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Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: GEORGETOUBALIS on October 23, 2006, 06:47:43 AM

Title: Different use of Mach3
Post by: GEORGETOUBALIS on October 23, 2006, 06:47:43 AM
Hi! from Greece...
First of All sorry for bad My English.

I m 35 years old
Job: Art Director SonyBmg Greece

I m An expert on Graphic Arts so if you have any Q about Print, Colour theory, Photoshop, QuarkXress, Adobe Illustrator you can ask anytime....

Some links to see the Use Of My Table
I want to build A CNC machine to use it for doming decals
You can see this video: http://www.color-dec.com/doming500W.mov
Or some information Here
http://developmentassociatesinc.com/scriptxyz.htm
http://www.liquidcontrol.com/pdf/automation/c500.pdf
http://domeit.com/
http://www.efd-inc.com/xyz/index.html

I want to build A XYZ machine for doming scripting
Doming Scripting
Doming:
Applying a clear doming material
(urethane & epoxy) to the surface of labels, nameplates or decals for the purpose of creating a clear raised (?domed?) surface. Used to enhance and protect the appearance of these products.
Scripting: An automated doming process using XYZ motion to traverse scripted products.

I Almost finished the hydraulic part a precision metering system for two component.
I have to mix in Ratio 1:1 two parts and the mixed fluid has to be applied under (0.5 -1 bar) pressure on decals or stickers by the dispense valve.

I design a table for this job

(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8804/cnclj2.th.jpg) (http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cnclj2.jpg) (http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7216/45x90ael0.th.jpg) (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=45x90ael0.jpg) (http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/5315/cinema4dtutorial013vh6.th.jpg) (http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cinema4dtutorial013vh6.jpg)
I think to buy from http://www.lowcostcncretrofits.com the 5Axis Servo controller.
and use the mach3 to control the motion.

The Question is :
Is that possible to make this motion
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8178/motionofthevalvebw3.th.jpg) (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=motionofthevalvebw3.jpg)

Or look at the video
http://www.efd-inc.com/media/800qtm-media-micro.html

As you can see  The Z
Goes down then
the valve is open then
run the X Y path then
Stop the Valve then
The Z  goes up

and loop to the next path

Is that possible with mach 3

i will buy the mach 3 but only if it possible to make this kind of motion :'( :'( :'(


 sorry again for bad My English

Please if you know or you have an idea answer me...! :)



Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: dfurlano on October 23, 2006, 07:54:03 AM
Well it seams reasonable but you can download Mach3 for free and give it a try.
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: GEORGETOUBALIS on October 23, 2006, 08:24:46 AM
Quote
give it a try.
I have not finish the table yet... :'(
I can't test it....!

I want to know from people which the mach3 is familiar and well knowed to give me an answer for sure...!  ;)
I think this motion is like to drill holes.... ::)
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: Chaoticone on October 23, 2006, 08:55:12 AM
I watched the video. Yes Mach 3 can control the axis to duplicate these motions. You will have to generate the G-code. I think Mach has a code generating program called Lazycam that you could use for this. ( I'm not sure, I haven't had time to try it yet.) I use Artcam. You may want to look at it also. I think it would be right up your alley. You can download Mach and simulate a run without the machine. The free download will run 1000 lines of code before lockout. I may be wrong, but to simulate I think you will have to install drivers also. If you don't already have a dedicated PC for this, back up your whole system first. I think Mach takes almost complete control when it comes up. This can do funny things.
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: Hood on October 23, 2006, 12:06:41 PM
As Chaoticone has said you can run Mach without a machine connected. I have Mach on three computers, one is hooked up to my mill the other two I just use for testing purposes. You dont even need to set anything up apart from maybe the estop setting in" ports and pins",you may have to change the active low setting if you keep getting the flashing reset button and cant stop it flashing. You can leave all the other settings as standard or you can set up motor tuning etc to give simulated speeds that you think you will have on the real machine. You can then test to your hearts content :)
 BTW from what I see on the video that will be a piece of cake for Mach, just give it the code and it will control your motors.
Hood
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: Hood on October 23, 2006, 12:09:58 PM
BTW Mach does take good control of the system and although it is best to have it on a dedicated machine for control I have done all sorts of things like CAD, CAM, Image editing etc while Mach was actually running my mill. This is not really advisable but I was just testing things out and it behaved beautifully :D
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: GEORGETOUBALIS on October 23, 2006, 01:11:16 PM
Here in Greece often we said that " the difficult is to start up with something but when I start up nobody stop me"
I use Computers for the last 15 years and i m an expert in my job. that is becouse Before many year i didnot afraid to ask even silly thinks.... Of course I was lucky becouse I learn from experts and people who did not have any problem to give me a help in my first steps.

