Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: ranchak on September 04, 2010, 10:39:58 PM
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I have a BP Series 1 retorfitted with G203s, PMDX-122 board and running the original motors. My computer is running XP, never hooked to the internet. I use Vcarve Pro for my CAM program. Up until Friday I was using a Smootstepper but I'm tired of getting the error that SS lost data. I got a parallel board and am running this now. I have noticed that Mach will not be consistent in what it does all of the time. When I load a new program or close a program and load a new program the Reset button will need to be pushed sometimes, but not everytime. Also when I close a program and load a new program X and Y axis will not be set at 0,0 like they were prior to loading the new program. Another problem is when I use the Auto Tool Zero, Mach will somehow have a new X,Y home, the machine doesn't move and the readout on the screenset stays where it was prior to the tool change, but when you hit Cycle Start the machine moves to where it thinks the proper coordinates are. Now these problems have happened with both the SS and parallel port board. I am cutting the same parts over and over and I noticed that one of the parts that I cut is cut incorrectly. The toolpath is running at .006" depth using a 1/4" TiN end mill in aluminum. The part is .500 thick and the edge is smooth, meaning that the machine is capable of repetition. I use this machine daily and I need to have reliability. What can I do or where should I start looking.
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Sounds like your code may well be calling work and tool offsets.
Hood
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Same program running over and over, I'll try recalculating my toolpaths and saving a fresh copy. What is the latest release of Mach 3? Are there any updates that maybe I don't have?
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I found that I do not have the latest version, if I install the latest version will it keep all of my current settings or do I have to start over? I am trying a fresh copy of my program today and I will see if I have the same problems as before and if they occur at the same time or step in the program.
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Copy your xml to a safe location just in case but you shouldnt have a problem if you just install Mach over the top of the old version.
Hood
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I can't seem to reply to this post
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I can't seem to reply to this post
You just have ;D
From your PM I would definitely suspect the tool setting routine as from what I gather it is only after running the routine that your X and Y position changes.
Hood
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Here we go again! Today I did not use the ATZ feature and manually set the tool height, same @$#% thing, the origin X,Y is reset. I wondered if there is something in the code, I looked at it and I didn't see where the origin was reset. Here is the part of code where the problem occured:
N16840G00X-2.6515Y-0.6475Z0.2500
N16850T201M6
N16860 (Tool: End Mill {0.125 inches})
N16870G43H201
N16880S2500M03
(Profile .125 End Mill)
()
N16910G00X-2.6515Y-0.7100Z0.2500
N16920G1X-2.6515Y-0.7100Z-0.0059F10.0
N16930G1X2.6515Y-0.7100Z-0.0059F40.0
N16940G3X2.7140Y-0.6475I0.0000J0.0625
This not the only place where this problem has occured.
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You said the DRO for X and Y dont change but when you do a Go To Zero the position has changed, I cant see how that is possible, are you sure you are not loosing steps?
Hood
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Hood, I sent you a copy of my XML file. Here is what is happening:
Change Tool
Manually Set Tool Height
Look at DROs, nothing has changed except the Z axis
Push Cycle Start
Mill takes off in the wrong direction
Hit Stop
DROs read what is in code
Push Go To Zero
Machine is definately not at the original X,Y 0,0 point
???????????????????????
The DRO now reads 0,0,0
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Ok so Mach is going totally the wrong way but DROs read correct for where it should be. That sounds like the issue Terry (BR549) used to suffer from, so may want to see if he can shed any light on it.
Hood
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I can't seem to add attachments, I get an error that there already is an attachment with that name
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I also get this error from your email:
Hi. This is the qmail-send program at yahoo.com.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
I am just a train wreck today.
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To add an attachment it needs a name that has not been used before. Because Mach3Mill.xml will have been used you will need to copy the xml to your desktop and rename it then attach, suggest you call it ranchak.xml
Dont know why you get that error, must be Yahoo will not send xml files thinking they are a virus.
Best bet is to PM Terry and see if it looks like the problem he suffered from and if he found a cure. Last I knew the only way he could get rid of the problem was delete the Mach3 folder and reinstall Mach anew.
