Machsupport Forum
General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( What you have made with your CNC machine.) => Topic started by: Tweakie.CNC on January 12, 2010, 12:05:04 PM
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Found the .stl for this tiger on the Zone and decided to cut it in teak. It is approx 70mm x 70mm x 30mm and cut with a 2.5mm ballnose in 3 passes - took approx 3 hours total, including the emergency saw to the stock to clear the chuck on the final pass. ;)
Tweakie.
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Looks good Tweakie. :)
Brett
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That's pretty neat Tweakie. You can really tell a difference after you put some finish on it, hugh. Makes it pop right out.
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Looks like your having more fun again and it has an amazing resemblance to someones wife i know. ???
;D RICH
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Very nice TWEAKIE , AND NO , don't look like my wife Rich. Just ask Brett. the tigers better looking. ;D
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;D ;D ;D
Tweakie.
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Incidentally, the toolpath for this tiger was created from an .stl file using 'DeskProto'.
The company is offering a 30 day trial version for download from their site here:- http://www.deskproto.com/
For those who have not seen it - the program is pretty basic (which makes it easy to learn) but incorporates most of the features found in the big boys programs including 4th axis capability.
Not sure if I will purchase it yet though - think I may run a few more 3D files before the 30 days are up.
Tweakie.
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Who's this "Chris Botha" they reference to in the instructional videos??? ;)
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Cool, Tweakie.
As for that new software, until they make 5 and six axis, I'm sticking with cnc toolkit. Or if MasterCam ever dropped their price to something reasonable, I'd get that.
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You might want to look at MeshCAM. Does indexed 4 axis, and it's a LOT less money than DeskProto.
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Who's this "Chris Botha" they reference to in the instructional videos??? Wink
Hey Sam, He seems to have done a runner from the forum lately - missing the excellent pics of his work I am.
Thanks for the tip Gerry - The MeshCam software is indeed a fraction of the price and has a free 30 day trial.
Yea Barry, you are just showing off because you have more axis than I have milling cutters. ;D
Tweakie.
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Yup, I think we all miss Chris. You guys did see his post about why he was going offline for a while didn't you?
Brett
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Just read his last two posts. That really sucks.
Tweakie, if you need more than 30 days with MeshCAM, just let them know, and they'll extend it. Tell him I sent you. :)
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Many thanks Gerry, much appreciated,
I am not planning on installing/running MeshCam until my DP 30 days are up then I can spend more time learning it.
One thing that comes to mind having made this is that the 70 x 70 tiger took 3 hours machine time - whereas a skilled woodcarver could, i think, have made this in considerably less time (and possibly even, done a much better job). Metalworking is probably where the major benefits of 3D CAM prove to be of greater advantage. So may try a metal object with MeshCam and use the mill instead of the router.
Tweakie
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That's true about the skilled woodcarver, however, what we bring with cnc is repeatability. I can tell you that aspect is super important with the projects I have lined up;)
Barry
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One thing that comes to mind having made this is that the 70 x 70 tiger took 3 hours machine time - whereas a skilled woodcarver could, i think, have made this in considerably less time (and possibly even, done a much better job).
You need a faster machine, then. Or, do a roughing pass with a 6mm bit, then do your finish pass. That should cut the time in half.
I did this in about 1-1/2 hours, with a 1/16" bit (1.6mm). It's 6" diameter (150mm) Finish pass was 8% stepover at 155ipm.
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Another benefit is that you can let your CNC do it's thing, and you can work on something else.
Nice Gerry, I like it.
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Yup Gerry, that's a nice one too. Looks good.
Brett
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Those both look really great. I'm going to try out the Meshcam, thanks.
Now I have to go find out what happened to Chris. :(
Oh, yes I had read that, I guess I didn't get the full meaning at the time. :-\
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Excellent work Gerry.
I think a feedrate of 155 ipm would scare the pants off me using a cutter that small. If you can recall what depth of cut and spindle speed did you use please ?.
I managed to take a better photo of my tiger (without the flash this time).
Tweakie.
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It was roughed with a 1/4" bit, leaving about .03"-.05" for the finishing pass. Don't remember for sure. But the stepover was only .005, so it wasn't removing much material. Spindle speed was about 16,000-17,000 (according to the speed dial on the router) . I set it so it didn't make too much noise. :)
The bit was only $6 on Ebay, so not a big deal if it broke. Bought it to see if it would cut wood , and it did quite well. I need to get some more, but the seller doesn't have any more right now. It's a 2 flute with 1/4" l.o.c. I was going to try the tiger, but the chin was taller than the 1/4" cutter length. Maybe I'll try it tomorrow.