All I want to say is that (sorry but my English dont help me)

I will ask you a lot of thing that I dont Understand  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

For examble....

1) Can we stop the motion of the Z axis when it is down and then give motion to the 4th motor (which opens & close my Valve) for specific time. Lets say 1.5 Sec This is the time I need to open the valve drop 0.5ml and close the valve)??? ??? ??? ???


2) I will buy 4 600oz servo motors . The 600 Oz power is enough to move the Z head (With my valve is about 10-15 kgr).

3) If I give you very small patern of decals  this

(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5224/exambletf8.jpg)

I want to Go to center of every Decal

Z down
open the valve ( lets say that the valve opens R3.25 and close R0)
Close the Valve
and then the Z go to 3cm up
And then move to next decal...

If I see A code once i really I understund a lot of the G code logic.

If I ask A lot tell me and I stop.!

And A tip from me to you (;D)  :D :D :D :D
I work In Adobe Illustrator
After some tests I understund that The DXF format isnt right for Mach3 I have to open it from Corel And Save it again. Then the Mach3 can read the DXF file.

Thanx Anyway for your replys.... I really like it...!
George
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: Hood on October 23, 2006, 01:36:48 PM
I think I understand what you are wanting and I am sure MACH can do that. If I understand correct you can use an output to open and close the valve and then all you will need is to control the three motors. All axis in Mach can be controlled at the same time and idependantly of eaxh other.
 You could for example use a solenoid valve on the Z Axis liquid despenser and set it up  as the coolant in Mach, then a M8 in your code would open the valve and a M9 would close it.
 Hope I am understanding you correctly

Hood
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: turmite on October 23, 2006, 02:01:54 PM
There is a code that will pause the machine for a specified amount of time. I think it is M00, but I don't use it so I don't know if that is correct or not. This type of code will not be a problem for Mach to perform.

Mike
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: Hood on October 23, 2006, 02:20:27 PM
G4 is for dwell (pause) and you can specify the amount of time to dwell by putting a P*** (where *** is the time)
 So as an example if your code was 
G1 Z-3 F100
G4 P3
G1 Z3
 The Z Axis would move to -3 at a speed of 20mm/min then pause at that point for 3 seconds then raise up to Z 3.

If however you were wanting to move the x and Y axis but leave the z in the down posiytion you would not need the dwell line, all you would need to do is move the x and y to your position, lower the z then move the x and y to wherever you  want then raise the z then move on to your next position and repeat.
Hood
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: GEORGETOUBALIS on October 23, 2006, 03:38:45 PM
The Flow Control In my case has a lot of options

Working With Air presure
1)
(http://www.okinternational.com/images/big_photos/TS5420.jpg) 1000$
2)
http://www.efd-inc.com/catalogs/EFD-High-Pressure.PDF

These Valves are very expensive! And I dont know the way to control them.

So the Idea is simple

I take this cheap FLOW CONTROL REGULATORS, METAL VERSION (20-25$)
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9364/7190bpf3.th.gif) (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=7190bpf3.gif)


And Convert to this


(http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9026/7190balo8.th.jpg) (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=7190balo8.jpg)

If I controll the the motor I can control the valve and flow ...

I allready make some tests and works fine.
The problem here  is that In many cases I want to drop Just One Drop and its very difficult to control this open close action with air.
The other problem is that the doming resign has about 15-20min life then is not more a liquid. Imagin the solid resign in the valve of 1rst photo.... ouch!!!!
The FLOW CONTROL REGULATORS is very cheap and I dont care about an accident (somethink like to stop the production for an error etc)

And here is the idea.
Mesure the motor
1000 steps = 2 drops/sec
1500 steps = 3 drops/sec
2000 steps = 5 drop/sec
3000 steps = Continous flow....

Convert the step to move

R1
R2.3
R4.1
Etc
And right this code in the G code programme


And becouse the decals is a patern it is just a copy paste the same move of R.

What do you think???? :D
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: Hood on October 23, 2006, 03:49:03 PM
I am a bit confused by what you are meaning by
"R1
R2.3
R4.1
Etc"

You could set up the valve motor as your A Axis and comand it to move as many steps as you want, so you could move your X Y and Z to above the decal (?) and then lower the Z to the level you want, then you could command the A Axis motor to move 1000 steps (open valve)then back off 1000 steps (close valve) you then move z axis back up and then move X and Y to start of next and repeat.

