Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach Screens => CVI MachStdMill (MSM) => Topic started by: Osker on September 19, 2010, 07:30:19 PM
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I have installed and configured MachStdMill, however I am not able to display the RPM. I am using the same spindle pulse generator that I used previously and I know that works. Furthermore, the Hardware screen indicates that the index pulse is being detected and the pulse is detected when I use the "automated setup of inputs" feature.
When I click the RPM button, the button turns green, but no RPM is displayed. With the spindle turning and an index pulse being generated, I attempt to use the "Calibrate Spindle" function, but when I click "AutoCal", I receive the message "Start Spindle at any speed".
I assume the problem lies with a configuration setting that I have missed.
Any suggestions for correcting the problem will be appreciated.
Regards,
Osker
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Try a M3 or M4 in the MDI line.
RICH
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Hi Osker,
Would you clarify for me what you mean by the "RPM button"?
The spindle controls in MSM are labeled "CW" for clockwise spindle rotation, "CCW" for counter clockwise rotation, and "Off" for stop spindle.
These controls may be found on the run page and the fly out page.
There is a RPM DRO on the run page - but it is not a button that can be clicked. So I don't think you mean that control as you said the "button turns green" and the DRO label can't do that.
BTW - Mach only shows RPM if the spindle is running.
Given that you said you used the ports & pins auto config facility, your P&P mappings may have changed as a result.
Are you sure you have the index signal on the port & pin that mach thinks is the index input?
Dave
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Dave,
Thanks for clarifying that "RPM" is a DRO - not a button. I thought that it was a button because it changed color when clicked (Run Screen). I am away from the shop, but yesterday I tried clicking the "CW" and "CCW" and did not see RPM displayed. I will try that again, as well as entering M3 or M4 in the MIDI line.
BTW - the spindle was turning. I connect to my computer via a breakout board that has LEDs that indicate the state of the input. The LED for the spindle input blinks consistent the pulse being generated. So, I am confident that I am getting an index pulse and I am reasonably confident that I mapped the P&P correctly. Just to be certain, I will check the mapping again.
More later, once I have tried the suggestions.
Osker
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Just confirmed that the P&P is mapped correctly and also tried entering M3 and M4 in the MIDI screen. Entering M3 or M4 causes the Dwell to momentarily turn green, but produces no RPM readout. The same thing happens when I click on "CW" or "CCW".
I plan to hook a scope to the index input and check to see if I am getting a clean square wave, but it worked before. Any other thoughts on what I need to check?
Osker
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Last night, I checked the index pulse and it is a clean square wave with about +5V peak-to-peak. I tried changing input ports and and reconfigured MachStd Mill settings accordingly. Tried entering M3 and M4 (separate entries) in the MIDI screen and clicked "CW" and "CCW". Each of which caused the Dwell to momentarily turn green, no RPM readout.
Unless someone has a recommendation for what I should try next, let me rephrase my question to the following:
What is the process for setting up and enabling the RPM function in MachStd Mill?
Regards,
Osker
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Dave,
Thanks for clarifying that "RPM" is a DRO - not a button. I thought that it was a button because it changed color when clicked (Run Screen).
Osker
Osker,
DROs and Buttons are very distinct visually and follow a consistent pattern. Please refer to section 2 of the MSM manual for more information.
Re all DROs turning green if clicked - this is a "feature" of mach that I personally really, really dislike - allow me to explain...
Mach has a concept of something we call "DROs". They are the controls on a screen used to display numeric values.
They can also be used to input values from the operator into Mach.
Alas, there are multiple DROs that are defined by Mach that ONLY output values for the operator to see. It is impossible to enter a value into them and thereby change the internal value that mach uses.
The actual RPM DRO is one example of this. It is "display value to user only". We'll call this type of DRO "Read only" - i.e. the user/operator can read the value, but not set it.
Some confusion comes about because Mach uses a single screen control for ALL DROs. This makes all DROs act as **IF** you can input a value to them - which is very confusing from a user interface design viewpoint.
If you click any DRO in MSM it will highlight green (in fact any DRO in any screen set will highlight if clocked) - but this does not mean that you can input a value into all DROs. Yes I know that is not intuitive - but is what mach does and MSM has no control over it.
As explained in section 2 of the MSM manual: To make this a bit better, Read/Write (RW) DROs in MSM have a inner green border - this indicates visually the DROs which will actually accept a value. Read only (RO) DROs do not have the border.
A true RO DRO screen control is part of the V4 wish list...
Dave
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What is the process for setting up and enabling the RPM function in MachStd Mill?
Regards,
Osker
Hi Osker,
I'm not trying to be flippant, but the way the index pulse and RPM DROs work in MSM is the same as in any other screen set.
