Machsupport Forum

Third party software and hardware support forums. => Galil => Topic started by: BR549 on July 18, 2010, 09:06:22 PM

Title: Mesa card plugin
Post by: BR549 on July 18, 2010, 09:06:22 PM
STEVE any word on the status of the Mesa card plugin?
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on July 18, 2010, 11:37:21 PM
You want to test it?  Let me know what you have.

Steve
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: BR549 on July 27, 2010, 06:54:08 PM
HIYA Steve, at the moment I don't have any extra mesa stuff except for the emc2 machines we run. I did not see any need to invest in hardware IF there was no plugin (;-).

can you give me an update on where the plugin is function wise?

(;-)
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on July 30, 2010, 01:54:22 AM
It should have most of the functionality of the Galil plugin.  It moves motors, hits the numbers, etc...  It just hasn't been properly tested on a real machine.  

I am building a small mill to test it on, but life has gotten in the way.  If I had a couple of weeks of free time, I'd be set.  I had a few people lined up to test, but they all fell through.  

Steve
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on July 30, 2010, 05:48:49 AM
Hi Steve,
What particular Mesa cards will it drive?
I have seen the mesa stuff but and unsure what I would need.
SInce I have a machine or two in the wings I may go the Mesa route.

Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: BR549 on July 30, 2010, 05:27:27 PM
Steve if you can give us a list of things we need to use it I can start rounding up pieces. I have both a mill and lathe I can use to test. The mesa stuff is rock solid on EMC2
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on July 30, 2010, 08:34:05 PM
The Mesa 5i20 PCI card works well.  It will handle 3 daughter boards.  Use a 7i33TA PWM -> Analog board per 4 axes.  And a 7i37TA for 8 outputs and 16 inputs.  If you only need 4 axes, then you can add another 7i37TA for more I/O.

The 7i43 also works using the USB interface. It will only handle 2 daughter boards so it's a 4 axis only type of deal.

The main problem with the plugin at the moment is that it's a pain to install.  You have to shoe horn a driver or two on.  So a proper "setup" program needs to be done.  I have one that works on my machine, but it's a developer machine.  Installing it on a box stock OS always leads to an adventure.  :(  But once installed, the plugin will drive motors quite well.  Rigid tapping and everything, in theory... 

And another thing...  This is a servo only deal.  No stepper interface.  So you HAVE to know how to set up the PID values.

Steve
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on July 30, 2010, 10:02:12 PM
Hi Smurph.

So I can use a 7I43U for $89 and a 7i37TA for $79 and have a real nice motion control setup??

 The only real question is that the Mesa site says the outputs are 48vdc???
I like the 4-24vdc input.

Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on July 30, 2010, 11:11:54 PM
Yeah.  Pretty insane, isn't it?  :)  I must say, they are pretty neat little devices.  Well thought out.  Peter (@ mesa) has some more real cool stuff coming in the not too distant future as well.

The outputs will handle UP TO 48v DC at 1A.  You supply the voltage.  So if you are supplying 24v, then that is what they will use. 

Steve
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on July 31, 2010, 06:18:51 AM
It is pretty cool actually.
Is there going to be a possibility of stepper outputs in the future?

I will take a hard look at the funds today and see if I can't order something.
If I use an analog input VFD does that eat up a motion axis?
Not that it is a big problem but I want to make sure that it does what I need it to do.

I think that this in the long run this will be much better than looking for used and inexpensive galil stuff on ebay.

Even with the 5I20 the price would be under $500 for 8 axis and the I/O.
For extended I/O there are many other options if need be.
Do you have a complete list of the Mesa products that work with the plugin?

 There are so many cool things on the Mesa site that it is confusing.
While I don't want to overspend I would hate to try and save a few bucks and then miss out on what I should have purchased.

Will this work with all of the OS's that Mach3 will run on or is it a XP only kind of thing?
Do the encoders read back into Mach3 like they do on the galil and dspmc?

Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on July 31, 2010, 09:07:37 PM
The SoftDMC firmware does not support steppers, so this is a servo only deal.  Besides, there are plenty of great options for steppers already out there.

An analog VFD spindle would use an axis.

There is no such thing as inexpensive Galil controllers on eBay.  Those days are long gone.  People saw them selling and started jacking the price up.  Now there are auctions that start the bidding for a DMC-1040 ISA (useless to us) at $250.00 !!!  And one guy wants ~2600.00 for a 2 axis DMC-2100 controller!!!  

5i20, 5i23, and 7i43 via USB.  These are the cards I have.  And it one point, I had tested them all.  The 5i22 is in the works as soon as there is a SoftDMC for it from Mesa.  It may already have one by now.  I guess I need to talk to Peter to find out.

