Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: xray_man on October 20, 2006, 03:04:44 PM
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Hi everyone! I'm a Newbie here with a question about my New Hermes engraver. The Vanguard 3000 is a 3-Axis rotary engraver that has a dedicated controller. I was wondering if anyone reading this has been able to replace the dedicated controller with a CNC controller card that plugs into a PC, running MACH3? The dedicated controller is not CNC, but rather uses font cartridges which limits its versatility. I want to be able to engrave graphics as well as text. Any help would be greatly appreciated. THANKS!
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Does the engraver use steppers for the 3 axis's ?
If so it shouldnt be to hard to get it going.
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Yes, it uses 3 standard steppers. The problem is that the engraving table has a large, multi-pin plug on it that mates with the controller/computer. I was told that there is a card that plugs into a PC that can replace the dedicated controller, but I am not able to locate it anywhere.
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Seems like you can get a 3 axis stepper controller that uses parallel and bypass the controller
that is has now.
But then the Font cartridge thing would be gone.
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I don't care about the font cartridges. Can you point me to cheap CNC controller that will operate off the parallel port?
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Xylotex do a three axis board for $155
http://www.xylotex.com/3axBoard.htm
Teamed with Mach it should do all you want.
Hood
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Hey Hood --- That's PERFECT! THANKS!!!!!!!! ;D
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Just make sure your steppers are compatible.
Hood
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Okay, will do. Thanks again!
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I contacted Xylotex Support via Email and he (Jeff) told me that my Engraver steppers will work with their 3-axis controller, so I went ahead and purchased the controller and a 24V power supply. After I receive the controller I'll have a ton of work wiring up the 3 steppers and 5 limit switches. I'll also need to define an M-code for spindle on/off and wire in a relay. I'll post more comments here as I get more into the project.
If anyone else reading this has experience using MACH with a New Hermes engraver that you converted to CNC from the original dedicated controller, please tell me about it. I'd like to learn from your mistakes and successes! :)
Thanks!
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Look forward to your future posts, I think you will like Mach :D
Hood
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Update: I completely removed the dedicated Vanguard controller and replaced it with a 3-axis Xylotex drive. I am currently in the process of defining all the I/O and setting up the axes parameters. One problem that I ran into was that the Mach3 was seeing Limit Switches made when there were none. I traced the problem to noise from the steppers getting into the limit switch wires. I solved the problem by placing a .047 uF capacitor on each limit switch input to the Xylotex drive board. I mounted the Xylotex drive and the 24V power supply right on the engraver unit frame.
As soon as I have the entire system tuned and working properly, I'll snap a few photos and post them here.
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UPDATE: My project is finished! Please refer to the three photos shown below. MACH3 resides on an older ThinkPad laptop, and connects via the Parallel Port to my 3-Axis Xylotex stepper controller which I mounted on the rear portion of the Engraver chassis. The cooling fan is held in place by a couple of springy metal clamps that I glued to the fan and they grip the controller heatsinks without glue or fasteners (which would void the manufacturer's warranty). I mounted the 24 volt power supply underneath the Engraver chassis. I also added a solid-state relay (you can see it mounted in the bottom photo between the 24 volt power supply and the rotory motor capacitor) which is used to control the rotory motor.
I'm very happy the way this project turned out, and I would be happy to answer questions from anyone else who may be working on a similar type of project.
(http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~mike/Engraver1.jpg)
(http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~mike/Engraver2.jpg)
(http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~mike/Engraver3.jpg)
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Hello,
I just bought a New Hermes Vanguard 3000 with no control. I would like to retro fit like you did. If I bought the Xylotex stepper controller would you share your config file for mach 3 which I have to purchase a copy of as well.
Bill@wulkaninduction.com
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Mind posting something you made with the unit hooked to Mach3? I am curious to see what you are engraving.
Thanks
Dan
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Hello,
I just bought a New Hermes Vanguard 3000 with no control. I would like to retro fit like you did. If I bought the Xylotex stepper controller would you share your config file for mach 3 which I have to purchase a copy of as well.