The index pulse goes into mach, assuming that Port&Pins is configured correctly, mach counts the index pulses when the spindle is running). Mach makes the counted value available in the RPM DRO. A screen just places the RPM dro on a page and mach updates the value as mach does other DROs.
If you are not seeing the RPM value when the spindle is running, the most probable cause is that the index pulse ports & pins setting has a configuration problem.
There are other less likely things that could have happened - for example a screen set could place a DRO that is visually labeled as the RPM DRO but which might accidentally be some other DRO value. This would be a screen set bug. While at this point in time, that is not likely for the RPM DRO in MSM, I will go double check it when I get a chance to get into the shop.
Dave
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There are other less likely things that could have happened - for example a screen set could place a DRO that is visually labeled as the RPM DRO but which might accidentally be some other DRO value. This would be a screen set bug. While at this point in time, that is not likely for the RPM DRO in MSM, I will go double check it when I get a chance to get into the shop.
Dave
Hi Osker,
I had a chance to double check: I started up MSM (Parallel port), set the S word and started the spindle via the CW button - it shows the actual RPM reading form the index pulse in the RPM DRO on the Run page. My check was done with Mach 3.43.22 and MSM 0.3.15 (Beta 11).
Ok, I know you said you had scoped the input index signal and it looked good.
Let's follow the signal chain....
!) Index electrical signal is good (at where ever you tested it).
2) Are you Parallel port or smooth stepper?
I'm going to assume PP (there are way more PP machines than SS based machine).
3) On the MSM hardware - PP driver page: look at the pin you have the index pulse physically connected to. does it blink when the spindle is running? (It won't blink at the spindle RPM rate as a back ground process samples the pins to drive the screen LEDs. but it should blink when spindle is running and not blink (may be either on or off - depends on your hdw) when spindle is not running).
If this is good then we know the index pulse is being seen by mach at the port/pin physical level.
Now we go up a layer to the logical signal level:
4) go to the hardware-signals page. Is the index LED blinking?
If so, mach is also correctly mapping the hdw input pin to the logical index signal.
If is is not blinking, the port&Pins mapping is probably the issue.
IF some other logical signal led is blinking instead of the Index LED, that is a clue as to what is wrong with the P&P configuration.
If both the hdw pin LED and the logical index signal led are blinking when the spindle runs, but you are not seeing the RPM readout, then I'm stumped for right now.
Dave
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Dave,
Thank you for your efforts, but we are both stumped. You were correct to assume my system is a parallel port system. On the MSM hardware - PP driver page, the index pin (#12) does blink with the spindle turning. It also blinks on the hardware-signals page. I entered S 429. clicked CW and also CCW, both with no RPM readout. You have not asked, but I am running the most current versions of Mach3 and MachStdMill, as described on the website.
Any other recommendations will be appreciated.
Osker
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Hi Osker,
I'm scratching my head here for ideas -
in general config, do you have an index debounce value set (i.e. a non-zero value)?
if so what is that value?
[I edited my post to add more info:]
1) After the index signal comes into mach, mach applies debounce in software.
One thought is that the index debouce may be set to a high value. If the debounce filtering is set high enough (i.e. debounce value * 40us > index pulse width), mach would be filtering out all the index pulses (thinking they are "too short" and thus are noise) - this would leave no index pulses to count and thus the RPM DRO would read zero.
2) with mach shutdown, please run drivertest.exe (found in the Mach dir), and tell me what version of the PP driver is installed.
The current version of the PP driver that is installed by 3.43.22 is 570.
Dave
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Dave,
Where is the version shown?
Do you mean go to My Computer>Contol Panel> System >Hardware>Device Manager>and look at the properties of the Mach3Driver in Windows?
RICH
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Rich,
No, not the version info that a programmer is supposed to put in that windows shows as a property of a driver.
The only way i know to get the version of the PP driver is to run the drivertest program.
Drivertest shows the mach driver version near the top of the info that driver test program displays.
Dave
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This may be a stupid question but have you given Mach3 a speed command e.g. S1000 M3/4
Graham
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Drivertest shows the mach driver version near the top of the info that driver test program displays.
I don't see anything in the driver screen display which shows the version number........ ???
RICH
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Dave,
Answers to your questions are (see below):
Debounce is set to 1
Driver version is 570.
Mach version is R3.043.022
Additionally, when the same setup is running and I run the MachTurn, RPM information is displayed when I click "Spindle"
Any other suggestions?
Osker
[I edited my post to add more info:]
1) After the index signal comes into mach, mach applies debounce in software.