I know that it runs on XP, as that is what I developed it on.  But it should work on any 32bit system that Mach runs on.

The encoders will read back to Mach.  It's functionally equivalent to the Galil plugin.  I don't know about the dspmc, as I have never run one.

Steve
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on August 01, 2010, 06:07:51 AM
Hi Smurph,
The only reason that I ask about steppers is that I have a stepper driven rotary table that works great.
I really didn't want to change it over to a servo. I was hoping for a mixed mode sort of thing but it is not a real problem.

To save an axis would it be possible to use it with a Modbus spindle or other option? As long as I don't need rigid tapping or single point threading.

I know what you mean about the ebay prices!

The 5i22 would allow for 2 axis cards and 2 I/O cards so that would be really sweet.

Thanks for the info, I will see what I can order. I could always use the 5i20 or 23 and upgrade to the 22 when it is working if I need all the I/O.

Since the first one will go on the lathe I am leaning towards the 7I43-U-4 Anything I/O USB/parallel 400K FPGA - 48 I/O plus 1 of the 7i37TA and a 7i33TA
It should be under $300 including shipping. Looks like I will have to sell something to pay for it but it will be worth it.

I have Win2k  XP,Vista and Win7 so I should be able to get it to work on something.

The DSPMC reads the encoders back into Mach3 also.

Thanks for the info.

You can either PM me and send me the files I will need or wait until the stuff comes in and I will contact you.

Mike

Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on August 01, 2010, 03:23:45 PM
Hey Smurph, is there an option for analog inputs which are great for spindle speed overide and feedrate overide???
I just emailed for a total price including shipping.

Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on August 01, 2010, 10:02:29 PM
No analog inputs.  :(  There is an analog board that Mesa sells, but there is nothing in the SoftDMC firmware to support them.  I'm sure Peter could do up some special firmware.  Or, all of the source is there in VDHL, so a person could roll their own if they wanted to.  The sky is the limit with the Mesa FPGA stuff.  It's just that knowledge of programming FPGA firmware is needed.  But one could throw in a cheap modbus device and accomplish the same thing. 

The deal is that you will not get closed loop servo control at a better price.  Even if you have to do other things with other devices, it is still the best thing going.

Steve
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on August 02, 2010, 05:48:09 AM
Hi SMurph,
Thanks for the info,
I will go with the basics first and then see if I need the fancy stuff.
Hopefully I will hear from them today and be able to place my order.


Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on August 03, 2010, 06:39:13 PM
Hi Steve,
One other question before I order.
Will the 7I48 6 channel work instead of the 7133TA??

For the few dollars extra if I need to move this to a mill I could.

The 8 axis looks real cool with all the analog I/O but that is a lot more cash and I understand that it would be a lot more work for the plugin.

Next machine perhaps.

Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on August 04, 2010, 05:05:34 AM
No.  The SoftDMC firmware doesn't support the 6 or 8 channel daughter cards.  Again, Peter may be able to make a special FW, but the standard FW is what I wrote the plugin for.

Steve
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on August 04, 2010, 05:34:41 AM
Hi Steve,
Just being gready i guess.
Thanks for the info.

Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: BR549 on August 05, 2010, 12:58:45 PM
(;-)
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on August 11, 2010, 07:33:01 PM
Hi Steve,
I placed my order today for the 7I43H, the 7I33TA-ROHS, and the 7I37TA-ROHS.
They should be here in a few days.
Please let me know how to get the plugin for testing and the needed drivers.

I am really looking forward to testing this as I have a bunch of analog servo drives and nothing to drive them with.

Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on August 11, 2010, 09:16:00 PM
PM me with your email address
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on August 14, 2010, 01:40:43 PM
Here is where we are so far.
Ordered stuff late Wednesday, It all arrived today.

Lily was great to speak with and got the order right out.

Boards are smaller than I was expecting but that is a good thing.

The only problem I have is what do I use to connect the 3 boards together?

I have some 50 pin HD connectors which I think will work.

Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on August 14, 2010, 02:51:56 PM
Yeah, just 50 pin IDC old school SCSI ribbon cable.

http://www.mcpb.com/html/cin.sc50c.1x1.html

Steve
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on August 14, 2010, 03:12:38 PM
I got some work to finishh today and maybe tomorrowI can do some work with it.


Getting more excited all the time.

Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on August 15, 2010, 08:48:08 AM
I managed to sneak in some time last night.
The install was pretty easy. The driver was a little more difficult but nothing too tough.

I have basic communication between the board and my laptop.
The plugiin configuration page looks good and should make the rest of the setup straight forward.

More updates to follow.

Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: TOTALLYRC on August 22, 2010, 06:34:39 PM
More progress today.
I have the boards mounted and I was able to get the analog signal checked out for the VFD with a volt meter.
All in all it is working well and I am in contact with smurph to iron out any bugs that may appear.