Hood
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That's exactly what I was thinking of doing. Did his problem occur suddenly? How can I reach him? Thanks, Ron
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This is Terrys profile, you can either PM or email him as I see he has his email visible.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=24665
Think it did happen all of a sudden and on his machine would be fine for a while then happen again but Terry will be able to give you the details better than me.
Hood
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Oh and I think that is the Mach3.exe you have renamed rather than the xml. See what Terry says first then if no joy try again but this time look in C:\Mach3 for a file called Mach3Mill.xml and rename and attach it.
Hood
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How about this?
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Yes thats the correct file :) I will have a look through it and see if I can find anything wrong but if its the same issue as Terry then I am unlikely to find anything as I am sure he has looked enough at his. Also as the DROs read correctly then I wont see anything wrong as it is the machine that goes wrong.
It may be a different problem though so maybe I will pick up the problem in the xml.
Hood
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I'll wait to hear back from you before I uninstall/install Mach. Thanks, Ron
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I notice you have pin 16 used for spindle step, spindle Dir and also OutPut 1, doesnt seem like that would be correct to me. Likely not your problem but.....
Hood
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I Think that was for the previous BOB that I was using. I am manually starting the spindle, I can change this if you think this is a problem. Although it has been set this way for almost a year.
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Mach is looking at one pin for three different things, whether it would cause issue I cant say for sure but definitely best not to have it that way.
Dont see anything else unusual about your xml so far.
Hood
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I see you have the macropump enabled, what code do you have in it?
Hood
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Here you go
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Looks innocent enough, what exactly is it for?
Hood
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I used to have a remote button that was used for the ATZ feature. I since turned off the brain and I use the button onscreen. I was having trouble were the ATZ would not get the true zero. Maybe I should eliminate this, but I don't see how it can change the X,Y origin.
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Not likely to be the problem but again if you dont use it no point in it taking up resources. Presume your m615 macro doesnt do anything to X or Y axis?
Hood
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That is the macro for the ATZ remote button, I don't see anything to do with X,Y axis.
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Ok so same code as you posted before so no problems with it.
Looks like a reinstall would be the quickest way. Instead of deleting the Mach3 folder just rename it, that way if you need anything from it it will all be there but set up a new xml in the fresh install as it could be something in the xml causing the issues and you dont want to copy it back.
Hood
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Well here goes. Thanks for all of your help. I imagine by the time I get finished and run another part you will be asleep. I'll get back to you and let you know my progree. Thanks again, Ron
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The more I think about this the less I can see where things are going wrong. The DROs show the axis in the correct positions, presuming the toolpath does too? If I recall correctly I am sure Art said Mach monitors directly at the port and updates the DROs from pulses it puts out, so that would kind of make it seem Mach is putting out the correct pulses. Hopefully Terry will chime in and tell us what he saw but I suspect he actually saw the DROs and the Toolpath showing the axis going wild.
So whats left then, hardware issue I suppose but not really sure how that could be the issue unless a Dir change is not being seen by the drives or something like that.
Hood
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I don't really know, I guess anything is possible. I reinstalled Mach and now I can't get my drives to move. I thought I copied everything down correctly, but I must be missing something somewhere. I have to run out to a meeting, when I get back I will try to look and see where I made my mistake.
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Heres your settings.
Hood
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And last one.
Hood
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Sure helps if you assign the right parallel port address!
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LOL thought that would be the most likely ;D
Hood
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Well I did check, but I assumed that it was the correct address. After double and triple checking everything else I looked at it again and realized it was wrong! I did manage to cut one part last night correctly. I used the ATZ feature and everything appeared to be working correctly. I have one more part out of this run to cut. I will then start on a different run and we'll have to see what happens. Thanks again for everything, I would have never been able to get this worked out. Ron
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Hopefully thats it sorted :)
Hood
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I sure hope so, I'm running the last part now and will start running the next one in about two hours.
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I cut two parts flawlessly. I just started the next part and on the 4th toolpath, a pocketing operation, I noticed that the depth didn't seem correct. I went to look and see what was happening when I saw the machine return to make another pass and then.... I saw the machine travel in the x direction, stop, pause, the DRO on the x axis changed and the tool position is off. Here we go again!
