Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: mandolinkgn on October 31, 2006, 12:06:15 AM
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I just got a K2 3925 and got it all set up with Mach2 and working perfectly but now upgraded to Mach3 so I can use a tool height presetter and I cannot get the machine to move. I have tried to configure everything the same but I must be missing something. Can someone with a similiar K2 setup post some screen shots or what their settings are? I feel like a real dunce right now and know it's something simple.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Keith
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I have seen a few requests for K2 machine to work with Mach3.
I would ask K2 to configure their machine to Mach3 from now on. Mach2 is getting a little long in the tooth, and they should be distributing Mach3 instead.
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Have a read through this post, it should cover most of your settings
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=999.0
Hood
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I have a K239X25 if you need any help.
I've posted the set up file here: http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?board=7.0
I have the metric pertition ball screws, so you might need to tune your motor's if you don't have these.
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Hi Zealous,
I'm in the same position as Keith; just got a KG3925 and want to use Mach3.
Many thanks for posting the setup files - are these for the redesigned '06 version (with 3" tall x axis rails) or the older design?
By metric screws, do you mean you have the standard ABBA screws, but with the software setup to metric, or are they (physically) a different type?
EDIT:
As I'm not sure if Zealous' settings are for the '06 model, I've just downloaded (what I believe to be) the correct file for Mach 2 from K2's website (KG3925-06.xml). I then copied the settings to Mach 3 by swapping between the programs (I don't have Mach 2 on the PC attached to the machine).
With a bit of adjustment, Mach's diagnostics page shows the inputs for the home switches and e-stop to be working, so the basic connections must be right.
When I press the 'enable' button on the control box (the unit supplied by K2 with the motor controllers and power) the motors hum and make a clicking noise, but I'm unable to get them to move. Using Mach's jog control (TAB) I can get the X, Y and Z DROs to change, but the motors still don't do anything.
I've attached the Mach 3 config I'm using. Anyone got any suggestions, especially if I'm likely to be doing something dumb that would prevent Mach from actually trying to move the motors?
PS Putting my sensible hat on - of course, it would probably be best to install Mach 2 on the controller PC, use the K2 supplied config file and check that my newly delivered machine actually works. Is there any risk in overwriting any of the installed Mach 3 stuff?
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sploo,
Sorry about the delay,
No I have the later model the KG-3925 CNC Router Frame 39x25x5 '05 model with a physical precision metric ball screw, the step per are set to 10,160.
My motor are the DMG DAE HWA DC motor's with US Electronics encoders.
I'd first check in the "port & pins" to make sure your X Y Z signal's are enabled and are set correctly for Dir and setp (I've made this mistake before) and check your "motor tuning", because I have metric my steps are setup for 10,160.
I've gotten humming from having my Kernel speed set to 4500 and not having my motors tuned correctly.
Mach will leave all of your files untouched (besides the default Mach files like Mach3Mill.xml), you could try a number of diffrent setup files just give them diffrent names.
Which ver of Mach 3 are you using?
I'll try to think of other possabilities :)
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sploo,
Sorry about the delay,
Hi Zealous - you have nothing to apologise for; you've saved me a huge amount of trouble!
I eventually gave up on the config file I was working on (even after noticing I hadn't enabled the charge pump in the file I previously posted) and used the Mach 3 settings you put on this forum.
No I have the later model the KG-3925 CNC Router Frame 39x25x5 '05 model with a physical precision metric ball screw, the step per are set to 10,160.
That may explain some of the differences - I had to flip the home and estop inputs to active low.
However, I think I have the same motors, and I've left your motor settings untouched. I've not worked out the real linear speed yet, but all axes move pretty quickly, and sound very smooth.
I'm still running the demo version of Mach, though I can't think for a moment that I won't be buying a license. For that reason I can only use 25k kernel speed, but it seems to work fine.
I do need to have a play with the directions of the axes. At the moment I've got the 39" axis as X, and that runs +ve away from the home switch (to the right, from where I'm sitting).
The Z axis is currently -ve away from the home switch (down).
The Y axis is +ve away from the home switch (towards me, again from where I'm sitting).
At the moment, I haven't got the home and limits working, and if I run the circular pocket wizard (and get the machine to 'cut' a piece in mid air) it appears to be going the wrong way - e.g the toolpath moves clockwise, but the spindle is moving anticlockwise. Evidently I need to keep playing with the axis and motor reversal settings.
Mach will leave all of your files untouched (besides the default Mach files like Mach3Mill.xml), you could try a number of diffrent setup files just give them diffrent names.
I was - yours and mine, and I binned mine :-[
Which ver of Mach 3 are you using?