One thought is that the index debouce may be set to a high value. If the debounce filtering is set high enough (i.e. debounce value * 40us > index pulse width), mach would be filtering out all the index pulses (thinking they are "too short" and thus are noise) - this would leave no index pulses to count and thus the RPM DRO would read zero.
2) with mach shutdown, please run drivertest.exe (found in the Mach dir), and tell me what version of the PP driver is installed.
The current version of the PP driver that is installed by 3.43.22 is 570.
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Graham,
I am confident that the problem is a simple oversight on my part, so there is no such thing as a stupid question.
In response to your question. Yes, I have entered various S and M values into the MIDI screen, with the spindle is turning and producing a clean square wave of about +5V P-to-p.
As mentioned in my response to Dave, the same system produces an RPM readout when running under MachTurn, so I think it reasonable to conclude that the hardware is correct.
Any other suggestions?
Osker
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Osker,
I seem to be running low on ideas at the moment -
When you say "the same system" shows RPM when running turn, I tend to read that as "the same hardware setup".
Is the turn setup using the same profile as the mill setup?
If the same profile is being used, thus tends to point us toward the difference being in the screen set that is loaded (mill vs trun).
However, if the profiles are different, then I tend to want to look for the difference between the profiles for clues.
Dave
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Dave,
Your assumption is correct, "same system" refers to the hardware setup. I took this a little further today and setup three identical profiles, as it pertains to the index pulse; one for MachStdMill, one for the original MachMill, and one for MachTurn. All connected to the same machine and pulse index hardware and parallel port pin 12. RPM readout is displayed correctly in both the original MachMill and MachTurn screens. No RPM readout displayed in MachStdMill.
Hope this provides a clue.
Dan
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Please try this:
1) I'll call the profile that you made for the 1024 mill screen set "M3M"
2) start the mach loader; Create profile; select M3M as the "clone from" profile, make new profile name (I'll use MSM2 as my example", do not check "default profile values"; click ok
3) you will now be back to the first mach loader screen -
4) select MSM2, click OK -
5) mach will start using the new cloned profile (MSM2), it will load the 1024 screen set (as that was the screen set for the M#M profile)
6) use menus: view, load screens. select c:\mach3\MachStdMIll.set
7) you should now see mach load the MSM screens.
Check the RPM DRO - is it working for you now?
Dave
Dave,
Your assumption is correct, "same system" refers to the hardware setup. I took this a little further today and setup three identical profiles, as it pertains to the index pulse; one for MachStdMill, one for the original MachMill, and one for MachTurn. All connected to the same machine and pulse index hardware and parallel port pin 12. RPM readout is displayed correctly in both the original MachMill and MachTurn screens. No RPM readout displayed in MachStdMill.
Hope this provides a clue.
Dan
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Dave,
As a point of clarification, am I correct in assuming that the 1024 screen set refers to the pre-MachStdMill screen sets? If correct, I followed your instructions:
1) Cloned the profile for my original mill profile
2) Launched the new profile from Mach Loader
3) RPM was displayed in the RPM DRO
4) Used the View menu and selected c:\Mach3\MachStdMill.set
5) The MachStdMill screen displays RPM in the RPM DRO
Suggested next steps will be appreciated.
Osker
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Hi Osker,
That is good news - this tells me that whatever the issue was, it is a difference between the contents of the profile (XML) files.
1) Yes, 1024 refers to the pre-MSM screen sets. Sorry for the jargon - "1024.set" is the file name of the old mach mill 1024x768 resolution mill screens. Many people refer to it as simply "1024". So you did the right thing.
2) The steps you followed had you take the working mill profile, make a copy of it, then manually load the MSM screen instead of the old screens. The result is that you now have a working profile that runs MSM.
3) next step? none. ;D
Just use the profile that you created (the one I referred to as MSM2 in my instruction steps) - it will be just fine for running MSM. The MSM2 profile will now start MSM when you start mach using that profile. Thus there is no next step - you're all set.
4) OK, this does leave open the intellectual question of what was the difference between the profiles that caused the issue.
Frankly, I'm going to ignore that, as whatever it is, it is not an MSM issue (which is the focus of the beta test phase).
I don't mean to sound like I don't care, but in some sense I don't ;)
...this is an instance where (knowing that it is not an MSM bug), I just can't afford to spend the time needed to track down the details of a non-MSM issue.
Have fun using MSM, let me know if something else crops up.
Dave
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Dave,
Thanks for providing the excellent assistance. I sincerely appreciate you taking time to work through the problem with me.
I understand the need to budget time to focus on real issues, versus curiosities. If I find the time to compare the two profiles, and I find the difference, I will let you know.
Thanks again,
Osker