Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: liquidmetal on September 03, 2010, 01:50:43 PM
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I'm doing a job for the local VFW hall, they are going to present a shotgun to one of their oldest members who is a Veteran of Iwo Jima. I'm going to do the engraving for them at no charge but I 'd really LOVE to engrave an image of the Flag Raising photograph by Joe Rosenthal. I'm looking for advice on turning an image like that into line art that I can make into an engraveable .nc file. I have a nice flat area that would look absolutely amazing with that image on there. Thanks in advance,
Mike
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Vectrics Photo V Carve is an excellent programme for doing that kind of thing, heres a few I have done.
The Demo can be used but it will have a watermark across it, sometimes that shows on the carving other times it doesnt, one of these was done with the demo the other two were with the licensed programme. Its well worth the cost if you are going to do a few :)
Hood
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Nice Hood. Didn't know you were hard into this ;) I liked Sam. What are these cut in... stainless?
Never did V curving. How does it work - how do you achieve all the shades? Is special lighting required to view them?
Daniel
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image of the Flag Raising photograph by Joe Rosenthal
Can you post the photo?
Also can you post a picture of the receiver?
Would be happy to contribute as a small token of appreciation.
There are some things to consider and you only get to do it once and right the first time around ...............
You can also send me an email.
RICH
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Try out your machine and see what results you get from attached file.
May want to scale it down some ....
RICH
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Nice Hood. Didn't know you were hard into this ;) I liked Sam. What are these cut in... stainless?
Never did V curving. How does it work - how do you achieve all the shades? Is special lighting required to view them?
Daniel
Not really in to it as my machines are not the most suitable, axis speed on them is fine but spindle speed too slow so things take a long time. For example the car in the last pic is approx 200mm x 120mm and it took 2.5 to 3hrs.
The boat and the car are 5083 alu and the horse is in brass. The boat actually got made into a number plate for a house in brass and the alu was only as a test. The only pic I have of the finished number plate is not that great :(
The carving is filled with paint or dye of some sort, the deeper/wider the vee the more paint there is so the darker it shows up.
Hood
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Thanks for explaining this, Hood.
Daniel
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I'm not sure how to post a picture here, it's the famous picture taken by Joe Rosenthal of the Flag raising on Iwo Jima, a quick search will bring it up. I've got an area about 1.5" x 1.5" that's nice an flat. I'd like the picture on there and I can do the text, the Man's name and such. I've got the Eagle, Globe and Anchor USMC emblem for the other side. I'm really looking forward to doing this.
Thanks,
Mike
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Mike,
Try the file I attached on some scrap and see how it turns out. I think the depth of cut is 0.005". Set the scale at .6 in mach and that will get you close to what is shown in the attached pic. The box is 1.5 x 1.5 ".
It's just a test piece which will give you an idea of what to expect from the picture. It has the flag, some stars, and a few details which will give you an idea of how well your machine will engrave. At that size you don't want much detail but still need to convey the info to the viewer. Thus detail in the right spots, some shading cuts, and minimize the amount of gcode / movements.
Can you post a picture of the reciever side that it will go on?
To post a pic just, click preview, and then when the window opens, click Additional Options and you will see that you can attach a file.
RICH
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Heres what PhotoVcarve would give you but would need to know the feeds and speeds you can use, the type of cutter etc. This is with a 45 Vee degree cutter.
Hood
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Hood,
How well will PhotoVcarve capture an outline for single line engraving.
Here is an example from a different program.
RICH
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Hi Rich, wouldnt do that at all without major tweaking of the photo as it is just meant to reproduce the image. Obviously if you had a line drawing thats what it would see and spit out the code for.
Hood
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That photo/v carve is nice but I can't afford it for a free project, you know what I mean? Rich, I'll try it. Thanks. Mike
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Here's a scroll test for you to play with.
RICH
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That photo/v carve is nice but I can't afford it for a free project, you know what I mean?
Totally understand, thats why I said I would need your feeds and speeds and angle of cutter ;)
One thing though is you have to have a spindle with no end float if doing a small V Carve like this as in the pic I attached the max depth is only 0.4mm so any end float and it would come out crap.
