Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => Mach Screens => CVI MachStdMill (MSM) => Topic started by: japrenticeuk on August 10, 2010, 06:15:20 AM

Title: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: japrenticeuk on August 10, 2010, 06:15:20 AM
This feels like a dumb question but a lot of searching has not worked for me.

Beta 3 and Beta 4 require uninstalling of earlier versions. How is one supposed to do this.

I have looked for options in the installer program and eventually resorted to searching for all files with MSM and MachStd in their names and deleting them.

Still the Beta 4 installer tells me I have an old version installed and I must uninstall it.  How?


John Prentice
Title: Re: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: Fastest1 on August 10, 2010, 07:54:54 AM
Go to "Start", then "Control Panel", then "Programs", then "uninstall". MSM will be listed there, select it and uninstall it. It should remove all related files. Good Luck
Title: Re: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: japrenticeuk on August 10, 2010, 09:28:54 AM
Thank you - never thought to look there as I was hung up with MSM not being a "Program"

John Prentice
Title: Re: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: DaveCVI on August 10, 2010, 11:25:50 AM
MSM installs a start menu group and within the group there is an uninstall icon -
start - all programs - MachStdMill - uninstall
just click it and MSM uninstalls.

Note for Beta 4, the location of of the MSM start menu changed to be under mach's program group (Seemed like a more natural place for people to look for it) - so it will be
start - all programs - Mach3 - MachStdMill - uninstall
from Beta 4 forward.

Also, as an alternative, MSM is also listed in the control panel's add/remove programs app.

Title: Re: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: raptor on April 27, 2013, 08:12:41 PM
i am posting her because its the only place it has been listed, been covered, comes up in any search engine, it would be nice if it actually did UN install. i have down loaded this just to try, its listed as being able to "try", it seems neat, but for me its full of flaws, not fully functional. i followed along here on the forum, m6 start, that works great on my lathe atc causes nothing but crashes. yes i followed every you must do this that and the other. my take on support is "its great, it works, we just program it wrong. on my lathe atc it would work 3 days then hang up on a tool change on the 4th then kick out some abstract standard "MACHSTDMILL******error".,,, try running mach3 normal screen sets by choosing one after you install this screen, you cant now you are reqiuired to get a machstdmill license to even run a licensed version of mach3,,,,,,cuz machstdmill is shutting down, what eats me up is this, i installed it for a week, tested it, didnt like it, uninstalled it exactly as posted here. i still face days when i fire up my lathe, during opening screens i get a dll error, machstdmill licensing errors, and mach closes..this is MONTHS after it has been uninstalled. i tried it, decided cant rely on its twisted ways of being so tied up into every file mach3 runs on. go back to my normal lathe screen and ask for a toold change from my atc and get machstdmill telling me i dont have a correct m6start macro cuz its not looped thru machstdmill masters anymore. wipe out my mach3 folder, reinstall mach3 and still i face error messages from machstdmill, now due to its length of time from my TRIAL, it wants to be licensed? WT****??? my take is this, most tech issues i see from guys who were able to design, build wire, program a lathe atc, who had issues with the way it would behave or not work on a working atc, i saw so many standard answers, my mind see this, hey my program works fine your doing this wrong. lets spend at much time developing a true working unistall, because paid, trial either, or none, this screenset has no right to shut down my licensed verson of mach3, during trial or after! let along MONTHS after its been so called uninstalled.   it was removed from my computer no more than a week after it was installed, that would now have been 7 months ago. a day of messing around trying to get mach3 to work correctly months later its back shutting me down insisting it isnt licensed!. before you tie software so far inside someone elses, that is licensed what gives you the right to shut down a licensed program? sure deactivate your pride and joy. you have taken windows loopholes and issues to a whole new level. until today i had been still thinking maybe its just lathe related, maybe i will try it on my mill, hey its been running trouble free for over two years, not one hiccup. seeing how many issues i had just thinking id check this screen out, then trying to rid my self of it, i wouldnt consider it for free or if i was paid to try it
Title: Re: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: DaveCVI on April 27, 2013, 09:22:19 PM
Ok, I'll start off my saying that I hope posting that helped you to feel better. It sounds as if you have been frustrated for some time - no one finds being frustrated very much fun.

