Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Mike E on October 21, 2010, 01:04:20 PM
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I am not a Computer minded person so don't flame me to bad. I know a the specs call for a 32 bit operating system, but will Mach run under windows 7 Pro 64 bit in XP mode? ??? I can save a couple of hundred bucks going that route by not having to buy a new complete retail box of 32 bit, and then paying someone to make it a dual boot box.
Thanks Much
Mike
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64 bit OS is fine if you are using external pulsing devices such as SmoothStepper, DSPMC, Galil etc but the Parallel Port driver will not run under 64 bit OS so you cant use the Parallel Port.
Hood
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64 bit OS is fine if you are using external pulsing devices such as SmoothStepper, DSPMC, Galil etc but the Parallel Port driver will not run under 64 bit OS so you cant use the Parallel Port.
Hood
Oh Well
Back to 32 bit I go. >:(
Thanks
Mike
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Sorry guys, I'm new in this forum.
Could you guys clarify a bit more why i can't run Mach3 on XP64 bit?
I just bought a PCI Parallel port which works on XP64. Is the limitation made by the Mach3 software or by the Parallel port itself.
If I can manage to have a parallel port up and running on my XP64, will mach3 work?
Thanks
Demenicis
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The parallel port driver for Mach, in other words the pulsing engine for the parallel port, will only work with a 32bit OS.
If you use one of the external pulsing controllers then you can use a 64Bit OS as Mach itself will run fine on the 64bit OS and you will not be needing the driver (pulsing engine) as you wont be using the parallel port.
Hood
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Thanks Hood for your quick repply.
I'm not sure if i got it right.
1- lets assume that my PCI parallel cards work fine on XP64 - problem 1 solved
2- Mach3 runs fine on XP64 as a software only, problem 2 solved
3- Mach3 cannot send pulse to a working Parallel Port due to its achitecture. I should then give up of 64 bit since it is cheaper to buy another computer than an external motion controller (I may be wrong).
Sumarily, this is an Mach3 issue/limitation.
Pls correct me if I'm wrong.
best regards
Demenicis
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More or less correct, but another two options, first a 32 bit OS will likely be cheaper than a new computer and second the SmoothStepper that I use on all my machines may also be cheaper, it is about $150 if I recall.
Hood
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A 32-Bit Version of Win7 OR XP is very much so cheaper then a new PC, (150-300$) Or as Hood said, if you already have spent the money on the 64-bit OS then you would be best off purchasing a External Motion controller(IE: Smooth Stepper)
It is of course, Entirely up to you :)
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OEM copies of 32bit Windows 7 are about $100. Check www.newegg.com
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Thanks a lot for you guys clarification.
As you would have noticed, my english is a bit crap.
When I said a "NEW" computer I meant to say "another second hand and chepo old one"
But anyway, I think our point of view is more or less the same and I will now (at least) give up of this 64 bit idea and do the job I have to do so I can test my DIY machine I've made in my garage.
There is a picture for you guys so I can intruduce my work a bit better.
Best Regards to all of you and thanks again for the advices.
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Looks to be quite an unusual design, is the cross axis supported in any way?
Hood
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Hi, Thanks for the interest,
there is a zoomed (on the picture) view of the cross block which holds the "Y" axis in place. It is actually holding it really well, nearly rigid, and I hope I'll be able to machine aluminium on it (not steel though, it would take ages milling 0,1mm at time).
I based this design on that little "toy" unimat 1, which has more or less some "plastic" blocks with same dimensions (50x50) and if you are VERY careful you can machine something. Then I thought if the parts were made out of solid aluminium I would have a much better rigidity and stability, lets see......I'm very close to do the first experiments......
I also based my design on my reall micro milling machine (axmister SIEG X1) where the Y axis is centered therfore it never takes any "cantilever" loads since the milling head is always on its center.
Some quick static calculations (on SolidWorks/cosmos 3D) gave me about 18kgf to deform 0.3 the Y axis (on its extreme), and 22kgf to bend the vertical colum about 0.3mm (if that was welded though).
Those preliminary calculations gave confidence enough that is is going to work with reasonable precision. This is also a prototype, and some improvements are already written down to be implemented on the next model....