Everything was working great. I did notice that there were a few differences between my previous Mach and the new install. One thing is the ATZ actually follows the code, before the tool height we be some random height about the material, now it is always 1.000. Also it seems like when you push Cycle Start the machine moves and then pauses (I have a 7 second delay), before I think it paused then moved. Oh well, I still need to get this sorted out. The parts I'm running now have about a 3 1/2 hour cycle time. I can't be having problems with these.
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Well the 7 second delay is due to you having that set for spindle spin up, it should happen when your code has a M3 or M4 call.
You say the X DRO changed, what did it change to and what should it have been? Do you have any Brains or Plugins running?
Hood
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I didn't keep track of where the DRO went, but I did watch it change. This happened during a pocketing toolpath, 18 passes, it happened on the 4th pass. I stopped the program, pushed Go To Zero and it wasn't the original starting point. There are no brains running, but I do have one for the ModIOMPG and one for the auxillary ATZ push button.
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Did the toolpath show the machine moving the wrong way?
Did Terry have any suggestions?
Hood
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The machine didn't appear to show the toolpath moving the wrong way, it appears that it traveled as far as it "thought" it should in relation to X,Y origin. I didn't get a chance to pm Terry yet, I was going to try to get some work done. I think I'll try shutting down and restarting the computer and see what happens. I'll also pm Terry in the meantime since it looks like I now have a slightly different problem.
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If it happens again try and keep notes such as where the DRO says it is, where it actually is, whether the toolpath shows etc, might help narrow things down.
Hood
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I'll do that, I'm setting up another part. I'll take a picture of the bad one and you can see the problem.
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ok :)
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Here is the picture of the part that is wrong. I used black marker to highlight the intended path (which is cut really rough, you can see a different finished part beside it and it used the same tool and parameters). The orange is where the problem occured. And the machine just did it again on the new part.
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Here's a screenshot of the last occurance. What a PITA this is getting to be. This happened right after a tool change and using the ATZ function.
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I still am tending towards hardware issues, whether thats a dyeing computer or drive issues. Proof of the pudding will be whether the DROs and Toolpath show the axis going wild, if yes then its Mach, if no I reckon its not.
Hood
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Here's the screenshot, the DROs do not match the code.
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As they say, if it weren't for bad luck I would have no luck at all. I bought a spare computer about a year ago, it was a floor model at one of the office superstores, but it ran XP. I pulled it out oday to use and it doesn't have a parallel port, so I called the local computer store and they will have one on Friday. I figured I can probably deal with the SS until then, I start to set up the new computer and I find out it has password protection (at this moment I won't type what I said, but you can only imagine what it was). I am now thinking about going back to the store and strangling the manager who sold this computer to me, but cooler heads prevail. I thought I would be a smart ass and type in 1234 as the password, no idiot would use this, but I really have nothing to loose at this time beside my temper. IT WORKED! So I am deleting all of the nonsense that comes on a new computer and I have the SS hooked up, I am starting to install the software, when.... there is no MY COMPUTER to click on to access the cd drive. I also can not access the CONTROL PANEL. What a royal PITA this is getting to be. Hopefully this story will make someone laugh or realize that they are not alone, but I do feel like I have a dark cloud that follows me around.
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Sorry Guys I just noticed this one.
First question Did the machine ever do this while hooked to the SS??
