine, doing their CAD/CAM on and even general day to day tasks but I am a firm believer that the computer that controls the machine should be doing that task and that task only.
Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on October 31, 2010, 08:28:55 AM
Hood, using a computer only for CNC machine control may be fine if that's what you're doing all day long.  I prefer to use my computer for whatever I need and I was hoping to add a CNC router to it the same as I would a printer.  Needing to remove all sort of other things to make it work, or do a separate OS partition just for CNC, I may as well do a Linux partition and run free EMC2 on it.
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on October 31, 2010, 08:42:07 AM
Yes, might be the way to go :)
Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on October 31, 2010, 09:36:44 AM
Oh and did you actually check to see if the driver got installed after clicking the drivertest.exe as the computer is set to reboot after the first ever install of the driver.
Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: RICH on October 31, 2010, 09:40:17 AM
BXBX,
My pc has other programs on it that i use other than Mach and all runs fine. The programs don't interfere with Mach, but, I know that from using similar setups over time. There is no anti virus on the pc and never goes out to the internet etc. So it is restricted in manny ways.


These days the computer is not the major cost factor in cnc.........my opinion. A dedicated PC is recommended by most CNC doctors.

Like going to a doctor, you get a script for the illness ,but, if the medicine is not taken properly,chances are  your not going to get well.
Then again if you don't like the doctors advice, you always have option to use another one.......

Just an opinion as I don't have a license to practice....... ;)
RICH
 
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on October 31, 2010, 10:17:07 AM
Hood,
It appears to be installed, but not configured correctly.  When it reboots its looking for a driver called Mach3.sys, but after it finds it (I manually provide path to it) it instantly reboots and this goes around.  Device Manager says that driver for "Mach  X Pulsing Engines" was installed but not configured correctly.

BxBx
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on October 31, 2010, 11:23:40 AM
Three things I would try, in the following order.
First is run the Driver test again, if that doesnt help then second is run the specialdriver.bat and see if that works, if not run the originaldriver.bat to reinstall the normal driver.
Lastly is re-install Mach over the top of its self to see if that cures it.
Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on October 31, 2010, 09:59:11 PM
Hood,
I tried your suggestions.  They all produce the same result (reboot) except with a twist that the special driver gives me also the blue "your system has been shut down to prevent it from blowing up" screen.  It appears Mach3.sys has some code in it causing this and as the source is not available I think I'm finished tinkering with it.  Next I'll try that Linux/EMC2 option to at least rule out a MB problem. ;)
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: TramAlot on October 31, 2010, 11:00:19 PM
do a clean xp install, I've built, converted 10 this year and in the end it's allways been either a corupted os or a bad dimm modual and 1 bad power supply. emc is good but not very easy to use.

my personal machine has 3 cad programs and 3 cam and tripple boots to linux, win7 32 and 64. i run desk cnc, emc, mach3,outlook,acrobat........

If you have had a bunch of crap on the computer clean the registry....

if you upgrade get win 7 pro or ult, u will love it


much luk,
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on November 01, 2010, 01:00:33 AM
Thanks for the suggestion, Tram.

I've just looked at the EMC specs and it appears EMC is not going to work on my MB (ASUS P5G41M-LE [http://commercial.asus.com/product/detail/18 (http://commercial.asus.com/product/detail/18)]) due to onboard video sharing the CPU memory (I think).  Can it be the problem also with Mach3?

Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on November 01, 2010, 03:26:36 AM
On board video can cause problems with the driver, usually its just interferes with the pulsing, I have never heard of it not installing the driver due to onboard graphics.

Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on November 01, 2010, 06:16:27 AM
Thanks for the comment, Hood.  If timing is the only issue, I think a Quad 2.66GHz system should be sufficient to generate three 25kHz pulse streams.  Your comment made me try that EMC after all and I have to say I was impressed.
 