I could be talking about what I did to eliminate the backlash on the screws (cheap threaded bar) and motor coupling.....but this post is already too big. Feel free to ask anything if you want.
Changing the subject a bit, could anyone give me a link of an external motion controller (smothstepper or similar) that is the cheapest the money can buy and which still works well.
As we agreed yesterday, the 64bit parallel port DOESN'T work with mach3. I'm sorry but I had to fell in my skin the "no driver sensed" message, I had all the system ready to go so I didn't spend more than 1 hour anyway. Thats all part of my slow "learning path" and I had to experice it myself......(bloody stubborn I was, LOL)
Regards
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The pics let me see how it works now, thanks. Looks like it should work well for the intended purpose.
SmoothStepper is the cheapest at approx $150 and you can get it direct from Greg at www.warp9td.com or a few other places that sell them, www.soigeneris.com/default.aspx www.homanndesigns.com, www.cnc4pc.com etc
Hood
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Hi thanks again for the repply,
I think I have a final question.
which are and in which order should I put my hardware together?
1- computer USB port -> smothstepper -> (through parallel port) -> rubish chinese stepmotor controller -> step motors
2- computer USB port -> smothstepper -> (through parallel port?) -> breakout board -> step motors
3- computer USB port -> smothstepper -> step motors
I went to the first link you sent me and they mention the break out board but they don't sell it, am I wrong?
Regards,
Demenicis
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You go from computers USB socket to SmoothStepper then I personally would use a breakout board then to your stepper drives then finally motors. A breakout is not essential but adds ease of connection and usually an element of safety.
The first link is the guy that designed and makes the SmoothStepper and that is all he sells, the other links stock the SS and sell other components as well.
Hood
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Thank one more time,
I think now I know everything I need so I shouldn't bother you again with such basic questions.
I will let you know once I'm succeful (hopefuly)
Best regards and happy new year!
Demenicis
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Dont worry about the basic questions, I like them, they are easy to answer ;D
Hood
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Hi,
finaly done.
I installed win XP32 bit in another partition on the same hard drive where my C drive was.
Now I have both XPs (32 and 64 bit).
No mistery at all. Mach3 installed fine and the "no driver sensed" message never came. It said "driver installed succefully"!!!
Now I got the hang of it and the steps I found out myself are:
1-After restarting the computer straight after mach3 installation, I plugged the parallel cable into the stepmotors control board (TB6560 4 axis 3A). But the power supply is still OFF.
2- now the power supply can be connected to feed power into the control board. I did that several times and I never "burnt" the control board (YET!!)
3- Run Mach 3
4- set the pins and ports according the the control board PDF instructions supplied together with the board.
5- for a stepmotor type NEMA 23/part code 51BYGH56-401B/2.8Amps/12.6KG.cm (a bit over designed just in case!), I'm using haf step. In "motor turning" (in mach3) then, I'm using 400ateps/turn, 500mm/min (just as a test, I think It would go even faster if I need), 11 for the acceleration.
There are some links for the videos of my first try.
basic movements through the keyboard arrows
http://www.4shared.com/video/r44YHEFH/XY_basics.html
machine doing a 40mm circle path with a pen attached (badly attached) representing the future milling head
http://www.4shared.com/video/118EIFQX/milling_circle_40mmdiam.html
Best regards
Demenicis
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Good to hear you are running, I am sure you will have lots of fun, nothing like putting a CNC machine together and watching it run :)
Hood
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Hi,
Because I bought a 4 axis controller, I'd like to install a step motor on the spindle, so now I'got two questions about that:
1- can I program 1 of my motors (lets say the "A" axis) to turn indefinitely, being the spindle?
2- can my system interpolate 3 axis at once so I can machine a thread/spiral, for example, where I need 3 axis synchronised (spindle, vertical "z", and the cutting tool "x"or "y"?
If the interpolation is fine, my idea is to use the milling machine as a vertical lathe where the work piece would be grabbed by the chuck and the cutting tool fixed on the xy table.
My system consists in one of those basic 4 axis TB6560, Mach3&LazyCam softwares. I don't know if either the control driver or the softwares would have any limitation to interpolate 3 axis at once.
Thanks for any info given,
Regards,
Demenicis
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A stepper motor would make a lousy spindle, the faster it spins the less torque it has. Besides that you can do threading with a regular old spindle motor. You just need to add an index sensor to it (one pulse per revolution). This will let Mach sync its movements to the spindle.