1.84.001 IRC.
BTW I spoke to Ron at K2 last night (literally, it was well after midnight UK time!). He was very helpful, but basically indicated that which axis is X (the 39" or 25") and which way you consider to be +ve on an axis is basically up to the person setting up the machine. In a way I was hoping to be told what to do ;)
He did mention a whole host of other useful stuff, including that, with a Porter-Cable 892, it should be possible to set the motors to do rapids at 300ipm.
I suspect I'll be back in the garage, tinkering again over the next few days. Plenty of ??? and :P, some of :-\ and hopefully loads of ;D
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sploo,
Since I cut guitars I use the Y axis as my 39" and the X 25".
The pin out on my control box is a little bit diffrent than the new KG but you should only have to change the "motor outputs" "Dir LowActive" and "Step LowActive" to change there directions.
Once in awhile I'll wonder why my machine isn't running smooth and come to find I forgot to have it in "Constant Velocity" mode.
If your Limit switch's go off for no reason change your "Deboucne Interval" to around 800+, or turn off "Watch Dog"
One thing that took me awhile to get the hang of was the "Softlimits" let me know if you have any trouble and I can post some advice about them.
The "Click" sound your getting is the encoder continually checking it's position, this is okay. I hadn't thought of it till it was completely quiet in my shop and there I heard it. You can fine tune your Gecko's but I don't believe it effects anything.
There is nothing better than Mach. Benny and others are designing some amazing screens and Art and Brain are continually adding more abilities and componets to Mach. It is the best program and is not just limited to controlling CNC machines.
I didn't like K2's vacuum system so I bought some plexy glass, screws(much simpler just to use aquarium glue) and a dryer vent.
Used my K2 to cut out a hole and $10 later I had a great vacuum system. It's not pretty but works great, I need to see the bit and easly change it.
(http://vileguitars.com/MachFlash/VaccumSystem v1.jpg)
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Just chatting,
Good job on the dust collector. Conveyor brush strip works well also. I only post this because it took me about two days to find it in McMaster carr. I didn't know the name of it. I second the positive emotions about Mach. It is crazy good.
Brett
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Brett
;D "Conveyor brush strip" ;D thats what I needed to know,Thanks Brett, I used "Pond" flooring rubber ;D
I notice in the picture there is a gap between the router and the Plexiglas,I usually have the Plexiglas box flush to the mount or if I drop it down I use the flooring rubber to keep suction.
I wish I could have found transparent rubber flaps, like restruant cooler have.
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Hey Zelalous,
McMaster carr has that too. Here is a link.
http://www.mcmaster.com/
They have it all. ;D
Brett
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Brett,
I think I'm going to be spending allot of money at McMaster carr ;D
Thanks for the mother load of mother loads, best link I've ever gotten :-*
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Your welcome Zealous,
Yes, I agree. McMaster Carr has a ton of stuff. If they don't have it I probably don't need it. ;D Except of course Mach this forum and those eyecandy screens. :o Another good source is MSC Industrial Supply.http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm
One of my friends made a collector cap for his router. It has a hinged door that swings out of the way for bit changes. He probably has DXF. files for the pieces. He used uhmw and conveyor brush strip. I'll try to get pics., prints, and files if you would like.
Brett
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sploo,
Since I cut guitars I use the Y axis as my 39" and the X 25".
Understood. I think that may be the default configuration, as it looks to be that way round on one of the Mach 2 files I downloaded from K2's website.
I had another play last night, and managed to get the machine moving consistently with the toolpath display (i.e. clockwise is clockwise!).
Once in awhile I'll wonder why my machine isn't running smooth and come to find I forgot to have it in "Constant Velocity" mode.
Yea, this was one of the things Ron mentioned when I spoke to him. I note that the circular pocket wizard in Mach 3 was putting a G64 at the beginning of the file (which is good).
If your Limit switch's go off for no reason change your "Deboucne Interval" to around 800+, or turn off "Watch Dog"
One thing that took me awhile to get the hang of was the "Softlimits" let me know if you have any trouble and I can post some advice about them.
Yea, to get the axes working as I wanted, I've been doing quite a bit of playing with the pins and home/limits settings, as it appears you can reverse a motor from two separate dialogs.
I've yet to be able to get the soft limits working, so any advice would be appreciated. That said, when I next get time I was planning to sit down and have a good read of those areas of the Mach 3 manual (I've been slowly working my way through it).
I didn't like K2's vacuum system so I bought some plexy glass, screws(much simpler just to use aquarium glue) and a dryer vent.