Bill@wulkaninduction.com
Sure! Let me know when you are ready for it and I'll Email a copy of my config file.
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Mind posting something you made with the unit hooked to Mach3? I am curious to see what you are engraving.
Thanks
Dan
You can see a couple of items in the pictures. I bought a bunch of colored aluminum blanks from an Ebay seller. I use a diamond scribe for making name tags and business cards, etc. I recently converted my engraver to a Laser Engraver. I mounted a couple of mirrors on it, along with a focusing lens. I have my 50 Watt CO2 Laser aimed at the mirrors, and it does a great job. My only problem right now is I can not control the Laser power. It's on full power all the time, so the items that I can engrave and cut with it are very limited. I will be working on controlling the power as time permits.
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Hello agian,
I ordered the Xylotek 4 axis controller beacuse I might want a dedicated axis for rotation under spindle.
I guess to engrave pencils, anyways I am very interested in your laser project. Did you build from kit?
Finally, do you know where I can purchase cutters for the Vanguard 3000.
Thanks for all your posts they are very informative, I will let you know when I am ready for your config file.
bill@wulkaninduction.com
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Hello agian,
I am very interested in your laser project. Did you build from kit?
Finally, do you know where I can purchase cutters for the Vanguard 3000.
I bought the 50 Watt Laser tube from an Ebay seller. I built the power supply myself from scavenged X-ray parts, and a capacitor that I bought on Ebay. It looks like a Frankenstein setup, but it works! When I use the Laser, I do not use any Z-axis moves, but rather I use M3 and M5 (Spindle ON/OFF) as my Laser ON/OFF control signal. Later, when we are corresponding via Email, I'll attach some pictures of my Laser system.
Regards,
Mike "xray_man"
If you want to contact me directly, my Email address is: mike at amerytel dot net (I spelled out my address to fool the Spammer programs that seek out Email addresses on bulletin boards).
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Hello xray man,
In reference to retrofit Vanguard 3000
My Xylotek board should be here today or tommorow and I just looked at one of the plugs for the servo and it has 10 wires. They are a Crouzet 5.4 volt 1.8 step. 89904071
I assumed this was an open loop system. Can you help me with wire info for motors, please.
Thanks,
wulkan
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Hello xray man,
Can you help me with wire info for motors, please.
Thanks,
wulkan
CONTACT ME THROUGH MY EMAIL ADDRESS SHOWN IN MY PREVIOUS POST.
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Mike,
Nice looking little machine! I think you are going to like the CV of Mach on the machine :) it shoudl go a bit faster then it did in the past!
Thanks for the pics (looking forward to the video ;) )
Brian
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Mike,
Nice looking little machine! I think you are going to like the CV of Mach on the machine :) it shoudl go a bit faster then it did in the past!
Thanks for the pics (looking forward to the video ;) )
Brian
Thanks Brian! Actually, I never did run the engraver with the original dedicated controller. It wasn't working, so I immediately disposed of it and added the Xylotex driver and Mach3. I was experiencing some mis-stepping with the old (slow) laptop, so I replaced it with a much faster one, and now the mis-steps are history!
So, you want to see a video?! I'll consider it. ;)
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A few people have Emailed me asking for my Mach3 setup (.xml) file, so I'm posting a link to it here that you can download:
http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~mike/Mach3Mill.xml
Keep in mind that the setup parameters will need to be tweaked, because your system will likely be wired differently, and your motors may need to be tuned differently, but this will at least get you in the ballpark.
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Xray,
Well this is a very late posting on this subject, but here goes. I recently got a New Hermes 3400 engraver, free!! I ended up using parts of the original controller, the motor driver board and the power supply. Everything else in the EP controller was deleted.
I had to hand trace the motor driver board and develop a schematic, then rewired it to accept the parallel port inputs from Mach3.
Very cheap conversion, I am running upwards of 250 ipm.