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Hello Tweakie
Does you program can modify the stl so it can have less polygons ,i tried to reduce the size of the tiger to 1.187 inch and both times the program said out of memory
if the file could have 30 percent less polygons i think my program could use it.
Marcel
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Here's one I made with Aluminum.
Jeff
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Hi Marcel,
I cannot modify the .stl. I don't even know what program was used to create the .stl it was just downloaded from the Zone.
Hi Jeff,
Absolutely brilliant, so much detail and wonderful finish.
Hi Gerry,
Thanks for the info. I think you should cut a tiger now, just to make up the set. ;D
Tweakie.
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Hey Jeff,
Loads of questions please....
What software did you use to create the toolpath ?
What was the depth of cut and spindle speed and feedrate ?
How long did it take ?
What size is it ?
Many thanks,
Tweakie.
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Hi, thanks.
Tool path was created using Mastercam.
First tool path was with a 5/16 4 flutes end mill, If I remember, depth of cut was about .070" at 25 inches per minute, 8000 RPM. ( Pocket Island Roughing)
Second tool path was with the same 5/16 end mill to rough the tiger head itself, .04 depth of cut at 25 inches per minute (Surface Rough Pocket)
Third tool path was with a 1/4 ball nose, maybe 15000 RPM at 25 inches per minute. (Surface High Speed, Roughing Radial at 1 degree)
Fourth tool path was with 1/8 ball nose, 18000 RPM at 50 inches per minute. (Surface High Speed, Finish Radial at .7 degree)
Last tool path was with a 1/16 ball nose, 24000 RPM, .005 depth of cut and 20 inches per minute. (Surface Finish Shallow)
Has been cut in a 4 X 4 X 1 block, so head is about 3 1/2 X 3 1/2 X 1 inch.
For cutting time, maybe 4 hours.
Do you know who draw this Tiger Head, it is absolutely fantastic.
Jeff
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Marcel, could you use a larger toolpath and then use scaleing in Mach to get the size you want?
Nice Tiger too Jeff.
Brett
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Thanks for all the info Jeff, very much appreciated.
Tweakie.
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hee hee, love it. You guys are all doing great work!
Barry
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Another teak tiger, this time cut across the grain and at a higher federate. Total machine time is now down to 2 hours 5 minutes. Cutting across the grain highlighted the limitations of my spindle front bearing (I know it is due for replacement) which started to resonate at times and put a limit on the maximum federate that could be achieved (800mm).
I did try using MeshCAM but was unable to create the toolpath for this tiger (the .stl file has 1.8 million surfaces) without getting the “not enough memory – try reducing the geometry” error. Not much about this point on the MC forum but it appears that there is a top limit to the specified geometry points / surfaces that MC can accommodate.
Perhaps Gerry of Jeff you could shed some light on this problem please, please.
Tweakie.
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Try with this one, number of triangles has been reduced.
Jeff
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I got the same error when I had a bunch of other programs running, but when I closed them, it worked fine. I have 2 Gigs of ram. It looked like it might be using more than 1 Gig. Also, be sure you're using the latest version of MeshCAM.
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Thanks Jeff,
Thanks Gerry,
Reply's much appreciated.
Tweakie.
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Hi Jeff,
Your reduced triangle .stl (dare I ask how you did it ?) works just fine with MeshCAM so it appears that MC has an upper limit on the size of .stl files which it will handle.
I have only just started looking at 2.5D machining and don't know too much about it yet, particularly creation of original artwork so I am just downloading other peoples .stl's as and when I find them and looking at ways to convert them to toolpaths. One thing I have learn't, however, is not to buy any software until I have tried it first so the quest will continue.
Many thanks for your help.
Tweakie.
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I have done mine with the original size "STL file on Mastercam X4 but it had hard time with such a big file.
For my drawing and programming, I have a pretty good computer, Dual quad core at 3.5 Ghz with 4g of ram and a quadro FX4500 video card.
This computer is dedicated for that purpose only, no other software, no internet.
Mastercam X4 support multi core computer and for the Tiger Head, like I said had some hard time computing the tool path.