Frankly, to get assistance with MSM, all ya gotta do is ask....    ;)
FYI - The primary way to ask a MSM question is via the MSM support forums at
You can also email the company - our support email address is easily found from our web site.

Now to the business at hand, I see two ways we could go in this conversation:
a) I could try to help you figure out what tech problems you're having and get you to have a nice working, reliable MSM install that works day in and day out like so many other MSM customers enjoy.
b) I can help you to get the system cleaned up so that you are not using MSM at all.

I'm going to concentrate on b) as (given the tone of what you posted) that sounds like what you'd prefer.

Since you claim MSM is saying it is past the trial expiration date, I know that MSM has NOT been uninstalled. Your claim that MSM is both uninstalled AND shutting down Mach is simply, factually incorrect. You may be frustrated, but trust me, software that is not present can't get started and hence can't check an expiration date.  
Since you are getting a dialog box saying that the trial period has expired, then you are starting mach with a profile that is starting MSM (The expiration check is done during MSM initialization, and that can't be run unless MSM is installed).

So step 1 is to uninstall MSM.
To uninstall MSM, simply run the MSM uninstaller - that will remove the MSM software from the PC.

If you want to check Manually that MSM is gone, you can check that these directories are gone:
(all these assume you installed mach and MSM into the default c:\mach3 directory, if you installed to a non-default directory, adjust the paths accordingly)

c:\mach3\CVI Shared Libs\
c:\mach3\Tool Tables\
c:\mach3\WCO Tables\

I can also tell from what you wrote that this may not compete the process for you -  

I suspect that when you installed MSM, you did not make a separate Mach profile for running MSM (as called for in the installation instructions in the MSM readme file). The documentation calls out that this is a very good idea - in fact it makes it a required step.
Why? Because MSM alters some Mcode macros for any mach profiles used to run MSM.

When you uninstall MSM, the supporting program code for the MSM specific profile macros are now gone. So when you try to run that MSM specific mach profile, you have the left over MSM specific macros, but not the components they rely on - so mach complains when trying to run the macros.

Uninstalling MSM can not magically revert your profile Mcode macros to a pre-MSM use status.
Profile Macros are stored in a mach profile directory.  The MSM installer & uninstaller can't know which profiles you have are for MSM and which profiles are for other uses. If the MSM uninstaller tried to "undo" that by editing those dirs and "restoring" the mcode macros to stock 1024 state, you'd be yelling about how the MSM uninstaller clobbered your profile macros when it uninstalled...

All this is explained in the various MSM docs, and is the motivation for why one runs MSM via a separate profile.
If one follows that installation instructions, then when MSM is uninstalled, you can simply delete the directory for the profile that ran MSM.

Non-MSM profiles are never touched by MSM.
Assuming you have separate profiles, all you need to do after uninstalling MSM is to run mach from one of the older (non-MSM) profiles.

It sounds to me like the profiles were not kept separate. I'd guess that you
1) Used a single profile (hopefully not the only one you had),
2) Converted it to load MSM (which updated the profiles macros to MSM specific versions),
3) uninstalled MSM, and
4) are still using that same profile to try to run mach without MSM.
Simply changing the loaded screenset name used by a profile is NOT the same as uninstalling MSM.  Attempting to do just that will cause the exact problems you "described"...

If you did not keep your profiles separated, you will need to manually restore the Mcode scripts for your profile to the stock mach-1024 versions.