The standard download version let me run the Ubuntu/EMC2 from the CD without actually installing it.  Not that I knew much what I was looking at, but nothing crashed and when I was running something called "latency test" it was showing some numbers that seemed reasonable.  Plus UMC is apparently not meant to run as a standalone app.  The latency test actually prompts you to "abuse" the system to see impact of, say watching a movie, on it.

Comming back to XP was like being hit with ugly reality again.  Right after the boot up I was prompet to install that Mach3.sys driver again, which surprised me because I run the Mach 3 uninstall utility before shutting down.  That seems to have worked not too well too.  It's been many years since I tried Linux and at that time it couldn't compare with XP, but things have definitely changed by now and I very much like what I saw.

In any case, to get to the topic, looking at parallel port setup in my BIOS, it has 4 mode options: Normal, Bi-directional, EPP and ECP, the last one being the default.  Could this have anything to do with my problem?
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on November 01, 2010, 08:01:55 PM
You will want EPP but that will not affect the driver loading, so is not your problem. I suspect it is something on your computer that is causing problems and stopping Mach installing correctly. Probably best for you to stick to EMC if you are not wanting to try a fresh install of XP.

Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on November 07, 2010, 02:11:00 AM
Well, I tried to put Mach 3 on another partition on my PC with the "latest-greatest" version of XP - the same thing happens.  The port driver installation is crashing it.  This Mach 3 thing just doesn't like my PC, and as it is a fairly new and powerfull (1 year Core 2 Quad) I wonder, if I buy another, will it like that?
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: TOTALLYRC on November 07, 2010, 03:27:54 AM
The funny thing is that Mach3 has run on every computer that I have installed it on but they are all 5-10 year old trash pile rejects that barely meet the minimum specs.
I have also run it on several newer computers with the same results.

It may very well be something specific to the Quad core setup that you are using.

I am no Doctor but I do play one on the Internet and I also recommend a separate non-Internet connected computer for the machine.

If some stray virus or other unknown thing comes in and ruins that 4 hr sculpture that you are making on your router you really didn't save anything at all.

At last count I have given away 6 computers(cleaned out a closing computer store) that run Mach3 to friends just to get some space back in the shop.

Mike
Title: Re: Installation crashing my computer
Post by: BxBx on November 07, 2010, 09:30:35 PM
Mike - you say Mach 3 should run on "trash pile rejects"?  Hmmm...  I guess more powerful is not better, then.
The way I look at it I have 3 options (if I want to use Mach 3):
1 - Buy another PC  (but even a trash pile reject with a monitor is going to cost me several hundred $$$ and some realestate); 
2 - Buy the $155 SmoothStepper (probably lower cost and better performance); and
3 - Use TMS320F28335 docking station (a $99 TI kit I bought for another project, http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/tmdsdock28335.html (http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/tmdsdock28335.html)) as the pulsing generator.  That thing can do all that SmoothStepper can, but how do I get position commands from Mach3 over USB or serial port?  (Subject for another topic, or should I just look it up somehere?).  If I do the last I probably won't get my router running this week (month?)
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: TOTALLYRC on November 08, 2010, 01:06:16 AM
These work well running Mach thru the pport.

http://cgi.ebay.com/DELL-DIMENSION-2400-PENTIUM-4-2-80GHZ-512MB-RAM-40-GB-H-/140474508405?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item20b4eee475 (http://cgi.ebay.com/DELL-DIMENSION-2400-PENTIUM-4-2-80GHZ-512MB-RAM-40-GB-H-/140474508405?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item20b4eee475)

Try a KVM switch if you want to save some realestate.

