Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Kubotaman on June 09, 2010, 12:53:35 PM
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Okay let me tell you know first hand I am not a expert on computers!! That said I have a major problem, at least to me. I have a Legacy woodworking machine that is CNC. I have had it run in the past, about a year ago, and have decided to use it again. I went to use it and all 4 stepper motors just stutter! The only thing that has changed since I last used it is the motherboard has been replaced. I have removed and installed Mach 3 a number of times with the same results. I have checked the voltage in the control box and it seems to be within specs, at least by conversation with the manufacturer, Legacy. The stepper motors will run but they seem to be stuttering. All I can say it's as if you watched the second hand on a clock, when it moves it also stops every second. I can't describe it any other way. Movement is quite noisy, all 4 of them, and obviously something is wrong. I am going to replace the parallel port wire to the control box but don't think that is the problem. I am at a loss for anything else to do. I think I now own a expensive flower planter! Legacy has been absolutely no help with solving the problem even though they ship Mach 3 with their product. My computer is as follows. If you recommend something please let me know how to change your recommendations to make it easier on me. Feel free to ask any questions since I have to get this working! Thanks in advance!!!
Processor-AMD Athlon 64X2 Dual Processor 440OT
XP version 2002 with pack 3
2.3 GHZ 1.87 GB of Ram
LPT port set at 0378-037F-say's no conflicts found
Mach 3 Version 2.63
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try this - go to the config menu , open motor tuning , set step pulse to any of these numbers 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 or 9 - save then close mach and then restart mach.
check motor tuning and see if your change stayed set.
bill
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I have tuned the steppers to the recommended numbers numerous times. They will save without problems. Didn't make any difference. Any other suggestions? By the way, I even hooked up a parallel printer to the same port and it printed correctly. >:(
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I suggested you play with the step pulse width and see what happens .when motors act the way you describe it might be in the pulse width.
if i think of something else it will get posted.
bill
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You say to play with the step pulse width. I think you may have something there! I have always felt that I wasn't getting a constant electrical connection. Off and on so to speak but real fast. How do you change the width? If I am incorrect how do you know when it is correct? Can damage be done by being incorrect???
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Have you run the driver test to see what the pulse looks like?
Hood
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If all worked fine before i would think, as you are thinking, it should be working just fine again with your original settings / xml file.
You have changed your motherboard and i am wondering how good the pp signal output is from it. Are you using the original PP card and
graphics card ( the graphics card could be the culprit). Sorry no definitive answer.....
What does the Driver test look like?
RICH
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Okay , as stated earlier, I am no computer guru. Stupid question- How do you test the driver?? I am not that familiar with Mach 3. I also have a Shopbot which is why I seldom use this machine. You have asked about my PP-post processor. I believe I had a intel before. As far as the graphics card I am not sure if that was replaced when the motherboard was. I had the service done, that is why I don't know all your questions. I have forgotten to mention earlier. I have not tried any files to run on this CNC machine this go around. As I stated it worked last year just fine. . All I have done so far is use the arrow keys to move the carriage. That is when I found out something was astray! Would the graphics card have anything to do with the problem even just using the arrow keys? I wouldn't think so but I really don't know.
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Close Mach and then browse to the Mach3 folder, you should then see an icon called DriverTest.exe , double click on that and it should open a window and after a while will start the test. You will see a line running across the window, what does it look like?
Onboard graphics can cause problems with the timing so if your new motherboard has onboard graphics then yes it could be an issue.
Hood
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Hood, I tried the test and when the test is done the graph looks like a lot of up's and down's in spikes close together. What does that mean if anything?
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That is why you are having problems, your port is putting out a bad pulse, the line should be flat with only occasional spikes if any.