In case you don't know how to do that, here are the steps:
1) Find a profile that has not been used to run MSM.
Profiles are stored in c:\mach3\Macros\<profile name>\
if you want stock 1024 mill macros try <profile name> = Mach3Mill
if you want stock 1024 lathe macros try <profile name> = Mach3Turn
These should be clean macro copies since the MACH documentation and installer also tell users not to run the stock named profiles (as any customization you make to them will get clobbered by the next mach install).

2) select *.m1s from the non-MSM profile directory and copy them to
c:\mach3\Mcaros\<the profile name that you want to convert back to using stock 1024 macros>

Note: if you have used every profile you have to start MSM, then they will all have MSM versions of the profile macros.
If that is the situation, you will have to reinstall mach to get the mach installer to put mach 1024 stock macros in the default mach profile directories.
If you only have ever used the stock mach profile, you had better copy off that profile's XML before the mach reinstall so that you don't clobber the settings from your one and only profile XML....

I'll also observe that you seem to have concluded that MSM is not for you. That's ok. Sorry you didn't like it.
I agree that you should not purchase an MSM license.

While MSM works great for many, we realize that "one size does not fit all". That's why we offer 30 days free trial use.
Finally, as to your complaint that MSM will not run after the trial period has expired, all I can say is that's pretty much the definition of "trial period"... :o

Title: Re: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: raptor on April 29, 2013, 08:17:44 AM
this was about the answer i expected, again the operator, users are wrong. your sofware, its implementation, installation its twisted programming nature are correct. this works with all forms on windows? if i take your reply, suggest to you, every profile in the mach folder was totally removed, my lathe profile, deleted, created a new one, yes i followed the steps that were outlined on how to install it, if it asked questions, gave a choice during install the reference material was studied. im not saying for all it wont work or isnt good, but for some its obviously not. i have read many people who have had issues making it work with an atc. my m6 macro has worked for years, never missed a tool change, never hung up, infact many here on the the mach forum use that same macro. i followed on this forum and yours every post related to an atc macro call, i followed your answers, infact the day i installed msm i had it working. m6atc could i trust it? did it work flawlessly as before? was it reliable? no, 3 of 10 times i would work, the rest time out, fault error out or do nothing. i read other who said in trial mode expect this. great who wants to try software that they cant test rely on and then spend money on it, when they can read on forums people still have issues making it work. the atc reliability was the main issue i  had. what good is an atc that works, until msm comes along and makes it half as reliable? defeats the main purpose of the atc. why spend hours making msm work with the atc when those hours accumulate to more time then it took to get the turret running in the first place?

as to uninstall whether its this that or the other, your msm anything in the mach folder was deleted, my lathe profile deleted, i made a new one for my lathe, granted right off no issues, weeks later one here or there, then it begins shutting down my mach3 with is paid for licensed, and has been for as many as 8 years. i am not computer illiterate, when i couldnt figure out why the atc wouldnt work, out comes softice, wdasm32, etc only to realize then that id never be able to trust nor rely on msm for any atc. i worked for nestles for many years in maintenance, plc programming included. nothing new to me. you say it cant happen, or it wasnt uninstalled, wasnt installed correctly, had it been assembled, programmed correctly, it wont matter how where it is installed, your UNINSTALLER when used SHOULD follow its own install path that it is suppose to write during the install and COMPLETLEY uninstall EVERYTHING it installed. written correctly it would, thats why installer, and uninstallers are assembled, supplied and used, and why they are suppose to write to the install/uninstall log. to ensure they do. go to this folder remove this that etc, having to go here or there to get to the uninstaller, it may be here, may be there, do this, then look here means clearly it doesnt work, wasnt assembled nor programmed right. had it been when i USED your uninstaller, whether i made this profile, that one, matters not, it would have been gone.

i have a tormach pnc with atc, have you any idea how tormach installs mach? where? if so, why would msm effect that on the same computer? let me tell you it did. that after the lathe was enough, i wiped the hard drive to ENSURE it was gone.