I had a great reply  all typed out and then my computer locked up and I lost it.
Imagine if this computer was running Mach3 in the middle of a 2hr job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Mike
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on November 08, 2010, 02:55:21 AM
Mike - point well taken, although I don't remember this computer ever locking on me like that (except crashing on Mach 3 install, of course  :))
I appreciate the link too, but as I'm in Thailand it's not much good for me.  Computers are a little more expensive here, but the other perks make up for that  ;))
But that switch idea is a good one.  Actually, my monitor has two ports (I use DVI now, VGA is open) so maybe I won't even need a switch (have to consult the manual).
In any case, if I can get some input on how to get those positioning commands from USB/serial port, I'm still contemplating that.
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on November 08, 2010, 03:00:57 AM
You would need to write a plugin.
Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on November 08, 2010, 06:23:07 AM
Thanks Hood. 
That’s a bummer.  I wouldn’t mind putting time into writing pulsing code for the TI chip, but I don’t have time to be writing code for positioning commands from Mach 3.  There isn’t any standard one (e.g. for servos) except that LPT steps generator (which obviously doesn’t work on all PCs)?
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on November 08, 2010, 08:01:35 AM
Each motion controller has its own plugin, example SS, DSPMC, Galil, K-Flop and Ajax all have plugins  but all are specific to each piece of hardware and have been written as such. So if you dont want to go with one of them and dont want to go with the PP then its write your own plugin for the hardware you wish to use.
Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on November 08, 2010, 11:17:27 AM
Yes, Hood.  They all have their own plugin because no one has disclosed his (well, G100 did a not so good one a few years back, which as I understand was then improved by SS).  I can understand that guys wanting to sell >$1000 HW don't want to make a plugin that could be used also by someone else.  But there are many <$10 MCUs that can be programmed for the pulsing task and if someone would make a standard positioning output plugin, guys that know how to do the code for a particular MCU would not have to worry also about messing with Mach3.  Although I would be willing to do the code for TMS320F28335 (as I can use it for other things later), I can make no money of selling $99 TI HW and no incentive in putting time into Mach3 plugin.
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on November 08, 2010, 11:33:26 AM
There is a Mach SDK for plugins, but not being a programmer I dont have a clue how easy it is, suspect its not just a simple matter of writing a few lines though  ;)
Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on November 08, 2010, 07:54:18 PM
Yes, I saw it.  For me it would definitely involve some learning curve I don't have time to get on.  The TI chip is a different matter.   ArtSoft should have done it a long ago (in my view), or someone interested in making $20 of selling such standard output plugin might be interested.
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: bs on November 18, 2010, 10:36:38 PM
Hi Hood ,and BXBX

It seem to be a problem in thailand , I 've tried using mach 3 under windows xp 1..3 and get the exact problems  further more I noticed that wind xp does not give any signals to the parrarlle port. I 'm running for 4years now with win2000 and win 2003 and it works instandly but can't get any movement under xp.
The divice manager gives a fault at mach pulsing engine , would nice to finally get it working with Xp. The computer is used with other programs ,no problems
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on November 19, 2010, 02:24:36 AM
Try setting your regional settings to UK or USA or some other western country.

Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: bs on November 19, 2010, 07:52:50 AM
Hi Hood
tried that already , doesn't change anything.
Any system under win 2000 or 2003 works fine ,it must be the configuration of win xp any computer I tried in past with xp doesn't communicate .
As I don't have installation disks of xp , I can't do the proper optimisation for xp ( uploading wth F5 I believe )
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on November 19, 2010, 07:57:38 AM
Did you also try setting all language and keyboard settings to UK or USA?
Reason I ask is I can remember Art mentioning there was something with Asian language/region settings in XP that would interfere with Mach, but maybe that is not what you are seeing.

Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: bs on November 19, 2010, 08:04:17 AM
Thanks for the response Hood
I will try again and reload mach 3 . I 'll let you know how that works
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: Hood on November 19, 2010, 08:06:26 AM
Hopefully it will work.
Hood
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on November 22, 2010, 10:08:02 PM
Bs, thanks for the info.
I gave up on it.  EMC2 works like a charm and this Mach3 was for me just waste of time.
Title: Re: Installation craching my computer
Post by: BxBx on November 22, 2010, 10:17:33 PM
Oh, by the way, I tried it also on my laptop that also has Thai XP on it.  (From the same CD I used for second XP partition on my Quad).  It didn't crash that, but the timings were rather bad.