Arnie
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Xray,
Well this is a very late posting on this subject, but here goes. I recently got a New Hermes 3400 engraver, free!! I ended up using parts of the original controller, the motor driver board and the power supply. Everything else in the EP controller was deleted.
I had to hand trace the motor driver board and develop a schematic, then rewired it to accept the parallel port inputs from Mach3.
Very cheap conversion, I am running upwards of 250 ipm.
Arnie
Hi Arnie,
Congratulations on getting that free engraver! That doesn't happen very often! I hope that you got it working well with the Mach 3 software. Are you up and running now, or are you still in the process of putting it together? Let me know if I could be of any help to you. It's been quite a while since I've done any engraving because of other personal and professional commitments, but I still have my machine and I still use it occasionally.
Good job!
Mike
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Mike,
Yes it is up and running. The only thing left to do is figure out the limit switch wiring.
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The limit switches can be a little tricky because some of them can also be configured as HOME switches. That's how I configured mine. Also, you may get some stepper servo noise into the limit switch inputs which can cause erratic operation. I solved that problem by placing a capacitor across each digital input to Ground.
After getting all the functions to work (motors and limit switches) you can then have some fun tweaking the system for maximum performance. I did that by engraving some basic shapes (squares and lines) on a piece of scrap, then playing with the motor tuning parameters and running the shapes again. Try to get the fastest possible speed without distorted lines and squares caused by overshoot and mis-stepping. Also keep in mind that your computer makes a huge difference on the performance of the system. The faster your processor is, the less likely that it will cause erratic problems with the servo system.
Have Fun!!!
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Hey XrayMan,
I have a Vanguard 3400. Tossed the EP, bought a iso board and added Mach3 with an XP comp.
Everything seems fine exxcept I missing steps in all 3 axis over longish runs. Any thoughts? Could The steppers be bad? Or maybe the set-up is not quite right. Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Thanks,
SpicySkier.
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Hey XrayMan,
I have a Vanguard 3400. Tossed the EP, bought a iso board and added Mach3 with an XP comp.
Everything seems fine exxcept I missing steps in all 3 axis over longish runs. Any thoughts? Could The steppers be bad? Or maybe the set-up is not quite right. Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Thanks,
SpicySkier.
Hi Spicy,
Sounds to me like something is over-heating, possibly your stepper driver board.
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XrayMan,
I did the same thing. Did you reuse the driver board? If so, where did you input the step and direction signals?
Jumper across the opto isolator chips, that will cure you problem.
Arnie
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Xray Do any of you do this upgrade for us as I am not that good with circuit boards. I purchased a vanguard 3000 on ebay and would like to upgradeit if possible
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I do this upgrade, email me at aminear@wyomingwireless.com for more info.
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Xray Do any of you do this upgrade for us as I am not that good with circuit boards. I purchased a vanguard 3000 on ebay and would like to upgradeit if possible
Hi petlover - No, I only did the one for myself, and I do not have the time to work on another one for someone else. Maybe you could find an experienced electronics technician in your area who could do the mods for you by following my descriptions and photos. I may be available at times to answer technical questions, but because of my hectic work and personal schedules, I have very little free time.
Best of luck to you!