(;-) TP
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Hi Terry, It did, but never at first, all of this started last week. I was having problems with the SS losing data, but sometimes when I used the ATZ feature I would have a problem where the X,Y origin changed. The DROs never changed, but when you pushed GO TO ZERO it was not the original 0,0. I assume this was related to the SS so I got a parallel port board. I ran a few parts and experienced the same problem, but never at the same part of the program and never while the toolpath was running. It got to the point where it was impossible to finish a part. Hood suggested to remove Mach and install a fresh copy, I did this and the machine ran great, for two parts. Then on a new part (different programming) I noticed that the 1/2 end mill was noisy and not cutting a nice clean profile. I went over to the machine and saw the tool stop in the x axis, I looked up at the screen and saw the DROs change and then the tool went in the opposite direction. I stopped the program and pushed GO TO ZERO, not the original zero. This happened on the 4th pass of a pocketing operation. The picture is posted in another post. So I ran a new part and everything was going fine and I changed out the tool, used the ATZ and when I pushed CYCLE START I saw the DROs change and the tool's position did not match the DROs readout (pic is also in another post). None of this happens at the same time, the only thing is that about 80-90% of the time it occurs after a toolchange and ATZ. BUT this is the same ATZ macro that I have been using for 4 months. Weird that all of a sudden these things are popping up, that's why I decided to try a new PC to see if that could be the problem. Ron
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1234 as the password
Off thread .....but, here is a little TRUE humor.....
I did a spec at work and somebody wanted to use it for his job, a lot of work was done on it by me. When asked for it, I sent it, but he replied back that it was password protected. He called and asked for the password, and i promptly replied, F?$# You, he asked again and i replied the same. So unknown to me he went to his boss and explained what he was told.
The boss called and asked for the password, I replied the same words. He said i could be fired for what was said. I replied to him that i gave him the password what more does he want from me? He hung up!
Four hours later that boss called me and suggested I find new pass words to use. I told him that I understood, but, that he must admit that he wouldn't forget it and that folks at work just don't listen anymore.
He agreed and said it was one for his memoirs. We still laugh about it till this day!
:D
RICH
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You say you see the DRO change, does it do that when the axis are stationary?
Hood
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OK so there WAS a time when this did NOT occur?? What you are describing sounds like hardware MISSED steps. IF it were Mach acting up the DRO would NOT be showing the correct values. When you say the DROs are correct BUT the origin has changed that means somewhere steps were missed and the tool is no longer in the correct position. Is your lube pump working?? Dry ways on a BP can causes extra drag. IF you are using the original motros and Geckos then you are NOT blessed with a lot of extra torque.
Just to make sure(;-) When you GO TO ZERO the DROs read zero BUT the tool is NOT at the origin correct?
To recap your REinstall(;-)
When you upgraded Versions DID you use the same XML??
DO you have an original version of the XML stored away as a backup?? SURE YOU DO right(;-).
IF you have a backup of the xml then copy it over to the Mach directory.
IF you don't start from scratch and build a NEW one.
Next Make sure there are NO extra XMLs in the mach directory(;-)
Delete ALL the mach backups in the backup directory(mach will rebuild them) If you don't then mach has possable access to bad data.
Just some thoughts, (;-) TP
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To continue Yes to what Hood asked. When you say the dros changed did the machine MOVE at the same time.
DO you used tool offsets? Tool length offsets?? From the tool table?
How about work offsets G54,G55,G56,etc ?
What macros do you use at tool change?? M6start,M6end??
What macro do you use for ATZ
Does this ever accur on jobs that do not have a tool change?? Maybe you need to test that??
Do you have a simple job that this occurs a lot of times?? So we can run a test??
(;-) TP
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Hi Guys, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I installed a new PC and everything seems to be working fine.
To continue Yes to what Hood asked. When you say the dros changed did the machine MOVE at the same time.
NO
DO you used tool offsets? Tool length offsets?? From the tool table?
NO
How about work offsets G54,G55,G56,etc ?
NO
What macros do you use at tool change?? M6start,M6end??
I JUST USE M06, WHICH IS GENERATED BY VCARVE
What macro do you use for ATZ
SEE ATTACHMENT
Does this ever accur on jobs that do not have a tool change?? Maybe you need to test that??
I HAVEN'T RUN ANY JOBS THAT DON'T HAVE TOOL CHANGES.
Do you have a simple job that this occurs a lot of times?? So we can run a test??
OF COURSE NOT, THAT WOULD BE TO EASY.
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Do you think I was having trouble with my RAM?? This is a new hard drive in this PC. I just picked up a used Flexicam Router and I was thinking of using this PC with it. Smoothstepper is working fine with the new PC. I did order a parallel port card and a seperate video card, my display is not what it should be.