the screen set for my bridgeport style mill uses a screenset i created,  has an atc, my own plugins for modbus comms, atc control and plc, it doesnt hiccup, i tired yours not for myself but for others who i manufacture cnc plasma and router tables for. they wanted it, i tried it on my lathe to evaluate for them. not because i needed it as one person but perhaps a chance for you to get multiple sales from. i had my issues they tried it and had theirs, like me they came to the forum here and on yours. found answers and suggestions given by you, but we all saw the same thing, the end users were wrong. every machine is different, they will be just by nature. we all dont built assemble our machines with the same components, wire them the same, we all dont use the same versions or mach, each version there has its own glitches. we all dont use the same pc's, same OS, features, or comms, so i can understand why different people have different issues. what i dont like is, the reply IT WORKS, you didnt do this, you need to do this, had you done this it would work, i keep asking myself, if it worked today, for 6 hours why at hour 7 did it just stop? why does it take 3 hours of messing with it to get it working again, why do i need to delete my m6, your m6 copy and paste the same originals back in then it works again? why do the first 2 tool changes seem to be on time the 3 takes 1-2 minutes to complete. why would the 6 one come back with the master macro error, my point is my atc macro is proven to work, most people here on mach using a rotating turret are using the same macro, 10 tool changes it worked 10 times, done your way, either its accepted by your master macros or its not, 10 changes right off it worked 10 times, day 2 right out of the gate it worked, 3 tool change it sat there, sat there, then tried to move the turrent backwards. changing nothing but hitting e stop, clearing it, it worked correctly, off running, next tool change, worked, next one, nope done, sat there, then gave me the master marco error. yes people write your forum ask questions get the it works answer, then they go away, poll them, i have asked a few, they dont stop asking cuz they have it running, they stop cuz they gave up, removed it and went another way.........

my last comment, bitch, gripe and i can care less about the install this that or uninstall, YOUR MSM has no right to shut down a licensed version of mach, period!, you dont not own or hold the copyright to mach, and even if you did, it being licensed it has a right to run,, whether i installed your msm correctly in your eyes, or not, whether i uninstalled it correctly or not, it shutting down my licensed copy of mach 3, for any reason is the gripe that got me here. it was not my selected screen set nor control, hadnt been for months, yet i had to dick around waste my time, deal with a customer who was waiting for his part, while your msm wouldnt allow me to run my machine. creating a new profile, didnt work, i expect to see standard answers and reply, the fact remains, built it assemble it, create and uninstaller that works, put it on the one computer to the one machine you really care about the most, install it and uninstall it then use revo or someother program to hunt for any strings left over, make sure it works then release it. and by all means remove the calls to shut down mach3 if its is licensed. at the most it should default back to the 1024 screen. and then who gives a SH** if it is licensed? if its not being called for or used?
poll those who tried it, and dont use it, find them its the biggest gripe, you tried to build your own mach3 within mach3 and makes a headache for anyone who uses mach3 for anything more than a hobby. its a night mare to add things later to the machine, its just suppose to be a simple screenset. a user interface. its built to control
Title: Re: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: raptor on April 29, 2013, 08:35:38 AM

Finally, as to your complaint that MSM will not run after the trial period has expired, all I can say is that's pretty much the definition of "trial period"...