 The hard part will be testing to find out how many steps you need to dispense the exact amount of liquid you require, but you already know that will be the hard part ;)
Hood
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: GEORGETOUBALIS on October 23, 2006, 03:53:01 PM
And another thing
The dispense technology is most for medical applications and the XYZ tables + software are really very expensive...!

The janome 2500N
50cmX50cm with 5-phase stepping motor (not servo) and Portable Weight 6kg

cost about 14.000 EUROS (with software) (17.550$)


Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: turmite on October 23, 2006, 04:02:00 PM
Hood I told you guys I didn't know if the code was M00!! ;D


GEORGETOUBALIS,

I have a question. Is it necessary to move the z up and down. Lots of wasted motion if it isn't necessary. These little decals are all on the same plane, or at leaset they appear to be, so would it be best to leave the z axis in place and make the application of the resin faster thereby getting more drops before it begins to set???

Mike
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: Hood on October 23, 2006, 04:18:03 PM
turmite
 M0 is program stop so I suppose in a way it is a dwell, but you have no way of controlling it, once its stopped its stopped, unless you press the start button ;) With G4 P** it will pause for as many seconds as you have put after the P and then carry on its merry way :D

GEORGETOUBALIS

Mach will do what you want, all you will have to do is make the machine and work out the amount of steps for dispensing the correct amount of liquid.

Hood
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: GEORGETOUBALIS on October 23, 2006, 04:27:56 PM
The liquid has a medium to high Viscosity and some times if the needle is too close The liquid don't leave it . So the needle goes to the next  decal with liquid on and destroy the work.
The needle has to be about 2-3mm  from the decal when flow the resine and when it is rised has to take a 10mm safe distance to move to the next.
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: Hood on October 23, 2006, 04:46:01 PM
Easily done and with a fast rapid speed you should get with a servo machine you will be able to fly around the decals ;)
 I have no experience of using more than three axis but think probably code something like this would do what you want.
G0 X0 Y0 Z0    (move X Y and Z axis to 0,0,0 at machine rapid)
G0 Z-7            (move Z to -7 at rapid)
G0 A?             (Open valve, This will be the amount of pulses you need to open the valve)
G0 A0             (close valve)
G0 Z0             (Rapid Z back to 0)
 Then on to the next position and repeat.

Hood
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: GEORGETOUBALIS on October 23, 2006, 05:28:28 PM
Thanks Hood...! I will test it as soon as I can.

I feel so alone to this project since my friends (graphic artists) has permanent war with hardware....
Do you bother to share with you (all of you) my process in the machine (with photos) and the G code of course...! :D :D :D ;)
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: Chaoticone on October 23, 2006, 05:42:23 PM
Don't feel alone. This group of guys will get you through it. ;) You'll love Mach. Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: sshneider on October 23, 2006, 10:28:45 PM
George, you said you are using a plural component Urethane or Epoxy resin.  Don't you have to introduce 2 components and mix them to get a reaction?  This would me 2 valves and some kind of a mixing/impingement  chamber.  Does the dispense valve device you showed us do this?  Have you thought about how you are going to flush out the dispenser after your shots?

Personally, I don't see how a stepper motor is going to be anywhay fast enough to control a couple of drops of dispensed resin.  Pnuematically actuated valves (as Hood suggested) is definitely the way to go. 

If it where me, I would do what Hood suggested, use the M7 or M8 command to trigger a shot timer (you can set it for fractions of a second) that will dispense the correct amount of resin.  This IMHO, would be much more controlable.

Just my $.02

Sid
Title: Re: Different use of Mach3
Post by: GEORGETOUBALIS on October 24, 2006, 02:02:11 AM
Quote
sshneider
This would me 2 valves and some kind of a mixing/impingement  chamber.  Does the dispense valve device you showed us do this?
Personally, I don't see how a stepper motor is going to be anywhay fast enough to control a couple of drops of dispensed resin.  Pnuematically actuated valves (as Hood suggested) is definitely the way to go.

I made a dosometric system for this. I push a button and mix 200ml,  throw it in a tank. the mixed Urethane resine is under presure 1 - 1.5 bar and this Urethane resine has to only one way out The valve. When the  100ml goes to 20ml I push a butoon & I mix another  200ml.

When you have to drop a very small drops like 1/10ml or 1/20 mil the Pnuematically actuated valves is not very percise.

I Will shot the system and I will come back with photos to see.... :D :D :D :D