Few things you can try, have a look at the optimisation steps, you will find it here http://www.machsupport.com/downloads/XP_Optimization.txt
If you use onboard graphics then possibly using a separate graphics card will help
You could try a PCI parallel Port
None are guaranteed to sort it out though, it will just be a try and see :(
Hood
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Hood, I have a very foolish question. Do I have to have my controller box pluged into the parallel port or not when I run the diagonistic test? Am I not just better off buying a used intel computer to just desiginate to the machine itself instead of fooling with this computer?
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Doesnt matter either way whether the computer is plugged to the controller for the driver test.
You could go and get an older computer and try that but again no guarantees that it will work, it is not an AMD versus Intel thing, I only used AMD and never had a problem.
I will say however that it is much better to have a dedicated computer for your machine rather than using the same computer for all other things.
Hood
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Here is a driver test comparison of two pc's. The Dell / Intel has on-board graphics. The Asus pc is as follows:
- Asus motherboard - M2N68-AM SE2
- 2 GIG Ram
- AMD 64X2 Dual Core Processor 5200+ 2.7 Ghz
- Asus graphics Card - EN9600GSO
- Rosewill PCI pp card - RC302
DELL driver test:
Note the pulses per second, the non straight line , if you move the mouse during the test you will get a lot of spikes.
The output signal from it has ringing ( actualy two signals out of phase as can be seen on an o'scope and the motors
sound like someone is hitting them with a mallet. Max i can run the lathe at is 8 IPM! There is no cure that i have ever
found other than using a SS. I will say that is a great pc for everything else i use it for.
ASUS driver test:
The pulses per second are always near / closer to Kernel speed, straight line no interference from programs, keyboard, mouse
etc. When running Mach the Pulse freq will only vary from the 24996 by +-1 as compared to the Dell which can go down to
14000 and really fluctuate. The pc is cnc dedicated to cnc ( no antivirus, internet, or some of the other crap on the pc). The AMD is
just a different model than yours. The graphics card is certainly not top of the line and the pp card is an el-cheapo!
I can run my lathe at 120 IPM ( that's over 10x compared to the Dell). It just has a nice clean signal going to the drivers.
So when you changed the motherboard you have a very different condition compared to the other pc. I will not recomend
some specific pc, i only report info on mine and you decide for yourself. ;)
The deal i had with the company that did mine was that they..... GUARANTEED ... that a pc would be put together at min cost to me
that would satisfy my need, such that, if any component required to be replaced i would only pay for cost difference of the component
and nothing else ( pays to work with a local outfit!). Had no problems at all out from the first build. :)
Hope this is of value for you,
RICH
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Rich, your poor signal from the Dell is nothing compared to mine. I must have a 100 spikes on the screen after I ran the test! I am now looking for a used unit that will work versus using the same computer on my Shopbot. The machines are in two different locations so wouldn't work that good even if my present machine worked.
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I'm not sure if you guys have something like this in your town, but I regularly purchase computers, monitors, keyboards, etc. from the local state surplus center. It's where all the old stuff that the college tosses out when they upgrade, the city offices do the same, I've even got a couple that came from a bank. While it's not top notch hardware, most of it has been perfect for use with mach3 and my machines. I've paid anywhere from 20$ to $75 for complete systems with video cards, sound cards, cd drives. Sometimes when I see a very common unit, I buy it just to salvage the parts for future builds.
I can say though, avoid these 'mini' computers. Go for the full size desktop PC cases, they're easier to swap parts around in, and I've had better luck with them overall.
EDIT: The place here has a testing station where you can plug in each unit and make sure it works, but once you pay for it, there are no returns.
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i had this stuttering once, and it was a bad earth between the drives and the breakout board.
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Sorry I am not a guru in computers. What is a break out board? Sorry for the stupid questions! I will check all grounds tomorrow. I do thank all of you for your help. Thanks!!!!!!!!
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Most users find that the optimisation steps help, one programme to make sure you DONT have is apples QuickTime, it really screws with the pulse.
A breakout board is what the parallel port connects to, some controls use them others that have all in one drives are sort of drive and breakout combined and some people wire direct from the cable to their drives.
Hood