read this carefully!,,,,,i dont care if MSM runs after the trial period!, it hadnt been used for over 7 months, nor did it ever crop up an issue during those 7 months, how long is your trial period?
cuz it expired long before that!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if it had expired, your master marco folder deleted, every MSM anything i could still find in mach3 folder once YOUR uninstaller claimed to have finished,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and 7 months go by no reference no calls no anything from MSM,,,,,,,,great! mint perfect! ,,,,,i can care less it expired. i can care less it wont let me use something that the trial expired on, that has been uninstalled, but again once more, you prove you dont actually read what people ask or write, your fingers are preloaded with the want to type on the keyboard in defense of your programming skills, please read along word for word here!...............................................your expired, uninstalled MSM, that had not bothered me for over 7 months, didnt tell me i cant use your precious non licensed MSM ,,,,,,,,,,,clicking ok on it, or anything in the box, SHUTS DOWN MY MACH3!!, restarting mach3 only to have it say msm is shutting down now, great shut down MSM, but as i say you intent and purpose to was to control mach3, as it was your own, so doesnt MSM cuz when "msm is shutting down", it shuts down my licensed copy of mach3, which is NOT a god damn trial!,,,,,,,,,,and you have no right to shut it down, to hell with your expired msm trial that what trials are for comment,  again flawed programming, your call to shut down MSM shuts down mach3, soi apparently i have to pay you as well as artsoft to run my mach3? yea right,,,,,knew when i wrote that you wouldnt read it, knew what your response would be thats why i wrote it so many times in that one post, you need to go back and actually read the questions in your forum, word for word, then your responses, many times you dont actually address the real question but one you read into, i had NO big gripe hey it didnt work oh well, no biggie, uninstall it, great i messed up and used your ininstaller incorrectly, guess clicking on uninstall, ok, yes wasnt the correct thing to do, had i done as normal and had revo do it for me, 7 months later i wouldnt be here, for the ONE reason i really am.,.,,,,,,,,informing you, asking you why the F your msm shuts down a licensed version of mach cuz your trial expired,,,,,,,but i expected the reply i got, i knew when i saw how tied into mach you had it, your ego trip to get control of mach, as tho it is your own is only proven by the fact you shut it down should your trial expire
Title: Re: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: DaveCVI on April 29, 2013, 02:08:09 PM
I would like to help you.  To do so, we need to alter the course this conversation has taken.  

I respectfully ask that you lower the emotional content of your posts and that you stop accusing Calypso Ventures, Inc. and me personally of having nefarious motivations and of having intentionally written software that disables mach after the MSM software package has been uninstalled. Any such accusations are both false and defamatory.

The tone of your posts make me think you are trying to bait me into entering a flame war style online debate.
I decline to do that as I do not see how that would assist you with any technical issues you may have had.

If you are willing to engage in a 2-way dialog about technical issues, I will continue to offer technical assistance (even though you have clearly stated that you will never be a MSM customer). I am also willing to "hit the reset button with you" and start a fresh interaction as if I had never seen your prior posts.  

However, if, for what ever reasons, we can't find a way to have a productive interaction which focuses on resolving any technical issues you may have experienced, then I do not see how Calypso Ventures, Inc. can be of further assistance to you.

As an effort to help, I will describe how the relevant parts of MSM are constructed.
MSM is implemented via mach's CB scripting facilities.
Anything MSM can do is initiated via mach opening and running a mach script.

The MSM logic to check MSM's trial expiration status is in the MSM init routines.
The MSM init routines are invoked by mach when
a) mach is loading a profile that has MachStdMill.set or MachStdMillLathe.lset as the screen set to load, and

b) mach looks for and runs init scripts (for any screen set) in a location based on the name of the screen set file being loaded, and

c) mach runs the init (ScreenSetLoad) scripts if they are present in the proper location within the Mach directory structure.

To get a notice from MSM that an MSM trial period has expired, mach has to have been started up with an MSM screen set file specified in the mach XML profile, and mach also has to have found the associated scripts in the right place.
I do not know of any way that mach could possibly run scripts that are physically not present on the HDD.

Even if the MSM uninstaller faulted somehow and left ever single MSM related file in the mach dircetory, checking (and deleting manually if need be) the directories I listed in my previous post will make sure the scripts are not present.  I provided the entire MSM directory list set in my prior post. I also said that the dirs listed assumed the default mach3 install dir of c:\mach3\.  If you installed mach and MSM into a non-default directory, just change c:\mach3\ in the list to the directory that you installed into, and are running Mach 3.43.x and MSM from.  