Used my K2 to cut out a hole and $10 later I had a great vacuum system. It's not pretty but works great, I need to see the bit and easly change it.
I ordered the K2 unit, but later read Bill Pentz's excellent site on dust extraction, and therefore I think I will need to make something bigger myself. However, that's a job for when I've finished plumbing in my ducting and extractor (yet another big job I'm doing at the moment).
The attached pic shows how I've currently set the axes up. I would prefer the home switches were all at the origin (Y is on the wrong side) but it's logical for me, and seems to be working. Just need to think about whether I want to re-set everything up as metric instead of imperial...
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Sploo,
could you post your XML file when you get everything up and running and keep this post updated with your experience for other KG users.
You probably have limit switchs but if you don't I found this useful:
"GET A NORMALLY CLOSED MOMENTARY SWITCH FROM MOUSER.com two major types of switches.
1. THROW
2. Momentary
ANY momentary switch that is like the ones behind the buttons on your DVD Player or radio. Push buttons. Will work.
Make sure the position is starting at normally closed though. Meaning the power is flowing through it until you hit the button and break the current. This is opposite of the way a normal momentary switch works..... Get a momentary wire it in and you are off and running"
So in Mach you want the switches on active low.
For the soft limits:
First I homed all of the axis’
I moved all the axis to there extremes and wrote down the DRO reading.
My set up is like this, now looking at it can’t remember why it was difficult to setup: ;D
Softmin Home Auto Zero
X -23.30 0.000 yes
Y -35.00 0,000 yes
Z -4.80 0.000 yes
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I appreciate the comments on the thread I started. I got my K2 3925 and am prestty satisfied with it when it was set up for Mach2 but under Mach3 I struggled. I needed the Mach3 because I had purchased the tool height setting attachment from them and they said I needed to upgrade to Mach3 to use it. It would have ben nice to have the correct .xml file so I could get it up and running.
One thing I noticed is that after I got it to run a program and move correctly that when I manually pressed a limit swithc it jogged the axis away from the switch. This was a problem as the macro they gave me to run for tool height setting was tied into one of the axis and when the plunger was depressed it jogged in linear and was a bad situation. When I turned on "emulation" on the X,Y and Z in "ports and Pins" this stopped. Now when I run the macro for tool setting which is the same as provided from Mach 3 it asks if I zeroed off the part and when saying yes it moves in the Z- direction but when the plunger is depress on the height setter nothing happens. I have gone to the diagonostics and can see the switch light up when depressing it so Im trying to figure whats up?
Anyway Im liking it but a bit frustrated right now. I will post a picture of the final set-up thats inside of a sound dedening box with dust collection, lights and a custom machine table with fixturing when Im done. What catagory do I post any pictures of it in?
Thanks, Keith
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Hi, Keith
"One thing I noticed is that after I got it to run a program and move correctly that when I manually pressed a limit switch it jogged the axis away from the switch."
If the axis moves the wrong way when Homing, Go to Conf., Home/Limit's check the the Home Neg for that Axis.
Haven't had time to read all your post's though.
Hope this Helps, Chip
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Sploo,
could you post your XML file when you get everything up and running and keep this post updated with your experience for other KG users.
Absolutely. I was planning on posting, but I want to do a bit more tweaking to be happy that I've got a pretty decent file for others to use. I'm hoping to get time to do this in the next few days.
You probably have limit switchs but if you don't I found this useful:...
Only home switches at the moment, but I think I'll probably be adding some extra switches at some point, as I really don't want to be banging into the unprotected ends of the axes. Nice idea with the momentary switches BTW.
We have some at the place I work, so would source them from our supplier (I'm in the UK, so all these useful US suppliers like McMaster-Carr aren't really practical).
First I homed all of the axis’
I moved all the axis to there extremes and wrote down the DRO reading...
Whilst I've not played with it in a few days, that's basically what I did, and ended up with a set of numbers that looks reasonably similar. Whenever I press the button in Mach to enable softlimits, it tells me my axes are out of range.
Would like to get it working, but it's not something I'm going to lose too much sleep over!
Keith - bit poor with a tool changer sharing the pins. I suppose there is the issue of not having many input pins on a parallel port. Let us know how it goes; I'm considering making my own tool height gauge so would like to hear more about your experiences, and also to see those photos.
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Looking at you're set up again, I believe your Softlimits should be in the positives+.
I have my machine set up in the far right corner and I'm going from zero out negatively.
This might be why your softlimits are being set off, also you could check your "Machine coors" as opposed to your offset to see if your over the limit.
WOW I'm confused because I notice there are two of you with the same machine asking diffrent questions in this same thread :o ???