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Steppers are not ideal for a spindle motor as they loose torque the faster they spin but some do use them and get good results.
You could fit a stepper as an A Axis but you would need to programme the axis on each line of code to keep it in motion.
You could also have two profiles and have one of them with the regular spindle and the other for the stepper as the spindle. Then if wanting to use the stepper as the spindle start that profile, if wanting the normal motor then start that profile.
Having said that there is no need to actually use a stepper if you can have an index pulse on your regular spindle motor, that would allow you to do lathe style single point threading.
You can do thread milling with absolutely no feedback of the spindle as all that is required is Mach to move X Y and Z in a helical path so spindle doesnt need any sync at all.
Hood
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Hi demenicis
can I ask you what that device is you have attached to the game port of your breakout board?
I have the exact same board and was going to fit a joystic to it, but that looks interesting :)
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Hi Hood,
I didn't get that "...Mach to move X Y and Z in a helical path so spindle doesnt need any sync at all".
As far as I can figure out, the rotation of the work piece has to be controlled.
I also forgot to say that my motor (set to 500-600mm/min) gives me 600rpm and it still seems really powerfull (I can't stop the shaft holding it with my fingers). Therefore I was thinking about connecting it to the spindle with about 1:5 ratio which will give me a powerfull 3000rpm which is more than I can get from my real convetional milling machine.
When you mention the spiral it means that mach3 CAN interpolate 3 axis then. Is that right?
SNOUT, I got that hand control for about 26 pounds (45 dollares) which I think was a great waste of money. Initially I used it to test the control board and motors without connecting the system to any computer. But the max. speed is so low that I'd rather adapting a manual handle in case I need to positon the xy manually somewhere (I'got double shaft motors exactly for that reason).
Also, this hand control has a really dodge looking and I think It was the responsible for "Burnning" my first 3 axis control board (70 dollares more of waste!).
Now the seller disappered, and I can tell you this jostick will never get close to any CNC controllers I have since it is already in the "bin".
I think when you have your mach3 up and running, it is such a plesure to move the motors through the keybord arrows that I don't really think anyone needs a hand control (thats is my opinion now)
PS: does anyone know which keyboard keys I have to press to move the Z, A, B, C, etc (at least the Z please)?
Regards,
Demenicis
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cheers for that, I use Page-UP and Page-DOWN to jog my Z axis ATM
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Hi Hood,
I didn't get that "...Mach to move X Y and Z in a helical path so spindle doesnt need any sync at all".
As far as I can figure out, the rotation of the work piece has to be controlled.
I am meaning to do thread milling it is not required. Thread milling is where you go in circular motion whilst at the same time moving the Z axis down by the pitch of the thread. Normally the work is held in the vice or clamped to table and the thread milling cutter is in the spindle but suppose it could be done the other way.
I also forgot to say that my motor (set to 500-600mm/min) gives me 600rpm and it still seems really powerfull (I can't stop the shaft holding it with my fingers). Therefore I was thinking about connecting it to the spindle with about 1:5 ratio which will give me a powerfull 3000rpm which is more than I can get from my real convetional milling machine.
Problem with that is you will decrease the torque by 5 times.
When you mention the spiral it means that mach3 CAN interpolate 3 axis then. Is that right?
Yes Mach can sync up to 6 axis.
PS: does anyone know which keyboard keys I have to press to move the Z, A, B, C, etc (at least the Z please)?
Regards,
Demenicis
You can set them to what you want from Config menu then System Hotkeys, but be careful as the keys you choose may already be used by something else. Default for Z is pg Up, Pg Dn, dont think there is a default for A.
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You have given GREAT answers, thanks.
I'm also aware about the reduced torque....
Thanks a lot again.
Demenicis
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Hi,
That is a quick one now:
Can I make my stepmotor wires a bit longer welding other wires to the existing ones?
Do I have another way to do that like opening the motors and conneting whole new longer wires to it (I haven't ever opened a step motor so I don't want to take the risk before asking)
Thanks
Demenicis
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Soldering and insulating with heat shrink tube would likely be the best way.
Hood
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Thanks again mate,
Regards,
Demenicis