More updates to follow.

Mike
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: vrsculptor on October 05, 2010, 01:53:30 PM
I'm a long time Mach3 user and was communicating with Mike Walace about using my 7i43 to act as a step direction to PWM converter to run a high power servo amp. He suggested I look here. I have a 7i43, SCSI cables and breakout panels, Jon Elson's high current PWM AMP, servo motor and power supply that I was going to use to test this concept. This solution is much more elegant. I would be happy to help you test but I don't have it connected to my mill which is currently running 3 G320's. I'll lurk and volunteer if I see an opportunity to help. I really need 160 volts @ 20 Amp's to run my mill properly.

Roger
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: mataf01 on November 15, 2010, 04:53:51 PM
Hello,
I'm on the way to retrofit an old milling center I would like to use mesa 5i20 cards but as I will end with 4 axis, a 21 tools rotary tool changer + the spindle speed an direction and many other IO's,
one 5i20 card will not be enough.
EMC is able to drive more than one 5i20 card. Is it possible to drive more than one 5i20 card with mach3 too?
Thanks
Patrick
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on November 15, 2010, 06:28:59 PM
EMC uses the HostMot FPGA config where EMC handles all of the trajectory control and thus is capable of spreading the work across multiple contollers.  We use the SoftDMC FPGA config where trajectory planning is done by Mach but the control is done on the Mesa card.  So adding axes by adding multiple controllers is not possible.  However, you can use one Mesa card for axes and another Mesa card for I/O.  (I wrote an I/O plugin as well)  Also, there is the 96bit 5I22 (8 axes and 48 bits of I/O) if that might be enough.

With the 5i20, you could do 8 axes and 24 bits of I/O with the motion plugin.  Then you could add another 5i20 for another 72 bits of I/O with the I/O plugin.

The Mesa motion plugin is not tested yet, so it's not ready for prime time.  I've been working too much.  :(

Steve
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: mataf01 on November 16, 2010, 06:57:26 AM
Hello, Steve

Thanks for that fast reply.
I will have to see what I will do than.
As all my servo's are driven with +-10v AMC amps and as I'm doing that retrofit as a hobby I would like it not to be too expensive.
I have then two choices:
1) I  go to the mesa and EMC2 (seems very reliable but linux and all the EMC settings scares me a little)
2) I will probably have to choose an other board for mach 3 like the DSPMC but it will be more expensive.
Or do you know of a board that suit the two wolds to try both?
What would be your advice?
Thanks
Patrick
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on November 16, 2010, 11:30:22 AM
The only board that I know of that might work with both is the Mesa.  You can try the plugin, if you want.  It moves motors on my system.  I just have not tried it on a mill where the motors are actually hooked up to something.

Otherwise, the DSPMC and the Galil are good choices that work perfectly with Mach.

Steve

Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: mataf01 on November 16, 2010, 12:14:29 PM
Thank you very much, Steve
Patrick
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: Supersonic on March 11, 2011, 05:35:41 PM
I have an old 4-axis mill with Siemens PMDC servo drives using +/-10V input. What do I need from the Mesa stable, to drive the 4-axes and about 50 odd I/O with Mach3?
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: macro878 on October 27, 2013, 11:52:36 AM
I am starting a new mill project and looking for a Mesa card plugin. Where can I find it?

Thanks, Frank
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: smurph on October 27, 2013, 02:12:01 PM
Since I could not support the Mesa plugin (a grand lack of time), I have not released it.  It really needs a good Beta process to perfect it.  Meaning as it sits right now, it probably will have quite a few issues.  As the plugin was designed to run analog servo systems (does not support steppers), I found that most of my time was spent helping people tune their PID values.  And I found myself chasing issues that were not issues with the Mesa plugin (or the Mesa cards) but instead were issues with people not understanding what they were getting into.  Not that I wasn't willing to help them through it, but I simply just don't have the time to do so. 

The Mesa products are really good!  And Mesa deserves to have a plugin that is as good as their products are.  It would not be fair to Mesa to release the plugin and have a bunch of unhappy people that can't get their systems up and running just because I don't have the time to do it.

So in order to make the Mesa plugin a reality, it needs to have a better support structure.  Meaning more more than just me.  It is my hope that some company capable of providing this support will take challenge and make it a reality.  Maybe Newfangled Solutions itself will so this.  But right now, the Mach 4 development is the priority. 

Steve
Title: Re: Mesa card plugin
Post by: macro878 on October 29, 2013, 04:57:14 PM
Oh, that is  not good news. I hope there will be a solution for Mesa in Mach 3/4 in the future. I'll start digging into the LinuxCNC solution for Mesa then.

Thanks, Frank