Hood
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See IF you can find a copy of the scene as a coloring book page. Then convert it to lines with Inkscape(free)
http://www.patrioticcoloringpages.com/memorial-day/009-iwo-jima-picture-to-color.html
Just a thought, (;-) TP
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Hood, my machine is a home built device, a 3 axis sherline clone that I put japan stepper motors on and built a device to hold a dremel hand held rotary saw as my spindle. It spins at 5, 10, 15k. I generally use this thing to engrave text only, not anythign like this. I run my feeds around 10-15ipm and fine tune with Mach3 as required per job.
See IF you can find a copy of the scene as a coloring book page. Then convert it to lines with Inkscape(free)
http://www.patrioticcoloringpages.com/memorial-day/009-iwo-jima-picture-to-color.html
Just a thought, (;-) TP
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Mike,
Appreciate the enthusiasm,but, do you really feel confortable achieving the engraving on that firearm with your machine?
RICH
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I sure do, I've done a number of simpler images and hundreds of lines of text with it, I know it sounds somewhat rough but it works suprisingly well and it's quite rigid for what it is. I take it nice and easy and for something like this I'd definately practice on a junk gun. I'm a full time gunsmith at a gunshop (www.newmellegunshop.com) and have a number of junkers to practice on. I also build my own line of sound suppressors (www.amermfg.com) and primarily engrave text on them. I also use chemical etching from Martronics but it works best on stainlesses. It's real touchy on bluing and this particular one is a blued receiver.
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Here is the coloring book version. Seems like the wind is blowing in a different direction.... ???
Something to experiment with.....have fun,
RICH
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Give this a try.
X and Y zero at lower left corner.
Z tool offset on the surface, Z+.100 for clearance
F10. for plunge and contour (you may want to slow down)
1.48 wide 1.49 high
Special thanks to BR549 for the coloring page.
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Mike,
Joe's posted NC is a good example of how to reduce the amount of Gcode by using arcs instead of lines.
It will cut the machining time down significantly.
Thanks for the time Joe.
There is a difference between the pictures and that is a decision you need to make.
Requested a picture of the reciever. You just don't pluck a pic onto it ......
I would assume that you will do some kind of boarder for it and consideration should be given to the shape it's going on.
You mention that the reciever is in the blue and you'll be cutting thru the blueing and you need a fall back plan in case of tool breakage.
Hopefully it's not hardened.There is a different apperance of a white on black background and you can't touch anything up.
Since additional engraving is going on the other side both sides should have a common look to them.
So what is the overall game plan?
Just something to think about,
Rich
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My plan is to do the Flag raising with the text "Uncommon Valor Was A Common Virtue" in an arc around the image, the text is no problem as I have 2l's wonderful text engraving program. The other side of the receiver will have the Eagle Globe and Anchor USMC image with his ame on top of the image and "Semper Fideis" below it. It's not like I've never done any engraving before, I know how to place things and to avoid damaging cutters. I think a single line type image will work better and just because I'm cutting bluing does not mean that if something goes wrong I'm screwed. The way I learned from master gunsmiths is the worst you can do is to F it all up, then all you have to do is to fix it, then to learn from it and to not do it again. Worst I'll have to do is to reblue the receiver ( I do traditional hot caustic bluing) which I'm considering doing anyway after engraving it, I think it would look great. As always, the help I get from this forum is absolutely the best, bar none and I sincerely appreciate the outpouring of both images, code and just plain advice. The shotgun is a JC Higgins model 20, 12 ga., the right side, ejection port side has a 2 inch tall by 3 inch long flat and the opposite side has a 2 inch tall by 5 3/4 inch flat. Excellent surfaces. These SG's are excellent hosts for turkey shoot guns and the idea is to give him a shooter he can compete with that's been personalized to him and to show the VFW's appreciation to both him and his service.
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As a business owner that runs Mach on 3 machines (and 99% of our work is V carving) and owns a laser engraver, I have to say, laser engraving is the way to go. The resolution will be so unbelievable that you'll think it's an actual photo on the gun. And it would probably take no longer than 5-10 minutes. If I were you, I'd ask around to see if there's anyone within reasonable distance that has a laser machine. You're not giving any work away, since it's a free job! And I can just about guarantee a v engraved image will not be anywhere near the quality (or at least the resolution) as a laser.
My 2 cents.
Bill Sines