Mike (aka, Xray Man)
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Thanks xray I am goiing to contact zarzul I haven't eveb gotten the engraver yet it is still enrout I appriciate all of your input. I was told that the controller that it came with still works but it willbe nice to up grade so I don't have to worry about it. IU am going to use it primarily to make I D tags for employees and for plant Idetification I own a garden center and we have a lot of display gardens that I wantto label alll the plants in. Thanks again ffor the input
Gary
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The engraver came today and it appears to be in working order. But it has no manual so I'm not sure what commands are used to control it. I played with it alittle and can get it to go into the progam but can't get it to let me imput any numbers. So if anyone hase a manual for a vanguard 3000 that I could copy I would pay for it. Thanks Gary
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The engraver came today and it appears to be in working order. But it has no manual so I'm not sure what commands are used to control it. I played with it alittle and can get it to go into the progam but can't get it to let me imput any numbers. So if anyone hase a manual for a vanguard 3000 that I could copy I would pay for it. Thanks Gary
Keep in mind that the converted engraver with the Mach-3 software will operate MUCH differently from the original New Hermes controller. I'm not so sure that everyone who is interested in making the conversion understands this. The original New Hermes controller uses "Font Cartridges", and you create engraved items by selecting text characters, and their desired size and position, etc. The Mach-3 is a CNC controller, which means that you create text and graphic images with motion commands (G-codes) for each and every x/y/z move of the stylus. Therefore, if you have no experience with CNC machines and CNC programming, then you will have a learning curve, which will be frustrating at first, and may seem too confusing and complex for many people to grasp. So, my point is, even though you acquire all the parts and assemble them correctly, you won't be able to engrave anything until you've learned at least the basics of CNC. It's not too difficult to learn for most technically-minded people, but it will take some time in order to become proficient at it. There are plenty of CNC resources on the web, including THIS excellent website.
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Many people have Emailed me asking for specific details about how my steppers are wired, and how my limit switches are set up. So, I am posting this information for all readers to refer to. Keep in mind that this is how I wired MY system. Someone else may have different motors with different wire colors, etc.
I suggest you go to the Xylotex website and click on the tab labeled "Data Sheets & App Notes". You will find a lot of detailed information for the stepper driver board and power supply requirements. Here is a link to the 3-axis driver board that I used: http://www.xylotex.com/3axBoard.htm
Here are some wiring details from my own personal notes. It is how I wired my engraver for the motors and limit switches....
Motor wire colors (These are the original steppers on my New Hermes engraver):
Note: where two colors are shown, the color to the left of the slash is the main solid color, and the color(s) to the
right of the slash is the colored stripe(s)
X axis: A=white/orange A#=white/yellow B=white/grey B#=white/black
Y axis: A=brown A#=orange B=white/blue B#=white/red
Z axis: A=blue A#=white/red/black B=red B#=white/red
Limit/Home switch inputs to Xylotex board digital input terminals:
Note: Due to the limited number of switches on the engraver, some of the digital inputs are used for multiple functions.
+X = pin 11 -X = pin 10 X Home = pin 10
+Y = pin 11 -Y = pin 12 Y Home = pin 12
Z = No limit switches. Z home = pin 13
Spindle ON/OFF signal from Xylotex board to solid-state relay:
Output #1 = pin 14. CNC commands: M03 = Spindle ON, M05 = Spindle OFF
I used a 10 Amp solid-state relay with a 10 to 30 VDC input for turning the Spindle on and off. It's overkill, but that happens
to be one that I had in my spare parts box at the time. I don't recall what the motor is rated at, but I doubt if it draws more than a couple of amps at 120 VAC, and so you could easily use an SSR rated at 5 Amps if that's what you happen to have.
Regards,
Mike
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I have done this conversion with my vanguard 3000 using every thing listed in this forum my engraver works well my my troubles are with mach 3 i watched all tutorial videos and still cant seem to get it right does my limit switches need to be hooked up for mach 3 to work properly? also how do i set coordinates so my machine knows how big of a piece I'm working on?
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xray_man
I was wondering if you still have your font Cartridges and wanted to sell them, I just bought a used vanguard 3000 and don't use it enough to go thru what you did, not that I could figure it out if I wanted to. Thanks
Vern
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HELP ;D
I just got one of these New hermes 3000 engravers, but only the XYZ box that has the router head etc , but no controller box , keyboard etc
is there a way to hook it up to my computer and use Adobe illustrator or something like that ?
I would like to engrave nametags but also CNC some thicker flat parts , or maybe throw a lazer on it.......or ?????
thanks for any help or pointing me in the right direction
thanks
PS.....I would even go for a modern 2014 setup , maybe like a 3D printer might use , it is just sitting here and I would like to get it working
VW