My video card was somewhat borderline for this file.
Happy to see that the one I posted with reduced triangles work for you, has been modified with Magic 11.1, nice software.
Jeff
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Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the info.
Three weeks ago I had not even heard of an .stl file, still not sure how they are created - obviously clever people with top of the range computers like yourself.
Intrestingly the demo version of Desk Proto had no trouble at all with the large tiger file and was extremely quick at creating the toolpath.
I have tried MeshCam again with a few other .stl's downloaded from Danny's CNC4free website but it crashed again with stuff over 300000 triangles. Don't think this is the program for me, shame really because it is extremely well priced. I can hear myself saying you only get what you pay for.
I want to try Visual Mill but I think its cost will be way beyond my budget as is MasterCAM (my laser cutting head has already used up most of my 2010 allowance) but I still must try it anyway. It is early days yet but DeskProto is starting to look better and better.
Best regards,
Tweakie.
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STL files have been around for a looooong time. They are notoriously difficult to work with, especially if the resolution is set high. I would not discount Meshcam because of difficulty with stl files. Even the most expensive software can have difficulty with them. Nowadays, there are so many other formats that one should export to besides stl's (my opinion). Most software will import a variety of formats other than stl. Barry should be able to tell about the pro's and cons of stl's, as I'm sure he's pretty familiar with them.
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Hi Jeff,
Your reduced triangle .stl (dare I ask how you did it ?) works just fine with MeshCAM so it appears that MC has an upper limit on the size of .stl files which it will handle.
What are the specs of the PC your using? I'm guessing you don't have enough memory. Memory is very important when working with 3D models, regardless of the application. MeshCAM has no upper limit that I'm aware of. There are a couple guys on the MeshCAM forum (both moderators, and beta testers) that use MeshCAM with huge .stl files, and extremely small stepovers. One does jewelry, and the other makes very small detailed models.
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For my drawing and programming, I have a pretty good computer, Dual quad core at 3.5 Ghz with 4g of ram and a quadro FX4500 video card.
I will probably try to increase memory to 8 Gigabyte some days.
New memory still expensive. my board have only 2 slots for dual channel memory so I have to buy 2 4 gigabyte sticks.
Jeff
Just forgot to say use Windows 7 64 bits
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Hi Gerry,
My PC has 1.5 GB ram which I could increase to 2 GB maximum but as I understand it 32-bit Windows XP can only allocate a maximum of 2 GB of memory to a program. A new PC with Windows 7 and 64-bit OS with greater ram capability may be the way to go but it is still unclear if MeshCAM will support 64-bit operation and then be able to handle larger .stl files.
As I said earlier Jeff's reduced geometry file works just fine with MC and my setup but I do not have the time, suitable software or even the knowledge to reduce the geometry of any .stl file (created by others) I may wish to run.
MeshCAM does have an upper limit to the maximum number of triangles it can handle but the exact limit is unknown - perhaps you could try running MC and the full (1.8 million triangle ) tiger-share file on your computer and see what happens. I think Marcell found this file size a problem also.
The bottom line, I suppose, is DeskProto which has no problems with a 1.8 million file and is the way to go - it is just it's price that is the stumbling block.
Tweakie.
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Update to my previous post ;
I have just replaced one memory card to give me a total of 2GB ram on this computer and now the 1.8 file runs OK with MeshCAM - no problem.
So to correct my statement in the previous post - The limit to the size of file which MC can handle is related to the available ram fitted in the PC and not to the program itself.
My apologies to everyone.
Tweakie.
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MeshCAM does have an upper limit to the maximum number of triangles it can handle but the exact limit is unknown - perhaps you could try running MC and the full (1.8 million triangle ) tiger-share file on your computer and see what happens.
As I said, I did, and it worked fine, if I didn't have other apps using a lot of my memory. The MeshCAM screenshot I posted earlier in this thread is the full size file. When it crashed, I had other apps using close to 1gig of my memory.
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OK, I ran a couple using MeshCAM. Used the original huge file. Scaled in MeshCAM to 3"x3". I had to scale the Z down to fit my board thickness, so I lost some detail.
The wood is called either Goiabao or Guatambu. It's left over flooring from my house. They called it Brazilian maple, but it comes up under both names on different web sites. I tend to think Goiabao is correct, though.
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Nice ones Gerry.
Tweakie.