David Bagby
Calypso Ventures, Inc.

Title: Re: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: Unique.Machining on April 29, 2013, 05:01:08 PM

I have been using MSM on my mill and lathe for approx. 2 years. I am also just getting into Mill Turn.

I must honestly admit I too have had my moments of frustration. However in all but one case, where a legit bug existed,
the errors have been mine.

For the record, MSM does does an outstanding job of overcoming some of Mach's shortcomings while adding sophisticated
capabilities e.g. Master Tooling Mode, Probing etc..

Obviously, in order to accomplish this task, MSM must create some of its own routines and modify some of Mach's routines, hence the WARNINGS.

Like the carpenter, measure three times, cut once. For MSM read the instructions three times, do it once.

MOST IMPORTANT: DO NOT USE YOUR EXISTING MACH PROFILE. MAKE A NEW ONE FOR MSM!!!!!!!!. This is strongly stated in the manual.

As MSM makes changes to the profile, it follows that this profile will not work without MSM any more than a Lathe profile will work on the Mill.

PROVIDING you have a seperate MSM profile, starting Mach with your original (non MSM) profile, totally ignores MSM.

I routinely do this to verify that when something goes screwy, it is not MSM related.

Despite any frustrations I may have suffered (my own fault for the most part), I would't operate my machines without MSM.

I simply offers too many advantages.

As to support, I have frequently used the MSM support board and received the answers I required swiftly and accurately and with much expanded explanations.

It is unfortunate that your experience has been so dis-heartening.

Title: Re: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: raptor on April 29, 2013, 05:02:36 PM
great calm

still no right, reason, privilege, authority, to shut down a licensed version of mach.....whether or not your software is intact, unintact, installed, uninstalled, trial or purchased. nor tie up mach in ways that it takes my time or anyones, to either, uninstall mach, use xmlnotepad, open edit directories, blah blah blah to get back to a default screenset should yours ever be tried as a trial, not be uninstalled correctly, which is back to the inefficient installer/uninstaller that was present then, i still have the trial install, tried it today and then uninstall, guess what? it doesnt work correctly, have you fixed it in later releases? most likely. even then back to my big complaint the one you wont address, shutting down mach, making me spend or anyone spend time getting back to a screen set to get mach running. i am sure you made sure the uninstaller works now. but the one constant here is you dont reflect, answer, explain and totally ignore, is how you shut down mach because you werent paid for a screenset, as i said before and you keep proving, you dont read the complaint, dont respond to it, but defend how it works.  i know how windows works, had i wanted, i could have overwritten any call to license it. softice, wdasm32 etc, i could write that out easy i dont care about it, i only care that you have no right to have shut down mach, beyond much beyond this uninstall issue. had i left it intact, didnt pay, time expired, then what? go thru all the time BS, to just get my machine running? i should not even have to uninstall msm to get mach running. your claim it only loads to one profile is inaccurate. at least the version i have.  on my test pc, 19 profiles, i loaded msm on that pc today, load up softice, and watch msm come active the moment  i load any profile. my only concern is once again, take the time to ensure your uninstallers work, are efficient, thoroughly clean every file they install, that they unlock the files they locked from mach it should put the system back like any other uninstaller. and again plain simple and maybe im wrong if someone tries it dont buy it, take another 30 minutes, program it to default back to mach screenset control with a flag saying it is, due to non purchase. doing it the way its done, is wrong period. arent many peole trying mach, yet your software turns a licensed version into a trial. a subhect i have watched as this progressed you have done,
Title: Re: Uninstalling MSM
Post by: Unique.Machining on April 29, 2013, 09:59:07 PM

You stated that MSM kept appearing despite your uninstalling it.

The only logical explanation is that when you open Mach you are using the MSM profile.

I do rembember doing the same thing after de-activating MSM to switch machines.

Out of habit I clicked on the most familiar profile. When I realized my error I simply re-started with Mach's profile.